Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why do even Inheritors feel the need? Subversion discussion.
  • Subject: Why do even Inheritors feel the need? Subversion discussion.
Subject: Why do even Inheritors feel the need? Subversion discussion.

Que Custodiet Ipsos Custodes

--Tea-baggers are funny, it's as if they think they are far more hetero than the people who do it in real life, because they use their e-ballsacks to do it. What a manly victory dance.
~ManBearPig_06~

I've been struggling to understand the mindset of subversive players. Earlier, I matched up with an Inheritor in an objective match. Obviously at this point he has no use of credits, yet he stayed back and tried to hold the objective for the duration. I was very confused, and when I asked, he said it was for us to get kills and credits.

Me and my friends gain no credits, so our only motive for playing a gametype is to play it, rather than trying to get challenges or commendations or w/e, so it is difficult for me to understand people like him who also have no need for credits, yet seem like they are playing for the sole reason of making it look like they're good players by illegitimately increasing their k/d. The only people looking at your k/d are yourself, and people who send you messages after you beat them, in an attempt to feel superior out of anger that they lost, (and people on forums who decide to judge a person's idea's/topic based on their prowess in imaginary battles...), so why do that over playing a gametype you actually want to play?

Halo's known as a game for being a diverse experience, with a variety of game objectives conveniently categorized by matchmaking playlists, to allow you to find your niche, whether you are a competitive bare-bones slayer type of person, or someone who likes capture the flag with armor abilities. If nothing appeals to you, why are you playing it?

I can't think of a single person who would play LAN or custom games with friends, and pick gametypes they weren't legitametly wanting to play just to irritate the people trying to play it by immediately subverting the intention, yet in matchmaking you see it all the time. Stat-padders, griefers, spawn killers (specifically spawn-trappers, and not spawn killing as a tactic), etc. who apparantly have no game on a 360 they legitimately enjoy playing, end up making up little gametype-subverting mini-games with the purpose of ruining the experience of actual players instead of just finding/making a gametype they enjoy in customs, or picking a different 360 title entirely.


Can someone help me understand the thought proccess of these observantly strange individuals? Because I just can't figure them out.

PS. I anticipate a "That's how they enjoy playing the game, who are you to tell someone else how to have fun, etc.". They are not finding a way to enjoy the game, they are subverting actual games in an attempt to selfishly create a new game for themselves to enjoy, by disrupting players playing said actual game. They rely on the fact that even if the gametype is meant for a purpose, they don't have to listen to it, because it's only an automated computer program, not a referee telling them that they can't run around holding the soccer ball in their hands while tackling people.

tl;dr Why do people subvert games instead of finding one they enjoy, whether on Halo or a different title, or even different platform?

[Edited on 05.24.2012 7:22 AM PDT]

  • 05.24.2012 7:20 AM PDT

100% Australian.

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Do you really expect me to read that?

  • 05.24.2012 7:26 AM PDT

Walk by faith. Dude. Not by sight.

Because people suck. Play Skyrim instead.

  • 05.24.2012 7:32 AM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Let me ask you a similar question from the other side: Why do players feel the need to subvert the action of staying alive in a Shooter video game?

I don't understand how it's "fun" for players to constantly rush the objective without clearing the enemies that are obviously holding map control and just repeatedly die. There comes to a certain point when (as a person who regularly performs spawn trapping) you ask yourself, "Why don't they actually try to get map control?"

What is fun about getting 3 kills and getting 40 deaths in one game? What is so appealing about that twirling screen of death? Why don't players (and I use this word with caution) adapt from their mistakes? Do people not understand the main principle of a shooter game is too stay alive?

The only people looking at your k/d are yourself, and people who send you messages after you beat them, in an attempt to feel superior out of anger that they lost.For many people that do this, they're competing with other players for top spots on websites. They're not competing with players that are actually in the same game as them. They want to make a leader-board (back when API tracking was available). They couldn't care less about the experience that they're giving to other players.

After all, isn't the guy that's getting 4 kills and 40 deaths playing the game how they want?

The thing to understand, from someone that always searches with a full team, is why people do what they do. It's simple really. Commendations supports this kind of game behavior. How else are players really going to get those commendations to Onyx? How many players actually play 20,000 games of Reach in a "normal" fashion to get those up? I could only count those players on one hand.

It's not about credits, it's about intent. Players that are Inheritors - or any rank, have accustomed a style of play based on their own past experiences. The unfortunate response that is players that don't do this, question why this happens simply because they haven't had that experience.

grievers
Do you know why grievers do what they do? It's because they don't need to win to rank up. You can thank the credits system for that. Unlike Halo 2/3, you actually had to win games to progress in the ranking system. In Reach, you don't.

They aren't penalized for doing what they do, simply because they're doing nothing wrong. Think of it this way, all you can really do is report a user for unsporting conduct, then what? Nothing happens, they get their credits - hell, possibly even get a jackpot depending on the playlist and it moves on.

I guarantee if there was a progression ranking system in reach based on wins/losses, you wouldn't encounter those players, especially if the true-skill system was visible.

$0.02

[Edited on 05.24.2012 7:59 AM PDT]

  • 05.24.2012 7:54 AM PDT

Que Custodiet Ipsos Custodes

--Tea-baggers are funny, it's as if they think they are far more hetero than the people who do it in real life, because they use their e-ballsacks to do it. What a manly victory dance.
~ManBearPig_06~

I define shooter as any game where you use a projectile weapon, not a game where you try to stay alive. I try to stay alive in Sonic too.

You mention tactics such as map control as if they were subversive to the gametype's intent, instead of a strategy in which you think past a single round towards winning the eventual match. That IS playing the gametype, with intelligence.

Your ranking system causes grievers argument is a bit flawed, as it only accounts for people who play the game solely to rank up. You could invert it and say that it is because competitive ranking is being expected by these players that it occurs, and take it all the way back to leaderboards etc.

Saying that they are doing nothing wrong is false as well. You can't say if they are doing right nor wrong, it is in the opinion of the people they play. And from what you can easily observe, the vast majority of people in games not doing the above mentioned actions seem to react in a negative way towards someone performing said actions.


The simple fact is, they are subverting a gametype to create their own personal gametypes, against the intended purpose and therefore intentionally deny legitimate players what the game promised. That there is no way to regulate disruptive individuals like them does not mean they are being enabled to do so, it means there are limitations on automated detection.

[Edited on 05.24.2012 8:17 AM PDT]

  • 05.24.2012 8:15 AM PDT

tl;dr ranks don't matter

  • 05.24.2012 2:38 PM PDT
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This Soffish do not eat.


Posted by: spawn031

Do you know why grievers do what they do? It's because they don't need to win to rank up. You can thank the credits system for that. Unlike Halo 2/3, you actually had to win games to progress in the ranking system. In Reach, you don't.

They aren't penalized for doing what they do, simply because they're doing nothing wrong. Think of it this way, all you can really do is report a user for unsporting conduct, then what? Nothing happens, they get their credits - hell, possibly even get a jackpot depending on the playlist and it moves on.

I guarantee if there was a progression ranking system in reach based on wins/losses, you wouldn't encounter those players, especially if the true-skill system was visible.

$0.02


That's one of the main things I miss about Halo 3, the fact that more people seemed to be playing the matches to win, not get commendations and credits. Unfortunately, from what I've heard Halo 4 is going a similar direction with 'Spartan points'.

[Edited on 05.24.2012 4:24 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2012 4:24 PM PDT