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Subject: People seem to forget the point of The 7th Column

I guess you can consider this a rant, but the point is to attempt to get people to understand the real reasoning for The 7th Column. If I see anybody flame another member or a group in this thread and completely dismiss the point of the thread, you will be blacklisted. I also don't want to see any excuses for people's behavior; if I see any "this person/this group started it, not me!", expect your post to be edited or deleted.

On to the point of this thread:
I've seen (as I'm sure others have) some disturbing things on these forums as of late. Groups hating other groups and people hating other people (usually because on person is a part of another group than the other person). I actually received a PM this morning from a member (not mentioning who, be he knows who he is) asking if he could put an "anti-group" message in his signature. He basically wanted to point anybody that hated a certain group to join a group that also hates that group. I of course said no, but I had to ask myself: Is the point of The 7th Column getting lost?

The 7th Column is meant to be about community. From The 7th Column FAQ:
Q: What exactly is the 7th Column?

A: The 7th Column is the Official Bungie Fanclub. It's an online destination for our fans to congregate and connect with other fans across the globe. Underneath the surface lives thousands of individual fan sites, all unique, and all owned and operated by members of our community. Think of it as big sand box with lots of toys for you to carve out your own little home on Bungie.net

From The 7th Column about section:
The Column gave our fans a home of their own and would become a great meeting point for players interested in forming clans, finding LAN parties and talking shop about Halo and beyond. The online features of the Column itself were created as a gift for our fans, "to thank them for being so loyal", says Max Hoberman, former Bungie Community Lead (and current Halo 2 Multiplayer Lead). While membership in the Column is free and open to everyone, there is one catch: "We want our 7th Column members to help us take over the world."
I bolded some of the important points. As you see, the forums and group system was set up so we the fans can get together and discuss things that we find interest in. We are all meant to be working as one to help Bungie take over the world. How are they supposed to do that when there is civil wars going on?

I also think that people seem to take these forums/groups a little too seriously. You are a founder/moderator/member of a large group on Bungie.net? Who cares!?! Do you really think it matters in the real world? Hell, I'm a moderator of the main forums and I know it doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the real world; but I do take pride in the fact that I am a member of this community and am supporting Bungie.

People need to grow up and act civil toward their fellow members. Stop acting immature and as if your affiliation with a specific group/forum makes you special in any way that really matters. This site was given to us fans by Bungie as a thank you, why ruin it?

  • 06.07.2006 4:04 AM PDT
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Hear hear.

An excellent point, and eloquently stated.

  • 06.07.2006 4:39 AM PDT

Facts are the enemy of tru7h....

I think one of the problems is that there are a lot of new faces here on B.Net. So there a lot of new members trying to find their niche on the forums. People want their voices heard...in whatever capacity... whether it be asking a random question or flaming someone for asking a random question.

That is not to say that some of the older members are blameless. It seems to me that a lot of the newer members aren't as well versed in the Bungie-verse as older members are. So of course we're going to get a lot of discussions about things that we have already discussed (over and over again), and we're going to get a lot of discussion about the old school games and how they relate to Halo. And of course we're going to see all the silly threads that we've seen time and time again. As more mature members we should welcome these discussions and help the newer members come to appreciate the full coolness of Bungie.... and in the case of pointless and spurious threads try and approach them in a mature and civilised fashion. After all, how the older members approach a thread will have an effect on how the newer member approach future threads... Its the whole nurture verses nature thing...

I guess what I'm saying is 'Why can't we all just get along?'

-Stu

  • 06.07.2006 4:47 AM PDT

group hating? I've got that problem myself. Dunno why some people don't like OFG, which is just a fanfic chapter, but they do. People have been calling it names for really no reason.

But i think that most of this is just from either childish antics or just to make a ruckus. Nobody really knows anyone else on the net (i mean really knows them personally), so they think they can come online and act like -blam!-s constantly to have fun. Of course, there are other people who come online and want to be part of the community, but simply have anger issues or are to self-oriented to work peacefully with the community.

The question is what we can do with it. And that is a hard question. Its like asking how do you shape society to fulfill your needs? All i can say is that with the limited accessibility of bnet and the small amount of time, it won't happen so easily. Either drastic changes will have to occur or people will need to get the poles taken out real fast. In truth, there'll always be a percentage of people like this, but the question is how high of a percentage can we make that?

  • 06.07.2006 6:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: dmbfan09
I of course said no, but I had to ask myself: Is the point of The 7th Column getting lost?
Subliminal message.

Posted by: dmbfan09
I also think that people seem to take these forums/groups a little too seriously. You are a founder/moderator/member of a large group on Bungie.net? Who cares!?! Do you really think it matters in the real world? Hell, I'm a moderator of the main forums and I know it doesn't make a damn bit of difference in the real world; but I do take pride in the fact that I am a member of this community and am supporting Bungie.
You're absolutely right. Which is another reason why I don't understand flaming or the hating. Is it worth arguing with some person you don't even know over some pointless topic? In a year or even a day who's gonna care? It amazes me that some people actually think since it's the internet they can be a jerk if they feel like it. Lately I've been stressed with school and other things, but I don't come here to let my fustrations out on others. I do relieve it, but not in that way.

Posted by: dmbfan09
People need to grow up and act civil toward their fellow members. Stop acting immature and as if your affiliation with a specific group/forum makes you special in any way that really matters. This site was given to us fans by Bungie as a thank you, why ruin it?
Hey, I forgive every member and ninja all the time. No grudges held, I know sometimes I don't say the most appropriate things. Whatever anyone says about me in a negative tone, I really don't take it too personal. But I do care. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and those of other members. Just know I go to sleep every night with a smile on my face.

  • 06.07.2006 6:39 AM PDT

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If I see anybody flame another member or a group in this thread and completely dismiss the point of the thread, you will be blacklisted.

It would be really funny if achronos cam ad did just that to you as a joke.


Very good rant. Now all ya gotta do is add it to your sig... Make it look good thought not just "dmbfan's Rant"

Very good rant.

*Standing ovation*

  • 06.07.2006 6:52 AM PDT

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It had to be said. Unfortunately, dmbfan is right; the Column is certainly not what it once was. I have seen many aspects of the Column, some very disturbing, some damn right insane and yet, thankfully, some fantastic.

I ask you, what is the point in making these petty wars? Why do people try to "take over" chapters and groups? I'll tell you why, because they are immature and bored.

So why, if you're bored, don't you work on making your chapter awesome? Why don't you work together with other chapters in setting up games and discussions? Why not share resources? Why not make the Column great?

Now dmbfan also rightfully pointed out that some take it too seriously, he is perfectly correct of course. However, don't interpret that the wrong way. This does not mean you can go on chapter raids and go spam a load of forums 'because it's fun'.

I for one do not want to sit an watch our beloved Column die, nor will i let it. I suggest we all think about the true nature of the Column. I suggest we remember that this is a gift and we should abuse it and mistreat it no longer.

  • 06.07.2006 7:02 AM PDT
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It's not that I have forgotten, it's that I don't really care that much anymore. I'm not talking about just the groups, or the members, but the 7th column in general and even Bungie.
What started as this great gift, has turned into something that has been put aside and have not been looked at since, it just doesn't seem to be fun anymore. What once was active, it had news, spotlights and groups that were actually fun and unique. The 7th Column was something worth being a member of.

Take the groups we have now, and the group wars. I think one of the reasons that causes this problem, is the fact that chapters no longer are unique. They simply are all look alike. With the old chapters you had so much customize, that every chapter seemed different than another, ever since the "update", that has changed. take two chapters, about ODST's for instance. Created by two different people, different rules, but they still look the same. You can barely tell one from another. So of course rivalry will rise up. Everybody wants to have the best chapter. In the ol' days that wasn't so much a problem, you could tell the difference between chapters and everybody could take it's own path.
I understand that things have to change that features had to be taken away to handle the traffic and such. But it's like giving a little child a 360 as a present, however, the next day you take it away from him but you let him have the controller.

As for the Column in general. It's dead. Sure, Bungie has other things to do, and it can't always be active. But how long has it been since something happened at the 7th column page? almost a year and a half? I haven't looked at it for months, it's not like something actually happens with it. Or the last fan fest? When was that? Two years ago or something? Or sections of this website in general. It seems to be completely neglected. A shame.

Bungie said that they would like to see the 7th Column in control of the fans, but without the right tools, what can we do? We have organized contests, written spotlights, but it feels more like a bunch of stuff spread across the board, rather than an actual "fan club".

If the point of the Column seems to be forgotten, it can be blamed on multiple factors. People being asses, the column being neglected, people aren't sure what to do. Penguins probably are involved too.
I know I may seem a little pissed at Bungie in this post, but I'm not. it's just that once it seemed that if Bungie wanted to communicate with the fans, they would drive to their houses, see how things were going, talk a bit and hang out together. Now it seems they rather pick up the phone to talk with the fans and hang up as quick as possible.
I'm convinced that that isn't Bungie's intention, nor what they are hoping to reach. But it is how it feels at times.

  • 06.07.2006 7:08 AM PDT

Isn't it in human nature to create conflict??

  • 06.07.2006 7:16 AM PDT

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That was an excellent post. I have never flamed any group or individual in the 7th column because there is no reason for it. When it comes down to it, some people need to grow up and take it upon themselves to act more responsibly in the forums.

  • 06.07.2006 7:20 AM PDT
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Then again, the internet wasn't made to -blam!- up other people's computers through virus transfer, but it happens. Just as phones were made for communication with people far away, and not for marketing stupid products.

It happens.
-TGP-

  • 06.07.2006 7:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Then again, the internet wasn't made to -blam!- up other people's computers through virus transfer, but it happens. Just as phones were made for communication with people far away, and not for marketing stupid products.

It happens.
-TGP-
Virus protection programs and "do not call" lists pretty much fix those.

So it can be fixed.

  • 06.07.2006 7:41 AM PDT

The larger and more popular a community becomes, the more this will happen. You can't have world domination and a tight-knit fanbase.

  • 06.07.2006 7:46 AM PDT

Facts are the enemy of tru7h....

Posted by: dmbfan09
Virus protection programs and "do not call" lists pretty much fix those.

So it can be fixed.


Well the blam-filter is one of the methods. But the thing about those other solutions is that there was a specific method of interaction in the first instance. So we can define a virus in various amounts of ways (name, file size, creator etc) and calls can be identified by caller/callee telephone number. But with basic flaming and hatred there is very much a human element which requires human interaction to solve it. I'm afraid the best solution, in my opinion, is for the Mods to be a lot harsher than they are. Because even with an effective screening method for members and posts that can be accomplished by a server, people will always push the system as far as it can go.

-Stu

[Edited on 6/7/2006]

  • 06.07.2006 7:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: RhythmKiller
The larger and more popular a community becomes, the more this will happen.

Even for a large community like this, it happens an awful lot.

  • 06.07.2006 8:11 AM PDT

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Posted by: dmbfan09
Posted by: Great_Pretender
Then again, the internet wasn't made to -blam!- up other people's computers through virus transfer, but it happens. Just as phones were made for communication with people far away, and not for marketing stupid products.

It happens.
-TGP-
Virus protection programs and "do not call" lists pretty much fix those.

So it can be fixed.

Maybe, maybe not. There's absolutely no way that every single user on the forums will get along. There are going to be arguments, rivalries, etc. It's an inevitability.

It can't be totally fixed, but it could be helped if people would learn not to argue back. If someone pisses you off, the best thing to do is just ignore them, not 'flame' back with an equally immature comment. It's not cool, it's not mature, and it just makes things worse.

  • 06.07.2006 9:10 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Not to be an ass about this, but the Largest Group Index seems to be adding fuel to the fire and causing groups to go head to head.

  • 06.07.2006 9:15 AM PDT

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Posted by: dmbfan09
I actually received a PM this morning from a member (not mentioning who, be he knows who he is) asking if he could put an "anti-group" message in his signature. He basically wanted to point anybody that hated a certain group to join a group that also hates that group.
I bet I could guess who that was in one guess.

One thing have to say, you say you think people have lost site of the 7th Column's purpose and that people are taking the biggest group think to seriously, etc., etc. but threads like Community Resource: Largest Groups! Featuring Groups 1-15 with Interviews! have gone unchecked for days. Threads like that shouldn't even be made in the septagon. All that he (threads starter) did was add a few extra things in like interviews but the essence of the thread is still the same its a septagon advertisment for the largest groups and hurts all the smaller group on b.net. If you really want to have a community then you'd keep threads that foster hostility to other groups out of the septagon and even the classifieds. That would make the community a much better place...in my opinion anyways.

  • 06.07.2006 9:29 AM PDT
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I agree with justafan. We just don't have enough seventh column themes or "toys". I was active in the old seveth column because there was ...um more to do. Lots of cool pre-made databases (music review, movie review, q&a...) and good custom database tools. Now all we have is a forum, one or two themes worth using and news. I believe the majority of active users on the seventh column are idiots because the mature members are bored with seventh column. Every chapter looks the same! I miss the custom sidebar hehe.

Also there were lame "civil" wars in the old seventh column too. (ex: alliance vs anti-alliance). I think the best way to deal with these losers is to let them play in their chapters BUT ban them immediately if they bring their -blam!- to the main site. (even if it is just a sig)

Anyway, hopefully we see a seventh column upgrade before halo 3 comes out!

[Edited on 6/7/2006]

  • 06.07.2006 9:56 AM PDT

Well, im going to be blunt.

I love to live my life, go out meet new people, go out with friends, do sport and i also enjoy my time in school learning new things. To come to a place like Bungie.net is a sort of release, you can escape away for a while and just do your own thing, epress views etc. It's something people do out of boredom. As for the chapters, they are just really projects people do to keep themselves occupied, sure a few of them may go on to something bigger on the net. But thats all it is, some small "success" on the net.

  • 06.07.2006 9:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: stosh
Every chapter looks the same! I miss the custom sidebar hehe.


You're so right! And yes! The main page polls!

  • 06.07.2006 10:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: goldhawk
It's something people do out of boredom.

I couldn't agree with that more. The mature members of this Community are bored with it. Petty things, like "group wars" and spam wars are really ruining this wonderful Community. I think we need to appreciate what Bungie has done and grow up, like dmbfan said.

  • 06.07.2006 10:32 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Posted by: Muno
Posted by: goldhawk
It's something people do out of boredom.

I couldn't agree with that more. The mature members of this Community are bored with it. Petty things, like "group wars" and spam wars are really ruining this wonderful Community. I think we need to appreciate what Bungie has done and grow up, like dmbfan said.


Maybe some new updates to keep us busy would be good?

  • 06.07.2006 10:47 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

KOTOR | The WarriorsI'll chain you to the truth for the truth shall set you free
I'll turn the screws of vengeance and bury you with honesty
I'll make all your dreams come to life, then slay them as quickly as they came

Posted by: EAGLES5
Posted by: Muno
Posted by: goldhawk
It's something people do out of boredom.

I couldn't agree with that more. The mature members of this Community are bored with it. Petty things, like "group wars" and spam wars are really ruining this wonderful Community. I think we need to appreciate what Bungie has done and grow up, like dmbfan said.


Maybe some new updates to keep us busy would be good?


Anything to improve our experience with the Community. Anything! Even the little things, like adding one new picture to "The Gallary."

  • 06.07.2006 10:52 AM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

Posted by: Muno
Posted by: EAGLES5
Posted by: Muno
Posted by: goldhawk
It's something people do out of boredom.

I couldn't agree with that more. The mature members of this Community are bored with it. Petty things, like "group wars" and spam wars are really ruining this wonderful Community. I think we need to appreciate what Bungie has done and grow up, like dmbfan said.


Maybe some new updates to keep us busy would be good?


Anything to improve our experience with the Community. Anything! Even the little things, like adding one new picture to "The Gallary."


Even that would mean alot.

Bungie has the power!

Fan owned Contests can only get us so far!

  • 06.07.2006 10:53 AM PDT

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