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Subject: People seem to forget the point of The 7th Column
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Posted by: dmbfan09
Posted by: Senor Leche
I come here to fill my head with Bungie lore and be a Bungie fan but I don't know; it often feels like so many are trying to stand out as individuals around here rather than be a part of a collective mass that enjoys what Bungie does.
Perfect point. Thank you!


True, however you know all the mods names and so do I. They stand out as individuals and so do some posters. Standing out as an individual is nothing compared to deliberately ruining someone elses good time. You want to see a game forum truly ruined by the same people for whom it was created try visiting the worldofwarcraft forums over yonder at blizzard. B.net is a fraternity by comparison. This is praise folks.

  • 06.08.2006 10:05 AM PDT

DID YOU KNOW:

-The world has ended, you're just suffering lag

But the mods and notable others aren't those that he was talking about. Senor Leche was talking about the trash talking filth that come onto these forums and try to look tough and/or cool. Most of them aren't old enough to know what they are talking about, some of bungie's games being older than they are. Alot of the filth that plague us are only familiar with halo games, and abuse the rest of the forums because of it. The Septagon is particularly badly hit, as it the forum where people will get most noticed [or so they feel, having considered themselves part of the community just for signing in]. Not as badly hit as The Underground admittedly, but the mods have to work quite hard to keep it under control. "Old School" games does not mean HALO:CE.

The threadmaker was stating how disappointed he was in how the septagon is treated by people, and how he felt it had gone downhill, and that is the issue here. The World Of Warcraft Forums are an entirely different breed, actively pitting alliance vs. horde, guild vs. guild in an online environment where both factions can communicate. Guilds often have their own forums, much more sophisticated than clans' pages, but lacking the historical features that make the seventh column so special. An example of the is my best friend's clan, the halibuts. They don't have mods, or a filter of any kind because everyone is free to write whatever they wish. They frequently do. I won't link anything because their forum is frankly obscene, but they are content with this, and are at the end of the day, amicable at the very least.
Bungie's Seventh Column, by it's very nature, is more diverse, being bent on world domination rather than a little after dinner WoW raiding. Insults made on b.net are meant seriously, and indecent spam can potentially be viewed by younger members. People come here and hide behind the anonymity of the internet, we all do it, not knowing anyone else's name, whereas at the halibuts forum, they know who you are, what you do for a living, where you live.. everything... and they engage in organised spamming of Blizzard's servers, because Blizzard have encouraged this behaviour through the organisation of their site, allowing faction to agrieve faction, and for grudges to be held.

The seventh column doesn't tolerate stupidity, that's why the Flood is there, and people who act stupidly and insensitively, do get flamed. The only reason the septagon is going downhill is because of people's perception towrd's it, and there attitude toward's being columnists [is that right, sounds like journalism??].

What we really need is an actual seventh column, a secret society who can kidnap devoted members off of the streets of cities and towns around the world, but this isn't going to happen. So, the community needs to take a look at itself, and ask the question, What will I tell the grandchildren?

When your grandchildren ask "where were you when Bungie took over??", Do you want to tell them that you did nothing, that you merely held an account on bungie.net, or do you want to be able to say something inspirational, that you were on the front line from the beginning, converting and educating the millions who haven't already become bungie fanatics, those who can't tell the difference between a SOON and a Soon™, those who don't care about what happened to Durandal at the closing of the universe ....

I rest my overly long case....peace out

  • 06.08.2006 10:49 AM PDT
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I think what your implying is a Seventh Column group but I have never really spent time in teh Septagon so I can't comment on it's general state of decline. See the thing is, if Bungie takes over the world, I'll be blacklisted for setting foot outdoors. I LIKE going outdoors. Seriously though, one needn't go to major lengths to differentiate the two games (wow and h2) to make the simple comparrison between gamer forums. This place is a dream come true compared to the other - I can't fathom what those mods go through because the haters there are accomplished haters out to ruin everyones good time.

[Edited on 6/8/2006]

  • 06.08.2006 10:59 AM PDT

DID YOU KNOW:

-The world has ended, you're just suffering lag

Right, so if you think of the seventh column as group, that technically doesn't exist, because there isn't any one definitive page, you are halfway there. The septagon is the closest that you can get to a seventh column group page, but this threads general view has been that it doesn't really count, because it is afflicted by people who do not obey the law laid down by Bungie [forum rules], and don't care enough to try to understand what the seventh column is.

Reading this back, it seems patronising, but i didn't mean it too. I can't be bothered to change it, but i would like you [and everyone else] to think about it the next time that you see any spam or mis-placed posting. Was the poster going out of their way to spam b.net? and if not, Was the reaction of the other members something you would accept as reasonable?

The forums used to be accepting communities where people hung out to discuss bungie's greatness, but the influx of new member's has created a resurgence of unintelligent posting and general apathy in all members, myself included.

  • 06.08.2006 11:12 AM PDT
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I've been here for quite a while and the apathy comes and goes. You want to see an influx of misplaced outrage you should have been here for "The Great Stat Reset Of 2005". Good God. I expect the worst wave in terms of new posters and belligerence will be the week H3 drops.

  • 06.08.2006 11:15 AM PDT

DID YOU KNOW:

-The world has ended, you're just suffering lag

Actually i was here that week, it took many months for me to even consider starting an account up, but i have been lurking since it was first announced halo was coming to x-box.

And yes, the stat resets were very troubling times, but you could see the light at the end of the tunnel, people weren't going to get anywhere, and would give up. It barely [imo, i didnt have to clear up, the mods probably disagree] affected the septagon, as the forum formerly known as Zanzibar copped for most of the flack.

The most worrying thing about a game release, is the many months of speculation, follwed by roughly a month of delays, followed as much as a year of heavy over-analysis of the plot. H3 will be even worse, as people have already speculated about bungie's next game after H3. Imagine how bad it will get after the release. If it gets too bad I might just leave the forums altogether, coming back after university, when the speculation and anticipation is over. Yep, a four year degree looks awful good from here.

  • 06.08.2006 11:25 AM PDT
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Perhaps you remember last year teh Halo2sucks guys - well, midway through the year in an attempt to see the end of it, some of us tried to register halo3sucks just to keep them from doing so. It was too late - they'd registered it. Just goes to show you that devotion and mean spiritedness have a similar drive.

  • 06.08.2006 11:31 AM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.

Posted by: dmbfan09
Posted by: Senor Leche
I come here to fill my head with Bungie lore and be a Bungie fan but I don't know; it often feels like so many are trying to stand out as individuals around here rather than be a part of a collective mass that enjoys what Bungie does.
Perfect point. Thank you!



And who says conformity is a bad thing? ;-)

  • 06.08.2006 11:58 AM PDT
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I don't know about y'all, but I find myself less and less active. I don't spam or flame(I hardly even post anymore). But, I don't spend hours daily pouring over every single thread I see. I dunno if this is happening to others, but I've grown up. Ya know? I have a life now. This may or may not contribute to all the hate that occurs increasingly here. Maybe some kids get on, and spend what little time they have, just tryin to make other people as unhappy as they are. Maybe many people here don't have lives and spend all their time working toward misery. I dunno. It kinda sucks. But hey. I still love Bungie, and I still love the community.

Anywho, that's my shpeel...

[/end ramblings]

  • 06.08.2006 12:45 PM PDT

Some ppl get too serious about these "chapter wars". I think it's soo funny how they go above and beyond to destroy a group chapter placed somewhere to have fun.

  • 06.08.2006 6:19 PM PDT
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We should help each other. We are bungie fans. That we have in common.

  • 06.08.2006 8:37 PM PDT
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13/02/2005 (I've been on since then.)
Group RPG's!

DO NOT DO IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING IT! DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT NOT DOING IT!

WE MUST RETURN THE 7th COLUMN TO THE UBER COOLNESS!

Nuff said.

  • 06.08.2006 11:50 PM PDT

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The crap at PF and ProComm only support your statement more dmbfan09

  • 06.08.2006 11:55 PM PDT
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You just can't let it go now can you? I don't understand where the passion comes from. It's just unbelievable...

  • 06.09.2006 12:52 AM PDT
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Eh i'm with sparty...

  • 06.09.2006 12:55 AM PDT
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I don't get it to be honest. The whole thing was done to benefit our group. Nevertheless, this is not the thread. Let's continue commending dmbfan09. =D

  • 06.09.2006 12:58 AM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

FOR CARNAGE, APPLY WITHIN
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Posted by: Proteon Nine
You want to see a game forum truly ruined by the same people for whom it was created try visiting the worldofwarcraft forums over yonder at blizzard. B.net is a fraternity by comparison. This is praise folks.


WACCSMD

  • 06.09.2006 9:17 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Posted by: Proteon Nine
You want to see a game forum truly ruined by the same people for whom it was created try visiting the worldofwarcraft forums over yonder at blizzard. B.net is a fraternity by comparison. This is praise folks.


WACCSMD


That is not very nice Jim. :)

  • 06.09.2006 9:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Posted by: Proteon Nine
You want to see a game forum truly ruined by the same people for whom it was created try visiting the worldofwarcraft forums over yonder at blizzard. B.net is a fraternity by comparison. This is praise folks.


WACCSMD


I left my mjolnr decoder ring at home. Thankfully Marathon wasn't just a candy bar BADGCB.

[Edited on 6/9/2006]

  • 06.09.2006 10:21 AM PDT

Dmb i agree with you whole heartly as a man once said before gettin his but kicked "Why can't we all just get along?"

  • 06.09.2006 8:48 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
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Posted by: KSI Shadow Op
Dmb i agree with you whole heartly as a man once said before gettin his but kicked "Why can't we all just get along?"


DMB won't get his but kiked though.

He's a ninja.

  • 06.09.2006 8:49 PM PDT
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I agree with so much people have said. The first game I played by Bungie was Oni. I didn't know it at the time, i thought it was a great game, but I didn't know. I never had a Mac, so i never was able to play the early games, but I now want to, to understand the whole encompassing storyline of Marathon/Halo. There is alot of Bungie backstory that I don't know, and that (as much as I'm saddened about it) I will never be apart of.

And I say all of this because I believe that many people on these forums are lost. And many are too cocky. Alot of people that have been here since the beginning know the importance of helping others on the forums...but there is still a minority who feel that they are better, and will ridicule and talk down to the "newbies". Everyone starts as a "Newbz0r", if you will...I don't care if you were the 10th person to post on the bungie.net forums, you started as a newb like every single person on the planet. And by talking down to people who just don't know (how could they, no one has told them.), you teach them to be the same. They say, "Oh, the people that have been here since the beginning talk down to me, so that must be how we act around here." These are just people who played Halo or Halo 2 and decided that they wanted to broaden their horizons of Bungie Mythology. So what if they haven't played Marathon or Oni, or (God Forbid!) Gnop! It's unneccesary.

But by all means, I'm not saying it's only the "grizzled ancients" of the forums that instigate. There are an influx of cocky newbs who think that because they are a level 25 in Halo Matchmaking, that they know best. These people are the worst kind, because they think they know everything, the act like they know everything, and they will go to their grave thinking they know all. I know how the ancients feel when they encounter these people. I consider myself to be Late-"Middle School" to Early-"Old Skool" in Bungie knowledge. It grows more every day that I learn more Bungie knowledge...And i consider these "Knewb-italls" to be the single most annoying thing on the planet. You cannot reason with them, and they don't want to study on the thing they claim to know. I understand how people can get angry, and want to flame them. But your attention only encourages them to be the way they are.

Then there are the people who are too caught up with their group/too bored. I grouped these together because if you are so caught up with a group that you declare war on another one, then you obviously have NOTHING else to do. We are talking about people on the internet acting like the bloods and crips of L.A. You are on the internet, you have nothing "hard" about you. you are not even a "baby thug" you are someone that plays Halo and then posts on the forums. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't try to be something you're not. Because you aren't the Internet chapter of the Crips.

This is the way the flaming ends. Not with a bang...but with a whimper...

  • 06.09.2006 9:05 PM PDT

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"Knewb-italls"

now that is something I have never heard before.

  • 06.09.2006 9:09 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

I'm trying hard to fix that humanity problem. But it seems every time I walk into the lab something explodes.

After just coming and reading just about everything:

Group/member wars are inevitable. As we already know, humanity is flawed...a lot. A lot of people are going to pick fights for one of many reasons (pride, morals, petty arguments, jealousy, and even plain stupidity).

These wars take me back to a book. Take any two groups that are the same except for a few tiny differences. I'll call one group the Big-Endians, and the other group the Little-Endians. Both the Big-Endians and the Little-Endians are the same. In the big picture, they both exist for the same purpose, and have no actual quarrel. But when it gets to the small, unimportant details, they fight like mad. It's all so terribly pointless, and yet, such battles have been in existence for hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of years.

To another thing:

The mods can't do everything. Members need to take up some responsibility as well.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, or how it's even relevant to anything, but I'm sure there's some truth to what I said.


I wholeheartedly agree. And I believe I have the solution.

Members who take responsibility need to help. The first method of helping is by informing/reminding other members of rules in case of infractions, like posting an ad in the Underground. And even then one should not go around doing just that. Otherwise you're not an actual member of the community. Also note the italics. It's important.

If you see someone breaking the rules very badly (flaming, or something to that degree), contact a mod, etc., etc.

The other thing to do (taking a page from Recon's book) is to make sure to hit the No Reply button in many of the cases of infractions and rule breakings. We don't need 5 people telling someone to post in the Classifieds (unless those 5 people all posted at the same time, in which case it doesn't hurt). We don't need people going around saying "Locked in 3...2...1..." If a thread is halfway down the page, ignore it. If the user bumps the post, ignore it (that way a moderator can more easily identify the bumping). If the thread is about to fall onto the second page, don't reply. My favorite method is to put in a reminder, then leave a comment about the actual purpose of the thread. That way the creator (in case he/she made a mistake) is getting discussion, and learned something.

As to the decline of the Column:

I don't really think it's declining in such a way that it will be destroyed. The way I currently see it, the Column is getting larger, and with all of the groups and group wars, is becoming spread out. With little to support it, the Column will eventually collapse in on itself, and bring everyone back to square one. Whether this happens because Achronos starts everything from scratch or a lot of people begin taking vacations and coming back a bit wiser...I don't know.

It's a phase, and like every phase, we'll grow out of it (and most likely come back into it later on).

  • 06.10.2006 4:31 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
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the Column will eventually collapse in on itself,

Much like peter griffin did when he got liposuction.

But I agree, there are to many groups and not enough members.

The groups wars are just stupid. Your fighting over the internet. a great man once said "Fighting over the internet is like the paralympics. Even if you win, your still retarded (No offences to paralympians).

  • 06.10.2006 4:40 PM PDT

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