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Subject: Flood = not fully evolved Precursor?

While i read something on the Halo Wikia, this Article got me thinking:
The Prisoner of Charum Hakkor, also known as The Timeless One, The Captive or The Primordial was an individual of great power detained on Charum Hakkor. Unbeknownst to most of the galaxy, this individual was thought to be the last living Precursor. However, it has now been revealed that this creature is actually a gravemind.

The creature was discovered on a small planetoid on the distant edge of the galaxy by a Human researcher, named Yprin Yprikushma, who had excavated the planetoid and exposed the ancient capsule that contained The Primordial in viscous hibernation. Yprin recognised the Primordial as an important and ancient Biological artifact, and transported it to Charum Hakkor for further research. Despite the advanced nature of Precursor technology, the humans managed to find a way to communicate with the captive for brief periods of time. They came to regard the creature within the cell as an oracle of sorts, asking it questions in the hopes of gaining greater understanding. Most of the time, the prisoner's answers were confused or unintelligible. When the Flood first made an appearance in the Milky Way, several humans questioned the prisoner as to the nature and origin of the "disease". When the prisoner gave them an answer, the humans present were so deeply horrified that many of them committed suicide. Following the end of the Human-Forerunner wars, the Didact and a group of Prometheans gained access to the Prisoner. It told the Didact that it was the last Precursor, and that the Forerunners had rebelled against the Precursors. The Didact told none of this to any, save the Librarian. When 05-032 Mendicant Bias tested a Halo in the Charum Hakkor system, the Halo's energies shattered every Precursor structure on the planet, freeing the prisoner. Realizing what he had uncovered, the Master Builder had the prisoner taken to Installation 07 so that it could be interrogated by Mendicant Bias. At some point during the long interrogation, the prisoner convinced Mendicant Bias to betray his masters. From this point on, he began conducting experiments on the Human and Forerunner occupants of Installation 07, consisting of infecting individuals with the "Shaping Sickess", known more commonly as The Flood. At the end of Halo: Primordium, it is revealed that the prisoner is actually a Gravemind, re-inforcing the established canon concerning Mendicant Bias' betrayal of the Forerunners. In the ending of Primordium the prisoner was killed by the Didact using a Reverse Timelock.
(Source: halo.wikia.com/Prisoner of Charum Hakkor)

Maybe the Flood are merely an unfinished or not fully evolved form of the Precursors.

Bam. New Halo trilogy solved.

Or is it?

  • 06.06.2012 5:21 AM PDT


Posted by: Vinny White
Intredasting
Intredasting indeed.

I mean, for all we know about the Precursors (which is basically nothing), the Flood could be either their "remains" when the were killed or some "reseeding", something like that.

  • 06.06.2012 5:42 AM PDT

For all we know the Flood could've been as simple as a bio-weapon used by the Precursors

  • 06.06.2012 5:55 AM PDT


Posted by: RangyPro1337
For all we know the Flood could've been as simple as a bio-weapon used by the Precursors
Yes, indeed.

Maybe the boundary between what is "Precursor" and what is "Flood" is not that solid. I mean, they are said to be transsentient and used so called neural physics and stuff. It could be that their "consciousness" is still around and may control the Flood or be contained inside them.

  • 06.06.2012 6:09 AM PDT

The Precursors created the Flood to see which of the two species they created (Humans and Forerunners) could contain it and they better of the two would be the next keepers of the Mantle.

  • 06.06.2012 7:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Sloanus
The Precursors created the Flood to see which of the two species they created (Humans and Forerunners) could contain it and they better of the two would be the next keepers of the Mantle.
Wouldn't that be a violation of the Mantle itself?

  • 06.06.2012 7:31 AM PDT

~Thomsn0w

Hmm, I think yyou could be right.

Just out of curiosity, do Graveminds have shared memories.
Like will the Gravemind from Halo 2 have the same memories as Halo Wars?

[Edited on 06.06.2012 7:37 AM PDT]

  • 06.06.2012 7:36 AM PDT


Posted by: Thomsn0w
Hmm, I think yyou could be right.

Just out of curiosity, do Graveminds have shared memories.
Like will the Gravemind from Halo 2 have the same memories as Halo Wars?

There was no ''real'' gravemind in halo wars, only protogravemind constructed from plants wildlife.

  • 06.06.2012 7:40 AM PDT

~Thomsn0w


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Thomsn0w
Hmm, I think yyou could be right.

Just out of curiosity, do Graveminds have shared memories.
Like will the Gravemind from Halo 2 have the same memories as Halo Wars?

There was no ''real'' gravemind in halo wars, only protogravemind constructed from plants wildlife.

True.

  • 06.06.2012 7:44 AM PDT


Posted by: Thomsn0w
Hmm, I think yyou could be right.

Just out of curiosity, do Graveminds have shared memories.
Like will the Gravemind from Halo 2 have the same memories as Halo Wars?
Actually, that might be an interesting question even though i don't know what a "proto"-blabla gravemind is. Perfectly blends in with what i said earlier about how the Precursors minds might be involved in the whole matter.

[Edited on 06.06.2012 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 06.06.2012 8:01 AM PDT


Posted by: Thomsn0w

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: Thomsn0w
Hmm, I think yyou could be right.

Just out of curiosity, do Graveminds have shared memories.
Like will the Gravemind from Halo 2 have the same memories as Halo Wars?

There was no ''real'' gravemind in halo wars, only protogravemind constructed from plants wildlife.

True.

sorry, i meant to say planets wildlife. not plants...
''e'' didn't work.

  • 06.06.2012 8:50 AM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.

I read somewhere that the precursors invented the flood to kill off the forerunners

  • 06.06.2012 9:28 AM PDT


Posted by: Mark V guy
I read somewhere that the precursors invented the flood to kill off the forerunners
I read something like that too, somewhere. But that doesn't mean it has to be correct. ;D

Maybe a part of the Precursors is inside them or they are somehow mentally or physically connected. I don't know it, but i suspect it! ;D

  • 06.06.2012 10:08 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.

  • 06.06.2012 10:39 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.
Clearly, you don't understand what i am going for. Maybe it's due to my lack of proper explanation. I'll try my best.

I suspect that, the "Flood", that includes the Gravemind(s), derived from/are actually the Precursors or are in some sort, may it be spiritually/physically or otherwise connected to them. Maybe they are, quite literally, the materialized "anger" or "revenge" of the Precursors.

  • 06.06.2012 10:55 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.
Clearly, you don't understand what i am going for. Maybe it's due to my lack of proper explanation. I'll try my best.

I suspect that, the "Flood", that includes the Gravemind(s), derived from/are actually the Precursors or are in some sort, may it be spiritually/physically or otherwise connected to them. Maybe they are, quite literally, the materialized "anger" or "revenge" of the Precursors.


I think that was heavily implied in Cryptum/Primordium, so I don't see the need for this theory...

  • 06.06.2012 11:02 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.
Clearly, you don't understand what i am going for. Maybe it's due to my lack of proper explanation. I'll try my best.

I suspect that, the "Flood", that includes the Gravemind(s), derived from/are actually the Precursors or are in some sort, may it be spiritually/physically or otherwise connected to them. Maybe they are, quite literally, the materialized "anger" or "revenge" of the Precursors.


I think that was heavily implied in Cryptum/Primordium, so I don't see the need for this theory...
So it was heavily implied in Halo: Cryptum and Halo: Primordium, that the Flood are actually "a part" of the Precursors (physically or at least with some physical significance)?

  • 06.06.2012 11:16 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.
Clearly, you don't understand what i am going for. Maybe it's due to my lack of proper explanation. I'll try my best.

I suspect that, the "Flood", that includes the Gravemind(s), derived from/are actually the Precursors or are in some sort, may it be spiritually/physically or otherwise connected to them. Maybe they are, quite literally, the materialized "anger" or "revenge" of the Precursors.


I think that was heavily implied in Cryptum/Primordium, so I don't see the need for this theory...
So it was heavily implied in Halo: Cryptum and Halo: Primordium, that the Flood are actually "a part" of the Precursors (physically or at least with some physical significance)?


I believe the timeless one was a gravemind, but I'm not sure if it was of Precursor creation.

  • 06.06.2012 11:20 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: realdomdom

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The Flood is the epitome of evolution, so no, they are not "not fully evolved Precursors". Proto-graveminds are just the previous step to a Gravemind, once they gather more biomass they become a Gravemind, nothing to do with Precursors.

Also, if Precursors controlled the Flood, then there would be no needs for a Gravemind, let alone several of them like in the Flood-Forerunner war.
Clearly, you don't understand what i am going for. Maybe it's due to my lack of proper explanation. I'll try my best.

I suspect that, the "Flood", that includes the Gravemind(s), derived from/are actually the Precursors or are in some sort, may it be spiritually/physically or otherwise connected to them. Maybe they are, quite literally, the materialized "anger" or "revenge" of the Precursors.


I think that was heavily implied in Cryptum/Primordium, so I don't see the need for this theory...
So it was heavily implied in Halo: Cryptum and Halo: Primordium, that the Flood are actually "a part" of the Precursors (physically or at least with some physical significance)?


I believe the timeless one was a gravemind, but I'm not sure if it was of Precursor creation.
Well, i'm not sure either, but i have a feeling that the Flood are actually the Precursors in another form and maybe even vice versa.

[Edited on 06.06.2012 11:55 AM PDT]

  • 06.06.2012 11:54 AM PDT

We know that Precursors created forerunners and humans. We know that bornsteller before he was imprinted didnt look too much different from chakkas. We know from primordium and the more current halo novels + games that humans can interact with the halo rings meaning that on a genetic level they are very similar.

Forerunners where tested by the precursors and failed, the precursers planned to wipe them out and then test humans but forerunners rebelled and destroyed there creators. I do not yet understand why forerunners do not remember this happening, was it covered up?

The flood chose not to infect humans in primordium but forerunners did not share the same fate. At the end of the book the primordial explains that this is because humans are now being tested. Yet since modern humans re discovered the flood they have been infected by them, does this mean humans failed the test? or does it mean the flood now has a different motive.

At the end of primordium we discover that the primordial is in fact a grave mind "I see now that you are nothing more than a mash-up of old victims infected by the Flood. A Gravemind. Were all the Precursors Graveminds?" yet there is absolutely no reason for him to claim he was a precurser when he is not. Another thing that stands out is he seems to know a lot about forerunners, humans and precursers, so he certainly makes a convincing precurser. This leads me to believe that the primordial was in fact a gravemind, with the conciousness of a precurser, perhaps as he claims the last surviving precurser (before he transferred his conciousness into the flood).

I believe in the theory that there can only be one true gravemind and that proto graveminds exist. I think when the flood combines into one mass they become obviously larger and much more intelligent, yet no proto gravemind has ever spoken or shown they have any kind of personality, only a true gravemind has ever spoken. This makes sense when the primordial says "It is your task to kill this servant, that another may be freed" I take that as meaning that the precursers conciousness is riding the gravemind (the servent) and when he is killed his conciousness will merely be transferred into another gravemind.

During the precurser forerunner was there where obviously no prisoners of war taken by the forerunners or any survivors on the prescurser side, meaning that forerunners totally whiped precursers out of the univerese.

My theory is that the last precurser created the flood as payback and transferred his spirit into them before he either died or he could have possibly died as a result of the process (much like the forerunners and humans being transferred to monitors in primordium). The flood would have been created by the last precurser as the ultimate weapen, a way to live on and continue to fight the forerunners, a way to destroy the forerunners once and for all, and fulfill the precursors original plan.

I do not believe that the flood was also created to possibly re seed precursers. I have been thinking, they created forerunners and humans to search for a species that could take up the mantle. Maybe this means the precursers wished to trancend in some way but wished to leave "the keys to the universe" behind to a species they could trust and who would follow there old ways.

Another reason i do not believe this theory is that like i said earlier the conciousness of the last precurser can only be active in one gravemind at a time, making it impossible to re seed the precursers.

And a final reason i do not believe that theory is that i dont think precursers looked anything like the flood or the graveminds, it is hinted that they created the forerunners and humans of there own image. I could never really picture this great big tentacle looking thing being able to build amazingly advanced (and very fiddly) technology without having hands and aposable thumbs.

  • 08.01.2012 2:47 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

That was a great read, thank you for this. As for your very last comment..... Huragok use "tentacles" and can outperform pretty much anyone when working with any technology. Perhaps a Precursor can do the same.

  • 08.01.2012 3:27 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.

This is how I see it: Precursors can create just about anything, they can even change their own physiology just by thinking; their mind is tied to their genes, vice versa.

One of the Precursors though the Flood (his own idea), was the solution to galactic peace; enjoyment of living time.

  • 08.01.2012 3:30 AM PDT

If the last remaining precursor claims to be a gravemind, then shouldn't it be obvious that the flood are precursor?

  • 08.01.2012 4:04 AM PDT

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