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This topic has moved here: Subject: Question Concerning Titles and Scripts like Coup
  • Subject: Question Concerning Titles and Scripts like Coup
Subject: Question Concerning Titles and Scripts like Coup

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Before I begin my post I must provide a forward. First, an apology, as I do not commonly view threads of this nature, and as such they are somewhat unfamiliar waters for me. If such discussion has occurred before, referencing points, facts, and/or theories is certainly welcome. As some of you may say, I cannot forum. I want you to reply with your information and thoughts.

To me titles and scripts like coup are a strangely defining experience for certain members. Yet despite the ability to record bans, posts, threads, and account age, to me they are something of a mystery. While I'm sure some of you may know specifics, which I welcome you to incorporate into your responses, I myself will not name any, clearly as I cannot. This thread is not about "what do titles mean to you?", or the "how do titles impact your bungie experience?", but a rather something much more simple and forward yet rich. I am merely concerned with the discussion of titles and how they work with the forums, colloquially put: how say titles work?

While titles have no always been present on Bungie.net, since their induction there has been quite some mystery and controversy surrounding them. I assume for these reasons has such a topic been popular, and so widely talked about. My experience with titles has been so-so, like many users I have experienced the low end and the high end. I know for certain the low end came from bans, yet I speculate on the high end. Perhaps it is the result on lack of bans, or perhaps the frequency of posting. Maybe it's my charming smile. I don't think I'll ever truly know. Perhaps someone could tell me.

When concerning scripts we must admit that the discussion has been fewer seen, likely because they were a much more recent, and strictly voluntary addition to our wonderful forums. While I am not a big 'scribe' as some of you may be, I have partaken in several iterations of the 'Coup D' Bungie' Script. Just like titles, I have close to no understand of scripts; and just like titles I am concerning with their discussion.

By now you should acknowledge that titles and scripts are the heart of the issue here. How they function in the forums and discussion of them are my chief concern. It pains me to see any such discussions hampered. It is for this reason that I conclude my forward and introduce the crux of my argument: threads concerned with common issues like titles or scripts. Unlike the other forums on this site, the Septagon is unique in its treatment of threads concerned with common issues like titles or scripts. When a thread pops up with said topic, rather than promoting discussion with innovative thought, criticism, and new ideas, users tend to advertise the top forum topics related to the issue. I have come to call these such threads Duardo Super Threads, not in any disrespect to D, but rather because he authored the more prominent ones, call it a commonality.

For a very long time I have voiced some opposition to such treatment of new topics concerned with such concepts, and for a very long time people have still responded the same way. While their contribution is as helpful as it is informative, in many ways they are dodging the discussion at hand, and as such weakening potential discussion, dare I say harming it. Links to such threads may clarify and issue, but to have a policy of posting all related content in one thread is harmful for discussion.

Due to the sheer volume of content being provided by users, it is no surprising that such discussion can be lost in large threads alone. This is the main reason I oppose attempting to mitigate discussion to said threads. Valid points can become lost in the 'noise' of side-posts, and often are later overlooked. While the authors of the threads do certainly a good job of bringing key points to the OP, people are not perfect, and the discretion and awareness of the author will ultimately determine if an idea will thrive or not.

So it is of my opinion that we should promote discussion in threads concerned with titles or scripts like coup. While certain discussion may be more relevant to groups, things that are applicable to the main forums should not be forced into a thread where they will be overlooked in a sea of posts. While the threads do help promote ideas, they can also go against the natural process of discussion, where certain topics die and others are widely discussed. My opinions are strong and it is for this reason I believe we might have to reach a middle ground of sorts. I will yield that for obvious resolved questions concerning discussion of titles or scripts that the D Super Threads be linked for reference and understanding. This being said, I do not think the discussion itself should be moved to these large threads. Such takes away from the discussion of the topic, and adds more noise to the D Super Threads. I believe the discussion should only be moved to a D Super Thread when a unique and key post is made, one which may solve several pieces of the puzzle, or revolutionize the customization of the site. So I ask not to mindlessly post a link to a D Super Thread, but to think about the discussion at hand, and whether or not it would be better or not taking it's natural discussion course in the forum.

Haha, you've made it this far. Ultimately, I would like to thank you for reading my varied and perhaps unpopular opinions on this manner. As mentioned before I apologize if I've touched on an issue that is either no longer relevant or has been resolved. If you have any information on the discussion of titles or scripts like coup, or perhaps threads that encounter similar circumstances to those aforementioned, I welcome this discussion.

Danke,
Duck



[Edited on 06.07.2012 12:53 PM PDT]

  • 06.07.2012 12:52 PM PDT

So, basically, you're saying that we should be able to discuss titles and even Coup outside of Duardo's "super thread"? That's all? I did read the whole thing and after filtering out the filler about your own experience with titles I basically found what you were aiming at.

Long OP for just that, if that is what you're getting at.

  • 06.07.2012 1:00 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
So, basically, you're saying that we should be able to discuss titles and even Coup outside of Duardo's "super thread"? That's all? I did read the whole thing and after filtering out the filler about your own experience with titles I basically found what you were aiming at.

Long OP for just that, if that is what you're getting at.
I would not want the issue confused so I may confess that such matter is the crux of the issue, but under certain circumstances. Congratulations on being capable of reading. That's cool.

But what I really want more than anything is opinions on this matter. While you may demean the issue by phrases such as "that's all?', I'm certain the issue is perhaps larger and more important than anything being discussed right now.

  • 06.07.2012 1:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
I would not want the issue confused so I may confess that such matter is the crux of the issue, but under certain circumstances. Congratulations on being capable of reading. That's cool.

But what I really want more than anything is opinions on this matter. While you may demean the issue by phrases such as "that's all?', I'm certain the issue is perhaps larger and more important than anything being discussed right now.
Reading over my response, it does seem a little harsh. I didn't mean my language to come off that way, my bad homie. I'm pretty hooked on phonics so my reading is quite fantastic.

I get where you're coming from as well as what you're aiming for. I never saw titles as something that fostered this much discussion, but now I see that they can be. As for Coup, I used the Bnet Coup v1 in ~2008/09 (whenever it first came out) and haven't used it ever since; it got boring.

Sorry again for coming off as a jerk, I enjoyed reading your post and knew you were saying more, I just couldn't uncover it. I probably read too fast. Nice post, and I hope you see some good opinions that you are searching for. As for me: Exalted Master Race.

[Edited on 06.07.2012 1:10 PM PDT]

  • 06.07.2012 1:09 PM PDT

"There's daggers in men's smiles." - Donalbain, Macbeth, Act II, scene iii

The majority of title-related threads pose questions which are already answered in the OP of this thread. Some users present new and engaging ideas in regards to titles, and if you browse through the older pages in the Community forum, you'll find that most threads regarding titles are or have been allowed in the Community forum. Threads about forum titles are only locked if they ask blatantly obvious questions that don't promote discussion or the answers to said questions are easily explained in the OP of Duardo's Title Thread.

Scripts, however, are a different story. One thread serving as a database for all of the completed scripts is going to be essential. That being said, it would be easier to discuss and promote individual scripts in individual threads (in addition to the script being listed in the database). Lets say that ApocalypeX decides to completely revamp the Bungie Achievements script. I'm certain that nearly everyone who uses a script-compatible web browser will be interested in a script of that magnitude, yet with the current rules involving scripts, it would be dreadfully easy to overlook such a thing.

I see nothing wrong with the laws and bylaws surrounding the discussion of titles, but I would like to see the some changes involving the allowance of script discussions.

  • 06.07.2012 1:34 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

While I won't disagree that most are permitted within the confines of the rules, there are some that do have legitimate points that are somewhat put off. When I say put off, I do not mean locked in violation of rules, but rather select users attempt to forward the discussion to other threads.

I see the community response as more important than the rules, considering how lax and dangerously ambiguous the rules have become as of late.

  • 06.07.2012 1:39 PM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.

Careacters man

Why does this website matter to you so much?

  • 06.07.2012 2:07 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Positive vibes.

Sounds reasonable to me.

  • 06.07.2012 2:15 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Ultimately, I think that it's contingent on the dilution of the activity in question. For example, the pre-title era was relatively simple. There wasn't a ton of generalized confusion for the most part. There were only a few user customizations. Things like the mod stalker and my Firefox theme could have their own discussion threads, where it was much easier to follow the occurrences of each and discussion was not jumbled between projects.

When threads came along, the forums started to become diluted. Duardo created the FAQ thread because it seemed necessary at the time. People were asking the same questions constantly - which happens all the time, but not at the rate that it was happening here. The thread served as a sponge to keep the discussion flowing and to answer common questions, keeping information in a place that stayed on top of the forum listing very often and was easy to locate. The downside was that the discussion inside the thread became cluttered and hard to navigate.

I, for one, was a little dismayed by the above activity which is why, when messing around with Greasemonkey one fateful night, I decided to make a script that turned everyone's titles and bar colors off. I was annoyed by titles, and I didn't care about how they worked. I didn't want to judge people by them and I really didn't want to know about them. I decided to throw in the ability to customize your own colors and avatar to make your own posts more visible, and I named the script "Coup d'Bungie" because it was my intent to overthrow the title system. That's ultimately not what the script became, but it was the intention behind the script that started the movement of customizations that we witness today.

Because scripting took off, another problem was created. With scripting, it was somewhat about dilution, because script threads often were bumped up to the top of the forum listing, but it was even more about being able to track scripts and have a central repository for them. So Duardo collaborated with the users who were, at the time, the only script makers. The Script Central thread was created. Once again, people could find information easily and the forums were not diluted, but discussion within the thread was hard to participate in, and very cluttered.

Groups were always the solution to the clutter issue in the past. But they're also very limited and won't often be able to help someone who's just wandered into the forums and noticed a script or two. Trust me, I still get private messages asking me if I can add them to Coup's "master script".

I don't necessarily have a solid opinion on this. There are tradeoffs to both methods. Obviously, title discussion has been relaxed to a degree now, which may partially be due to the fact that titles are now well-known and talked about less. Perhaps the same will happen with scripts, although I doubt that the "super thread" for either topic will go away anytime soon.

[Edited on 06.07.2012 2:26 PM PDT]

  • 06.07.2012 2:25 PM PDT

I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all.

That was quite a mouthful, but I'm guessing your kind of used to that ;)

JK, It sounds reasonable to me also.

  • 06.07.2012 2:36 PM PDT

To Make Posts is Glorious

Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

...is there really no hidden message here?

  • 06.07.2012 3:04 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

At least it was well written and easy to understand.

  • 06.07.2012 3:16 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: the squee masta
...is there really no hidden message here?
sorry that this isn't another minefield thread

[Edited on 06.07.2012 3:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.07.2012 3:27 PM PDT

AV=http://avatar.coolclip.ru/albums/Avatars/Avatars%2090x90/A vatars_90x90_022.gif
BG=http://avatar.coolclip.ru/albums/Avatars/Avatars%2090x90/A vatars_90x90_022.gif

>So it is of my opinion that we should promote discussion in threads concerned with titles or scripts like coup.

I disagree. Threads that are not about what you mentioned get pushed down simply because scripts are new and hip. A script like coup even has people sometimes saying, "hey got coup, wow, oh hey how's my coup, like it?"

Every time anyone made a new script and made a thread for it. It instantly hit the top.

[Edited on 06.07.2012 7:52 PM PDT]

  • 06.07.2012 7:50 PM PDT