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Subject: Could a super mac 1 hit ko a super carrier?

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.

Could it kill a covie super carrier (28km long) in 1 hit with it's shields on???

We know it can 1 hit ko an assualt carrier...

  • 06.09.2012 11:16 AM PDT

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Could a "super" Mac kill a Super Carrier in one hit?
Posted by: ferrrari
Could a Covenant Super Carrier with full shields, die in one hit from a "super" Mac?


Taken from the wiki.

No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third ship.

  • 06.09.2012 12:03 PM PDT
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Someone should post up the numbers. How many did we have over Reach, how many ships? How many nukes!?

Let's say the covenant had 300 ships and we had 50 platforms. If we cancel out double hits with misses we should get around 50 kills per salvo.

At the rate Cairo station fired while we ran on it in Halo 2 the Covenant fleet should have been obliterated. This is ignoring our nukes and our own ships!

Not to mention taking over enemy ships with ODST's or Spartans.

  • 06.09.2012 12:12 PM PDT

According to thermodynamics, even if the shields survived the ship wouldn't according to Halopedian.

So I've got no idea.

  • 06.09.2012 12:40 PM PDT

Well, as we have no known cases of a super carrier going against a super MAC platform, we can't really say.

I'd imagine yes, it could still operate after being hit though.

  • 06.09.2012 1:04 PM PDT

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Definitely not, I would guess. A Covenant Super Carrier is massive, I do not think the Super Mac could destroy it.

  • 06.09.2012 1:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Madmaxepic
Definitely not, I would guess. A Covenant Super Carrier is massive, I do not think the Super Mac could destroy it.
I guess you didn't read this from a few posts up:
No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third ship.

  • 06.09.2012 1:34 PM PDT


Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
Posted by: Madmaxepic
Definitely not, I would guess. A Covenant Super Carrier is massive, I do not think the Super Mac could destroy it.
I guess you didn't read this from a few posts up:
No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third ship.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but was that statement not made BEFORE the creation of the super-carrier?

And to one-hit disable, you'd have to be damn lucky. Like, either exactly hit the nose and go through the entire ship (See as it is more then three assault carriers in length IIRC, I don't see that happening.), or pierce and hit the power generator on that hit (again, slim).

The super carrier is far bigger then assault carriers, meaning thicker hull as well as sheer size difference. If a super-mac can go through one assault carrier and hit another (maybe or maybe not go through), that still doesn't account for the entire height/width/length of the supercarrier.

edit: http://www.halopedian.com/images/8/8a/Assault_vs_Super_n_comp .jpg

My point is secured with that picture.

[Edited on 06.09.2012 1:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2012 1:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
Posted by: Madmaxepic
Definitely not, I would guess. A Covenant Super Carrier is massive, I do not think the Super Mac could destroy it.
I guess you didn't read this from a few posts up:
No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third ship.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but was that statement not made BEFORE the creation of the super-carrier?

And to one-hit disable, you'd have to be damn lucky. Like, either exactly hit the nose and go through the entire ship (See as it is more then three assault carriers in length IIRC, I don't see that happening.), or pierce and hit the power generator on that hit (again, slim).

The super carrier is far bigger then assault carriers, meaning thicker hull as well as sheer size difference. If a super-mac can go through one assault carrier and hit another (maybe or maybe not go through), that still doesn't account for the entire height/width/length of the supercarrier.

edit: http://www.halopedian.com/images/8/8a/Assault_vs_Super_n_comp .jpg

My point is secured with that picture.
I agree that the supercarrier is huge and must have very large shields. The station in First Strike had shields powerful enough to deflect a collision with a small moon. I would think the supercarrier must have some super shields. At the same time I did the kinetic energy calculations and I got 1.96363656*10^22 Joules of energy per hit. That is a lot of energy, I think it could survive more than one defiantly.

  • 06.09.2012 2:00 PM PDT

The only real spot you'd have to try hitting is the neck.

But even then... you'd have to hit it from the side(and with a few hits) to deal enough damage to sever the bulk of the neck and cause the front part of the ship to rip free.

  • 06.09.2012 2:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The only real spot you'd have to try hitting is the neck.

But even then... you'd have to hit it from the side(and with a few hits) to deal enough damage to sever the bulk of the neck and cause the front part of the ship to rip free.
But can't the covenant disattacht certain parts of the ship. Plus given the size of the supercarrier it could probably shed off a lot of its bulk if the damage is extreme. So it could be very durable, with its massive shields and its ability to shed off parts of the ship.

  • 06.09.2012 2:40 PM PDT


Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The only real spot you'd have to try hitting is the neck.

But even then... you'd have to hit it from the side(and with a few hits) to deal enough damage to sever the bulk of the neck and cause the front part of the ship to rip free.
But can't the covenant disattacht certain parts of the ship. Plus given the size of the supercarrier it could probably shed off a lot of its bulk if the damage is extreme. So it could be very durable, with its massive shields and its ability to shed off parts of the ship.


If it behaves similar to how the assault carrier in Halo legends did... then yes, extensive damage to the neck wouldn't disable the ship even then. They'd just perform the separation maneuver.

  • 06.09.2012 3:15 PM PDT
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It would be a matter of how strong the shields are.

Personally I think that Super Macs are OP and would basically have been created to destroy anything.

If it penetrates the shields, it is a 100% confirmed kill. No chance.

[Edited on 06.09.2012 4:56 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2012 4:55 PM PDT

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Posted by: Quantam
It would be a matter of how strong the shields are.

Personally I think that Super Macs are OP and would basically have been created to destroy anything.

If it penetrates the shields, it is a 100% confirmed kill. No chance.


And according to law of thermodynamics, if those ship's shields absorb all impact kinetic energy transferred from 3,000 ton slug at traveling of .4c would entirely vaporize entire ship.

So yes, Supercarrier would be destroyed in one hit from SMACs. There is various explicit details saying that impact of SMACs making various ships to shatter to fragments.

  • 06.09.2012 6:02 PM PDT

What a waste....

The SMAC shoots at like a tenth of the speed of light, yes? That would probably break the shields, at least, and since the ship is so long, I don't think that the shields would be very concentrated. They'd be more spread out, so that way, they could resist fighters easily, not spend $$$ on better shields, and still function pretty well. After all, with the number of fighters it could carry, it would probably use automated drones as an actual, physical shield.

  • 06.09.2012 6:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Elder Bias

Posted by: Quantam
It would be a matter of how strong the shields are.

Personally I think that Super Macs are OP and would basically have been created to destroy anything.

If it penetrates the shields, it is a 100% confirmed kill. No chance.


And according to law of thermodynamics, if those ship's shields absorb all impact kinetic energy transferred from 3,000 ton slug at traveling of .4c would entirely vaporize entire ship.

So yes, Supercarrier would be destroyed in one hit from SMACs. There is various explicit details saying that impact of SMACs making various ships to shatter to fragments.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't every single case of a MAC round not penetrating shields described as the round hitting shields, and bouncing away? I just remember them talking about MAC's hitting shields and being deflected, not hitting shields and stopping cold. I think the same description is used for the MJOLNIR shields?

I'm not quite understanding this "Oh, the shields absorbed the strike, therefore the ship goes ka-boom anyway." theory.

And again, the biggest ship we've seen is an assault carrier before. Super carriers we haven't seen against a super MAC, and frankly, going through one assault carrier and into another isn't going to go all the way through a super carrier (as shown by size difference)

I mean, we have examples of those rounds completely gutting CCS class ships, and maybe even assault carriers. But those are a completely different size range and league from the super carrier. It's like saying something can go through a Miranda class saucer in star trek, therefore it can go entirely through a borg cube.

edit: Yeah, Johnson's line about a super MAC like Cairo going through a covenant cap ships probably talks about CCS class ships.

Posted by: Nocbl2
The SMAC shoots at like a tenth of the speed of light, yes? That would probably break the shields, at least, and since the ship is so long, I don't think that the shields would be very concentrated. They'd be more spread out, so that way, they could resist fighters easily, not spend $$$ on better shields, and still function pretty well. After all, with the number of fighters it could carry, it would probably use automated drones as an actual, physical shield.


I'd agree with the shields... if it had the same power source as a smaller ship. But I think the super carrier has a big enough power supply to have good shields all around. It wouldn't need it's shields to resist fighters. That's what they have those massive bays for. Fighters to take on UNSC ones. And pulse laser fire is known to gut entire missile barrages.




edit2: I mean, the whole Shields absorbing energy thus the ship gets hotter sounds more like how Mass Effect ship 'shields' work, not covie shields(As I hear it). Cause... it sounds like if I hit MJOLNIR armor with a heavy enough force, and the shields absorb it, you are saying the guy in MJOLNIR's going to be vaporized anyway. Even if the shields absorb all the damage and still have power/aren't drained fully.

[Edited on 06.09.2012 6:37 PM PDT]

  • 06.09.2012 6:23 PM PDT

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We don't know how "shields" actually operate in terms of how energy is dissipated and how momentum is transferred between the round and the shields, but I would guess that it would be the same as the way in which a bullet interacts with a solid surface, i.e. a LOT of force being distributed per unit area. In that case, even though the shields could MAYBE withstand a "small moon" hitting it, that is an entirely different scenario to what is essentially a needle travelling at relativistic velocities. With an asteriod, it is far larger and so you are able to spread that energy over a greater area of shielding, and the avarage pressure being exerted on the shields would be far lower than a MAC round. (The asteriod is like a slow moving blunt object; the MAC round is like a bullet) So I think that the shields, despite being strong enough to dissipate the energy of an asteroid collision, would basically "burst" when a SMAC hits them. We know from Ghosts of Onyx that Covenant ship shields are compartmentalised, so smaller regions would probably not be as strong as the whole, and so more likely to fail. Or maybe the shield emitters would simply be torn from their mountings and destroyed from the sheer momentum being transferred to them.

The SMAC round might shatter at that point from hitting the shield, and basically form a cone of fast moving debris which would expand as the debris tore further into the ship, causing far more damage than just a single solid round passing through. Given its size it is going to be manoeuvring quite slowly, and has probably got a larger reactor then most other Covenant ships. Anything near the engineering section would be catastrophic really, as it would probably sever major power conduits and leave a lot of systems without power.

  • 06.09.2012 10:42 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round.

To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.

  • 06.10.2012 7:36 AM PDT


Posted by: ArrivedLactose
Someone should post up the numbers. How many did we have over Reach, how many ships? How many nukes!?

Let's say the covenant had 300 ships and we had 50 platforms. If we cancel out double hits with misses we should get around 50 kills per salvo.

At the rate Cairo station fired while we ran on it in Halo 2 the Covenant fleet should have been obliterated. This is ignoring our nukes and our own ships!

Not to mention taking over enemy ships with ODST's or Spartans.



That's why at Earth only one ship got through...

  • 06.10.2012 10:48 AM PDT

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Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
Posted by: Madmaxepic
Definitely not, I would guess. A Covenant Super Carrier is massive, I do not think the Super Mac could destroy it.
I guess you didn't read this from a few posts up:
No known ship, UNSC or Covenant, has been shown to survive the impact of one of these rounds. Against Covenant shield technology, the rounds possess enough kinetic energy to punch through shields, cut through the ship, and, upon exit, still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third ship.


No supercarrier has been hit by SMACS so far though, so that text above does not apply.

  • 06.10.2012 11:08 AM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round.

To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.


To clear this up for my own sake. You are saying firing a super mac at ANYTHING will result in the ship being destroyed?

So if I fired a super MAC at a forerunner ship (or the keyships from halo 2/3), and it's shields (being so much more advanced) weren't taken down in a single hit from the blast, the ship itself would take massive damage?

That is what I'm not understanding. For this concept to apply to Covie ship shields, it'd apply to everything. and I just can't grasp this idea of "Ship gets hit, shields HOLD and are still up, ship explodes."

  • 06.10.2012 1:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: HipiO7
I´d say it would take it´s shields down, and if not, it would do massive damage to the ship itself because of the transfer of force from the round.

To completely leave the ship inoperable, I´d say 2 shots max.


To clear this up for my own sake. You are saying firing a super mac at ANYTHING will result in the ship being destroyed?

So if I fired a super MAC at a forerunner ship (or the keyships from halo 2/3), and it's shields (being so much more advanced) weren't taken down in a single hit from the blast, the ship itself would take massive damage?

That is what I'm not understanding. For this concept to apply to Covie ship shields, it'd apply to everything. and I just can't grasp this idea of "Ship gets hit, shields HOLD and are still up, ship explodes."


I am not a physics expert by any means so I am wrong on this. I think what they mean by that is that the shields can't dissipate the kinetic energy anywhere else but the ship, so that the force of the SMAC would be transferred to the hull of the ship through the shields. The shields may have some method of dissipating the energy over time, because energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed from one form to another.

  • 06.10.2012 1:56 PM PDT

But, at the same time we have (as I recall) reports that MAC shots fired at shields that weren't powerful enough to punch through hit, but glanced off/was deflected.

Like frigates against a CCS class, they fire their MAC rounds and it hits, then bounces off. I might be utterly wrong but I'd see the same thing happening to a super carrier from a Super MAC. It hits, but doesn't have enough power to punch straight through so it gets deflected.

  • 06.10.2012 2:01 PM PDT
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Five exclamations marks are a good signifier of an insane mind. As is trying to hide from Death in an airtight room. Silly wizard.

Again, this is all just guess work. My thought is that the shields can safely dissipate the energy in some weird way. If they are hit with something sufficiently powerful, the shields can't dissipate all the energy safely and it transfers from the shields into the ship destroying it.

  • 06.10.2012 2:06 PM PDT


Posted by: MAC Blast
Again, this is all just guess work. My thought is that the shields can safely dissipate the energy in some weird way. If they are hit with something sufficiently powerful, the shields can't dissipate all the energy safely and it transfers from the shields into the ship destroying it.


I'd agree, but that makes me think the shields would just pop anyway. Not "Shields remain up, but the ship goes boom regardless."

  • 06.10.2012 2:11 PM PDT

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