- DecepticonCobra
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@accordingto343
Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.
Posted by: risay_117
But what makes a gravemind first thing first, where did it come from. It came from the hosts it self. Its whole characteristics its understanding comes from those it absorbs. The only time it controls is in the beginning, when you resist it, but once you are part of it, your idea of what is good for it changes.
But do you not see that you have no choice? If you do not want to be infected, it does not matter because you will be. Why SHOULD anyone have to give in to the Flood? Our immune systems fight viruses and bacteria for a reason you know, does that make them bad for resisting?
FIrst thing first you are not who you were anymore. You are now a convert, like converting religion, so you will do whatever is in your power to help it, but as you are now part of the hivemind, you follow what it says. A thousand voices speaking as one, each seeing what is there and what is not, and shall determine how to move forward according to the situations.
But you do not FREELY convert, you are forcibly converted. And what is your reward? Nothingness, eternal nothingness. The Gravemind may have your memories and experiences, but who says you become an active part? I can torture somebody and get information they know and then toss them aside, something we saw happen to Keyes, Regret and many others.
Question is, what was the torture. Was it the fear of becomming part of it, was the initiation painfull. Or is it the fear of losing individuality. You are no more fighting for yourself and your selfish desires do not control you but you will do everything for your species. The one you have converted to.
Why don't we ask Keyes or Cortana?
Keyes was brutally psychologically tortured, physically tortured and his memories were taken from him as he tried to hang on. The Proto-Gravemind even states it just wants "everything" and that all of his emotions and memories are "now ours", not his to share with them, simply theirs.
As for Cortana, even though she was an AI, the Gravemind was able to psychically abuse her and force her to feel being infected as he placed her in the memory of an alien being who was infected.
So yes, it is physical and psychological torture to FORCE you to assimilate.
Is it or are you now just a convert. People will say when one switches side he/she was brainwashed yet the defenders say that he/she was converted. For the other it was coercion but for the side the convert is now on it is self sacrifice. Plus they do not live in their body anymore but live in the gravemind in eternal bliss, singing the tune of the gravemind. Their body was just a host for their thought process.
Where has it been stated you live in eternal bliss with the Gravemind? And even if you do, we know it can end at any moment when it forces you to relive being infected. My point above still stands.
First thing first what is alive, and are they being tortured forever. That is what is the question. Do they when they join the song, become part of the band, and sing joyfully, in bliss. Is the torture still existing or does it disappear after sometime.
After seeing the memory of an alien being being infected once more simply to get information out of Cortana, I don't see the bliss in that.
Cannot remember where have to read the book again, but i remember that to some the TO was the last of its kind of precursors. Also how the precursors were defeated looks impossible if their structures were indestructable.
The Halos were able to destroy their structures. The Precursors may be near-gods, but they were still flesh and blood and easily killable. The mythical Organon may he an answer too.
Also the forerunners did not have the halos then, and even if they used the weapons of the precursors there would have been failsafe. Only solution is that someone intervened.
Why?
Could they have not returned later with a military might to purify them.
Why when the Flood presents an option just as effective as a military?
Because for me its mainly the question of what the precursors were. Why would they imprison one of their kind, what did he do to cause this. This one looks to be the creator of the flood. So would that not mean there was a clear disagreement on how to tackle the uprising. One wanted to use the flood, while the others did not like it, and thought it was too evil.
Or the Timeless One was placed there to put their plans in motion. After all, it tells humans how to "cure" the Flood and then reveals that there is no immunity. He says humans will be tested next and so humans are preserved and Forerunners are finally taken out of the picture. If it requires the TO's sacrifice, so be it, he mentions a "child" rising from his proverbial ashes.
I got to back it up more but i firmly believe the only way the precursors were killed was due to a civil war between two factions of precursors. For me this was due to the fight over how to handle the forerunner rebellion. I believe that one side tried to start the flood, but the others seeing this and in horror tried to stop it. They imprisoned the one surviving but forced to leave due to some drastic problems, before ending interrogation.
Yes, you need to back it up because nothing supports that in the book aside your own speculation.
Also the idea that the forerunners were made on the looks of precursors yet the one we find looks different.
The Precursors made every race in the galaxy and everyone looks evil. They don't have to make anyone in their exact image.
For me that is interesting, cause could it not mean that the TO tested the flood on itself, and tried to use it to gain knowledge. A weapon to absorb the forerunners, and find out as much as they can by controlling their mind.
Or it used the Flood to further the Precursors overall plans, to guide it and control it.
The others did not like it, and attacked the group trying to use it. The group that created it quickly hid a small piece of their samples outside of the galaxy. While they were killed off. This war hurt the precursors and after the ones that created the spores were killed and all the labs destroyed they left, noticing the damage their war had created.
Provide evidence.