Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: If you could improve Halo PC/H2V...

What changes would you make to improve the quality of the games that we have today? It can range from anything such as game mechanics, flaws, missing features or even from a technical standpoint (but lets not get too carried away with H2V..).

I made a similar thread in the CE forum which has been fairly successful so far so I thought it would be interesting to see everyones opinions.

For me, I would like to have seen a better netcode for Halo PC, as it does ward off newcomers with a steep learning curve. However, this does mean that Halo PC's MP can be deemed to be quite skillful as players master the lead etc. I'd also like to have seen the proper FOV of 90 rather than Halo PC's zoomed 70. Yes we do have tools to change this but I don't think the Hud scales correctly? (reticule etc, could be wrong however).

For H2V, my big gripe with the game was the way the mouse and keyboard was actually inferior to the 360 controller. That should NEVER happen in a PC FPS. Halo 2 had its time on the Xbox, so why give controller users such an assist to the point where using a mouse and keyboard isn't as effective. So really, less aim assist for controllers would have been nice (in mp anyway).

So, what are your improvements?

  • 06.11.2012 5:58 AM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Halo Combat Evolved PC:
1) I would have liked co-op mode.
2) Ofcourse a better netcode.
3) More updates to possibly fix the netcode if that's even possible.
4) Updates to add more screen resolutions for larger monitors if that's even possible.

Halo 2 PC:
1) It should have been made solely by Bungie.
2) Better support.
3) Updates to fix the problems with the game such as low FPS, mouse lag...etc.
4) No product key usage limit.
5) Not Windows Vista exclusive when it first came out.

  • 06.11.2012 8:22 AM PDT
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For Halo PC:

- A better netcode

- FoV slider instead of any fixed FoV

- For it to release with HEK instead of splitting the community

- True mod support like Valve games with in game downloading through joining servers

- For Gearbox to not ruin weapon balance by throwing the new power weapons in each map. Yes, I know that you can opt for the classic version but pretty much everyone ignores that. It's obvious they didn't truly care about map balance when just chucking those power weapons in...

For Halo 2 Vista

- Better dedicated server tools

- A much better HEK

- Fixed mouse controls

- Better optimizaton so that my computer that runs Battlefield 3 at max just fine won't have framerate issues on a game that originally released in 2004

- No aim assist on the controller (or less)

- An FoV slider

- More graphical/performance options

- Better in game downloads for maps/mods

- Mod support past just downloading maps

- Optional Games for Windows Live.


By the way, yes, when you use FoV adjustment programs the HUD is most likely not adjusted with it. If you use OpenSauce it is, though.

Posted by: Barnacle_Blast
Halo 2 PC:
1) It should have been made solely by Bungie.
Do you think Halo PC should have been as well or are you fine with Gearbox?

[Edited on 06.11.2012 8:28 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2012 8:22 AM PDT

Something smells fishy...


Posted by: Dr Syx[/quote]

Posted by: Barnacle_Blast
Halo 2 PC:
1) It should have been made solely by Bungie.
Do you think Halo PC should have been as well or are you fine with Gearbox?

I'm not 100 percent sure. But if I somehow had a choice back then to pick who made Halo Combat Evolved PC I would have picked Bungie.

  • 06.11.2012 8:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: Barnacle_Blast
I'm not 100 percent sure. But if I somehow had a choice back then to pick who made Halo Combat Evolved PC I would have picked Bungie.
It's just that they were too hard at work on Halo 2 at the time. If they would have sacrificed more of their development team to port Halo to PC both Halo 2 and Halo PC would have turned out much worse. Same thing with them working on Halo 3 when it comes to porting Halo 2.

In my opinion, Gearbox was fine for porting it over. They're definitely respectable but it's a shame Microsoft's decisions crippled it. Gearbox did help a little by releasing Custom Edition, though.

In terms of Hired Gun, they should have hired another development team instead of whatever that was. Halo 2 Vista was really just a giant advertisement to push PC gamers towards GFWL for PC gaming... It's just too bad they didn't realize we're smarter than that.

  • 06.11.2012 9:29 AM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Barnacle_Blast
I'm not 100 percent sure. But if I somehow had a choice back then to pick who made Halo Combat Evolved PC I would have picked Bungie.
It's just that they were too hard at work on Halo 2 at the time. If they would have sacrificed more of their development team to port Halo to PC both Halo 2 and Halo PC would have turned out much worse. Same thing with them working on Halo 3 when it comes to porting Halo 2.

In my opinion, Gearbox was fine for porting it over. They're definitely respectable but it's a shame Microsoft's decisions crippled it. Gearbox did help a little by releasing Custom Edition, though.

In terms of Hired Gun, they should have hired another development team instead of whatever that was. Halo 2 Vista was really just a giant advertisement to push PC gamers towards GFWL for PC gaming... It's just too bad they didn't realize we're smarter than that.

It's just my opinion. But I just believe since it was Bungie's game that they might have made it better. I'm not denying that Gearbox still did a pretty good job.

Yeah and the Hired Gun thing was a joke. I agree with you there.

  • 06.11.2012 9:43 AM PDT

well damnation needs some sort of railing. more people need to play. more people need to get better.

  • 06.11.2012 11:51 PM PDT

Agree more or less with everything that has been said thus far. It's interesting to see what others think would improve the games :)

  • 06.12.2012 4:04 AM PDT
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Halo PC:

-should have fixed the instantaneous revert when dying. There are times where I die a great death then immediately get reverted to last checkpoint
-save checkpoint. CMT Spv 3 did this quite well, though I don't know if it requires preset in maps
-clean clutter. CMT Spv 3 had an option to delete dead bodies
-hud customization. CMT Spv 3 allows the entire hud to be removed and Anniversary's Malfunction removes 1 element randomly but I'd like to be able to determine what to get rid of. Malfunction was an unnecessary waste of skull slot.
-fov adjust (I know that there's a way to do it but I'd like it in-game)
-Anti-aliasing (I know that there's a way to do it but I'd like it in-game)

Halo 2 Vista:

-fixed crouch when using mouse and keyboard
-fixed Spectre passenger seats (from my experience, friendly AI refuse to get in the left seat of certain Spectres)
-less buggy game in general. I made armies of Councilors but when I went on a certain moving platform, tossed a grenade, my controls bugged out and I ran off. And even when I wasn't on the moving platform, I lost control of my biped and almost ran off. I'm certain I wasn't pressing down on the movement controls in those moments, other than when I resisted
-better AI support. Sadly, H2 was the first Halo to place more emphasis on graphics. The draw distance was small, the enemy AI frequently got removed if you outdistanced them, AI rarely appear in cutscenes
-better Tartarus boss battle. What a stupid design to put the death barrier right below the lowest platform. Elites fall off, they crouch and die yet the 4 Hunters I brought from previous areas will survive and can go back up the lift! It is also annoying how Johnson's more like a scenery item (very heavy, impossible to push)
-fov adjust. The one in H2 Vista is even smaller than in the Xbox version IIRC
-auto-save checkpoint option or even better, a checkpoint menu like in Halo PC. I disliked that I had to save and quit instead of just saving a checkpoint and accessing it from a menu
-better modding support. When you compare Gravemind to Eschaton, there is no comparison. Eschaton gives you nearly full control. Gravemind's unfinished and does not work well with H2 Vista's animated background.

[Edited on 06.12.2012 7:05 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2012 7:02 AM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.

online co-op for both games

  • 06.12.2012 4:54 PM PDT


Posted by: path1k
online co-op for both games

Shock120 made a somewhat good co-op mod for Halo 2 Vista that does actually work for most of the Arbiter levels. Check that out.

However, co-op should have been implemented. Given the time the developers had when porting the games, it shouldn't have been too much hassle (less so in Halo 2's case)

  • 06.12.2012 4:59 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.


Posted by: Wilis_kid
Shock120 made a somewhat good co-op mod for Halo 2 Vista that does actually work for most of the Arbiter levels. Check that out.
oh i'll check it out... in 878 days!
hahaha

  • 06.13.2012 6:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: new42o
well damnation needs some sort of railing. more people need to play. more people need to get better.
Oh, you!

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-better AI support. Sadly, H2 was the first Halo to place more emphasis on graphics.
I wasn't aware that Halo had a proud history of focusing so hard on AI over graphics before the second installment to the series. I always thought graphics was one of the driving forces throughout development and AI was reduced to an amount people that I could count with one hand...

[Edited on 06.13.2012 9:14 PM PDT]

  • 06.13.2012 9:08 PM PDT

This is actually the stupidest thing ever posted on B.net:

Posted by: the omega man117
Why does everyone hate Halo 2? Maybe its because its the worst game ever next to mario.

I would want Halo PC to have the Quickmatch feature that Halo 2 Vista has to offer.

This is the one feature in Halo 2 Vista that really makes picking up the game worth while. It really brings memories back from Halo 2 Xbox Matchmaking. I mean, it searches like Halo 2 Xbox Matchmaking, but it is even better! The Quickmatch feature randomly slaps you into a server, so why even bother browsing the server list for games when Quickmatch can do all the work for you!?

  • 06.13.2012 9:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Super PolarBear
I would want Halo PC to have the Quickmatch feature that Halo 2 Vista has to offer.

This is the one feature in Halo 2 Vista that really makes picking up the game worth while. It really brings memories back from Halo 2 Xbox Matchmaking. I mean, it searches like Halo 2 Xbox Matchmaking, but it is even better! The Quickmatch feature randomly slaps you into a server, so why even bother browsing the server list for games when Quickmatch can do all the work for you!?
I already used "Oh, you!" for new420 so what am I supposed to use now!?

  • 06.14.2012 12:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-better AI support. Sadly, H2 was the first Halo to place more emphasis on graphics.
I wasn't aware that Halo had a proud history of focusing so hard on AI over graphics before the second installment to the series. I always thought graphics was one of the driving forces throughout development and AI was reduced to an amount people that I could count with one hand...
This vs. this vs. this doc.

Granted, the first video was done in Anniversary, but even in the original, it only lagged when the AI were firing their guns. No particle loss at all and dropped weapons & dead bodies did not disappear unless you did not have them in your sight. Note this is the largest scripted battle-collection in CE.

The second video shows the largest scripted battle-collection in H2. No particle loss but when there are too many AI against a scenery object, it will get deleted.

Then there's this. When there's more than 10 AI desiring to go to Tartarus, regardless of the number of AI who have lost that desire (the Councilors army), the particles begin disappearing. Eventually, Keyes and Tartarus and the 4 Hunters I brought will be deloaded. It should be noted that this is H2 Vista on the lowest setting of graphics.

The third video shows the largest scripted battle-collection in H3... Though the amount of lag is considerably better than in CE, the battle is not as enjoyable. This is a largely territorial battle, with only Chieftains, Hunters, and berserking Brutes following you to places unknown.

Finally, there's Reach, with it's disappearing dead bodies and weapons and requirement for a Xbox 360 hard drive installation.

CE megabattles were numerous. Checkpoints were reliable. Combat was not a chore and it was not restricted to Easy difficulty. Such large battles are nearly nonexistent in subsequent games due to unwelcome interference from the game. The game used to have the AI go to other places.

Now the AI are relegated to certain locations and if they should leave those areas, they will be subject to deletion (in H2, outdistancing enemies and sometimes Johnson will delete them), death (bringing a certain Brute on The Ark to the area with the destroyed mongoose and warthog will kill him, leaving the Covies that spawn there alone will result in them being killed off after the FuD arrives), or reluctance (you can't have 4 Hunters on The Ark). The AI will be treated like outcasts, no scripting. Hence, the lack of AI support.

Even this is a mere dot on the map compared to CE's battles. It was excruciating getting these 19 Brutes. More than often, they drove off the cliff.

I had to stick the Prowlers to get the Brutes out but driving it away (I wanted it intact) so they don't try to get back in and drive off while having to deal with the possibility of friendly AI support (as I wanted all friendly AI in this area) spawning out of nowhere was just too much! Due to the lack of checkpoints and bad AI driving, I had to go through this every single time I've made a mistake. Hours of driving/pushing/meleeing AI that do not belong in this location into the best position for an ambush only to make 1 mistake and starting over again.

[Edited on 06.14.2012 1:59 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2012 1:54 PM PDT
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There's definitely no need for all that information. My point was simply that you can't accuse Bungie of focusing so much harder on graphics than AI then say Halo: Combat Evolved was the opposite. Everyone knows they spent an extremely low amount of resources on AI for Halo: Combat Evolved.

Also, I'd like to add that you're judging how well the game runs in situations where you're breaking it. Absolutely idiotic to actually judge a developer on how a game's performance is when you've created a situation hardly anyone else will ever create. (Nor are you meant to) That's like smashing a microwave with a sledgehammer then judging the manufacturer when it doesn't work accordingly.

[Edited on 06.14.2012 2:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2012 2:07 PM PDT
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So it was just chance, just like the button combos?

What about the AI possessing diverse reactions? In H2 and onward, the only emotions they show when stuck with a grenade is panic, berserking, or nothing at all.

Surely it was design. Surely people have noticed AI movement. That's how they find these things. When they explore.

Are you suggesting it was never their intent people take their games and make them what they want? I refuse to believe that Bungie was always like that.

Bungie has deviated. The checkpoint system was a promising implementation and then it got stale. Exploration was suppressed with pushed-in invisible barriers and countdowns. It was limited to Co-op.

[Edited on 06.14.2012 2:23 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2012 2:21 PM PDT
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It's just that the campaigns became linear so therefore some parts of the AI changed. They designed them around how they knew people would experience them. It's not like they thought someone was going to create things like councillor armies to attack tartarus.

When it comes to leveling graphics and performance, any good developer would bring out the best in both. They're going to balance it out so that the performance is solid in a reasonable scope. They're not going to sacrifice graphical power so that you could gather an enormous army. Less than 1% of people who will play the game will ever even try to do that while 100% will be experiencing the graphics of the game. It's not really fair to design the game perfectly for that less than 1%. :P

[Edited on 06.14.2012 2:30 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2012 2:28 PM PDT
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True. And you have a good point there. :P

True again I suppose. Then what about options? Don't some Xbox 360 games have options to adjust graphics?

  • 06.14.2012 3:27 PM PDT
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I've never actually played a game on the 360 that gave you graphical options past things like brightness which wouldn't even affect performance. :P

It would be great if they did actually give you options. I'd love to sacrifice some graphical power for more performance.

  • 06.14.2012 3:30 PM PDT

They give you graphic/performance options on the PC due to it being such an open platform and different computers having more or less performance power.

On the 360 everything is prioritized for "optimal" performance. I imagine sacrificing graphic power would output little noticable increase in performance.

  • 06.14.2012 5:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dark Hunter21
On the 360 everything is prioritized for "optimal" performance. I imagine sacrificing graphic power would output little noticable increase in performance.
Actually that's not completely true. If there were performance options I could get the game to run at over 60 FPS instead of 30 FPS. Turn down things like bloom, shadows, texture quality, etc.

  • 06.14.2012 5:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx
I've never actually played a game on the 360 that gave you graphical options past things like brightness which wouldn't even affect performance. :P

It would be great if they did actually give you options. I'd love to sacrifice some graphical power for more performance.
If I'm not mistaken, some games allow players to adjust the level of gore. Also, what about individual horizontal and vertical sensitivities? I'm certain there are games that have that. Why not Halo? It's always been 1 sensitivity setting (except in PC).

Same here!

  • 06.14.2012 6:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx
If there were performance options I could get the game to run at over 60 FPS instead of 30 FPS.


In Reach, you could go from 10 FPS to 20 FPS.

  • 06.14.2012 7:50 PM PDT

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