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Subject: Looks like we are getting forced to match make in Halo 3 too!
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You must be joking? Or you haven't really played any other games. I've been playing FPS for about a decade and Halo 2 has the worst online capabilities that I've ever seen. It's the biggest live game right now and doesn't even support clan play in matchmaking ... that tells you a lot.



It was taken out because barely anyone played it.

EDIT: Damnit, too slow again.

[Edited on 6/11/2006]

  • 06.11.2006 8:02 AM PDT
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Oh well, it got the point across.

  • 06.11.2006 8:05 AM PDT
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I personally think there is room for both... maybe. Personally I dig the matchmaking. It is simple and i know what i am getting into. I get so tired in other games of joing what looks like an interesting custom game only to discover they are just messin around or have some weird rules that I now have to learn on the fly.

But if they wanted to have a seperate list that you can cruise to look for games... fine, whatever.

  • 06.11.2006 8:20 AM PDT
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I agree with Ashwalker. The best way to have the best of both worlds would be to keep MM, but also make custom games open to everybody ,(ability to search 4 them) both with the ability to be ranked. It could sort of be like PD0's Dark Ops and Deathmatch modes. You could have classic H2 MM, and then the NEW H3 Custom Game/Public Servers which could play like games similar to CS or Wolfenstein where you just play round after round. Personally i think this way is alot better (read my earlier post n this discussion) but at least this way everybody's happy.

  • 06.11.2006 8:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achernar UK
This is just awful!
I cant believe that matchmaking will be the basis of the MP mode in Halo 3 (see this weekly update).
Again this forces us to play game types that we dont want to play.
If only they will add the option to create youre own public server with your own game types.
Bad news indeed for all us non-mainstreamers.


The matchmaking system for the Xbox 360's Xbox Live is much better than the matchmaking system for the original Xbox's Xbox Live.

  • 06.11.2006 8:46 AM PDT
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A Guide to Networking, Matchmaking, and Host in Halo (HBO mirror)

Bungie Friends and Family invitee, and sender of "random emails" about networking.

Custom games being ranked is a retarded idea.

The idea of being able to search for customs for UNRANKED games is fine. Keep MM for ranked.

  • 06.11.2006 8:46 AM PDT
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Matchmaking AND public custom servers are needed!

You can join any server you plz, whatever map. If you select the server, they should give you a quick "flashcard" telling you the basic statistics for the gametype. Once you select the server you can play it as long as you wish, without the game closing every match.

Also, if a modder joins, go to this menu

ADMIN

Kick
Freeze Player (for those who want to punish them and shoot em up and torture them :D)
Ban
New Game
Restart

I cant think of other options, but thats the basic admin menu. And for the punishment options, it will ask "Are you sure?" and list the player your about to ban, to ensure admins dont ban the wrong guy. So H3 need matchmaking and public custom server with very good and user friendly admin powers. This way no one is complaining because you can use both.

  • 06.11.2006 8:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: LiQu1d
Here are the #1 arguements why MM is not as good as being able to create public servers which people could join(Like in Counterstrike or Castle Wolfenstein): (NE 1 who disagrees..well i don't give a -blam!-)

-No More Cheating: If someone cheats in a particular room, well then just quit, let the cheaters play by themselves.

-Play gametypes that you want, not randomly generated ones that just suck ass.

-Join games alot faster. MM can take a hell of a long time when it cant find the right people.

-This eliminates the quitting problem as if someone quits no sweat, more people can join in.

-The party system was cool, but i think with it, you spend ALOT more time in the lobby setting up a game then actually paying. Having rounds, over and over again, lie in CS or Wolf TOW allows for alot more gameplay, and you can still play with your friends.

-Clanmatches would be alot easier, as there would be no need to add the other team (For stuff like CAL or MLG), you could simply seacrh for there server.

-Lag would significantly decreae, as only people with good connections would be able to host games. Also bungie could make there own servers which people could join that would be lag free.

-The above point could also possibly eliminate host advantage from H3, making it alot better, as having weaker weapons while being offhost makes no sense, and no other MP enabled game plays like that.

These are my top reasons why matchmaking and the party system just aren't that good. No criticism on H2 cuz it was an awesome game, its just H3 could be a hell of a lot better, thats all.

Okay, it would be one thing to have a custom search browser, as well. But they should still have a matchmaking function. If they didn't, frankly, I wouldn't be playing the game anymore. It's a good game, but I pretty much only play matchmaking.

  • 06.11.2006 8:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: One One Seven
Custom games being ranked is a retarded idea.

The idea of being able to search for customs for UNRANKED games is fine. Keep MM for ranked.

My thoughts exactly. If Bungie feels like adding it, whatever. But Bungie's not dumb enough to have ranked customs...I mean, come on...it just wouldn't work.

  • 06.11.2006 8:51 AM PDT

Posted by: Achernar UK
This is just awful!
I cant believe that matchmaking will be the basis of the MP mode in Halo 3 (see this weekly update).
Again this forces us to play game types that we dont want to play.
If only they will add the option to create youre own public server with your own game types.
Bad news indeed for all us non-mainstreamers.




non-mainstreamers as in "THE MINORITY".

Matchmaking is the best thing since sliced bread as far as I'm concerned. The fact that I don't get to pick the level is far outweighed by the fact that you can actually find games in matchmaking with even times and relatively even talent.

Server based games always suck because you can never get a fair game. The teams are never even, the skill level is always completely lopsided, and the person who started the server and sets all the conditions usually packs all the best players on his team. How the hell is that any real type of competition? Have you not played serverlist games like Ghost Recon? They are just noob ownage fests with one side never losing. It's completely weak.

Halo 2 was the first time I ever played an online game where you actually had to compete to win rather than just making sure you were on the team with the server host. It's also the first time you could actually start and end a game with the same 8 people on a consistent basis.

  • 06.11.2006 8:52 AM PDT

Posted by: LiQu1d
Here are the #1 arguements why MM is not as good as being able to create public servers which people could join(Like in Counterstrike or Castle Wolfenstein): (NE 1 who disagrees..well i don't give a -blam!-)

-No More Cheating: If someone cheats in a particular room, well then just quit, let the cheaters play by themselves.

-Play gametypes that you want, not randomly generated ones that just suck ass.

-Join games alot faster. MM can take a hell of a long time when it cant find the right people.

-This eliminates the quitting problem as if someone quits no sweat, more people can join in.

-The party system was cool, but i think with it, you spend ALOT more time in the lobby setting up a game then actually paying. Having rounds, over and over again, lie in CS or Wolf TOW allows for alot more gameplay, and you can still play with your friends.

-Clanmatches would be alot easier, as there would be no need to add the other team (For stuff like CAL or MLG), you could simply seacrh for there server.

-Lag would significantly decreae, as only people with good connections would be able to host games. Also bungie could make there own servers which people could join that would be lag free.

-The above point could also possibly eliminate host advantage from H3, making it alot better, as having weaker weapons while being offhost makes no sense, and no other MP enabled game plays like that.

These are my top reasons why matchmaking and the party system just aren't that good. No criticism on H2 cuz it was an awesome game, its just H3 could be a hell of a lot better, thats all.




There wouldn't be no more cheating. People would just be more judicious about it and make it less obvious but equally as effective. There are TONS and TONS of cheaters on serverlist based games.

We do play gametypes we want right now, it's call Team Slayer, Team Skirmish, Team Swat ect ect ect. and if none of those work for you......Custom Game!

I find games WAY WAY WAY quicker in Matchmaking than I do in serverside games. Because you spend half of your time in serverside games waiting for the list of games to be search, then the other half jumping into the server and realizing it sucks due to team stacking by the host and backing out to go find another. Ghost Recon has pretty much proven that theory.

It doesn't eliminate the quitting problem, because now there is no defined start or end to a match when people can jump in and out as needed. Now you have an guaranteed unbalanced teams problem....just like you do in Custom Games now where it takes a fricking police man to make sure people make even teams.

The Party system is the best thing ever. It takes ages to get hooked up with friends in other games. "Ok you on....yeah, I'm joining your server right now....oh crap it's full, quit out and find another and then I'll join....ok this one is sweet....damn the host is team stacking....ok quit out and find another....are you there yet?" I should have to break out my phone just to setup an online game with Friends.

Lag would not decrease because now ANYBODY can setup a game. Have you even played other Xbox Live games? Atleast matchmaking filters through connections and assign hosts to the best candidate in most instances. Frankly, one of my biggest credits to Halo 2 is that it has the least lag of any game I've played on Xbox Live. The only time Halo 2 really lags is when the host downloads a huge file on his computer while playing Halo 2 or if somebody deliberately bridges someone else host who ought not to be hosting.

You can't eliminate the host advantage, it's a matter of physics and there is no way around it.



  • 06.11.2006 9:02 AM PDT
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You seem to go to bad servers. I usually have even teams, it usually isn't a n00bfest, I never saw that the admins team is best, you cant find servers that are good. You better work on that. BF2 had ranking! And it was public servers only! It seemed to work fine. BUT LIKE I SAID!! USE BOTH!! CUSTOM AND MATCHMAKING!! Custom server lovers are not a minority, matchmaking is all they can play in h2 so what choice do they have?

Just put both in!!

  • 06.11.2006 9:02 AM PDT
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The fact is we need both MM and the public server option if the audience is to be satisfied.
A gamer that has freedom is a happy gamer. The freedom to choose what game he/she plays, for how long, with whom.
All these aspects are to be taken into account when assembling a multiplayer structure.
We have seen multliple fps's based on multiple structures that allow for player freedom when choosing his/her's opponents and game types, be they ranked/unranked, matchmade, or not; Unreal, BF2, FEAR, GRAW, Halo PC, etc.
It would be wise for Bungie to take note.


Oh... and for the person that used 'Minority' as a derogatory term when refering to my post, just remember that 'Majority' can also be used in a derogatory manner. I for one wont stoop to your level and elaborate, but im sure at some point in your life you'll come to appreciate the subtle facets of both terms.

  • 06.11.2006 9:15 AM PDT
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If they were to open a REAL optimatch (public server list), you would see the popularity of MM decrease. Decrease so much that it would be as popular as the clan match option.

I don't see how people can just sit idle by getting cheated on in MM and think the system is fine.

  • 06.11.2006 9:28 AM PDT
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They should make a custom game browser!!!! Ever have a sick day and play early in the morning? Almost all my friends are on late at night or afternoon. Sometimes I wish I could just play a non ranked Snipers game. Make another option under "party privacy", such as "Public". When this is selected, the gamertag should be listed online with the current game type to be played or is being played. There should also be a host controlled limit for the number of players that can enter without having to boot people. I also believe that more people with similar interests would meet eachother, and enjoy the game better without having to remove people on your friends list. The new 360 feedback system can also help you not run into "undesirables" in the "Public" custom gaming lists.

P.S. : What about a co-op campaign mode (as much as I hate to say it: G.R.A.W. -like)?!?!???? Or how about a survival game (where the AI just keeps spitting out more and more Covenant or Human troops, and all you pray for is a moment to catch your breath)!!!!???!!!???!!!!
One more thing. Ranked matches should be in MM only. It would be even easier to cheat and stack teams one way or the other. I've seen it in GR2 and G.R.A.W. too many times.

H2 RROOOCCCCKKSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

( despite all u poor cheaters, SEEK THERAPY )

ALWAYS REMEMBER:
" If it came out the other end, it would have been a burp. "

[Edited on 6/11/2006]

  • 06.11.2006 10:09 AM PDT
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of course the moment someone questions the current method of playing multiplayer, the people who fear change or progress jump out and scream insults.

I find MM to be a very good system and i enjoy it very much, but since when does a server list for custom games automatically mean MM goes away? you can have both in the same game. I mean i dont know a lot about viddeo game coding or how online play is created, but I dont think it would be too diffficult to just make a list of all the servers. it could list server map, gametype name, number of players, ping, and who created the server.

and for everyone saying things like "go get more friends", I would just like to inform people that the chances of 16 people on your friends list being online at the same time is so slim that it is nearly impossible. I can barely scrounge up 4, maybe 5 players off my friends list. plus, many of my friends dont play halo 2 much, they play other games.

I think it would be in everyone's best interest if bungie put in a server list so we can get 16 player games going more easily.

  • 06.11.2006 10:17 AM PDT
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My only problem with having both servers and MM is that both would be underpopulated. It would split the community in half: that is NOT a good thing. I think(and believe they will) just keep MM, but improve it.

  • 06.11.2006 1:46 PM PDT

[sarcasm]
I think that Halo 3's multiplayer system is going to be exactly like Halo 2's.
[/sarcasm]

  • 06.11.2006 2:08 PM PDT
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i was pissed when i found out we didnt get Optimatch in halo 2 and i still am , I want to pick the game i want to play and i hope they add optimatch in halo 3

  • 06.11.2006 2:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Dwiggy
Posted by: OpMED
Halo 2 made matchmaking. Every game I play now, I judge it a little less because they don't support gameplay with Live as well as Halo 2.

Whomever said it first, I agree. It is inventive, and it sets this game away from the rest. Up on a mountain. With a big gun.


You must be joking? Or you haven't really played any other games. I've been playing FPS for about a decade and Halo 2 has the worst online capabilities that I've ever seen. It's the biggest live game right now and doesn't even support clan play in matchmaking ... that tells you a lot.




You've got to be smoking crack. Halo 2 has the worst online capabilities just because the got rid of Clan Matches (that nobody played)? This is a joke right?

Should we just ignore the fact that Bungie brought the first viable matchmaking system to Xbox Live along with an amazingly intuitive party system and friends list interfaces. Not only that, but they figured out a good way to auto assign host based on whoever had the best connection AND figured out how to restore a game when the host drops.

Show me one original Xbox Live game that can even touch that.

Halo 2's online is so incredibly intuitive and userfriendly that it puts other games to shame. I've judged every game since then against that benchline and I've had a hard time finding anything that is as slick.

Not only that, but Halo 2's matchmaking at the time it came out was pretty much the only system in recent memory that actually enables people to find matches with relatively even teams both in size and skill. Halo 2 is WAY more competitive than other online games for that reason.

When you go play a game like Ghost Recon your fate is already determined from the moment you enter the room. Hosts setup rooms, bring all their friends in on one side, place all the noobs on the other side, and then just have an ownage fest for 15 minutes straight. How the heck is that any challenge or fun?

That's why Halo 2 has been the #1 online game for the past 1.5 years. 300,000 unique players in the past 24 hours can't be all be wrong. Look at any other Xbox Live game released in 2004 and I doubt the current number of people online is even close to 1,000 people. The facts speak for themself.

  • 06.11.2006 4:57 PM PDT

Posted by: A06
i was pissed when i found out we didnt get Optimatch in halo 2 and i still am , I want to pick the game i want to play and i hope they add optimatch in halo 3



Optimatch sucks, always has and always will. All you end up with is one team stacked with all the hosts friends and the other team stacked with unknowing noobs who get owned for 15 minutes straight. It takes forever to find a truly competitive match in Optimatch games. It's rediculous.

Not only that, but since you can join and leave a game whenever, you don't get nearly the same level of "buy-in" from the players on your team towards winning.

  • 06.11.2006 4:59 PM PDT
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this might have been said, but i dont wanna search for it in these posts.........but think about this. If you have public servers, that eliminates the entire ranking system because everyone would magically become 50s because they join games with friends and tell their friends to lose. or they join a game of noobs and keep owning the same people over and over and over. i personally like the matchmaking system because it lets me play people of my own skill level (usually) and it is really fun because you have to actually be good at different gametypes to win most of the games.

  • 06.11.2006 5:11 PM PDT
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the last time i checked halo 2 was still the top rated xbox live game out there so dont say that matchmaking isnt good if it wasnt for matchmaking you probally wouldnt hav any friends on your friends list besides the people you actually no in person so stop complaining

  • 06.11.2006 5:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achernar UK
Uh... duh... you think?!

The problem is Einstein that custom games are not public in matchmaking, that was my point.

What we need are public game servers with custom game types that can be openly accessed by players without having to form parties or trawl through friends lists for available players.
Tje probelem is is that Halo 2 already has a large fanbase, Halo 3 will have twice or more as much. and think, likely 1/20 of those could be cheaters. And on a large scale, that's a lot of cheaters. So you could dive straight in a server and trash it with standbying, bridging, etc. With Custom games you have control over who's coming in. Plus servers cost a lot of money. And for PC it was horrible because as I remember the multiple servers often caused lag. Because you need your server regitered, and the speed of the game depends on your connection.

  • 06.11.2006 5:16 PM PDT

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