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  • Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk

They just seem like O.N.I goons in expensive armour, carrying a title they're not worthy to hold. They seem like O.N.I's private army.

I wonder what John will think of them.

  • 06.21.2012 1:06 PM PDT
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As we don't know anything about the level of augmentation that these new Spartans have received I don't think any of us are in a position to judge. Yet.

As for the Chief he will treat them like any other non Spartan II squad mate.

  • 06.21.2012 1:12 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: wcd45
As we don't know anything about the level of augmentation that these new Spartans have received I don't think any of us are in a position to judge. Yet.

As for the Chief he will treat them like any other non Spartan II squad mate.


So ignoring them...

  • 06.21.2012 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Onomatopoeia

Posted by: wcd45
As we don't know anything about the level of augmentation that these new Spartans have received I don't think any of us are in a position to judge. Yet.

As for the Chief he will treat them like any other non Spartan II squad mate.


So ignoring them...

Nope, he'll give them a rocket launcher and watch them jump onto the Warthog's turret while the guy with an AR jumps in the passenger seat. At least that's what always happens to me.

[Edited on 06.21.2012 1:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2012 1:18 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
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Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.

  • 06.21.2012 1:54 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.


I kinda hope they're an enemy faction.

  • 06.21.2012 1:59 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.

There's no reason why the Spartan-IVs can't equal the Spartan-IIs.

The S-IVs are handpicked from the very best of UNSC Special Forces, trained even more (on top of their special ops background) and then augmented, and given access to MJOLNIR GEN2.

You can't use the years of experience thing to support SPARTAN-IIs because the S-IVs have that themselves - and the S-IVs have spent years prior fighting the Covenant without MJOLNIR or augmentations.

That's not to say the S-IVs will be better or equivelant, but there's a good chance they will be.

  • 06.21.2012 2:04 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

So veterans of the Human-Covenant War from all the branches of the UNSC automatically makes them ONI goons? That's a fair, unbiased opinion.

  • 06.21.2012 2:16 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: CoolCJ24

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.

There's no reason why the Spartan-IVs can't equal the Spartan-IIs.

The S-IVs are handpicked from the very best of UNSC Special Forces, trained even more (on top of their special ops background) and then augmented, and given access to MJOLNIR GEN2.

You can't use the years of experience thing to support SPARTAN-IIs because the S-IVs have that themselves - and the S-IVs have spent years prior fighting the Covenant without MJOLNIR or augmentations.

That's not to say the S-IVs will be better or equivelant, but there's a good chance they will be.

Tell me how many of thsoe spartan 4s have gone hand to hand with an elite zealot. How many have snapped elites necks, how many have hijacked vehicles??? And their spec ops training is still like candy land comapred to what 2s and 3s hav egone through. Hiding behind a rock praying 1 plasma bolt doesn't hit you is vastly diffrence to say what those spartans in halo wars did.

  • 06.21.2012 2:24 PM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.

I don't see why they wouldn't be considered spartans. Considering that they're the pinnacle of the UNSC special forces, meaning that not only do they have years of experience, but they also have expertise, skill, and unit cohesion. I would assume as well that they went through additional training through the S-IV program, giving them even more of these attributes. Coupled with their augmentations, which I would assume are on par with the S-III augmentations (given that only the S-IIs were given the thyroid implants, making them slightly bulkier), I see no reason why they wouldn't be on par with any of the other previous generation of spartan.

  • 06.21.2012 2:24 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
So veterans of the Human-Covenant War from all the branches of the UNSC automatically makes them ONI goons? That's a fair, unbiased opinion.


I personally think they are going to be used for something else. The 2s and 3s were created for a purpose. The 4s seem to lack that.

  • 06.21.2012 2:24 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: CoolCJ24

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.

There's no reason why the Spartan-IVs can't equal the Spartan-IIs.

The S-IVs are handpicked from the very best of UNSC Special Forces, trained even more (on top of their special ops background) and then augmented, and given access to MJOLNIR GEN2.

You can't use the years of experience thing to support SPARTAN-IIs because the S-IVs have that themselves - and the S-IVs have spent years prior fighting the Covenant without MJOLNIR or augmentations.

That's not to say the S-IVs will be better or equivelant, but there's a good chance they will be.

Tell me how many of thsoe spartan 4s have gone hand to hand with an elite zealot. How many have snapped elites necks, how many have hijacked vehicles??? And their spec ops training is still like candy land comapred to what 2s and 3s hav egone through. Hiding behind a rock praying 1 plasma bolt doesn't hit you is vastly diffrence to say what those spartans in halo wars did.


Well, it's good to see that you think so low of your own Halo persona :]

  • 06.21.2012 2:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Onomatopoeia

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
So veterans of the Human-Covenant War from all the branches of the UNSC automatically makes them ONI goons? That's a fair, unbiased opinion.


I personally think they are going to be used for something else. The 2s and 3s were created for a purpose. The 4s seem to lack that.


Covenant remnants...the insurrection returning...no purpose, sure.

  • 06.21.2012 2:28 PM PDT

Spartan IIs will always be the best when compared to IVs I would say that S IIIs in mjolnir are on par with SIIs. ODST/SpeOps training then Spartan training is and will never be the equivalent of being training from 5 purely to fight. Also if all former Spartans are offered a place in the SIV program doesn't that mean any surviving SIIs could be in there I mean what are they going to do, retire?

  • 06.21.2012 3:08 PM PDT

I jieħdu kenn fil Amida Buddha.

Spartan 4s? Hang on, I haven't heard of this.

  • 06.21.2012 3:22 PM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.


It would be premature to call the SIV's as inferior to the other two. The IV's were the best humans that were available, they didn't just pick randome soldiers. The only difference is length of training, but all IV's are seasoned veterans like the II's and III's.

  • 06.21.2012 4:07 PM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: CoolCJ24

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.

There's no reason why the Spartan-IVs can't equal the Spartan-IIs.

The S-IVs are handpicked from the very best of UNSC Special Forces, trained even more (on top of their special ops background) and then augmented, and given access to MJOLNIR GEN2.

You can't use the years of experience thing to support SPARTAN-IIs because the S-IVs have that themselves - and the S-IVs have spent years prior fighting the Covenant without MJOLNIR or augmentations.

That's not to say the S-IVs will be better or equivelant, but there's a good chance they will be.

Tell me how many of thsoe spartan 4s have gone hand to hand with an elite zealot. How many have snapped elites necks, how many have hijacked vehicles??? And their spec ops training is still like candy land comapred to what 2s and 3s hav egone through. Hiding behind a rock praying 1 plasma bolt doesn't hit you is vastly diffrence to say what those spartans in halo wars did.


Well, it's good to see that you think so low of your own Halo persona :]

My stats would say other wise, and besides plasma does hurt, it's like being mualed by a honey badger!

  • 06.21.2012 4:40 PM PDT

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Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

It's not that I think S-IVs are going to be bad soldiers or bad Spartans, I'm just saying that the nature of the program means that you have candidates who haven't been trained as soldiers since childhood. Because of this you have an inferior soldier with a history of his/her own, he/she might have distracting thoughts or a terrible secret or neurosis or bad habits. An S-IV would also just not have the level of experience or quality of experience than a S-II or S-III.

I think they will still be amazing supersoldiers, far superior to an ODST or Marine or Trooper, but I think that besides their technology they won't be anywhere near close to the standards of an S-II or S-III. The abundance of S-IVs and their technology will balance this out.

  • 06.21.2012 4:59 PM PDT


Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.

  • 06.21.2012 5:04 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


I doubt Master Chief would be as shallow as you guys are towards fellow soldiers.

  • 06.21.2012 5:07 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

I view all Spartans after gen 2 as diluting the original product. Just my opinion. I have always viewed them like the 40k Space Marines: the greatest soldiers of mankind held back by the fact there are too few. With the 2s, each death was a significant loss. You trained this soldier for dozens of years and now they are gone. You can't just call for reinforcements. There are no more coming. With the 3s and 4s there are more. A Spartan 4 died? It's a shame, but we can always recruit another. A Spartan 3 died? Don't worry too much, there are still 299 left and there is another batch in the works.

  • 06.21.2012 5:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


The IV's are still selected, but you have the option of turning it down.

Or, you can apply, but the requirements are extreme. Either way you might as well be "chosen."

  • 06.21.2012 5:19 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


The IV's are still selected, but you have the option of turning it down.

Or, you can apply, but the requirements are extreme. Either way you might as well be "chosen."
Yeah but Chief won't see it that way. They weren't the best humanity had (genetic requirements, childhood training, etc). They're simply the best soldiers humanity had avaliable, and decided to make them better.

Basically they weren't molded into Spartans. Only soldiers with increased abilities.

  • 06.21.2012 7:44 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


I doubt Master Chief would be as shallow as you guys are towards fellow soldiers.
It's not like Chief wouldn't help them. But Spartans view taking care of Marines like babysitting.

  • 06.21.2012 7:45 PM PDT

I just expect them to be stronger than ODST's, but weaker than Spartan-II's.

  • 06.21.2012 8:41 PM PDT