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This topic has moved here: Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
  • Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


I doubt Master Chief would be as shallow as you guys are towards fellow soldiers.
It's not like Chief wouldn't help them. But Spartans view taking care of Marines like babysitting.


He respects them as soldiers at least.

That said, the Spartan IV's aren't a liability compared to the Chief like the human soldiers are. They can definitely compare to him, maybe even surpass him in ability (as far as the augments go; technology has improved, who knows).

I doubt he'd treat them any less than any other Spartan, barring the generational differences and John not knowing who any of the IV's are.

Thats part of why I look forward to the possibility of all his old (surviving) SII friends who were roped into the IV program meeting up with him again. It'd make the transition from new to old easier, for both fans and characters alike.

  • 06.21.2012 9:26 PM PDT

I heard once that you can only train up to a certain level of skill, then experience takes over.

The Spartans advantage came from gear and augmentations, not purely training. I don't see why we should just write off top of the line Marines and ODST's as 'pathetic compared to a Spartan 2 or 3' just because they weren't trained from 6 or so years old.

  • 06.21.2012 10:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


I doubt Master Chief would be as shallow as you guys are towards fellow soldiers.
It's not like Chief wouldn't help them. But Spartans view taking care of Marines like babysitting.


It's not a matter of helping them. Your post basically went "Chief will always look down at them." or, "He'll basically act like the ODSTs did at first to Spartans, dislike them and think they are spoiled with gear."

John would probably think of them like he always has thought about others. And share the spartan mindset. "They are skilled, that's what matters. Who cares about how much training they've had compared to me?"

  • 06.21.2012 11:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I don't recall Fred, Kelly or Linda putting down the Spartan-IIIs. Why should they and by association, why should Chief do the same to the Spartan-IVs?

  • 06.21.2012 11:05 PM PDT

The world is not beautiful: And that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty.

~Kino's Journey

until we know exactly what kind of augments and training the IV's get, i think we should hold our judgement.

  • 06.21.2012 11:12 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I don't recall Fred, Kelly or Linda putting down the Spartan-IIIs. Why should they and by association, why should Chief do the same to the Spartan-IVs?


Exactly, the attitude is more like the ODST helljumpers then the Spartans.

  • 06.21.2012 11:19 PM PDT

So I figure now is a good time to bring this up...




Spirit of Fire...remember how Serena was last heard saying "something [had] happened?" Well, they were out preeeettty dang far in respect to Earth's location.

What if what had "happened" had something to do with finding Requiem? Think about it...the crew was in cryo...they didn't age...there are three Spartan IIs on that ship...do the epic calculations.

[Edited on 06.22.2012 12:26 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2012 12:25 AM PDT

Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.

  • 06.22.2012 12:29 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Fred, Linda and Kelly didn't seem to have trouble bonding with the Spartan-IIIs.

  • 06.22.2012 12:32 AM PDT


Posted by: Kyle Knight
So I figure now is a good time to bring this up...




Spirit of Fire...remember how Serena was last heard saying "something [had] happened?" Well, they were out preeeettty dang far in respect to Earth's location.

What if what had "happened" had something to do with finding Requiem? Think about it...the crew was in cryo...they didn't age...there are three Spartan IIs on that ship...do the epic calculations.


Fairly sure 343 has said "F that" to actually finishing the storyline of the Spirit of Fire


Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Um... what?

  • 06.22.2012 12:33 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Kyle Knight
So I figure now is a good time to bring this up...




Spirit of Fire...remember how Serena was last heard saying "something [had] happened?" Well, they were out preeeettty dang far in respect to Earth's location.

What if what had "happened" had something to do with finding Requiem? Think about it...the crew was in cryo...they didn't age...there are three Spartan IIs on that ship...do the epic calculations.


Fairly sure 343 has said "F that" to actually finishing the storyline of the Spirit of Fire


Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Um... what?




OK...I'll make my opinion clearer I suppose.

Nearly all of the Spartans before the Spartan 4 program are scattered or dead. The ones that are alive are rare, powerful, and deserve the title.

Spartan 4s were made after Reach fell...they didn't go through the hell the Spartan 2s and 3s went through. Are they supersoldiers? Sure. Worthy of being Spartans? ehhh


Think back to the actual 300 story. The Spartans were famous for holding their ground, and practically all dying. Creating a new batch of soldiers and calling them Spartans would be unfair...it's like giving them a reputation, when they weren't the ones who deserved it.

  • 06.22.2012 12:40 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Kyle Knight
Spartan 4s were made after Reach fell...they didn't go through the hell the Spartan 2s and 3s went through. Are they supersoldiers? Sure. Worthy of being Spartans? ehhh



Yes, because being a normal human not augmented or wearing powered armor and surviving the Human-Covenant War means absolutely nothing.

  • 06.22.2012 12:41 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Kyle Knight
Spartan 4s were made after Reach fell...they didn't go through the hell the Spartan 2s and 3s went through. Are they supersoldiers? Sure. Worthy of being Spartans? ehhh



Yes, because being a normal human not augmented or wearing powered armor and surviving the Human-Covenant War means absolutely nothing.



That's a good point.

I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking that. I'm just saying that my opinion of them won't be as high as it is for the S2s. Who knows? The game may change my opinion. Until then, I prefer the S2s over any of them. They just feel more worthy of the title.

  • 06.22.2012 12:45 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Kyle Knight

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Kyle Knight
Spartan 4s were made after Reach fell...they didn't go through the hell the Spartan 2s and 3s went through. Are they supersoldiers? Sure. Worthy of being Spartans? ehhh



Yes, because being a normal human not augmented or wearing powered armor and surviving the Human-Covenant War means absolutely nothing.



That's a good point.

I'm not saying you're wrong for thinking that. I'm just saying that my opinion of them won't be as high as it is for the S2s. Who knows? The game may change my opinion. Until then, I prefer the S2s over any of them. They just feel more worthy of the title.


I doubt you'll actually give them a fair evaluation since you already put them down before even seeing what they can do.

[Edited on 06.22.2012 12:55 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2012 12:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Kyle Knight
Think back to the actual 300 story. The Spartans were famous for holding their ground, and practically all dying. Creating a new batch of soldiers and calling them Spartans would be unfair...it's like giving them a reputation, when they weren't the ones who deserved it.



The actual 300 story is just that, 300 Spartans. They came from a freaking nation called "Sparta". where EVERYBODY was trained that way, at least the all men where.

  • 06.22.2012 1:34 AM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"


Posted by: Onomatopoeia
They just seem like O.N.I goons in expensive armour, carrying a title they're not worthy to hold. They seem like O.N.I's private army.

I wonder what John will think of them.


That's exactly what they are...?

  • 06.22.2012 1:35 AM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

They have to be as good as Spartan IIs since they are in multiplayer. 343i already said they play pretty much the same as Master Chief.

  • 06.22.2012 2:21 AM PDT

The SPARTAN IV project effectively achieves the aims of the original ORION project. So I guess it should be considered the most successful.

[Edited on 06.22.2012 4:57 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2012 4:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Kyle Knight
So I figure now is a good time to bring this up...




Spirit of Fire...remember how Serena was last heard saying "something [had] happened?" Well, they were out preeeettty dang far in respect to Earth's location.

What if what had "happened" had something to do with finding Requiem? Think about it...the crew was in cryo...they didn't age...there are three Spartan IIs on that ship...do the epic calculations.


Fairly sure 343 has said "F that" to actually finishing the storyline of the Spirit of Fire




They said the possibilities for the future are open, but for now they're all about the Reclaimer Trilogy.

Massive difference from saying "-blam!- that."

  • 06.22.2012 5:40 AM PDT

I am alpha, i am omega.

I am the last of the primes.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Fred, Linda and Kelly didn't seem to have trouble bonding with the Spartan-IIIs.

Spartan 3s went through the same -blam!- as spartan 2s, they were also taught by a spartan 2. These spartan 4s although may be the best human soilders, are still babys comapred to these real spartans.

  • 06.22.2012 6:00 AM PDT

Well, wouldn't the Spartan IIs be at the least genetically superior to any future-gen Spartans? They were discriminated by their genes, whereas SIIIs are discriminated by ability.

  • 06.22.2012 6:21 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

My main issue is that Gamma Company has been completely ignored, IMO they should have killed them off in Glasslands and gone with the Spartan-IVs as a result or not use Spartan-IVs and just have Gamma Company come back.

I find the latter preferable since we're well acquainted with the Spartan-IIIs in the fiction, it just seems so soon to suddenly (not to mention, conveniently) overcome the issues that ORION presented where it was judged that the augmentations are better suited to children.

Hopefully The Thursday War will cover Gamma's fate...

  • 06.22.2012 8:20 AM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


....

The S-IVs were chosen. They proved themselves to be the best special forces operatives the UNSC had.

  • 06.22.2012 8:23 AM PDT


Posted by: UphillMercury

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: flamedude
Well it does against the history of Spartans to become a Spartan when you're in your adulthood..... so I agree too. I think it is simply the end product of the Spartan initiative to allow augmentations to be performed on adults but it comes at the expense of expertise, skill and experience. A S-II or S-III would mop the floor with any S-IV, unless 343i introduce some lame new augmentation that simply allows S-IVs to be "even betterer!" than previous Spartans.

That would annoy me.

I really hope that S-IVs are acknowledged as inferior to S-IIs and S-IIIs in some aspects and superior in others, that would make more sense to me.
This.

In the Fall of Reach I think a marine asked John how he could be a Spartan. John said something like "You don't become one, you are chosen".

Now that marines and ODSTs can become them, John will probably think of them the same way as the OP does. People in fancy armour and some augmentations. He'll think their training wasn't enough, or something like that.


....

The S-IVs were chosen. They proved themselves to be the best special forces operatives the UNSC had.
But they were given a choice. The Spartan IIs were not. They were chosen, end of story. Except for Soren.

Anyways Spartan IIs and IIIs were trained from the age of six to be BETTER than even the best special forces. The Spartan IVs trained to be what the Spartans IIs and IIIs were trained to be better than. Sure they got some additional training, but Spartan training is in a league of its own.

[Edited on 06.22.2012 9:42 AM PDT]

  • 06.22.2012 9:42 AM PDT


Posted by: Madmaxepic
They have to be as good as Spartan IIs since they are in multiplayer. 343i already said they play pretty much the same as Master Chief.
If everyone is on the same level... it doesn't matter.

Also gameplay canon=/= universe canon.

A real plasma pistol would melt your face off.

  • 06.22.2012 9:44 AM PDT