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This topic has moved here: Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
  • Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.
Subject: I don't see the S4's as Spartans.

I don't think they are THAT inferior. I mean come on, they obviously go through additional training and on top of that there are extreme requirements so even after that training they may not get in.

Instead of kidnapping kids and training them from a young age they probably found it more useful and efficient to find adults who already have had training and then throw EVEN MORE training at them which is significantly more difficult.

I don't think the skill level will be different, I think only the strength and experience will be different because Spartan II's cost a lot more money than post Spartans.

If you've noticed in the game, I'm going to pretend it's canon (Even though it's probably not... Hence this whole Spartan IV feud), they can perform the same tasks as a Spartan II.


Since the technology is more advanced and most likely cheaper this means they would be very close to a Spartan II and maybe equal or just above a Spartan III.


Too long to read?: More advanced technology, crammed training, battle experience = Good Spartans.

I may get a lot of stuff wrong but it's only because I don't read the books, just the wiki.



[Edited on 06.23.2012 10:24 PM PDT]

  • 06.23.2012 10:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: Sandtrap

So what were pre-covenant sangheili like?

Don't ask that too often, or they'll get Travis to write a new trilogy about it... :P

[Edited on 06.24.2012 1:00 AM PDT]

  • 06.24.2012 12:47 AM PDT

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Spartan IV's are hand picked soldiers that endured the human-covenant war. These guys are beasts. They are not just any soldier, they are hand picked for their skills on the field and they should be treated with the same respect you would give a well seasoned Spartan II and III.

Think about it.

It's like getting the best athlete's from any sport, the absolute pinnacle of the sport and then giving them super steroids.

Think about that for a second. Spartan II's and III's really didn't have enough time in life to experience it without augmentation, so in some ways they might oversee even there own capabilities.

You can be sure that normal human soldiers with a newly adjusted augmentation will definitely realise their new capabilities and make sure to use it at any moment.

  • 06.24.2012 3:05 AM PDT

That's basically my mindset as well OP.

S4's seem to be the logical upgrade to the ODST's.
More like an elite division of the ODST's than a true and worthy successor to the S2 program.

(Please do note the word "seem", because with the little info we do have, it's more like a gut feeling at the moment).

Same could more or less be said about the S3's. Sure: if they weren't send on suicide missions in subpar armor they'd have the potential to be on par with the S2's. Both bred for war from a very young age and therefore indoctrinated with tactics etc to a degree a regular soldier will never reach.

S4's might mostly be the best of the regular humans, augmented and put in fany armor...but that's it.
S2's (and S3's) were raised for war. They live war. They are far more experienced and thouroughly bred for war than anything else the UNSC has to offer.
S4's (so far seem to be) are "just" a group of slightly enhanced "best of the rest" soldiers.

Then again, my judgment can be clouded by my idea that Halo doesn't need another set of Spartans. That Halo doesn't need to rely solely on Spartans. And that 343i should have rather focussed on bringing back "missing" Spartans like:
- SoF's Red Team
- Black Team
- Grey Team
- Jun
- Possibly Jorge (or at least clarifying more around him and Jun)
- the other S3 Headhunter teams
- the rehabilitated S2's (the "2nd class" so to speak)
- Gamma company
- etc.

Because those are the badasses. The ones who've been through it all. S4's are just a bunch of new kids that need to be put in place I guess (also because ONI grows more and more unlikable and the S4's are their new toys)

  • 06.24.2012 4:47 AM PDT

Jorge is a no-go.

We saw him die. He'd be unable to survive the radiation from the slipspace drive without his helm, and with the bubble forming inside the ship and going out, the Corvette would emerge from Slipspace inside-out.

Jun on the other hand, He could be alive, could be dead. We don't know and 343 officially said "-blam!- that" to actually spending a tiny bit of time to say if he's dead or not. (Seriously, take five minutes and then go "Jun flew Halsey to Castle base, then did this, which results in him being MIA/KIA.", not -blam!- brush off the people and say he'll never be looked at again.)

  • 06.24.2012 5:17 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Jorge is 100% dead.

As DaeFaron has already pointed out - the radiation is one pretty massive factor. But more importantly, the Ardent Prayer would be nothing but atoms.

The slipspace drive detonated and expanded outwards in a spherical shape, since slipspace is literally 'tearing' space open - it sheared right through the LNoS and cut it in half because the circumference of the detonation went through it. This is difficult to explain, but since it expanded outward and anything it went through was torn apart, logically the Ardent Prayer would not exist anymore because it would have been 'cut' from all angles (as the detonation was spherical) because the epicentre of the blast was inside the hangar.

By this same logic, Jorge suffered the same fate. He is dead.

  • 06.24.2012 6:34 AM PDT

Then again, my judgment can be clouded by my idea that Halo doesn't need another set of Spartans. That Halo doesn't need to rely solely on Spartans. And that 343i should have rather focussed on bringing back "missing" Spartans like:
- SoF's Red Team
- Black Team
- Grey Team
- Jun
- Possibly Jorge (or at least clarifying more around him and Jun)
- the other S3 Headhunter teams
- the rehabilitated S2's (the "2nd class" so to speak)
- Gamma company
- etc.


True, but I like that we haven't seen this type of Spartan before in a Halo game.
A Spartan that went through augmentation at adulthood, a more mass produced, cheaper type.
Should be interesting, though I agree I would like to see the headhunters.

  • 06.24.2012 7:15 AM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk

Another thing.

That drone in GoO that talked in Latin never recognised Tom (I think it was Tom) as a Reclaimer, because of the Spartan 3 augmentations. Now if these S4s are made up of Gamma company, then how can they fight on Infinity and use Forerunner weapons and technology?

If I am right, then these S4s augmentations are very different to that of those of the 3s and possibly the 2s.

[Edited on 06.24.2012 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.24.2012 12:39 PM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Onomatopoeia
Another thing.

That drone in GoO that talked in Latin never recognised Tom (I think it was Tom) as a Reclaimer, because of the Spartan 3 augmentations. Now if these S4s are made up of Gamma company, then how can they fight on Infinity and use Forerunner weapons and technology?

If I am right, then these S4s augmentations are very different to that of those of the 3s and possibly the 2s.


This is one of very few things I think should be retconned in Halo. There is no way in Hell a Forerunner construct, no matter how simple, would mistake a human for a non Reclaimer.

It should have just been ordered to purge all indigenous surface species from the Onyx Installation.

It's just a Nylund writing goof like that Forerunner Crystal from First Strike.


Yeah, cause honestly from that standpoint, then Master Chief wouldn't be recognized as a reclaimer either...

Wait, it was partly caused by brainscans right? and Gamma company did have the brain altering augment...

[Edited on 06.24.2012 1:06 PM PDT]

  • 06.24.2012 12:51 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Onomatopoeia
Another thing.

That drone in GoO that talked in Latin never recognised Tom (I think it was Tom) as a Reclaimer, because of the Spartan 3 augmentations. Now if these S4s are made up of Gamma company, then how can they fight on Infinity and use Forerunner weapons and technology?

If I am right, then these S4s augmentations are very different to that of those of the 3s and possibly the 2s.


This is one of very few things I think should be retconned in Halo. There is no way in Hell a Forerunner construct, no matter how simple, would mistake a human for a non Reclaimer.

It should have just been ordered to purge all indigenous surface species from the Onyx Installation.

It's just a Nylund writing goof like that Forerunner Crystal from First Strike.


Wasn't the Crystal a part of 032?

  • 06.24.2012 12:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: the real Janaka

Posted by: Sandtrap

So what were pre-covenant sangheili like?

Don't ask that too often, or they'll get Travis to write a new trilogy about it... :P


I can only imagine the horror.

  • 06.24.2012 1:54 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: Sandtrap

Posted by: the real Janaka

Posted by: Sandtrap

So what were pre-covenant sangheili like?

Don't ask that too often, or they'll get Travis to write a new trilogy about it... :P


I can only imagine the horror.


It should be left open to interpretation. Not everything in Halo needs explanation.

  • 06.24.2012 1:55 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I´ll reserve my opinion about them until I see them in action.

  • 06.24.2012 2:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Onomatopoeia
Another thing.

That drone in GoO that talked in Latin never recognised Tom (I think it was Tom) as a Reclaimer, because of the Spartan 3 augmentations. Now if these S4s are made up of Gamma company, then how can they fight on Infinity and use Forerunner weapons and technology?

If I am right, then these S4s augmentations are very different to that of those of the 3s and possibly the 2s.


This is one of very few things I think should be retconned in Halo. There is no way in Hell a Forerunner construct, no matter how simple, would mistake a human for a non Reclaimer.

It should have just been ordered to purge all indigenous surface species from the Onyx Installation.

It's just a Nylund writing goof like that Forerunner Crystal from First Strike.


Yeah, cause honestly from that standpoint, then Master Chief wouldn't be recognized as a reclaimer either...

Wait, it was partly caused by brainscans right? and Gamma company did have the brain altering augment...
Maybe the drone had a glitch? I dunno. It IS Forerunner tech but nothing is perfect...

It would be a pretty weak explaniation though...

  • 06.24.2012 2:59 PM PDT

Just a chick who likes Halo and all that crap. I like Minecraft, AC, and L4D too.


Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Fred, Linda and Kelly didn't seem to have trouble bonding with the Spartan-IIIs.

Spartan 3s went through the same -blam!- as spartan 2s, they were also taught by a spartan 2. These spartan 4s although may be the best human soilders, are still babys comapred to these real spartans.

What? The spartan 4s have gon through all the same things, only without the special armor, and did the one thing almost no other spartan could. SURVIVE. Just because they weren't spartans from the start, dosen't make them any less skilled in any way. Sure they don't have enhancements but ODST's don't either and they were given as much, if not more respect than Spartans for most of the war.

  • 06.24.2012 5:17 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Onomatopoeia
Another thing.

That drone in GoO that talked in Latin never recognised Tom (I think it was Tom) as a Reclaimer, because of the Spartan 3 augmentations. Now if these S4s are made up of Gamma company, then how can they fight on Infinity and use Forerunner weapons and technology?

If I am right, then these S4s augmentations are very different to that of those of the 3s and possibly the 2s.


I think it was Ash and I recall it calling him Reclaimer then re-classifying him when he did not say the proper counter-response.

  • 06.24.2012 5:44 PM PDT
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I think they're just veterans of elite groups who volunteered and were got a doctrine into the program. The new armor is made to equip with anyone without augmentations.

  • 06.24.2012 5:57 PM PDT

just relax and have some fun

okay..... after reading the first three pages i have to say this, does the CIA tell you everything? and look at the united states economy it sucks but so many of its companines are rich beyond belief. The spartan 4s are new they are differnt so how about instead of yelling "MY OPINION IS BETTER THEN YOURS" we just take a breather sit back play some halo and wait for november 6th? then if they do suck you can say "HA TOLD YOU" but they may suprise you just give them the benefit of the doubt guys and girls

  • 06.24.2012 6:17 PM PDT


Posted by: im the next halo
I think they're just veterans of elite groups who volunteered and were got a doctrine into the program. The new armor is made to equip with anyone without augmentations.
Nope.

Spartan IV's have augments actually. The debate here is whether or not thpse augments can bring the Spartan IV's on par with the Spartan IIs/IIIs and if the Spartan IV's are as good as them aside from augments.

  • 06.24.2012 7:50 PM PDT

Well, I guess we will just have to see how augmented the Spartan 4's are. If they are superior to 3's and a little to 2's, Chief may still be very relevant with his "new armor", though still speculation by opinion.

  • 06.24.2012 8:04 PM PDT


Posted by: WildProphet
okay..... after reading the first three pages i have to say this, does the CIA tell you everything? and look at the united states economy it sucks but so many of its companines are rich beyond belief. The spartan 4s are new they are differnt so how about instead of yelling "MY OPINION IS BETTER THEN YOURS" we just take a breather sit back play some halo and wait for november 6th? then if they do suck you can say "HA TOLD YOU" but they may suprise you just give them the benefit of the doubt guys and girls


Is America in literal ruins? No.

  • 06.24.2012 10:06 PM PDT


Posted by: SHAOLINMONKEY 93
Spartan IV's are hand picked soldiers that endured the human-covenant war. These guys are beasts. They are not just any soldier, they are hand picked for their skills on the field and they should be treated with the same respect you would give a well seasoned Spartan II and III.

Think about it.

It's like getting the best athlete's from any sport, the absolute pinnacle of the sport and then giving them super steroids.

Think about that for a second. Spartan II's and III's really didn't have enough time in life to experience it without augmentation, so in some ways they might oversee even there own capabilities.

You can be sure that normal human soldiers with a newly adjusted augmentation will definitely realise their new capabilities and make sure to use it at any moment.
That or overestimate their abilities. To a Spartan II or III their augments are like normal to them. They know their limitations like a regular human knows the limitations of their body.

Now give that human extra capabilities and they'll feel like superman and POSSIBLY overestimate their abilities, leading to some bad decisions.

  • 06.25.2012 1:24 PM PDT


Posted by: HaloNinja82

Posted by: ferrrari

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Kyle Knight
Also, I'd like to point out that the Spartan IVs were not on Reach...it takes away the reputation of Spartans as being rare and Superhuman when they are all of a sudden available again like mass produced candy. My opinion anyways. Chief will treat them like soldiers, but the bond will not be the same as the one shared with other Spartans.


Fred, Linda and Kelly didn't seem to have trouble bonding with the Spartan-IIIs.

Spartan 3s went through the same -blam!- as spartan 2s, they were also taught by a spartan 2. These spartan 4s although may be the best human soilders, are still babys comapred to these real spartans.

What? The spartan 4s have gon through all the same things, only without the special armor, and did the one thing almost no other spartan could. SURVIVE. Just because they weren't spartans from the start, dosen't make them any less skilled in any way. Sure they don't have enhancements but ODST's don't either and they were given as much, if not more respect than Spartans for most of the war.
Ok... They have the one thing that other Spartans have not... SURVIVE? Spartan IIIs were sent on suicide missions, because they were just that. If a SPARTAN III couldn't live through it, an ODST didn't stand a chance.

Also the Spartan IIs probably died helping personel. Hell for all we know the Spartan IIs may have helped save some future Spartan IVs ass.

Spartans IVs have gone through SIMILAR but not exact things. Spartans were given the jobs that normal personnel (aka potential future Spartan IVs) couldn't do, as best shown by the Spartan IIIs.

Oh Spartans IIs and IIIs did survive the war. Not all of them... But not all Marines/ODSTs that could have been Spartan IVs survived either.

Really surviving is also a matter of chance. If the Covenant had caught up to and bombarded the Pillar of Autum, rather than boarding it, before the Chief could get out then Chief would be dead right now.

  • 06.25.2012 1:32 PM PDT
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Dead Orbit Is Best Orbit

S4's = Cannon-fodder

  • 06.25.2012 3:17 PM PDT