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This topic has moved here: Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?
  • Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?
Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?

When the UNSC discovered the Spires why did they send in Spartans and then send in frigates to shot them with MAC cannons like snipping dead flower heads when they could literally have bombed it from orbit. Why did they commit only around 30 warthogs and a mongoose to counter the invading covenant forces with no heavy armour when they could easily have dropped in ODSTs and other assets from orbit or one of Reach's many military bases. why don't they scrap red flag and commit the 30 odd Spartan IIs into the battle. Why don't they use more orbital assets. Why is ONI being stupid in luring Covenant to reach (retconing FoR in the process as to how reach was found). Why is Cortana split up when she could have easily just remained whole and still analysed the forerunner symbols. Why does the PoA leave the space battle to pick up Cortana when it is unlikely it can enter atmosphere safely due to it's age and size. Why isn't it damaged in the end scene where it is travelling towards one of the Halo rings when in FoR it was suffering from major damage and was about to be boarded. All or these questions and more mean I personally can't see Reach as canon and in my opinion FoR is canon.

  • 06.30.2012 10:20 AM PDT

One cone to splatter em all!!

the storyline screwed up. Appereantly a note in Halsey journal states that the game is a depiction of what could have happenend on reach. But I don't feel staisfied with that kinda ducktape excuse.

  • 06.30.2012 12:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Mr Owen L
When the UNSC discovered the Spires why did they send in Spartans and then send in frigates to shot them with MAC cannons like snipping dead flower heads when they could literally have bombed it from orbit. Why did they commit only around 30 warthogs and a mongoose to counter the invading covenant forces with no heavy armour when they could easily have dropped in ODSTs and other assets from orbit or one of Reach's many military bases. why don't they scrap red flag and commit the 30 odd Spartan IIs into the battle. Why don't they use more orbital assets. Why is ONI being stupid in luring Covenant to reach (retconing FoR in the process as to how reach was found). Why is Cortana split up when she could have easily just remained whole and still analysed the forerunner symbols. Why does the PoA leave the space battle to pick up Cortana when it is unlikely it can enter atmosphere safely due to it's age and size. Why isn't it damaged in the end scene where it is travelling towards one of the Halo rings when in FoR it was suffering from major damage and was about to be boarded. All or these questions and more mean I personally can't see Reach as canon and in my opinion FoR is canon.


A: Was in a sensor blocking dome. So they could've nuked the entire area and destroyed some Covenant vehicles and a pretty garden but nothing else. They had to get up close recon.
B: Um, you must've missed the entire BEGINNING of the cutscene. You know, with the scorpion tanks advancing, as well as Auntie Dot talking about UNSC ground forces engaged. (Those pretty arrows on the map? ALL UNSC ground units. Including ODST's, and their attack movements. So there was FAR, FAR more with just 30 warthogs, a mongoose, and a few falcons+ a pelican or two. Hell, if you bothered to even look out when you reached the AA gun, you'd see scorpions alongside the warthogs)
C: ONI stupidty is why the S2's weren't informed of the battle. Or not very informed.
D: Cause Parangosky is in charge. Her track record in Glasslands is stupid tactical plans.
E: Remained whole and left the PoA without an AI. The shipboard AI(The one that was yet to be installed/started up) was... as just said, not activated yet. Cortana served in that role because the battle rushed it. She wasn't truly split half and half. More like, a sliver of her was looking over that Forerunner artifact, while the bulk was over there in PoA/with chief.
F: Long discussed, PoA landed because Halsey flagged it down to give the part of Cortana back. Keyes decided it was worth the risk from Halsey's message. Age wouldn't matter as it was just refitted, so the ship isn't an ancient, rusting piece of junk. Size would probably more hinder how it lands then if it can land. Probably didn't land unaided like how it launched with aid. Regardless, that's one of the FEW actually good points I'll give to Anti-reach guys as being weird.
G: Um... The scene during the credits is NOT the scene you are thinking of. You are thinking "PoA level in halo CE." Credits scene in Reach is more like, right before that. (or during the outside part of the Cutscene, before the Covenant even attack).

And that's kinda a stupid reason to hate Reach IMO.

  • 07.02.2012 8:45 AM PDT

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Reach should not be considered Halo, it's the black spot on the Halo franchise.

  • 07.02.2012 12:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: Jose291
Reach should not be considered Halo, it's the black spot on the Halo franchise.


It technically wasn't according to Bungie until 343 tried to shoehorn it into canon.

  • 07.02.2012 12:20 PM PDT

Come on over to Moving Up for your primary help and Q&A source.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."

In my mind Halo: Reach never was canon and Fall of Reach was.
I have heard that the events of a video game override books in terms of what is canon, but I can't bring myself to accept the game's story. Does anyone else feel this way?
I'm with you there. I won't deny that Reach was a very epic game and it gave you a good feel of loosing your closest squad members e.t.c, but I would've preferred to have experienced it from the story of Fall of Reach just simply because it was a great book.

  • 07.02.2012 2:45 PM PDT
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'To create an apple pie from scratch first you must create the universe'.

Halo Reach didn't give you the sense of urgency it truly needed, Reach was THE military stronghold of the UNSC but it gave the sense you was saving a warehouse full of forklifts (pretty damn important).

  • 07.02.2012 4:05 PM PDT

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I don't really think of it as such, so I guess I don't consider it canon either. Halo: Reach's story was far worse than the book, which I enjoyed quite a lot.

I also don't really know what actualy happened now.

  • 07.02.2012 5:59 PM PDT


Posted by: SyK0sAm
In my mind Halo: Reach never was canon and Fall of Reach was.
I have heard that the events of a video game override books in terms of what is canon, but I can't bring myself to accept the game's story. Does anyone else feel this way?
I'm with you there. I won't deny that Reach was a very epic game and it gave you a good feel of loosing your closest squad members e.t.c, but I would've preferred to have experienced it from the story of Fall of Reach just simply because it was a great book.


While it may have been nice, bungie did say (I believe very early on) that the game wasn't going to be a "book events straight out."

Personally, I felt one of Reach's best mission sets was Exodus-New Alexandria. Parts could be improved (Like the triage station... with zero civilian doctors or UNSC medics helping the wounded), but overall I enjoyed the feeling they put out.


Posted by: BenTheSlayer011
Halo Reach didn't give you the sense of urgency it truly needed, Reach was THE military stronghold of the UNSC but it gave the sense you was saving a warehouse full of forklifts (pretty damn important).


At the same time, the book didn't portray the ground forces of Reach to be anything like how a military stronghold world would be. That meaning, competent, prepared, or even being there in great number.

  • 07.02.2012 6:02 PM PDT



Posted by: TedToaster22
I wish I could find make them easily co-exist, but some of the things we're expected to believe are pretty far-fetched. For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.

Today we have organisations that change and cut us off from infomation or donw right dont release it, Why would this not change in 500 years?

  • 07.02.2012 7:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Alf stewert


Posted by: TedToaster22
I wish I could find make them easily co-exist, but some of the things we're expected to believe are pretty far-fetched. For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement.

Today we have organisations that change and cut us off from infomation or donw right dont release it, Why would this not change in 500 years?


Heck, the news itself keeps the bulk of what happens in the middle-east hidden.

They talk about a roadside bomb killing a humvee driver, but never mention the strike that took out 30+ terrorists.

It's extremely easy to make everybody blind to what happens in a specific part of the world.

[Edited on 07.02.2012 7:56 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2012 7:55 PM PDT

I cap fools.

The only thing I really missed in Reach were the epic space battles between large human and Covenant ships. I feel like the space battles played a huge role in the books, but are ignored in the games. Sure, we got that one space level, but it was really nothing special. The books describe captains frantically relaying orders, as they try to overcome the massively overpowered ship. In Reach, destroying a Covenant carrier looks like the easiest thing in the world.

tl;dr Halo needs more space battles as portrayed in the books

  • 07.02.2012 8:10 PM PDT


Posted by: Ghost
The only thing I really missed in Reach were the epic space battles between large human and Covenant ships. I feel like the space battles played a huge role in the books, but are ignored in the games. Sure, we got that one space level, but it was really nothing special. The books describe captains frantically relaying orders, as they try to overcome the massively overpowered ship. In Reach, destroying a Covenant carrier looks like the easiest thing in the world.

tl;dr Halo needs more space battles as portrayed in the books


If highjacking a Covenant vessel mid-battle with it being in formation and not completely alone and jammed is easy, and rigging a ships slipspace drive as a bomb...

Then sure, taking out super carriers are a piece of cake.

  • 07.02.2012 8:33 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Ghost
The only thing I really missed in Reach were the epic space battles between large human and Covenant ships. I feel like the space battles played a huge role in the books, but are ignored in the games. Sure, we got that one space level, but it was really nothing special. The books describe captains frantically relaying orders, as they try to overcome the massively overpowered ship. In Reach, destroying a Covenant carrier looks like the easiest thing in the world.

tl;dr Halo needs more space battles as portrayed in the books


If highjacking a Covenant vessel mid-battle with it being in formation and not completely alone and jammed is easy, and rigging a ships slipspace drive as a bomb...

Then sure, taking out super carriers are a piece of cake.


Taking out a Super Carrier by hijacking a Corvette with a Frigate + dozens of single ships is still nowhere near visually portraying a large scale space engagement involving multiple ships from both sides.

The closest this was ever achieved was in Halo 3 and even then it was a cop out as none of the Covenant vessels can be seen actually shooting each other as the pelicans flew past. What we ended up getting seemed like Covenant ships (of which we couldn't tell which belonged to which faction) lazily trying to drift past each other. Instead, we had to listen to that battle play out via radio transmissions.

Reach was the perfect opportunity to finally portray what a large scale battle in the Haloverse would be like in a game (Halo 2's in-game ship sprites don't exactly count when they instantaneously, spontaneously, and continuously blow up every few seconds to the point that more than 60 will have been 'destroyed' in about two minutes). Not to mention it'd be the first time to really show how technologically inferior the UNSC fleet was. Instead we're still left with the impression (game-wise) that UNSC ships are very durable against Covenant vessels.

  • 07.02.2012 11:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Reach was the perfect opportunity to finally portray what a large scale battle in the Haloverse would be like in a game
It's sad that even in ground battles, all it could muster was up to 10 troopers at a time.

40 AI and vehicles. Hardly impressive when 99% of them are territorials.

  • 07.03.2012 12:24 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

I love Reach's story. And I think that Nylund goofed making the Battle of Reach take place over a day or so. The Covenant don't play things safe, they take bigger risks than we do. They wouldn't send 300+ ships to squash a human force half that size, and they certainly wouldn't send 700 (I think that was how many was in the revised TFoR).

That said, the Covenant were also engaging more and more in stealth operations. Nylund wrote that himself. So having a massive stealth war take place on Reach makes perfect sense within Nylund's canon.

The only thing that needs to change is the dates. That's all. Everything else can be logically explained while allowing both universe to operate.

Go ahead, try me. Bring up anything you want that you think cannot fit within both series' of events, aside from the dates, and I'll logically make it work with both stories.

They don't have to conflict. People are just butthurt that Bungie didn't make a game based entirely on the novel, which is what everyone wanted, expected, and didn't get. That's the real reason behind the hatred for Halo: Reach. It has nothing to do with either story, and more to do with the community throwing a hissy fit over not getting the story they wanted.

  • 07.03.2012 1:57 AM PDT

I don't care. The game had action. The book had written words. ;D

  • 07.03.2012 4:41 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

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Posted by: Cheeto666
I love Reach's story.

Go ahead, try me. Bring up anything you want that you think cannot fit within both series' of events, aside from the dates, and I'll logically make it work with both stories.

They don't have to conflict. People are just butthurt that Bungie didn't make a game based entirely on the novel, which is what everyone wanted, expected, and didn't get. That's the real reason behind the hatred for Halo: Reach. It has nothing to do with either story, and more to do with the community throwing a hissy fit over not getting the story they wanted.
... Here we go again ...
Really? There are no contradictions whatsoever, no change in theme at all?

Of coarse you have an explanation for everything; it is always possible to find some kind of excuse. That's exactly what 343i have been doing with Data Drops, they've tried to explain things, fix plot holes, by adding new information that fills us in on what actually happened.

So in a sense, yes, you're right, there aren't any contradictions nor plot holes whatsoever, cause if there are, all we'll have to do is find some far-fetched reason for it to work. There is always something one can resort to. No fictions ever have had any plot holes nor have they ever contradicted anything within itself.

You loved Reaches story, therefore you see no wrong with it. I couldn't care less for it, so I see all what's wrong with it. And since there apparently isn't anything wrong with it, I'm the one with bad taste. Ok, have it your way.

I'm just wondering if this is how you treat all fiction; whether you actually have any complaints, any at all, over some part of some fiction. I know I have. Ex: I love Halo CE, Deus Ex, and KotOR, but that doesn't delude from the fact that these games have flaws.
Even the sun has its spots. Reach on the other hand, has far too many. Fantastic game in many aspects though, just not story.

[Edited on 07.03.2012 5:27 AM PDT]

  • 07.03.2012 4:54 AM PDT

So if 343i has fixed everything and added things to fill the holes and they (who now own Halo) say it is canon how is it not?

  • 07.03.2012 9:32 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

I think these notions that "Companies don't control what's canon" are ridiculous. Of course they determine what is definitively canon; they're the ones who wrote it. It would be absolute chaos if we had every pisant fanatic and fan defining their own canons, and the storyline as we know it would likely dissolve.

  • 07.03.2012 12:54 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

I accept that it is canon. I just think it is severely crap.

Reach along with more new material has brought me to the breaking point of disconnecting with the Halo Franchise from a canon perspective from any point onwards. The story can just go -blam!- itself.

Yes, I get that Greg Bear works are great blah blah blah. But that's not why I read about the Halo Universe, played halo nor enjoyed Halo. This is something different and something new, which is great and refreshing but it's just Halo on the cover not the 01-08 Halo I enjoyed.

Abandon ship.

  • 07.03.2012 3:25 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

So what did you enjoy about past Halo games/stories?

  • 07.03.2012 6:36 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Personally, I felt one of Reach's best mission sets was Exodus-New Alexandria. Parts could be improved (Like the triage station... with zero civilian doctors or UNSC medics helping the wounded), but overall I enjoyed the feeling they put out.
I agree, I liked these two levels. Although they could have been more epic. There probably should have been more civilians, more variety in their designs, and perhaps a few that were actually armed.

As for New Alexandria, the level could have been more explosive, perhaps even had a time limit where the Covenant ships would actually glass you if you were to slow. That would have been awesome to watch, just for fun. Overall, there should have been more levels with Reach being utterly melted by Covenant ships.
At the same time, the book didn't portray the ground forces of Reach to be anything like how a military stronghold world would be. That meaning, competent, prepared, or even being there in great number.Yeah, it would have been cooler with tons of marines and tanks and stuff. The whole thing could have been so much more intense.

  • 07.18.2012 2:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Madmaxepic
perhaps even had a time limit where the Covenant ships would actually glass you if you were to slow.
With Liberty, anything's possible (not my video but it's relevant).

Anyways, that'd be great as long as it's not bs punishment like H3's hog run (you get out to visit the Final Grunt and stay with him, you eventually get killed off by the game instead of being stranded) or killing civilians on Exodus (even if it's a damn accident, the game will still punish you).

  • 07.18.2012 3:07 AM PDT

No. Why should I? game canon > book canon and when MS just lets Nylund write what he wants then it's no surprise that Bungie doesn't care what he wrote.

[Edited on 07.18.2012 4:16 AM PDT]

  • 07.18.2012 4:13 AM PDT