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This topic has moved here: Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?
  • Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?
Subject: Does anyone else refuse to accept the Halo:Reach story as canon?


Posted by: CrazyHUNTER 95
I won't ever accept it. Ever. Same goes for that monstrosity known as "Halo Wars" Key points for why I hate Halo Reach: 1.What happened to the SPI armor Spartan III's were given instead of the MJOLNIR armor. Alpha and Beta group Spartans? Seriously? Reach fell in a day, not weeks. George, the whole concept behind him aggravates me. I could go on and on.


A: Armor was explained...
B: And the battle in the book still took place. Of course, I looked at the battle in the Fall of Reach more in detail after these debates popped up, and found out the book version had the UNSC ground forces doing nothing and not even being prepared... despite a massive fleet of 300+ ships charging the planet.
C: How does Jorge annoy you?

  • 07.20.2012 4:15 AM PDT

I DO have time to bleed...i just dont want to.


Posted by: Avatar Korra

Posted by: ferrrari
Just beacus eyou don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of.
Cannons are fun to shoot.

i hate when people build multicannons at the hill giants.

  • 07.21.2012 1:58 PM PDT

Yes halo reach is a halo in name only. I don't accept it as canon

  • 07.22.2012 12:00 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Lethal Rads
Yes halo reach is a halo in name only. I don't accept it as canon


Ha, you think your opinion matters. Reach is canon according to Bungie and 343.

  • 07.22.2012 12:24 AM PDT
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I'll never accept Reach gameplay depiction as canon.

The whole campaign should have been cinematics. Especially LNoS:

LNoS mission start - excessively scripted
LNoS space launch - unbearably long, can't skip it

  • 07.22.2012 1:03 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
I'll never accept Reach gameplay depiction as canon.

The whole campaign should have been cinematics. Especially LNoS:

LNoS mission start - excessively scripted
LNoS space launch - unbearably long, can't skip it


A chunk of the time... gameplay isn't labeled as direct canon.

  • 07.22.2012 9:14 AM PDT

If you cannot provide proof or simply cannot provide a rational, logical argument then don't say anything at all.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

A: Armor was explained...
B: And the battle in the book still took place. Of course, I looked at the battle in the Fall of Reach more in detail after these debates popped up, and found out the book version had the UNSC ground forces doing nothing and not even being prepared... despite a massive fleet of 300+ ships charging the planet.
C: How does Jorge annoy you?


How was the armor explained in a logical manor? Especially for the mission Lone Wolf where there are numerous Spartan III's on the ground with MJOLNIR armor.

Also what about the Alpha and Beta group Spartan III's appearing on reach despite all of them being wiped out?

Jorge's character makes no sense. A Spartan II serving under a Spartan III, He show's waaaaaaaaay to much emotion for a Spartan II, how the hell did he modify armor that the UNSC barely understands, and how was he able to ascend to the rank of cheif warrant officer when Spartans are very rarely promoted?

  • 07.23.2012 12:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: CrazyHUNTER 95

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

A: Armor was explained...
B: And the battle in the book still took place. Of course, I looked at the battle in the Fall of Reach more in detail after these debates popped up, and found out the book version had the UNSC ground forces doing nothing and not even being prepared... despite a massive fleet of 300+ ships charging the planet.
C: How does Jorge annoy you?


How was the armor explained in a logical manor? Especially for the mission Lone Wolf where there are numerous Spartan III's on the ground with MJOLNIR armor.

Also what about the Alpha and Beta group Spartan III's appearing on reach despite all of them being wiped out?

Jorge's character makes no sense. A Spartan II serving under a Spartan III, He show's waaaaaaaaay to much emotion for a Spartan II, how the hell did he modify armor that the UNSC barely understands, and how was he able to ascend to the rank of cheif warrant officer when Spartans are very rarely promoted?

1. How do you know they were Spartan III's?
2. Not all of the companies were wiped out. Two survived, obviously. Bungie actually states this.
3. The UNSC understands the armor they created. What are you on about? The Master Chief was promoted. Kurt was promoted. Linda was promoted.

  • 07.23.2012 3:48 AM PDT


Posted by: X Delta Xero X
It's been said before, game canon overrides book canon.

this

  • 07.23.2012 6:02 AM PDT


Posted by: ErranInfigo

Posted by: CrazyHUNTER 95

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

A: Armor was explained...
B: And the battle in the book still took place. Of course, I looked at the battle in the Fall of Reach more in detail after these debates popped up, and found out the book version had the UNSC ground forces doing nothing and not even being prepared... despite a massive fleet of 300+ ships charging the planet.
C: How does Jorge annoy you?


How was the armor explained in a logical manor? Especially for the mission Lone Wolf where there are numerous Spartan III's on the ground with MJOLNIR armor.

Also what about the Alpha and Beta group Spartan III's appearing on reach despite all of them being wiped out?

Jorge's character makes no sense. A Spartan II serving under a Spartan III, He show's waaaaaaaaay to much emotion for a Spartan II, how the hell did he modify armor that the UNSC barely understands, and how was he able to ascend to the rank of cheif warrant officer when Spartans are very rarely promoted?

1. How do you know they were Spartan III's?
2. Not all of the companies were wiped out. Two survived, obviously. Bungie actually states this.
3. The UNSC understands the armor they created. What are you on about? The Master Chief was promoted. Kurt was promoted. Linda was promoted.


To expand/add.

1+2: If you bother to read that letter they released before the game came out... Kurt and Mendez are talking about pulling out some of the best Spartan 3's from the main company before the suicide mission. These Spartans also were outfitted 'properly'. Aka, MJOLNIR.
3: First line has no bearing at all, you can have an older, highly experienced Sergeant serving under an officer who just came out of the academy. Kurt also cared for others under his command and was friendly, are you saying he makes no sense too? Um... why the hell wouldn't the UNSC understand MJOLNIR? his armor is described as the variant which acted as the test-bed for shielding tech. And Erran there covers the promotion part.

  • 07.23.2012 7:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Really, this whole topic is a beaten horse.

I mean, I'm curious why the Reach topics are appearing again? I thought nearly all the debating about it and Canon were done?


Because the issues were never solved, just given up upon.

  • 07.23.2012 9:42 AM PDT

ShawtyHullstineFilms CEO-Team MLG EXTREME

I agree with you. Halo: Reach's characters were just more empty shells fighting a super-small portion of the battle. I enjoyed the campaign, but I think it would have been a lot better if it followed the Spartan II's.

Also, and I'm not sure why it bothered me so much, but I didn't like how the Pillar of Autumn was on the ground and how Cortana wasn't with the Chief. It's been a while since I've read "The Fall of Reach" but I'm pretty sure Reach disregarded both of those two points.

[Edited on 07.23.2012 10:03 AM PDT]

  • 07.23.2012 10:03 AM PDT


Posted by: TedToaster22

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Really, this whole topic is a beaten horse.

I mean, I'm curious why the Reach topics are appearing again? I thought nearly all the debating about it and Canon were done?


Because the issues were never solved, just given up upon.


You mean the issues that I believe 343 released data drops which solved them?

Either way, regardless if they were 'solved' the group that liked reach and the group that disliked reach finished their debating and moved on/became friendly.


Posted by: farmerscott21
I agree with you. Halo: Reach's characters were just more empty shells fighting a super-small portion of the battle. I enjoyed the campaign, but I think it would have been a lot better if it followed the Spartan II's.

Also, and I'm not sure why it bothered me so much, but I didn't like how the Pillar of Autumn was on the ground and how Cortana wasn't with the Chief. It's been a while since I've read "The Fall of Reach" but I'm pretty sure Reach disregarded both of those two points.


Perhaps about S2's... but then again, we already knew what they did for the most part. I preferred this due to the fact the UNSC had been ready on the ground and fighting, and the Covenant had time to scout and find out the locations instead of magically just steamrolling all of Reach in hours and knowing the exact location of every major base that was in the book.

As for the PoA, that was a weird thing yeah, Cortana though, if you missed it, was split. Only a part of her was what Six carried to Keyes. The bulk was with chief.

  • 07.23.2012 11:59 AM PDT

If you cannot provide proof or simply cannot provide a rational, logical argument then don't say anything at all.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

1+2: If you bother to read that letter they released before the game came out... Kurt and Mendez are talking about pulling out some of the best Spartan 3's from the main company before the suicide mission. These Spartans also were outfitted 'properly'. Aka, MJOLNIR.
3: First line has no bearing at all, you can have an older, highly experienced Sergeant serving under an officer who just came out of the academy. Kurt also cared for others under his command and was friendly, are you saying he makes no sense too? Um... why the hell wouldn't the UNSC understand MJOLNIR? his armor is described as the variant which acted as the test-bed for shielding tech. And Erran there covers the promotion part.


So, what your telling me is that over 20 Spartan III's were pulled out? Then they were outfitted with MJOLNIR, armor so expensive it was one of the main reasons why the Spartan II program was discontinued, and not a single one made it off of Reach or even tried to assist Noble Team?

Kurt and Jorge aren't normal Spartans. Their emotions are described as "rare and abnormal" Kurt was promoted so he wouldn't have to serve under Mendez, Mastercheif was promoted because he served as a highly successful team leader and he was the only one promoted out of the academy. Linda was promoted to petty officer second class. That's not much of a promotion there and I believe it was because John designated her the leader of Green Team. MJOLNIR isn't understood very well by the UNSC. It's borrowed tech based off of the elites shielding. The fact that Jorge who is a Spartan and not a scientist could figure out how to modify his armor is absolutely far-fetched. Spartan II's were given far superior training which should make him the leader of Noble team.

  • 07.24.2012 4:09 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TedToaster22

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Really, this whole topic is a beaten horse.

I mean, I'm curious why the Reach topics are appearing again? I thought nearly all the debating about it and Canon were done?


Because the issues were never solved, just given up upon.


You mean the issues that I believe 343 released data drops which solved them?

Either way, regardless if they were 'solved' the group that liked reach and the group that disliked reach finished their debating and moved on/became friendly.


1. Data Drops didn't solve everything, they only patched certain pieces of the broken canon.

2. The existence of this thread disagrees.

  • 07.24.2012 9:22 AM PDT

Do tell me exactly where I said, with quotes, that the sparta corpses in Lone Wolf are Spartan III's.

Also, I'm saying a FEW were pulled out and got the armor, not many. Why would they have assisted Noble Team is so? They would have had their own orders and objectives. Hell, if we go by the idea that the Lone Wolf Spartans were S3's like Noble Team... Note they are in the field just below the PoA. They could've been ordered to go ther and try to hold of the Covenant. That's assisting Noble Team, although indirectly. Either way, face it buddy, It happened. Kurt and Mendez pulled out some members of Alpha and Beta company to form squads that did get better gear.

Either way, you are bashing Jorge... for something that another Spartan showed. So do you hate Kurt? Oh, and I believe it was stated all of Noble Team had higher then normal ranks so they wouldn't have to follow the orders of a random officer/sergeant on the field going "Hey, I order you to take out this bunker instead of heading to the armory!"

Um... the color teams were a by mission basis. Linda was leader of Green team... for a grand total of one mission. After she ran with Blue or Red. If they needed another team they formed green.

MJOLNIR clearly isn't understood well by you. You are saying that... the USA doesn't understand the Abrams tank basically.

A: They built the damn thing. This is like Ford designing a new truck partly based on heavy research into a chevy truck, and not understanding how it works despite reverse engineering the chevy truck!
B: The shielding is based off a Jackal shield gauntlet, NOT ELITE SHIELDING.
C: Might I ask where the heck they imply Jorge modded his armor by himself? The closest you get is Halsey asking him what he has done to her armor and he goes "Some modifications" (IIRC). It doesn't sound like he just went "lol swap out parts." Even then, the mods? Um... external. armor. plating. Not the innards.


Sigh, and D: Clearly you don't know the lore as well as you think. S3 training is several times described as being better and harder then S2 training. And just because he's supposedly "more skilled" and "Has more experience" doesn't make him a leader. There are reasons you have older soldiers following younger officers. Not because they lack the skills or experience, but because those older soldiers just don't want to, or can't completely be leaders.

  • 07.24.2012 9:30 AM PDT


Posted by: TedToaster22

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TedToaster22

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Really, this whole topic is a beaten horse.

I mean, I'm curious why the Reach topics are appearing again? I thought nearly all the debating about it and Canon were done?


Because the issues were never solved, just given up upon.


You mean the issues that I believe 343 released data drops which solved them?

Either way, regardless if they were 'solved' the group that liked reach and the group that disliked reach finished their debating and moved on/became friendly.


1. Data Drops didn't solve everything, they only patched certain pieces of the broken canon.

2. The existence of this thread disagrees.


So... you admit the data drops did fix stuff. Even if it didn't fix every last thing, they covered stuff. Really, 343, and Bungie both call Halo Reach canon. It's solid fact that way. Denying it is just stupid.

I'm talking the ones who were really vocal. Like Me, deceptioncobra, rkosnake, grey101, elder bias, etc.

Do you see us constantly posting Reach debates anymore? No. We'll appear in topics somebody just randomly posts, but pretty much entirely we've moved on.

  • 07.24.2012 9:35 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: CrazyHUNTER 95

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

1+2: If you bother to read that letter they released before the game came out... Kurt and Mendez are talking about pulling out some of the best Spartan 3's from the main company before the suicide mission. These Spartans also were outfitted 'properly'. Aka, MJOLNIR.
3: First line has no bearing at all, you can have an older, highly experienced Sergeant serving under an officer who just came out of the academy. Kurt also cared for others under his command and was friendly, are you saying he makes no sense too? Um... why the hell wouldn't the UNSC understand MJOLNIR? his armor is described as the variant which acted as the test-bed for shielding tech. And Erran there covers the promotion part.


MJOLNIR isn't understood very well by the UNSC. It's borrowed tech based off of the elites shielding. The fact that Jorge who is a Spartan and not a scientist could figure out how to modify his armor is absolutely far-fetched. Spartan II's were given far superior training which should make him the leader of Noble team.



1. were you high? what sense does it make that the UNSC wouldn't understand something they created? The shielding is based off the jackals energy gauntlet, someone needs to read the books again.

2.So you are telling me it is far fetched that jorge knows how to operate the armor he has been wearing for over 20 years?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense whatsoever like a welder not knowing how to set up his machines because he isn't a mechanic.

  • 07.24.2012 9:50 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

What does Jorge needs to understand about his armor? He just swapped his armor pieces to ones made by private manufacturers, something that other Spartans have done before (Fall of Reach comic, some Spartan II's including Fred use several different helmets like the Commando helmet, EOD, ODST and Operator/Scout [can't really see which one it is]), and that's with them using the Mark IV armor, so why Jorge can't y'know, change his armor?

I mean, Special Operations units get more liberty when it comes to pretty much everything, outfit/uniform included, so him changing something external on the armor like his chest and shoulders as well as his helmet is not a bad thing, it's not like there are not at least five companies working on privatized MJOLNIR variants.

  • 07.24.2012 10:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: RKOSNAKE
What does Jorge needs to understand about his armor? He just swapped his armor pieces to ones made by private manufacturers, something that other Spartans have done before (Fall of Reach comic, some Spartan II's including Fred use several different helmets like the Commando helmet, EOD, ODST and Operator/Scout [can't really see which one it is]), and that's with them using the Mark IV armor, so why Jorge can't y'know, change his armor?

I mean, Special Operations units get more liberty when it comes to pretty much everything, outfit/uniform included, so him changing something external on the armor like his chest and shoulders as well as his helmet is not a bad thing, it's not like there are not at least five companies working on privatized MJOLNIR variants.
There is a subtle similarity between Jorge and Kurt.

Both are Spartan IIs
Both work with Spartan IIIs
Both wear outdated or inferior armor

And yeah it's not a bad thing to customize. Elites were pretty predictable and nameless in CE and Reach. But in H2 and H3, that's when they were the most story driven. They could be given weapons by the player and they were powerful as a team than individually.

  • 07.24.2012 12:40 PM PDT

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cool, halo is a great game it has loads of really great gameplay

  • 07.24.2012 12:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
What does Jorge needs to understand about his armor? He just swapped his armor pieces to ones made by private manufacturers, something that other Spartans have done before (Fall of Reach comic, some Spartan II's including Fred use several different helmets like the Commando helmet, EOD, ODST and Operator/Scout [can't really see which one it is]), and that's with them using the Mark IV armor, so why Jorge can't y'know, change his armor?

I mean, Special Operations units get more liberty when it comes to pretty much everything, outfit/uniform included, so him changing something external on the armor like his chest and shoulders as well as his helmet is not a bad thing, it's not like there are not at least five companies working on privatized MJOLNIR variants.
There is a subtle similarity between Jorge and Kurt.

Both are Spartan IIs
Both work with Spartan IIIs
Both wear outdated or inferior armor

And yeah it's not a bad thing to customize. Elites were pretty predictable and nameless in CE and Reach. But in H2 and H3, that's when they were the most story driven. They could be given weapons by the player and they were powerful as a team than individually.


Um... Jorge's armor is Mark V. The mark's are labeled by what the armor can do. Since his armor has shields, it can be called mark V. It's not very outdated or inferior.

  • 07.24.2012 12:56 PM PDT

Posted by: paulmarv

The possessor of the canonical artifact is told that he is in "possession of the most complete and accurate account that anyone has been able to assemble of SPECWAR/GroupTHREE/NOBLE's actions". The whole canonical artifact is that of a data artifact. Therefore, any discrepancy between the events manifested in the "Halo Reach" artifact and the narrative "Halo: The Fall of Reach" is an illustration of what ONI either erroneously believes, or intently propagandizes. Think of Halo Reach as a parable and Halo: The Fall of Reach as the real deal.

Please read my post here (the entire thread is actually of great pertinence to this discussion).


Ah, no, not at all, not in the least. Regardless of what the letter(s) included with the Limited/Legendary Editions of Reach say, it's completely and one hundred percent canon, as is TFoR. Neither one is the "real deal", as you put it, at the expense of the other, they are two sides to the same coin, half of the same whole. And to be quite honest, they're both much better together anyway, on their own they each have their own short-comings that the other fills in (though I think TFoR on it's own has a lot more short-comings when it comes to the battle). If you ask me the only reason that Bungie made Reach out to be an artifact from within the Halo universe was so that 343i had as much wiggle room in regards to the game as they needed...and since 343i hasn't changed one bit of Reach and done their best to mesh it with TFoR, then it is perfectly safe to say that there is as much non-canon about Reach as there is to any of the other Halo games. Other canon materials have started mentioning Reach, such as the new book Glasslands (which is also canon, unfortunately, no matter how much I, or any other person despises it).

Just because it happens to be that simple this time doesn't mean that is always is. I vehemently disagree with people who say that the true canon is whatever the business authorities say it is. The true Halo canon is an immutable identity that is higher than any of us, or any business entity - Bungie or 343. Nobody dictates what it is, rather, the people in position (such as Bungie) have revealed parts of it to their best ability in the form of a video game. If you disagree, I can point to places where I have written long and extensive proofs of the statement I have just made, but I will only point you to them because discussion of them here would border of off-topicness because, as I said before, the answer to this whole thread is really as simple as that one quote from the Halo Reach box above.

Again with the spewing of your nonsensical views as to what constitutes canon? Seriously? So you honestly believe that the writers are not in control of their own story at all and have absolutely no say over what is or is not a valid part of the universe they've created? That is possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard, and quite offensive to boot. The writers and creators of a story are the ONLY ones who decide what is or is not canon, not the fans, not some arbitrary and abstract rule you or anyone else makes up...nobody except those crafting the story. I've seen your other posts on this matter of canon...and none of them contain any kind of proof at all, just you basically claiming that your idea is right and the only one that can define what is or is not canon.

I'm a writer, so I know all about crafting stories and whole universes from scratch and welding together all these different concepts and ideas to form one neat and cohesive story. Do you have any idea how offensive and utterly ridiculous it sounds with you claiming that I have no active control over what is or is not true for what I've created? It's just downright insane!

Anyways, as for the original OP and the whole point of this thread. Yes, Reach is absolutely canon, people can try to deny it all they like, but both Bungie and 343i treat and regard the game as canon, so they don't even have a leg to stand on. Unless otherwise stated (such as the episode "Odd One Out" in Halo Legends) to be so every piece of Halo media released is a part of the Halo canon.

  • 07.26.2012 11:05 PM PDT

No, ExcessiveFaun6 is not my real gamertag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cortana: The message just repeats. "Regret, Regret, Regret."
Miranda: Any idea what it means?
Sgt. Johnson: Dear Humanity... we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!
Marines: Hoo-rah!

No idea if anyone cares, but some people expressed some other opinions on it in this thread about books/canon.

  • 07.27.2012 3:56 PM PDT

book>game becuase book was first and better and made sense

  • 07.27.2012 10:21 PM PDT