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Subject: Battle of Earth/Sol system

How actually devastating was it?

In Halo 3 we hear the bombardment causalities were extreme, but immediately afterwards that Truth focused ALL his forces in Africa. So it can be taken as "Bombarded many major cities" or "Bombarded Africa, specifically UNSC holdouts."

Mombasa was completely evacuated, while America or Australia was not due to few Covenant attacks.

Ghosts of Onyx says they did perform attacks elsewhere on the globe, but all were repulsed without major incident. The city Ackerson sent the Covenant after likewise didn't fall to the Covenant as I know.

Mars, we know a battle took place there, due to that was were Ackerson fought alongside a UNSC army group and was captured. But how badly was it hit?

Glasslands comes along and says the civilian deaths hit the billions mark, while at the same time apparently private companies still have enough manpower and factories to produce hefty amounts of shiny new stuff(mass produced GEN2 MJOLNIR armor.)

While the other lore says the planets population was severely reduced, the more probably answer was they evacuated many civilians and other people to other planets in the Sol system.



So, post halo 3, how badly off is Earth?

  • 06.23.2012 11:21 PM PDT
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http://www.halopedian.com/Sol_system
Easy reference, some of the info may be sketchy, I am confirming the sources as we type...
http://www.halopedian.com/Battle_of_Earth

[Edited on 06.24.2012 1:48 AM PDT]

  • 06.24.2012 1:37 AM PDT

... I've already read the battle of Earth pages.

I'm wanting discussion, as the sources conflict or are unclear in parts.

  • 06.24.2012 1:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
... I've already read the battle of Earth pages.

I'm wanting discussion, as the sources conflict or are unclear in parts.

Basically Glasslands paints a picture implying that anything useful to humans, such as a major metropolis, was destroyed, with the Covenant invasion throughout the whole planet, basically attacking as many cities and UNSC bases as possible.

Australia was badly hit, too.

The death toll is in the billions, although the UNSC has the infrastructure to sustain itself.

There are many, many humans in the Sol Systems as a whole, I believe one figure that is unconfirmed was 23 billion.

The Sol System contain probably the last major colonies, so the population was probably in the 20 or so billion...


In 2511, Dr. Halsey and UNSC estimated the universal human population to be around 39 billion, of which many were unrecorded by colonial infrastructure.[31] In October 2552, Cortana said that humanity suffered 23 billion casualties throughout the course of the Human-Covenant War, putting the surviving human population around 16 billion.[32] However, the actual population may be larger as it doesn't take into account the population growth from 2511 to 2525, or the population growth from 2552 to 2553 that was overshadowed by the comparatively larger number of deaths.

What this tells me is that ONI/UNSC thought ahead, they knew they would find Earth eventually, so they removed most of the major factories from Earth and Mars. That will explain the new tech in Halo 4 which is not from Misriah Armory, and the UNSC Infinity.

The industrial complex was probably moved out, similar to Stalin's URAL strategy in WW2.

It also puts into light the UNSC Infinity, in one Halo piece of fiction which I cannot remember, one person was quoted saying that somewhere, the UNSC/ONI have built a ship, which in the case Earth is destroyed, can start over in a new colony.


This was a long time ago, I think it may be referring to the Infinity, which probably has colony creation abilities, if the Dignitary isn't lying.

[Edited on 06.24.2012 2:02 AM PDT]

  • 06.24.2012 1:55 AM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?

In the 11-year old interview of Jason Jones he talks a bit about Halo lore, and mentions that after the fall of Reach UNSC started to move industrial assets out of Sol, altough I'm not sure if that can be counted as official canon.

link

  • 06.24.2012 2:48 AM PDT

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Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

  • 06.24.2012 4:51 AM PDT


Posted by: halo odst 117 MC
Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

Mmmmmm, yes; 23 billion innocent casualties is perfectly fine, but I feel the Covenant could have tried a little harder to wipe out the human race.
OT: You will always find conflicting sources of canon, however It's certain that the main brunt of Truth's forces were focused ultimately on Africa and the portal. Besides, there is plenty of other sources that say other cities were attack, for example Cleveland, Ohio. I forgot what the book is called, it was written and illustrated by two Marvel comics guys: Bendis and Maleev.

  • 06.24.2012 12:08 PM PDT


Posted by: MattTheGreat2117

Posted by: halo odst 117 MC
Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

Mmmmmm, yes; 23 billion innocent casualties is perfectly fine, but I feel the Covenant could have tried a little harder to wipe out the human race.
OT: You will always find conflicting sources of canon, however It's certain that the main brunt of Truth's forces were focused ultimately on Africa and the portal. Besides, there is plenty of other sources that say other cities were attack, for example Cleveland, Ohio. I forgot what the book is called, it was written and illustrated by two Marvel comics guys: Bendis and Maleev.


Yeah, but Cleveland and Sydney are the only two other cities that received a major attack according to what I read.

  • 06.24.2012 12:58 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Sigma617
Kind of off topic, but why is it in every science fiction we only have defenses at Earth?

In Halo you think it would be extremely important to have all your bases covered in Sol especially since Reach fell.

The UNSC should have had a Fleet stationed on Mars with limited ODP support (for -blam!-'s sake, Mars had the largest military manufacturing plants and shipyards in Human Space) and a reserve Fleet in the Asteroid Belt and Jovian Moons.

I know that an enemy like the Covenant wouldn't just move in at sublight from the Oort cloud, but if they had defenses strewn around the entirety of the Sol system they could have trapped the Covies at Earth in a vice.

I suppose it all came down to money and production times. Guess an extinction event still can't overwrite the economy.

Actually i am not so sure as how fortified it was, but the covenant were aiming for earth, which is why they pulled back to earth.

Also i think ONI thought they may have been screwed so decided to do what the former great hero did and move their people out of that system, in hopes of restarting somewhere in quiet. Lay low and when necessary return for vengence.

  • 06.24.2012 1:43 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Most likely after the first wave of Regrets fleet which was easily contained, the UNSC started evacuating civilian populatuion to other safe zones or systems for safe keeping, and were later used as the man power to rebuild. I doubt more than even half of Earths populace was left on the planet after the first battle.

  • 06.24.2012 2:29 PM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: HipiO7
Most likely after the first wave of Regrets fleet which was easily contained, the UNSC started evacuating civilian populatuion to other safe zones or systems for safe keeping, and were later used as the man power to rebuild. I doubt more than even half of Earths populace was left on the planet after the first battle.


A planetwide evac?

I'm sure there were millions that refused to leave there home only to watch it burn from Orbit. Besides that, I don't think the UNSC could launch such a desperate defense and a planetary evac at the same time.


I don't doubt they could evac people to other sol system planets...

I just find it funny that those ships wouldn't be taken out of the sky by the Covenant fleet as it moves on Earth.

  • 06.24.2012 10:22 PM PDT

Well ONI just kinda pulled MJOLNIR Gen 2 right of their ass so... 343 better address that.

  • 06.24.2012 10:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: MattTheGreat2117

Posted by: halo odst 117 MC
Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

Mmmmmm, yes; 23 billion innocent casualties is perfectly fine, but I feel the Covenant could have tried a little harder to wipe out the human race.
OT: You will always find conflicting sources of canon, however It's certain that the main brunt of Truth's forces were focused ultimately on Africa and the portal. Besides, there is plenty of other sources that say other cities were attack, for example Cleveland, Ohio. I forgot what the book is called, it was written and illustrated by two Marvel comics guys: Bendis and Maleev.
The Covenant didn't consider humanity a major threat. Just a annoyance.


OT: If you were planning an planet wide invasion but considered one area more valuable, then you would spread out some forces and not keep your entire fleet in one area.

  • 06.24.2012 10:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: ansac11

Posted by: MattTheGreat2117

Posted by: halo odst 117 MC
Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

Mmmmmm, yes; 23 billion innocent casualties is perfectly fine, but I feel the Covenant could have tried a little harder to wipe out the human race.
OT: You will always find conflicting sources of canon, however It's certain that the main brunt of Truth's forces were focused ultimately on Africa and the portal. Besides, there is plenty of other sources that say other cities were attack, for example Cleveland, Ohio. I forgot what the book is called, it was written and illustrated by two Marvel comics guys: Bendis and Maleev.
The Covenant didn't consider humanity a major threat. Just a annoyance.


OT: If you were planning an planet wide invasion but considered one area more valuable, then you would spread out some forces and not keep your entire fleet in one area.


Of course they considered Humanity a threat. We were the only species in millennia that put up a fight against them.

The Covenant were just getting desperate and tried to push their way to the Ark.

Uhh lol real? The only reason we won is the flood. That is what made them desperate, not us... They outnumbered and outgunned us. We never had a fighting chance..

  • 06.25.2012 3:39 AM PDT


Posted by: tjal

Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: ansac11

Posted by: MattTheGreat2117

Posted by: halo odst 117 MC
Very interesting I think the battle of earth went ok but it could have been worse.

Mmmmmm, yes; 23 billion innocent casualties is perfectly fine, but I feel the Covenant could have tried a little harder to wipe out the human race.
OT: You will always find conflicting sources of canon, however It's certain that the main brunt of Truth's forces were focused ultimately on Africa and the portal. Besides, there is plenty of other sources that say other cities were attack, for example Cleveland, Ohio. I forgot what the book is called, it was written and illustrated by two Marvel comics guys: Bendis and Maleev.
The Covenant didn't consider humanity a major threat. Just a annoyance.


OT: If you were planning an planet wide invasion but considered one area more valuable, then you would spread out some forces and not keep your entire fleet in one area.


Of course they considered Humanity a threat. We were the only species in millennia that put up a fight against them.

The Covenant were just getting desperate and tried to push their way to the Ark.

Uhh lol real? The only reason we won is the flood. That is what made them desperate, not us... They outnumbered and outgunned us. We never had a fighting chance..


Actually, the only reason we won is because truth betrayed the elites. At the end when High Charity fell to the flood, he rushed to the Ark, and purposefully backstabbed the Elites.

Then, the Elites arrived and saved us. So yeah, the flood might been a small factor, but the ONLY real reason humanity survived halo 3 is because the elites joined humans against the brutes and Truth.

  • 06.25.2012 3:56 AM PDT
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Ah yesh, forgot that part.
However don't take the flood lightly, they destroyed a large portion of the fleet at delta halo and took over high charity. Combined factors in my opinion. If it wasn't for the flood, a lot more elites would have been alive.
I like to believe that Truth send the elites to their deaths against the flood and spared the brutes.

But still, what the other guy said was nonsense. They were never desperate. We were just "lucky."

  • 06.25.2012 4:39 AM PDT

I'd say the civil war destroyed more of the fleet. Cause they mentioned a blockade on 05 and high charity, and the floodship in halo 3 was the only infected one to break through.

  • 06.25.2012 4:43 AM PDT
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That one broke through does imply that there were more to ensure the breakthrough.
But I suppose you're right. There aren't any numbers on how much the flood/ civil war destroyed though.

  • 06.25.2012 4:46 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: Sigma617
Posted by: HipiO7
Most likely after the first wave of Regrets fleet which was easily contained, the UNSC started evacuating civilian populatuion to other safe zones or systems for safe keeping, and were later used as the man power to rebuild. I doubt more than even half of Earths populace was left on the planet after the first battle.


A planetwide evac?

I'm sure there were millions that refused to leave there home only to watch it burn from Orbit. Besides that, I don't think the UNSC could launch such a desperate defense and a planetary evac at the same time.


I don't doubt they could evac people to other sol system planets...

I just find it funny that those ships wouldn't be taken out of the sky by the Covenant fleet as it moves on Earth.


How time did the UNSC have between Regrets fleet and Truths fleet?

I´m sure the UNSC had planet wide evacuation protocoles already in effect for the possible loss of the planet to the Covenant. We already saw how Tribute had a planet wide civilian evacuation during the battle in orbit.

  • 06.25.2012 9:23 AM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: Sigma617
Posted by: HipiO7
Most likely after the first wave of Regrets fleet which was easily contained, the UNSC started evacuating civilian populatuion to other safe zones or systems for safe keeping, and were later used as the man power to rebuild. I doubt more than even half of Earths populace was left on the planet after the first battle.


A planetwide evac?

I'm sure there were millions that refused to leave there home only to watch it burn from Orbit. Besides that, I don't think the UNSC could launch such a desperate defense and a planetary evac at the same time.


I don't doubt they could evac people to other sol system planets...

I just find it funny that those ships wouldn't be taken out of the sky by the Covenant fleet as it moves on Earth.


How time did the UNSC have between Regrets fleet and Truths fleet?

I´m sure the UNSC had planet wide evacuation protocoles already in effect for the possible loss of the planet to the Covenant. We already saw how Tribute had a planet wide civilian evacuation during the battle in orbit.


Which one was tribute?

Also, the gap between Regret jumping out (I doubt his fleet lasted very long at all), and Truth's reinforcements coming in was... hours I think at most.

Truth arrived personally much later with a few extra ships, but the first reinforcements came early.

  • 06.25.2012 10:24 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Which one was tribute?

Also, the gap between Regret jumping out (I doubt his fleet lasted very long at all), and Truth's reinforcements coming in was... hours I think at most.

Truth arrived personally much later with a few extra ships, but the first reinforcements came early.


Tribute was a planet in the Epsilon Eridani system I believe, in which Dutch partook in it´s evacuation of the civilian population. The fleet covering the whole process suffered losses higher than 90%, but the evacuation was succesful, dispite the tremendous cost.

Tribute is in the start of Contact Harvest, where Johnson is with Bryne taking out rebels and later goes to that restaurant with the trucker on a Hornet and all that. Of course, this was decades before the Covenant attack.

Also, I´m pretty sure from the moment Regrets fleet was detected, strings were pulled and the evacuation of major population centers were being done as the battle in orbit took place.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 4:28 AM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 4:25 AM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

I've always pictured a month-long space Battle with the 300 ODPs and the home fleet holding out against waves of Covenant ships before they finally fall right about when Halo 3 starts.

  • 06.26.2012 7:31 AM PDT

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