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Subject: S-IVs almost as good as S-IIIs?

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Volunteers will never rack up to being trained from childhood in the arts of war the Spartan II´s and Spartan III´s were. They might have been in some tough and dirty ops, but never the ammout or level the Spartans have been put through.

The Spartan II´s and III´s are much more cold and effective killers, with basically none of them breaking down during combat as volunteers could very easily. Spartan´s don´t care if they die as long as the mission is complete, their duty complete. I doubt these volunteers share the same mindset.

  • 06.27.2012 10:45 AM PDT
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Don't do anything you wouldn't want to have to explain to paramedics. Trust me, I'm a pilot.


Posted by: im the next halo
Yeah but you're missing the point here. Previous programs have trained the children from young age and so forth till now and they've been facing groups larger than the IV's haven't faced and would die trying to attack. These are IV's. They don't possess perfect bodies, perfect minds and haven't faced all the threats yet. Who knows? Half this program could be wiped out like the III's. The II's and III's were raised at young age and brought to physical perfection, even more with the augmentations. III's augmentations were 100% success because of the increase in medical study and discoveries for biomedical research. It's like deadliest warrior here, but I'm talking consistent giberish here. My main point is they aren't on par with most of the previous programs. They can't beat MC. He's an MCPON and has seen much battle, he's a natural leader who is on par with every other SPARTAN. He also runs around with an advanced AI giving him enhanced fighting chances. These IV's are like pawns on chess. MC is like the king. He knows all moves. Same thing goes with Kelly who is still the greatest sniper out there, Kurt who has an ability to detect danger, like a sixth sense, more like an ambush. Frederic whose basically like a second MC. I can go on, but I just don't like these new SPARTANs because it kills the purpose and the orginality of ORION/SPARTAN project(s) anyway.


Yes, previous programs did train children from a young age, and, as a result, they became the best soldiers they could be. As for taking on larger groups, that could be due partly to the fact that S-IIs had MJOLNIR, which is shielded. In all of the Halo books and games, any marine or ODST does not last long while getting shot at. Who could blame them, considering the fact that they are getting hit will a ball of ionized gas thousands of degrees Celsius, held together only by a magnetic field? The shields allowed the S-IIs to take greater risks, thus allowing them to take down larger groups of enemies and be more effective on the battlefield.

While I can see that the S-IVs haven't seen the type of action normally seen by previous generations, they have still seen a lot of action, and they are still highly experienced. I fail to see how this would be any hindrance to them. Additionally, though I don't think the S-IVs are going to be decimated like the majority of S-IIIs, as they are being issued better equipment; specifically MJOLNIR. The S-IIIs weren't issued MJOLNIR because one suit costs as much as a starship, and the S-IIIs were deemed expendable. The S-IIs and S-IIIs were raised from a young age to be highly effective soldiers, but, considering the fact that the S-IVs are comprised of former special forces operatives, I highly doubt that they are inexperienced. I'm sure that previous generations of Spartans are better with execution of their training, simply because that's the only thing they've ever done.

As for the augmentations, while the medical advances did allow for a 100% survival rate, the fact that no invasive surgery was required was also a big contributing factor. I could list all of the procedures required for the S-II augmentations, but, in order to save space, I highly recommend you refresh yourself with the procedures and Project CHRYSANTHEMUM.

As for your opinion on their overall inferiority, consider the overall picture: they are highly experienced soldiers, augmented (presumably) to be on par with an S-III, given superior training equivalent to what a Spartan would get, and outfitted with MJOLNIR. The reason why Fred, Kelly, and John were so amazing is because they have lived and breathed war all of their lives; they can sense danger a mile off, and know how to react to it. I'm sure that, if the S-IIIs were given that same opportunity, they would be the exact same way. I'm sure that, in time (in order to get used to their augmentations and MJOLNIR) that the S-IVs will be the exact same way.

Finally, the purpose of ORION was to create highly effective soldiers with new equipment, biomedical procedures, and training method with adult volunteers. If anything, the S-IV program succeeded where ORION fell short.

Will every soldier become an S-IV? No. It's still an elite group; probably the equivalent of a marine being selected to join the ODSTs. Are they still Spartans? Yes. They have been given the training, equipment, and augmentations, haven't they? Do we truly know how effective they are in combat at this very moment in time? No. My whole argument is based upon reasoning and canon, but realistically, all we have is reasoning and canon at the moment, don't we?

  • 06.27.2012 6:53 PM PDT

It's not Hip-Hop, its Electro.... prick.

I want to know more about the spartan IV's. It seems like they just keep adding spartans...

[Edited on 06.27.2012 8:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2012 7:33 PM PDT

Posted by: UphillMercury
As for your opinion on their overall inferiority, consider the overall picture: they are highly experienced soldiers, augmented (presumably) to be on par with an S-III, given superior training equivalent to what a Spartan would get, and outfitted with MJOLNIR.
A lifetime of Spartan training cannot be crammed into about 4 years.

  • 06.27.2012 9:47 PM PDT
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The previous programs were bred for war, built for combat. They don't fear. Not even death. The IV's were once Marines, ODSTs, and they did fear. Not because of their disadvantages. I'm being subjective here as well. III's were enhanced but poorly equipped with SPI armor, yet they still went in killing about 5 Zealots single handlingly. SPARTANs were to be special. Not even heard about. TO even increase moral they were listed as MIA even if KIA. Now that adults can enter just kills the concept, yet even if biomedical research proves adults can now be augmented without failure. That shielding doesn't stay up forever. SPARTANs rely purely on their intellect to win as well. They aren't just fools on steroids. III's were made not to be much like the II's, but in shere numbers and afterwards other III's will live on to train, recreate, or create other SPARTANs. I know all the requirements for II and III. II's received implants as well. They weren't just given drugs. ORION was the first thought, but wasn't successful. Hasley created the SPARTAN project and was a big success. It also subjectively and objectively inspired more work on it and continuous similar projects related to SPARTAN. These are Adults being drugged and put into new armor without prior preperation to being what they are now much like the II's and III's. I respect the Marines and the ODSTS, but these are SPARTANs. They should remain how it was planned prior and continue.

Primarily, I'm just like a fan boy who thinks Halo 2 is kicking rears whilst Halo 4 is the new thing. The old time kind of fan boy, so generally in the same concept I am with the SPARTAN program. ORION was what it was, not a success, but so much with SPARTAN programs whereas it should just stay with SPARTAN programs.

Truly I am not one to judge for as well I am speaking canon and we have not see these IV's in combat. Again you can agree though, these IV's aren't going to be on par with the War Heros the III's and II's produced. Especially MC. Not because he's the protonganist, but because he was a natural leader and fought for most of what he has and earned, with the plus being his luck.

  • 06.27.2012 10:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
Volunteers will never rack up to being trained from childhood in the arts of war the Spartan II´s and Spartan III´s were. They might have been in some tough and dirty ops, but never the ammout or level the Spartans have been put through.

The Spartan II´s and III´s are much more cold and effective killers, with basically none of them breaking down during combat as volunteers could very easily. Spartan´s don´t care if they die as long as the mission is complete, their duty complete. I doubt these volunteers share the same mindset.
My point exactly. THE SPARTAN'S DON'T FEAR. They were at a young age given these tasks a little boy would go insane from. They took it in with dignity and turned it into integrity, courage, and strength. They were not trained to fear. Especially when an alien race attempts at destroying their species. The IV's were once fearing with such freight, not because they were poorly equipped, but because their enemies were like devils that no matter how many times they shot they'd still be slashed by an energy sword. Spartan's were trained to fight, physically and mentally enhanced to prepare for the fight. They did this as many times to win the war, and it's more than just muscle memory to them now. They breath the tactics. They stand out more than a regular ops would. It's all belief, but I'm sure especially in reality the SPARTANs are more of an asset than a IV would. They didn't prepare 1/2 their life for intense battle like the II's and III's have.

  • 06.27.2012 10:42 PM PDT

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