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This topic has moved here: Subject: Does the Bungie Community consider video games to be an art form?
  • Subject: Does the Bungie Community consider video games to be an art form?
Subject: Does the Bungie Community consider video games to be an art form?

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

So, by that logic, music is not art... Because I mean, I find listening to music fun.

Posted by: ctjl96
Nope. Vidya games are vidya games. They're for fun. They're not art. Is baseball art? Nay.

  • 06.26.2012 3:31 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

Member of KOTOR

Keer-Meet
God of Destruction

Yup.

  • 06.26.2012 3:32 PM PDT

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I see how you've directly linked the definition of art with video games, but I dislike your opinion so no.

Dude no. I see where you're coming from but as I've said before, meeting the definition isn't really enough for it to be considered art.

Actually, I amend that. Video games are technically art. But they're art only on a technicality and thus not really "quality art".
Posted by: RigZ Boi
So, by that logic, music is not art... Because I mean, I find listening to music fun.

Posted by: ctjl96
Nope. Vidya games are vidya games. They're for fun. They're not art. Is baseball art? Nay.
Music is expressive.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:33 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:32 PM PDT


Posted by: ctjl96
Meh. Yes, I suppose on a technicality, it's art. However, I don't really consider it art simply because it "fits the description". Again, I feel that something has to be expressive in order to qualify as art, and games are made to amuse people, and here you (and DeeJ, obviously, he works for a company that makes them, I'm not surprised) are putting them up on some sort of pedestal.

"I could apply those same words to a job description on our Careers page."
This is exactly why meeting the description is not enough. If you are too close-minded to grasp what I'm getting at then I will resume my silence because I doubt I'll be able to reason with a crowd of butthurt Bungie.net users that consider their hobbies to be an expressive form of feeling. Hell, I don't even like art, and I know video games aren't art.
William Shakespeare's plays were written for a competitive, commercial and popular theatre.ZOMG SHAKESPEARE WROTE HIS PLAYS TO MAKE MONEY SINCE WHEN?!!


And something can't be "expressive" and "amuse people" at the same time? If painting is a hobby, it's not art? Why do we have art galleries, then? Are they not meant to "amuse people"?

Please do "resume your silence". That's probably the best thing you could do at this point.

You're right about one thing, Urk was wrong.

Anyone who says that video games do not deserve to be regarded as art are going out of their way to demonstrate a basic lack of understanding for the medium of interactive entertainment. Either that, or they are just a snob who wishes that berets were still in style.

He should have said "also", not "either".

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:34 PM PDT

Posted by: coolmike699
If painting is a hobby, it's not art?

Are you implying painting is art? The actual act of painting?Posted by: coolmike699
Please do "resume your silence". That's probably the best thing you could do at this point.

oooh ouch burn i'm so embarrassed you're so witty and sharp

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:35 PM PDT

You can elevate any activity about which you are truly passionate to the level of Art. Sure, some of you will never relate to playing a game as more than a competitive pastime - and that is just fine. Yet, there are athletes who consider themselves artists. The line gets blurry when someone adopts a discipline and works tirelessly to perfect their craft.

I have seen Banshee pilots who can wield thier winged-craft in a dance that would make the Blue Angels say "Wow!" I have seen creations in Forge that put real architects to shame. I have seen Snipers that were like calligraphers in their precision with an implement.

The thing about Art is that it is completely subjective. No one can tell you what Art is, or define those boundaries for you. It's a personal decision. So, debate this all you want, but all of you are exactly right in your own minds. That's all that counts.

I don't feel a thing when I look at the Mona Lisa. When I play Halo, the hair can stand up on the back of my neck.

  • 06.26.2012 3:35 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

So you're saying that video games are not expressive?

- Definition of expressive: Effectively conveying thought or feeling.
- Definition of art: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination.

Feel free to ask any game developer, and I'm almost certain that most of them would say their games convey thought or feeling.

Posted by: RigZ Boi
So, by that logic, music is not art... Because I mean, I find listening to music fun.

Posted by: ctjl96
Nope. Vidya games are vidya games. They're for fun. They're not art. Is baseball art? Nay.[/quote]
Music is expressive.

  • 06.26.2012 3:38 PM PDT

Posted by: DeeJ
So what you mean to say is that it all varies from person to person, is all a matter of opinion, entirely subjective, and you should not judge based on it? Wow, it's almost like that's what I've been saying the whole time!

I actually appreciate the logical way you explained that, as opposed to the completely biased scolding that I expected.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:40 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:39 PM PDT
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Roger Ebert says no, case closed.

  • 06.26.2012 3:40 PM PDT

"I'm uncomfortable."
-True Underdog
Young Grasshopper of The Year: ChorrizoTapatio 2012

A little bit of sausage, a little bit of hot sauce, a whole lot of awesome. Have a question? Ask me!
Chapter


Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
Roger Ebert says no, case closed.


Well....I disagree. Strongly.

  • 06.26.2012 3:41 PM PDT


Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: DeeJ
So what you mean to say is that it all varies from person to person, is all a matter of opinion, entirely subjective, and you should not judge based on it? Wow, it's almost like that's what I've been saying the whole time!

I actually appreciate the logical way you explained that, thanks for that.


If you don't want your opinions to be judged, then don't talk.

If we think your opinions are irrational and silly, well then that's what we're going to say. That doesn't mean you aren't entitled to them.

  • 06.26.2012 3:42 PM PDT

Posted by: ChorrizoTapatio

Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
Roger Ebert says no, case closed.


Well....I disagree. Strongly.

Feel free to elaborate, hopefully it's not a generic opinion. Although that being said Roger Ebert isn't exactly someone I would cite for my argument.
Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: DeeJ
So what you mean to say is that it all varies from person to person, is all a matter of opinion, entirely subjective, and you should not judge based on it? Wow, it's almost like that's what I've been saying the whole time!

I actually appreciate the logical way you explained that, thanks for that.


If you don't want your opinions to be judged, then don't talk.

If we think your opinions are irrational and silly, well then that's what we're going to say. That doesn't mean you aren't entitled to them.

And now we can't read. Great.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:44 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:42 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Someones jimmies have been rustled.

Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: DeeJ
So what you mean to say is that it all varies from person to person, is all a matter of opinion, entirely subjective, and you should not judge based on it? Wow, it's almost like that's what I've been saying the whole time!

I actually appreciate the logical way you explained that, as opposed to the completely biased scolding that I expected.

  • 06.26.2012 3:44 PM PDT

Posted by: RigZ Boi
Someones jimmies have been rustled.

Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: DeeJ
So what you mean to say is that it all varies from person to person, is all a matter of opinion, entirely subjective, and you should not judge based on it? Wow, it's almost like that's what I've been saying the whole time!

I actually appreciate the logical way you explained that, as opposed to the completely biased scolding that I expected.

Thank you for that completely cancerous, nonsensical and seemingly random picture. That didn't quite go there, as that was probably my least butthurt post, but you might find yourself a bit more at home here.

  • 06.26.2012 3:47 PM PDT


Posted by: ctjl96
nonsensical and seemingly random .


I was looking for a way to describe the statement: "The components within it are art, but a video game isn't made to express some sort of intrinsic feeling or desire. I feel that art has to express something. Video games don't express anything." Thanks!

  • 06.26.2012 3:52 PM PDT

"I'm uncomfortable."
-True Underdog
Young Grasshopper of The Year: ChorrizoTapatio 2012

A little bit of sausage, a little bit of hot sauce, a whole lot of awesome. Have a question? Ask me!
Chapter

Posted by: ctjl96

Well, ask yourself: what is art? We all have different opinions on this but as for me, I believe art is something that stimulates your imagination. Paintings do this, music does this, television does this, movies do this, amd yes even video games do this. Art is also something that inspires you and all of the mentioned things above do this.

If this were false, there would be no fan fiction/fan art and things of the sort. Video games introduce you to new people, new worlds, and new stories that capture your imagination and often inspire you. That, to me, is art. Paintings, drawings, and even sculptures do this but video games do it in a different way.


[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:52 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:52 PM PDT

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
nonsensical and seemingly random .


I was looking for a way to describe the statement: "The components within it are art, but a video game isn't made to express some sort of intrinsic feeling or desire. I feel that art has to express something. Video games don't express anything." Thanks!

ouch again my feelings so clever and sharp at the tongue my heart hurts now because an online persona insulted my opinions :'(

  • 06.26.2012 3:57 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
nonsensical and seemingly random .


I was looking for a way to describe the statement: "The components within it are art, but a video game isn't made to express some sort of intrinsic feeling or desire. I feel that art has to express something. Video games don't express anything." Thanks!


to ctj's statement:

Video games can express a lot of things.

Many things in video games (like the colors you see, the environment, the music, etc) can have some significant meaning or create a unique story.

I think video games can be an experience and often in many video games there is a massive story that is portrayed through art, music, and clever writing.

Movies are considered art, I don't see why video games wouldn't be art.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 3:58 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 3:57 PM PDT

They are most definitely art.

  • 06.26.2012 4:02 PM PDT
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Some games are art.
But it's often difficult to call it so when games are treated like a franchise, with books, toys, movies, clothing, etc are crafted around it. When you have questionable DLC, with game content removed and sold on day for an extra fee.

Some games are art, most are not.
I agree though, a lot of artist work on video games, but great artists flipping burgers at Burger king, does not make burgers art.


[Edited on 06.26.2012 4:07 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
nonsensical and seemingly random .


I was looking for a way to describe the statement: "The components within it are art, but a video game isn't made to express some sort of intrinsic feeling or desire. I feel that art has to express something. Video games don't express anything." Thanks!

ouch again my feelings so clever and sharp at the tongue my heart hurts now because an online persona insulted my opinions :'(


I'm not insulting your opinion. I'm insulting your self contradictions and lack of sense, and clumsiness with this argument.

"Fully and completely meeting the definition of something isn't enough to be it" makes absolutely no sense.

  • 06.26.2012 4:05 PM PDT

Dead Mans Hand-Always Loaded.

I WAS SOCK

Posted by: RC 1207 Sev
They are most definitely art.
Agreed.

  • 06.26.2012 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: just another fan
Some games are art.
But it's often difficult to call it so when games are treated like a franchise, with books, toys, movies, clothing, etc are crafted around it. When you have questionable DLC, with game content removed and sold on day for an extra fee.
Some games could be art, most are not.
I agree though, a lot of artist work on video games, but great painters flipping burgers at Burger king, does not make burgers art.


Why are you tying the commercial aspect of games to the artistic aspect of them? Furthermore, what do the products crafted around the game have to do with the artistic aspect of the game itself? To use your example, burgers have nothing to do with painting. Just like the commercial aspects of a game have nothing to do with the artistic ones.

Did you see my Shakespeare argument on the first page? Check it out.

  • 06.26.2012 4:11 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: just another fan
Some games are art.
But it's often difficult to call it so when games are treated like a franchise, with books, toys, movies, clothing, etc are crafted around it. When you have questionable DLC, with game content removed and sold on day for an extra fee.

Some games are art, most are not.
I agree though, a lot of artist work on video games, but great artists flipping burgers at Burger king, does not make burgers art.


You could think of DLC like another volume in a book being sold.

But all those things, movies, clothes, (design/fashion), etc can be considered art themselves.

Look at Harry Potter for example, the popular book turned into a popular movie or lets look at the Avengers, they are comic book heros. Comics are a form of art.

I don't think it is fair to judge if the product is art because of added attachments.

  • 06.26.2012 4:13 PM PDT

Dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum ©
Halo 3 Longshore playable on Team Fortress 2 vids

Everything around you is art!

  • 06.26.2012 4:16 PM PDT