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  • Subject: Does the Bungie Community consider video games to be an art form?
Subject: Does the Bungie Community consider video games to be an art form?

I ♥ Bungie!

I honestly do think of video games to be art, I mean they create 3-dementional images in which you can move and engage in the invoroment. THAT is art.

  • 06.26.2012 4:17 PM PDT

Posted by: T1B3R7uMB0YXVI
Everything around you is art!

  • 06.26.2012 4:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolmike699
To use your example, burgers have nothing to do with painting.
And painting has nothing to do with video games either. The concept artists don't have to be working on video games or movies to do their art. To me, art is something you do for yourself. Something you can learn from. perhaps you want others to learn from it. So give it to them and let them learn from it. Don't bloody sell it.

If you paint a picture and sell it, you sold a picture, not a piece of art. Art is something you treasure and possible share or give away. Not something you charge for.

You can't seriously call yourself an artist by writing a book, then ripping out a chapter and sell it for ten more bucks. You can call yourself a writer, sure. A good one, a great one, even. I might even agree. But you won't find me calling that one particular book artistic, and it will surely diminish my chances of calling you an artist.

But this is (sort of) my definition of art and artists. A definition not everyone agrees with.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 4:35 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 4:26 PM PDT

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: ctjl96
nonsensical and seemingly random .


I was looking for a way to describe the statement: "The components within it are art, but a video game isn't made to express some sort of intrinsic feeling or desire. I feel that art has to express something. Video games don't express anything." Thanks!

ouch again my feelings so clever and sharp at the tongue my heart hurts now because an online persona insulted my opinions :'(


I'm not insulting your opinion. I'm insulting your self contradictions and lack of sense, and clumsiness with this argument.

"Fully and completely meeting the definition of something isn't enough to be it" makes absolutely no sense.

So this is in fact a question of your close-mindedness with which I cannot help you. Art is special.
Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: coolmike699
To use your example, burgers have nothing to do with painting.
And painting has nothing to do with video games either. The concept artists don't have to be working on video games or movies to do their art.

You can't seriously call yourself an artist by writing a book, then ripping out a chapter and sell it for ten more bucks. You can call yourself a writer, sure. A good one, a great one, even. I might even agree. But you won't find me calling that one particular book artistic, and it will surely diminish my chances of calling you an artist.
Yeah I agree; games are too much about profit for me to consider most of them art. Halo is perhaps an exception, because the storyline is so superb it might be a bit of an insult to not call it art.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 4:30 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 4:27 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

I think if anything I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

You can actually interact in this new world waiting to be explored.

I mean, what is more artistic and imaginative than creating an entire universe for people to explore and interact with?

  • 06.26.2012 4:32 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: ctjl96
Honestly, your opinion is irrelevant because video games fit into the definition of art. You've admitted it yourself. You may dislike that fact, but it's true.

If something fits into the definition of something, but just barely, it still belongs in that category.

A 13 year old is barely a teenager, but they still are.

  • 06.26.2012 4:39 PM PDT


Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: coolmike699
To use your example, burgers have nothing to do with painting.
And painting has nothing to do with video games either. The concept artists don't have to be working on video games or movies to do their art. To me, art is something you do for yourself. Something you can learn from. perhaps you want others to learn from it. So give it to them and let them learn from it. Don't bloody sell it.

If you paint a picture and sell it, you sold a picture, not a piece of art. Art is something you treasure and possible share or give away. Not something you charge for.

You can't seriously call yourself an artist by writing a book, then ripping out a chapter and sell it for ten more bucks. You can call yourself a writer, sure. A good one, a great one, even. I might even agree. But you won't find me calling that one particular book artistic, and it will surely diminish my chances of calling you an artist.

But this is my definition of art and artists.


Some of our greatest novels were originally printed in magazines, a chapter each publication. And, like I said a page ago, Shakespeare wrote his plays for a market, not for himself. Does this disqualify his writing from being art? Does it make his work less meaningful?

Why does the fact that something is sold change it from being art?

The quality of art is what is subjective, not the definition. The definition of art is set, and it has nothing to do with commerce.

  • 06.26.2012 4:41 PM PDT

Man of God. Fan of Bungie. Eater of many Jr. Bacon cheeseburgers.


Posted by: DeeJ
You can elevate any activity about which you are truly passionate to the level of Art. Sure, some of you will never relate to playing a game as more than a competitive pastime - and that is just fine. Yet, there are athletes who consider themselves artists. The line gets blurry when someone adopts a discipline and works tirelessly to perfect their craft.

I have seen Banshee pilots who can wield thier winged-craft in a dance that would make the Blue Angels say "Wow!" I have seen creations in Forge that put real architects to shame. I have seen Snipers that were like calligraphers in their precision with an implement.

The thing about Art is that it is completely subjective. No one can tell you what Art is, or define those boundaries for you. It's a personal decision. So, debate this all you want, but all of you are exactly right in your own minds. That's all that counts.

I don't feel a thing when I look at the Mona Lisa. When I play Halo, the hair can stand up on the back of my neck.


You're right. Many get so caught up in debating an expressing their opinion on the matter that they forget what it is in the end: A matter of opinion.

  • 06.26.2012 4:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolmike699
The quality of art is what is subjective, not the definition. The definition of art is set, and it has nothing to do with commerce.


"the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others" if this is the definition to go by, it's a wholly useless definition because that would make just about make everything an art. That's something I simply consider stupid. A spoon took creativity and imagination to be created and you can surely share it.

You can of course become more specific, just as video game arts. In which case, sure. video games are art. But in the broader picture? As I said, most definitions of art are not the ones I agree with. Especially the philosophical ones.

And you'd be surprised how few things i call art. You keep mentioning Shakespeare, but I have never called him an artist or his work art.

Going to sleep now. So you win, or something. A bit more seriously; definitions can change and defining art is an art form in itself. ;) So what definitions of art are available (there are a boatload of them! every dictionary has it's own one!), I pay little attention to.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 5:02 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 4:54 PM PDT

Key

Why wouldn't you use the definition Google gives you? It's Google, it's clearly right.

  • 06.26.2012 4:58 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

This argument is getting kind of heated.

0_0

Video games have many forms of art intertwined within them and people are crossed between is it art or not.

Certainly video games have many things non-art related like programming and in-game engines to read the code.

I think what gets people unsure is the fact video games provide a level of interactivity that is not seen in any other art form.

It is one thing to read a poem, view a picture, or watch a movie. But a video game goes one step farther, it transports you inside that "picture"" and you control what happens in that movie.

I am going to have to say it is art.

  • 06.26.2012 5:03 PM PDT


Posted by: just another fan
Posted by: coolmike699
The quality of art is what is subjective, not the definition. The definition of art is set, and it has nothing to do with commerce.


"the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others" if this is the definition to go by, it's a wholly useless definition because that would make just about make everything an art. That's something I simply consider stupid. A spoon took creativity and imagination to be created and you can surely share it.

You can of course become more specific, just as video game arts. In which case, sure. video games are art. But in the broader picture? As I said, most definitions of art are not the ones I agree with. Especially the philosophical ones.

And you'd be surprised how few things i call art. You keep mentioning Shakespeare, but I have never called him an artist or his work art.

Going to sleep now. So you win, or something. A bit more seriously; definitions can change and defining art is an art form in itself. ;) So what definitions of art are available, I pay little attention to.


Last year, my uncle sent us a very nice handcrafted spoon. I can't see why anyone wouldn't call it art.

Of course the definition of art makes almost anything art, that's the point. Arguing that games aren't "art" is pointless, because of course they are.

Now, we can argue over whether they're "good" art, or if they're at the same artistic level as anything else. But if we don't at least start with a set definition, the the debate is doomed to go nowhere.

  • 06.26.2012 5:03 PM PDT

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.

  • 06.26.2012 5:07 PM PDT

Key

Honestly, if you want to debate what the definition of art is and whether or not it's stupid, go make a thread about it in the flood.

Because, as it stands, with the commonly accepted definition of art, video games are an art-form.

  • 06.26.2012 5:08 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.

  • 06.26.2012 5:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolmike699
Last year, my uncle sent us a very nice handcrafted spoon. I can't see why anyone wouldn't call it art.

I wanted to mention some examples of spoons being art. Like a hand made one with sparkles and ponies drawn on it (I'm no spoon artist, don't judge me).
And as i said, I'd consider some games art, but certainly not all. But for me, art debate is more of a philosophical than factual one. And I certainly agree games could be art.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.

Or the point of art is that it has no definition. But that would mean art has the definition of not having a definition, therefor art is non-exis... oh -blam!- it. Now I'm really going to bed. I shouldn't be discussing these things while drinking.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 5:15 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 5:10 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.


Art can be considered many things and has any categories.

Art is different from person to person so I have to agree that many people will consider many different things art. I is evident from this thread that it is true.

I am going to stick with considering video games as art. It immerses you into it like I guess how some people can be immersed in other things like a good song or a poem, but more literal.

[Edited on 06.26.2012 5:14 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2012 5:12 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.


Art does have a definition. It's the people who are saying that "if it's commercial, it can't be art" who are wrong here.

Now, commercialism might decrease the value of the art to some people, which I think is silly but that's just me.

  • 06.26.2012 5:13 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

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Yes. Music, sight, sound, plot, interaction with it's audience. I'd argue that it has the most potential to be one of the great forms of art, in short time. I'd argue that it is already a form of art, although not widely considered to be.

  • 06.26.2012 5:24 PM PDT

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Bye.

I could write a long, drawn out, dull (and probably badly spelled) post on why "Games are an Art-form" and how "Art is completely subjective". But I don't want to bore anyone. So here's a short paragraph instead;

I've never thought of games directly as art. But I've always loved the skill, passion, craftsmanship and genius that went into it's development and creation. That is what I consider to be an art (in games development).

"Some people like what you made, and some people like how you made it."

  • 06.26.2012 5:26 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Izak609
Yes. Music, sight, sound, plot, interaction with it's audience. I'd argue that it has the most potential to be one of the great forms of art, in short time. I'd argue that it is already a form of art, although not widely considered to be.


Video games are relatively "new", especially to be seen as art.

For example, we have been drawing things since mankind lived in caves and hunted mammoths for food.

  • 06.26.2012 5:26 PM PDT

Old School Gamer and Proud Member of the Seventh Column

Video games are how stories are told now. Ask any middle school aged Halo players to I summarize the story and they will describe themes that have been explored in story beginning with Homer's "The Odyssey".

Video Games are most certainly art.

  • 06.26.2012 5:28 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.


Art does have a definition. It's the people who are saying that "if it's commercial, it can't be art" who are wrong here.

Now, commercialism might decrease the value of the art to some people, which I think is silly but that's just me.
I know art has a definition. But what DeeJ was saying is that it has no limits (essentially) and, therefore, no definition.

  • 06.26.2012 5:33 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I would say video games fully immerse you into art that watching a movie or looking at a painting can't.

Tell that to someone that is completely transported when they look at a Monet. You cannot define the boundaries of Art. It will mean different things to different people. There is no one truth about this.
Except for the fact that if Art has no definition then Art is not a thing.


Art does have a definition. It's the people who are saying that "if it's commercial, it can't be art" who are wrong here.

Now, commercialism might decrease the value of the art to some people, which I think is silly but that's just me.
I know art has a definition. But what DeeJ was saying is that it has no limits (essentially) and, therefore, no definition.


Art - the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others.

There are no limits within the definition. An idea isn't art until it's put into a form that can be shared. A tree isn't art, because it didn't take any skill or imagination to make.

  • 06.26.2012 5:37 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: coolmike699

Art - the use of skill and imagination in the creation of aesthetic objects, environments, or experiences that can be shared with others.

There are no limits within the definition. An idea isn't art until it's put into a form that can be shared. A tree isn't art, because it didn't take any skill or imagination to make.
So a cookie is in the same category as Starry Night because a preschooler shared it with his buddy and it took skill to make?

  • 06.26.2012 5:39 PM PDT