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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
  • Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
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Whatever the issue with dual wielding, I have to agree with an earlier poster who said they had much more fun with Halo CE.

Regarding the singeplayer - I played the game for about four years, barely missing a day to play the campaign. I loved multiplayer too but it was the single player that really got me excited.

However - with halo 2 - although I found it fun, dual wielding did feel like a bit of a gimmick, especially when I started player MP and realised that a single DW weapon against pretty much anything was pretty much nothing.

I got tired of Halo 2 SP fairly quickly - the levels and weapons just weren't as fun.

And sure, the multiplayer is a very, very fun experience - I've played many games on live. But I still feel that they ruined some of it. For a start, the view you get is closer in than Halo CE - DW makes everything unfair (lets not have that argument here please) - and as good as lockout is, it aint -blam- on wizard and prisoner.

Anywho - I understand dual wielding can't (rather than shouldn't) be removed, but I'm a little dissapointed. I know I'd enjoy it more if the game felt more like CE.

  • 06.12.2006 9:27 AM PDT

Posted by: DocRobotnik
Whatever the issue with dual wielding, I have to agree with an earlier poster who said they had much more fun with Halo CE.

Regarding the singeplayer - I played the game for about four years, barely missing a day to play the campaign. I loved multiplayer too but it was the single player that really got me excited.

However - with halo 2 - although I found it fun, dual wielding did feel like a bit of a gimmick, especially when I started player MP and realised that a single DW weapon against pretty much anything was pretty much nothing.

I got tired of Halo 2 SP fairly quickly - the levels and weapons just weren't as fun.

And sure, the multiplayer is a very, very fun experience - I've played many games on live. But I still feel that they ruined some of it. For a start, the view you get is closer in than Halo CE - DW makes everything unfair (lets not have that argument here please) - and as good as lockout is, it aint -blam- on wizard and prisoner.

Anywho - I understand dual wielding can't (rather than shouldn't) be removed, but I'm a little dissapointed. I know I'd enjoy it more if the game felt more like CE.

I have to agree with that. They could still make it feel like CE with Dual weilding in there. Bungie's good, they'll figure something out.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 9:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: axehand117
They cant just drop it anyway. The Master Chief couldn't, then could, then couldn't? That wouldn't make sense unless he has like a stroke or something.


Oh, and for people who keep saying things like this, please think about how ridiculous you sound -

Master chief can flip a tank, but can't hold a pair of smg's still??? Logic? No.

He could only carry one weapon at a time in CE, but then suddenly realised that he could hold two!? No, it DOESN'T make any sense.

Oh, and in Halo CE, MC could throw grenades across maps! Now you'd be lucky to get it half the distance... Don't for one second try and tell me that this example doesn't directly corrolate with your 'you couldn't remove it because it wouldn't make sense' bull -blam- theories.

If they wanted to they COULD remove it, but the backlash would be too harsh from DW lovers, so they won't.



[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 9:32 AM PDT
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No dual wieldin would be like de-volving... this is stupid, if there was no more dual wielding the weapon combos wouldnt be as interesting.

  • 06.12.2006 9:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: HBNDonut
No dual wieldin would be like de-volving... this is stupid


Read above post and then say that again.

Is lessening MC's ability to throw grenades that also seem to have lost power not also 'devolving'?

And yes, it is stupid :) It's stupid that so many of you think that weapons/items/vehicles/ all have to be integrated in such a way that they make sense. History states that they don't, so deal with it and discuss the pro's and cons of DW. Don't spam the thread with whining rants about how it wouldn't make sense - all that tells me is that it's the best reason you have for keeping DW.

  • 06.12.2006 9:37 AM PDT
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NO!! i love dual its one of the things that make halo 2 great for what it is

  • 06.12.2006 9:39 AM PDT
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I have a possible reason for removing dual weilding that they can put in the storyline

Master Chief's new suit had trackers put into the armor plates on his gloves that altered the angle of his wrists allowing him to "accurately" fire two weapons at a single target without using the weapons sights, it also held both weapons on a single targeting reticule on his HUD, that is why he can't fire at two different targets with his guns, but, the crash landing on Earth in the forerunner ship damaged his suit and ruined the "dual-target trackers" in his gloves, so he removed the affected armor plates with a micro repair kit housed in the leg-portion of the suit, if he hadn't his aim would be so poor he wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a hunter.

What do you think?

  • 06.12.2006 9:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Elite2188
NO!! i love dual its one of the things that make halo 2 great for what it is


Saying NO!!! louder doesn't make your point valid. Explain

  • 06.12.2006 9:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Silberner Drache
I have a possible reason for removing dual weilding that they can put in the storyline

Master Chief's new suit had trackers put into the armor plates on his gloves that altered the angle of his wrists allowing him to "accurately" fire two weapons at a single target without using the weapons sights, it also held both weapons on a single targeting reticule on his HUD, that is why he can't fire at two different targets with his guns, but, the crash landing on Earth in the forerunner ship damaged his suit and ruined the "dual-target trackers" in his gloves, so he removed the affected armor plates with a micro repair kit housed in the leg-portion of the suit, if he hadn't his aim would be so poor he wouldn't be able to hit the broad side of a hunter.

What do you think?


Not bad actually :) It would mean a lot of awkward expostion but it's a good an idea as I've heard. Nice effort.

  • 06.12.2006 9:47 AM PDT
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wow, I expected a flame, thanks.

  • 06.12.2006 9:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Silberner Drache
wow, I expected a flame, thanks.


you're welcome. I don't flame - it's childish and unproductive.

  • 06.12.2006 9:51 AM PDT

Posted by: DocRobotnik
Posted by: axehand117
They cant just drop it anyway. The Master Chief couldn't, then could, then couldn't? That wouldn't make sense unless he has like a stroke or something.


Oh, and for people who keep saying things like this, please think about how ridiculous you sound -

Master chief can flip a tank, but can't hold a pair of smg's still??? Logic? No.

He could only carry one weapon at a time in CE, but then suddenly realised that he could hold two!? No, it DOESN'T make any sense.

Oh, and in Halo CE, MC could throw grenades across maps! Now you'd be lucky to get it half the distance... Don't for one second try and tell me that this example doesn't directly corrolate with your 'you couldn't remove it because it wouldn't make sense' bull -blam- theories.

If they wanted to they COULD remove it, but the backlash would be too harsh from DW lovers, so they won't.


? What do you mean? How could you say that sounds stupid? Videogame or not it would be absolutely ridiculous removing it. If you learn a new skill do you forget everything about it the next day? Adding it in was ok, but taking it out AFTER you already could do it? Its not possible.

  • 06.12.2006 9:55 AM PDT
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i before e except after c or words beginning like neigh.

  • 06.12.2006 9:56 AM PDT
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[/quote]
? What do you mean? How could you say that sounds stupid? Videogame or not it would be absolutely ridiculous removing it. If you learn a new skill do you forget everything about it the next day? Adding it in was ok, but taking it out AFTER you already could do it? Its not possible.[/quote]

Axehand, please read this:

Oh, and in Halo CE, MC could throw grenades across maps! Now you'd be lucky to get it half the distance...

How do you explain why MC can't throw grenades as far as he used to? huh? You're right, once you've learnt a new skill you SHOULDN'T be able to forget it, but with the grenade issue, Bungie have already done it! So what's to say they wouldn't again?

Now please reply with an answer - don't repeat yourself again.

  • 06.12.2006 9:59 AM PDT

They did that because it helped the game feel better during multiplayer, i think grenades feel good now. To take dual weilding out is a lot different then changing how far a grenade can be thrown.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 10:04 AM PDT
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I think dual wielding is a great idea- it just needs some severe tweaking. In my mind, any weapon in the game needs to be suitable on its own, without needing an additional gun just to survive. Also, accuracy when dual wielding needs to be tweaked- there's no reason a guy dual wielding with an SMG and PR should be able to take me out at mid-range before I take him out with a BR, and we see each other at the same time. Yes, he can damage me reasonably, but I should be able to beat him to the punch, especially at that distance- his guns should be way less accurate.

  • 06.12.2006 10:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: axehand117
They did that because it helped the game feel better during multiplayer, i think grenades feel good now. To take dual weilding out is a lot different then changing how far a grenade can be thrown.


I don't usually say things like this, but you sir, are an idiot.

Now, LISTEN AND READ.

I understand why they changed grenades, but you have once again failed to explain WHY downgrading MC's ability to throw grenades further is different from downgrading anything else!!!

Yes, they did it to make multiplayer feel better - so what if they decided taking out DW would make multiplayer feel better. Now I'm not saying it would, I'm simply pointing out the flaw in your statement. Now, please explain WHY, or resign yourself to the fact that there is no arguing the point.

p.s. I won't reply as I'm leaving work now - but I will be back to see what the deal is tomorrow, so somebody please keep this going.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 10:09 AM PDT

The thing is with dual wielding is it has given rise to weak individual weapons (you have half a gun) and less ranged combat (you have to get up close and spray the enemy as the range has been nerfed).

  • 06.12.2006 10:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halomaster1232
Hedwig you just contradicted yourself. if you don't believe me look at your original post.

No I did not.


If you are holding a pistol in one hand and fire it. Now fire it with two hands. Your accuracy and range will increase by holding it with two hands.


I said firing it with two hands holding onto the same weapon (single wielding) gives greater accuracy than holding it in one hand (dual wielding). Which is the same as I stated earlier.

Overall when firing both weapons at the same time the accuracy and range should dramatically decrease.

  • 06.12.2006 10:15 AM PDT

Posted by: DocRobotnik
Posted by: axehand117
They did that because it helped the game feel better during multiplayer, i think grenades feel good now. To take dual weilding out is a lot different then changing how far a grenade can be thrown.


I don't usually say things like this, but you sir, are an idiot.

Now, LISTEN AND READ.

I understand why they changed grenades, but you have once again failed to explain WHY downgrading MC's ability to throw grenades further is different from downgrading anything else!!!

Yes, they did it to make multiplayer feel better - so what if they decided taking out DW would make multiplayer feel better. Now I'm not saying it would, I'm simply pointing out the flaw in your statement. Now, please explain WHY, or resign yourself to the fact that there is no arguing the point.

p.s. I won't reply as I'm leaving work now - but I will be back to see what the deal is tomorrow, so somebody please keep this going.

Wow, what is your problem. and yes i did. DUAL WEILDING IS A FRIKEN SKILL THROWING A GRENADE A CERTAIN DISTANCE IS NOT THE SAME! IN WHAT WAY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? and that is why sir, YOU are and idiot.

  • 06.12.2006 10:20 AM PDT

So far I have seen no posts in this thread giving reasons in favour of dual-wielding, only 'I like it' or 'OMG they can't take it out are you retarted(sic)'. Come on!

  • 06.12.2006 10:22 AM PDT
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Bungie wont remove it, so all i can ask is they improve it. It wasnt a bad idea, just poorly executed. How about we be a little less harsh on bungie and give them a second chance to get it right?

  • 06.12.2006 10:23 AM PDT
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It's funny the argument for DW is others just need to "master" them.....There's no mastering a system thats flawed like the DW system. Point in case, you take any weapon from Halo:CE and pit it against the H2 weapons it'll lose in power measurements alone, not including accuracy and skill to use said weapons.

IMO, i think the only ones who truly like the DW system are the ones who are so used to killing their opponent so easily with no skill involved(any combo including the pp). You say that DW adds a creativeness to the game, i say it takes away skill. What creative combo can you pull out thats going to counter a plasma beam(pp) that plays hide and seek with you(intentional exaggeration).

Yes H2 made it easier for people to just pick up and play, but at what cost.....its become a resort to your opponents methods to survive game, where in halo:ce you could be creative and counter any weapon with another in the game.

  • 06.12.2006 10:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: UL71M4 G33K
Bungie wont remove it, so all i can ask is they improve it. It wasnt a bad idea, just poorly executed. How about we be a little less harsh on bungie and give them a second chance to get it right?


agreed, but lets really hope they work it out, if not then just remove it(though it won't happen)......if you can't fix whats broken, you get rid of it

  • 06.12.2006 10:25 AM PDT

Posted by: Pwnocchio
In my mind, any weapon in the game needs to be suitable on its own, without needing an additional gun just to survive.


Well put.

  • 06.12.2006 10:25 AM PDT