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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
  • Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
Subject: Bungie - Drop the dual wielding
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That's true, there are indeed some great combos.

Does anyone else want the damage values to change, as well? Does anyone else feel like me- no matter what happens, even if you get somewhat of a jump on the guy, you're almost dead? I hate that. I feel like at the end of every firefight, even if I straight up owned the dude with 4 BR burst's to the head, I'm almost dead after the exchange- I'm not a fan of that. In my mind, if I'm good enough, I should be able to take on a dude or two in succession- almost all the time in Halo 2, you are going to be killed by the next person you meet, because your shields are still flashing.

  • 06.12.2006 12:26 PM PDT
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I agree, and the pp is cheap. Even the sword doesn't match the utter lack of skill this weapon embodies.

I know what you mean about the fire fights. I remember numerous times in halo:ce that i could take down three people and not have to worry, but now i pretty much know that if i win in a fight with one guy, his teammate is going to come right up and kill me. The teammate doesn't even have to be close, because if my sheilds ar only a fraction of the way down, it still only takes one grenade and i'm dead. This makes the game a "kill, die, respawn" endless cycle with that even those thathave superior skills still have to suffer from. The game should be catered towards those that have skill can actually stay alive through a succession of kills.

  • 06.12.2006 12:34 PM PDT

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They should also get rid of Sniper Auto aim..I hate people who think they're awesome at sniping..it doesn't take that much skill anymore..anyone can pick one up and get headshots.

  • 06.12.2006 12:37 PM PDT
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well, what could be done about the kill-die-respawn cycle? What change would you make to the game as a whole to solve this? I'm gonna call this the KDR cycle.

  • 06.12.2006 12:37 PM PDT

4-shot

i kinda wanna c dual weilding gone just because it seems to have weakened many weapons in the game i mean in h1 i actually used a plasma rifle as a primary weapon on occasions now il get laughed at raped by something stronger and then have to watch the guy who killed me wipe his ass across my back while im in respawn and i even used to b able to "kill" with the needler so yea dual wielding kinda messed things up a bit

  • 06.12.2006 12:38 PM PDT
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I think Bungie should improve, not remove. Every weapon should be able to hold its own by itself against every other weapon. Like Halo: CE for example. Every weapon was good and every weapon could kill, even the Needler and Plasma Pistol.

Halo 2 could have been like that even with dual-wielding. All they would have had to have done was probably decrease auto-aim when dual-wielding and make reload time longer. I think that would have made it balanced.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 12:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Silberner Drache
well, what could be done about the kill-die-respawn cycle? What change would you make to the game as a whole to solve this? I'm gonna call this the KDR cycle.


Unfortunately, this opinion puts me into the "critic" category, as i have no solution to the problem i just know there is a problem. The only difference(other than weapon balances) i know of between Halo:ce and Halo2 is the health bar. I just know that in CE i could easily kill a number of people without dying ,whereas in H2, no matter what skill level is seems that if you win a fight you're fixing to die because another enemy is right there with full shields. Maybe this is due to spawn time and level design, but i honestly can't put my finger on a for sure fix. Maybe if there were a power up similar to the health packs that made your shield charge faster.(i know there's overshields, but those are scarce and give you more than the average shield)

  • 06.12.2006 12:43 PM PDT
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So perhaps the addition of a healthbar would change things? Maybe Bungie needs to improve Dual Weilding and reduce the delay between downed shields the beginning of the shield charging while increasing actual recharge time? Maybe a slowly recharging healthbar would remove the need for healthpacks that was an issue in Halo 2 development. But how to change the dual weilding without making it useless?

  • 06.12.2006 12:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hedwig
Bring back the freezing effects of plasma weapons when single wielding only.


Despite any balance that may possibly give the game, there is no possible way to logically explain why fire from a plasma will slow you down, but only if the enemy doesn't have a second gun in his other hand.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 12:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Silberner Drache
So perhaps the addition of a healthbar would change things? Maybe Bungie needs to improve Dual Weilding and reduce the delay between downed shields the beginning of the shield charging while increasing actual recharge time? Maybe a slowly recharging healthbar would remove the need for healthpacks that was an issue in Halo 2 development. But how to change the dual weilding without making it useless?


The only suggestion i have is make dual weilding more of an option, not a necessity. I mean, lets face it, when you spawn with that smg the first thing you're usually looking for is a companion weapon or one of the power weapons(sword, rocket,sniper) or the rifles. You can kill with an smg if you are within melee range, or with a well placed grenade, but not effectively, as you will most likely loose all your shield in the processs, bringing you into the "KDR" cycle. So,as its been said many times here, make the smg(and other DW weapons) a bad ass on its own and power it down while dual weilding. The AR never suffered from this problem, and it was fully automatic, so why should the smg have a weakened state

  • 06.12.2006 12:56 PM PDT

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Keep health rechargable, but give us a Helth bar to look at so we know when we should go into a firwefight and when to wait..combining Halo and Halo 2..and double our maximum health and give us slightly more shield strength..

Also, removing auto aim for dual wielded weapons and reloading them seperately would further making weapons good on their own and as dual wields..

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 12:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Keep health rechargable, but give us a Helth bar to look at so we know when we should go into a firwefight and when to wait..combining Halo and Halo 2..and double our maximum health and give us slightly more shield


then you run the risk of making the game one of slow paced fighting and long kill times, with people emptying two clips into an enemy just for the kill.

  • 06.12.2006 1:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Keep health rechargable, but give us a Helth bar to look at so we know when we should go into a firwefight and when to wait..combining Halo and Halo 2..and double our maximum health and give us slightly more shield strength..

Also, removing auto aim for dual wielded weapons and reloading them seperately would further making weapons good on their own and as dual wields..


I agree. Knowledge of your health status helps in strategizing your next move. On the DW weapons, the smg needs more power. I've grenaded a guy and it still took a full clip to kill him. Fighting with the smg in its current state almost fully garuntees your going to need a melee to win your battle

  • 06.12.2006 1:07 PM PDT

4-shot

i say drop dual wielding and revise previous weapons such as the needler instead of its smg/hangun looking model make it more of a rifle type with faster rate of fire or something to improve upon it, grant the the plasma rifle the power it had back in the h1 days, make the pistol closer to the br like it once was but without a scope a smaller clip and power upgrade, and as for the smg destroy it and bring back the ar and the plasma pistol is powerful enough on its own or make its charge technique to unstable to hold in a single hand and fire accurately oh and the brute plasma rifle...did we really need that in the first place?

  • 06.12.2006 1:08 PM PDT

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Posted by: Silberner Drache
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Keep health rechargable, but give us a Helth bar to look at so we know when we should go into a firwefight and when to wait..combining Halo and Halo 2..and double our maximum health and give us slightly more shield


then you run the risk of making the game one of slow paced fighting and long kill times, with people emptying two clips into an enemy just for the kill.

That's why you beef up the power of the "half weapons" so when they're dual wielded you get more power..but with consequences.

You reload each gun seperately rather than at the same time, and there is no auto aim when it's dual wielded making skill needed..and all waepons would be powerful single wielded so it wont turn boring..was Halo CE boring? No.

I dont even think the SMG will returh..I think the weapon lineup will be MA5B, BR, Pistol, Magnum, Plasma Rifle, Brute PR, Plasma Pistol, Needler, Shotgun, Needler shotgun maybe, Rocket, Sword, Gauss gun, that gun the brutes are holding in the documentaty..etc.

But theres no need for an SMG since the SMG was just a weakened version of the MA5B..

  • 06.12.2006 1:21 PM PDT
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Youre an idiot! If you dont want to dual- wield then dont dual wield you moron. You can make the choice.

  • 06.12.2006 1:27 PM PDT
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Yes, he can make the choice. But the thing i if weapon is useless unless you dual wield, then that choice is overrulled by need. In halo 2 you NEED to dual wield SMG's to get a decent effect.

  • 06.12.2006 1:29 PM PDT
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why increase shields and weapon power? Then they just cancel eachother out, but I see where your going with this I think. Perhaps they should make dual wieldable weapons only able to be fired one at a time with any accuracy at all, that way if you wanted to fire at medium range, you'd have to either alternate fire or empty one clip at a time.

  • 06.12.2006 1:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Toquito Bendito
Youre an idiot! If you dont want to dual- wield then dont dual wield you moron. You can make the choice.


And this nugget of obviousness you pass off as wisdom makes you what exactly? Maybe read some posts before blurting out something that makes no sense in conjunction with what people are talking about.

  • 06.12.2006 1:45 PM PDT
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wow it seems like the 'no' people just got POWNZORED 125ish to 19..never seen a poll this lopsided before

  • 06.12.2006 1:46 PM PDT
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When I play Halo 2, then go back to Halo 1. I do not get to board any vehicle or duel wield any weapon.

  • 06.12.2006 1:54 PM PDT
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Dual Wielding is fine the way it is. The problem I have is that Bungie needs to change the time it takes to change weapons. The time to pull out a pistol vs time to load up a rocket launcher should be different. Also, this might change / remove the BR/PP combo entirely. If you can't switch to the BR fast enough, people will stop using it. Either that, or they will have to work together with another player to pull it off.

As for the sniper, my suggestion is to make the view finder a little less steady, and remove the tracer round from the sniper, so everyone doesn't see where you are everytime you shoot.

  • 06.12.2006 1:57 PM PDT
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The tracer balances the weapon. If you remove it the guy can camp the top of the map and no one will ever know where he is. In this game there is no way to figure which direction the sniper sound is coming from. It may not seem like the military would keep such a compromising thing, but in a game balance comes before realism.

And DW needs to be fixed. The weapons are too weak alone only have a limited performance when DWed. The weapon needs to be able to be stand alone, but should have a price for DWing. How about you still only have the ammo equivilant of 1 SMG, so you spen ammo faster even though its more powerful. Or the weapon's range is decreased.

  • 06.12.2006 2:04 PM PDT
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sadly there isn't a filter that screens out votes by ingorant and close-minded people who are unwilling to admit that a change to their unbalanced style of gaming brought about by dual-wielding might be for the best, as my sig reads, Bungie changed everthing from Halo 1 to Halo 2, the same will happen with Halo 3 to bring the Halo franchise into the next generation of gaming, and dual weilding WILL change. Like it or not.

  • 06.12.2006 2:04 PM PDT