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Subject: MLG and halo 3......
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

Posted by: Usedtabe
Its amazing that a company that depends on its customers buying its products has such an ego that it has no intentions of listening to its fans.

WOW. Bungie made Halo's CE and 2 w/o help from the community. Both games outsold competing console shooters, and the 2nd one is still the most played game on live. That is fact, not ego. Fans are players, not game designers. When the community itself cannot agree about pp/br, mlg vs mm, superbouncing, br vs m6d, etc., do you not think that listening to fans would cripple the development process?

  • 06.12.2006 10:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Darth1Snyder
Posted by: Usedtabe
Its amazing that a company that depends on its customers buying its products has such an ego that it has no intentions of listening to its fans.

WOW. Bungie made Halo's CE and 2 w/o help from the community. Both games outsold competing console shooters, and the 2nd one is still the most played game on live. That is fact, not ego. Fans are players, not game designers. When the community itself cannot agree about pp/br, mlg vs mm, superbouncing, br vs m6d, etc., do you not think that listening to fans would cripple the development process?


No, i am saying that its a bad business model to repeatedly ignore fans requests or complaints. Yes, the 1st 2 games did exceptionally well, and i am a fan of both, but by his response, this blind ego and disregard for suggestions will only ensure that one day, maybe not now, maybe not with H3, but one day they will not be as fortunate for the games to sell so well. You have to listen to your customers somewhat.

  • 06.12.2006 10:15 PM PDT
Subject: Oh, this is going to be a "Postamanjaro"

Verbose, as usual.

Posted by: trigger f1nger
Bungie i just want to try and get a point across, i strongly beleive that MLG will help make halo 3 even bigger than what it will be.

Son, you have it all backwards. Halo 3 and BUNGIE are bigger than MLG will ever be.

I think that bungie need to embrace major league gaming Or in my opinion, throw them the bird, but keep going...

and really focus on making halo 3 a competetively played game, MLG is getting bigger by the day and in years to come i can see MLG being as big as any sport in the world.
I would rather see the campaign mode be just as stunningly awe inspiring as Halo: CE, and have the multiplayer stay true to its roots than to watch it become a one dimensional game.

Bungie have the chance of being at the pinnacle of competetive gaming if they follow along the lines of halo 2, in other words dont change the gameplay its already perfect.
You’re saying that BUNGIE is not currently leading the way into competitive gaming? If not for Halo 2, MLG would have died with Super Smash Brothers. Seriously, who can take the future of gaming seriously when playing on a next generation platform with a name like the Wii. “Yeah, I am one the best at playing with my Wii in the world”

Keep all the customiseable options, if the games fully customiseable then it can be altered to be as balanced as possible.
BUNGIE has an idea in their head about how they want their game to be played. They have conveniently included customizability to increase the replay value of their game, and to cater to a wide variety of creative custom games.
I’m sure that by ‘balanced’ you actually meant as straightforward and simple as possible. I’m pro. I’m good with one weapon, on one level. Additionally, I’m going to custom tailor the gameplay and weapon set to favor my specific style of play. I’ll also find someone to buy into this, so I can set up my own gaming club, award prizes, and let everyone who pays money to enter one of these trumped up LAN parties. (That’s right everyone, LAN PARTIES! ) call themselves pro. Really, the MLG is just an example of very, very good marketing. The group that runs MGL is rolling, in both laughter and money, and rightly so. This guy is not the Mother Theresa of video gaming, so his efforts are not for the good of the now mainstream gaming community. Bottom line; he is in it for the cash and the clout.

Obviously dont stray from the fun factor, and dont change the gameplay we still play halo2 for a reason. Wow. The whole point of releasing another game is to
1. make money.
2. finish telling a story, and charge for it, thereby accomplish goal 1.
3. include any cool gameplay features that they weren’t able to get into Halo 2, for whatever reason. Also accomplishing goal 1.

Do you seriously think that it would be even possible for them to put out a game that sucks? I’d love to see them try. Halo 3 will be the reason that I get an XBOX 360; a continuation of an already killer series, on a next generation platform, with a reasonably cool name and marketing strategy. (I.E, not Wii.) I’m already sold.

P.S dont remove the battle rifle, i love it lol.
I think that they are already most likely waaay beyond that decision, The guys at BUNGIE should crate a new ‘go-to’ weapon simply because they are making a new game. Halo 3 will hopefully be much more than an expansion to Halo 2. (Thank god Halo 2 was not simply an expansion of Halo: CE, although when I finished that game, I would have been very happy to see merely that.) As such, they will hopefully refine the product they have now, expand on it, and completely blow us away squeezing every bit of power they can out of the XBOX 360.

They need to take the damn tracking off of that Jackhammer tho… I played Halo: CE for the first time in over a year on LAN, I’ve gotten so lazy with that rocket launcher.


[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 10:15 PM PDT
Subject: MLG and halo 3......

Posted by: Usedtabe
You have to listen to your customers somewhat.


Yes, but you don't want the customers to have that big of an impact. If you do, it could result in the customers wanting all products by the producer to have the stuff they wanted in it. Then they would probably never buy there stuff again.

Also with your post Usedtabe,

Posted by: Usedtabe
this blind ego and disregard for suggestions will only ensure that one day, maybe not now, maybe not with H3, but one day they will not be as fortunate for the games to sell so well.


Weather a game sells or not isn't directly related to ignoring their customers. It could be a bad game. Of course, after the game the criticism wasn't use, they could go down, but not so drastic as to put the business out of business.

  • 06.12.2006 10:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

Posted by: Usedtabe
No, i am saying that its a bad business model to repeatedly ignore fans requests or complaints. Yes, the 1st 2 games did exceptionally well, and i am a fan of both, but by his response, this blind ego and disregard for suggestions will only ensure that one day, maybe not now, maybe not with H3, but one day they will not be as fortunate for the games to sell so well. You have to listen to your customers somewhat.

Well... with playlist updates and 1.1, I don't think you can say fans are repeatedly ignored. With all the stats and charts that bungie has (frankie posted several times) Bungie has a pretty good feel for what the players want. How could they possibly forget all the post production work they put into Halo 2? It is a little presumptuous to think Bungie would just throw all the gameplay that works in Halo 2 by the wayside and start completely from scratch with Halo 3. Sure, it will be a little different with the new engine, but that doesn't mean things won't translate.

  • 06.12.2006 10:24 PM PDT
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Im tired of "Pros" there all a$$holes every 34 and above I play is a a$$hole once my friend got his 34 he began to act like a a$$hole.

To me if your a Halo 2 "Pro" or you care about halo 2 "Pros you need to get a life.

  • 06.12.2006 10:35 PM PDT
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I am only speaking of the response given by Achronos. I know about the updates. As i said, i am a fan of both games. Its responses like these that scream "I could care less what anyone thinks"....and although this is good for ones personal life(being yourself, etc.), in business its not the greatest idea to make your company sound that way. Honestly, this isn't the 1st time i've seen a response like this, hence why i posted what i said. There has to be a balance in customer appreciation and your own creativity. Yes, they made their games their way and have succeeded(extremely well) thus far. But given the last installment of Halo and all its flaws(past and present), it doesn't seem the best route to act like anything they (bungie) put out better be good enough for us or just fall back on previous titles. That arrogance scares me in anything, especially with something as great as what Halo is. Given what all happened with H2, i feel this type of arrogance is very misplaced.

  • 06.12.2006 10:43 PM PDT

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I hope Bungie will bring the best elemts from Halo and mix them with the best from Halo 2..

Most MLG players are nothing without Auto aim..or BR starts..

Nob combo should go too, since the Halo plasma pistol was balanced compared to the Halo 2 version..

New maps...new weapons...new features...new physics..no more animation glitches...what will make Halo 3 great for online play.

  • 06.12.2006 10:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Darth1Snyder
Posted by: Usedtabe
Its amazing that a company that depends on its customers buying its products has such an ego that it has no intentions of listening to its fans.

WOW. Bungie made Halo's CE and 2 w/o help from the community. Both games outsold competing console shooters, and the 2nd one is still the most played game on live. That is fact, not ego. Fans are players, not game designers. When the community itself cannot agree about pp/br, mlg vs mm, superbouncing, br vs m6d, etc., do you not think that listening to fans would cripple the development process?


Great post.

While I think that Halo 2 has some flaws in its MP, I trust Bungie and their development (almost a year away has changed my perspective from being a whiny little snot about all things H2 multiplayer on Live) to make a fun experience. I don't want them to listen to "the fans" so much that it cripples them- like the above poster said, the fans can't even agree. Bungie is a talented, knowledgable group of people, and in the end, they have a great track record and will do what they can to ensure that the game is fun to play.

  • 06.12.2006 10:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
I hope Bungie will bring the best elemts from Halo and mix them with the best from Halo 2..

Most MLG players are nothing without Auto aim..or BR starts..

Nob combo should go too, since the Halo plasma pistol was balanced compared to the Halo 2 version..

New maps...new weapons...new features...new physics..no more animation glitches...what will make Halo 3 great for online play.


Agreed

  • 06.12.2006 10:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: Bezerko
Posted by: dudemanwhatsup
If anything, MLG ruins what the Halo games truly are based on.


MLG, KSI and other "organizations" ruined the atmosphere of Halo 2 on live by making people think that "skill" was everything. What happened to having a good game? What happened to sportsmanship?

StK PMS

  • 06.12.2006 10:51 PM PDT

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Posted by: Pwnocchio
DIdn't Bungie help cater to MLG by creating the playlist that MLG people seemed to want?

Yes, proving that MLG will need to adapt to the game, the game will not adapt to MLG'ers. Bungie will make the game, people will have different playstyles and then some will form orfganizations..play only one type of game on four maps, then -blam!- at Bungie for similar playlists for when customs arent available, and they don't want to lose in regular Matchmaking cause they're not used to it.

This wasn't directed at and particular group of players.

  • 06.12.2006 10:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: trigger f1nger
Bungie i just want to try and get a point across, i strongly beleive that MLG will help make halo 3 even bigger than what it will be.


I strongly believe that MLG has ruined Halo 2 Online and that Bungie already caters too much to a small percentage of players. Compare the "pro" playlist use to that of "normal" games. Right now Regular TS, Team Training, and Team Swat account for probably over half of games played on XBL. MLG is a niche set of players and rules that should be kept to customs.

  • 06.12.2006 10:54 PM PDT

As long as the game is very customizable, then MLG will be able to adapt very well. I play a lot of MLG, and all I hope is that Halo 3 has a lot of customization options. This way, the casual player can play the game how he / she wants, and the hardcore player can set up the game the way that they want.

  • 06.12.2006 10:54 PM PDT

Posted by: StormyHeart
Posted by: trigger f1nger
Bungie i just want to try and get a point across, i strongly beleive that MLG will help make halo 3 even bigger than what it will be.

Son, you have it all backwards. Halo 3 and BUNGIE are bigger than MLG will ever be.


As of now, Bungie is bigger than MLG, yes, but whose to say that MLG won't get as big as football or soccor or baseball. Hell, it could be so big as to be talked about on ESPN.

I think that bungie need to embrace major league gaming Or in my opinion, throw them the bird, but keep going...

They don't need to "embrace major league gaming," nor do they need to " throw them the bird." They don't need to cature it to MLG nor do they need to completly ignore them. They should take it just as they do average feedback, that is, feedback from other than MLG.

and really focus on making halo 3 a competetively played game, MLG is getting bigger by the day and in years to come i can see MLG being as big as any sport in the world.
I would rather see the campaign mode be just as stunningly awe inspiring as Halo: CE, and have the multiplayer stay true to its roots than to watch it become a one dimensional game.


I would also like to see a campain be just as good as Halo 1 and have multiplayer stay true to it's roots, but if they did take a strong influence from MLG, it wouldn't be a one dimensional game. It would still be a fun game to play. If they keep the custom game type thing going, as they should, everyone can be happy, as it is now exept the other way around.

Bungie have the chance of being at the pinnacle of competetive gaming if they follow along the lines of halo 2, in other words dont change the gameplay its already perfect.
You’re saying that BUNGIE is not currently leading the way into competitive gaming? If not for Halo 2, MLG would have died with Super Smash Brothers. Seriously, who can take the future of gaming seriously when playing on a next generation platform with a name like the Wii. “Yeah, I am one the best at playing with my Wii in the world”


I agree, MLG would have died if it weren't for Halo 2. MLG owes Bungie it's continuing existance. Also, the Wii is a -blam!- name, and I'm a Nintendo fan.

Keep all the customiseable options, if the games fully customiseable then it can be altered to be as balanced as possible.
BUNGIE has an idea in their head about how they want their game to be played. They have conveniently included customizability to increase the replay value of their game, and to cater to a wide variety of creative custom games.
I’m sure that by ‘balanced’ you actually meant as straightforward and simple as possible. I’m pro. I’m good with one weapon, on one level. Additionally, I’m going to custom tailor the gameplay and weapon set to favor my specific style of play. I’ll also find someone to buy into this, so I can set up my own gaming club, award prizes, and let everyone who pays money to enter one of these trumped up LAN parties. (That’s right everyone, LAN PARTIES! ) call themselves pro. Really, the MLG is just an example of very, very good marketing. The group that runs MGL is rolling, in both laughter and money, and rightly so. This guy is not the Mother Theresa of video gaming, so his efforts are not for the good of the now mainstream gaming community. Bottom line; he is in it for the cash and the clout.


I agree, Bungie does know how they want Halo 3 to play. What I don't agree with is your attitide about MLG. The people in MLG are good, weather or not you think so, they are. You can say they can't use anything but the Battle Rifle, but the truth is, there are other weapons that are used. They are using the BR as it was intended, a fallback weapon. It is just that the other weapons are limitied and not everyone can have one. Try taking any pro on one on one. You'll lose - because they are better than you. Just like if you and your friends were to play football against a professional football team - you'd lose.

Also, about the runners of MLG rolling in money, most of the money gathered from entry fees goes to the prize money. MLG takes a percentage of it to keep it going only. For the sake of those who like MLG and like playing in the tournaments.

Obviously dont stray from the fun factor, and dont change the gameplay we still play halo2 for a reason. Wow. The whole point of releasing another game is to
1. make money.
2. finish telling a story, and charge for it, thereby accomplish goal 1.
3. include any cool gameplay features that they weren’t able to get into Halo 2, for whatever reason. Also accomplishing goal 1.

Do you seriously think that it would be even possible for them to put out a game that sucks? I’d love to see them try. Halo 3 will be the reason that I get an XBOX 360; a continuation of an already killer series, on a next generation platform, with a reasonably cool name and marketing strategy. (I.E, not Wii.) I’m already sold.


What did anything you have to say there do with what was said? Nothing. Also, Wii isn't the marketing ploy for Nintendo. It's the controller and what it will bring to the table, just like Xbox's ploy is the online factor. No one gets a system because of the name. I'm getting a Wii because of the controller and what it brings, not because of the name. I agree, though, as before, Wii is a -blam!- name.

P.S dont remove the battle rifle, i love it lol.
I think that they are already most likely waaay beyond that decision, The guys at BUNGIE should crate a new ‘go-to’ weapon simply because they are making a new game. Halo 3 will hopefully be much more than an expansion to Halo 2. (Thank god Halo 2 was not simply an expansion of Halo: CE, although when I finished that game, I would have been very happy to see merely that.) As such, they will hopefully refine the product they have now, expand on it, and completely blow us away squeezing every bit of power they can out of the XBOX 360.

They need to take the damn tracking off of that Jackhammer tho… I played Halo: CE for the first time in over a year on LAN, I’ve gotten so lazy with that rocket launcher.


The Battle Rifle from Halo 2 isn't coming back. Atleast, not as it was. They aren't creating a new go-to gun just because they are making an other game. If they do what I think they are doing, they are taking the best from the go-to weapons in Halo 1 and 2 and putting them into one.

To sum up everything that I said for those who won't read it. I don't agree with either of them. I believe in something between. (I think it is worth a read if you don't read it.)

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 10:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Pwnocchio
DIdn't Bungie help cater to MLG by creating the playlist that MLG people seemed to want?

Yes, proving that MLG will need to adapt to the game, the game will not adapt to MLG'ers. Bungie will make the game, people will have different playstyles and then some will form orfganizations..play only one type of game on four maps, then -blam!- at Bungie for similar playlists for when customs arent available, and they don't want to lose in regular Matchmaking cause they're not used to it.

This wasn't directed at and particular group of players.


Hahaha, that's great. I don't get why people are even on the MLG horse anymore, especially when Bungie offered a Team Hardcore playlist, just for the ones that voiced their opinions. Likewise, MLG people still get to play plenty of custom and LAN games- I can't say that they're at a loss for games to play- tons of people I know are able to play with these settings all the time. I agree with what others are saying- as long as the game is customizable, I'll be plenty happy- I LOVED the customization of Halo 2, which is why I'll never go back to CE.

  • 06.12.2006 10:59 PM PDT

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Posted by: OG Fastforward
Someone said (don't remember who) that MLG made the Halo experience bad for everyone. That isn't true. Someone else (forgot who) said there are people that hide behind the fact that it is a video game and no one knows what they are really like. The people that hide behind the fact are the ones that make the experience bad.


Just out of curiosity (I dont know who discovered the glitch) but what group of players openly encourages and teaches the use of button combos?

  • 06.12.2006 10:59 PM PDT
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Its about time we take back the game from the MLG/KSI-style douche bags who think that their's is the only way to play, that they are the only one who know what's best, and that they should have all the final say in any decision in matchmaking.

Listen: If I started an organization that said needlers-only king of the hill was the only way to play, I PROMISE I could find people to join.
I could stand behind those needlers just as passionately as any MLG stands
behind the BR and I would be just as accurate and correct in doing so.

MLG/Pro gaming is the WORST thing to happen to video games, tied right up there with Jack Thompson.

"I'm a smash brother's pro."

Please. MLG is a scam and I give all the respect in the world to the guy(s) at the top making money off someone else's product. The fact that there are enough 16, 17, 20, 21, etc., year olds out there dumb enough to fall for that is mind-numblingly depressing.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 11:00 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: OG Fastforward
Someone said (don't remember who) that MLG made the Halo experience bad for everyone. That isn't true. Someone else (forgot who) said there are people that hide behind the fact that it is a video game and no one knows what they are really like. The people that hide behind the fact are the ones that make the experience bad.


Just out of curiosity (I dont know who discovered the glitch) but what group of players openly encourages and teaches the use of button combos?


Yes, MLG did bring it out into the open. It would have been found eventually by the same means as MLG found it. Just because someone found a super jump doesn't mean everyone blames them for ruining the game. It seems to me that people are just looking for an exuse to blame MLG for everything wrong with Halo 2.

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 11:05 PM PDT
Subject: Oh, this is going to be a "Postamanjaro"

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StormyHeart, nice rant =D

Make sure you get your 360 one to two weeks prior to Halo 3's release, so that you can get used to the controller..it only took me about a week to get used to Halo-style gameplay on a smaller controller..might as well start off Halo 3 playing your best

  • 06.12.2006 11:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Akiva
Please. MLG is a scam and I give all the respect in the world to the guy(s) at the top making money off someone else's product. The fact that there are enough 16, 17, 20, 21, etc., year olds out there dumb enough to fall for that is mind-numblingly depressing.


Like I said in my other post. Most of the money made goes for prize money. Only a small percentage is kept by MLG. Even then, it isn't at a complete profit. It goes towards the other events.

  • 06.12.2006 11:09 PM PDT
Subject: MLG and halo 3......
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Posted by: Akiva
Please. MLG is a scam and I give all the respect in the world to the guy(s) at the top making money off someone else's product. The fact that there are enough 16, 17, 20, 21, etc., year olds out there dumb enough to fall for that is mind-numblingly depressing.


Yeah, I agree. I think it's pretty crazy that so many of these avid "MLG Players" haven't played a tournament to save their life, and haven't made any headway into earning the right to be a professional, but assert that they are pro's. And these are 15, 16, and 17 year olds doing this. It's even worse when it's guys in their 20's.

  • 06.12.2006 11:09 PM PDT

Posted by: Pwnocchio
Yeah, I agree. I think it's pretty crazy that so many of these avid "MLG Players" haven't played a tournament to save their life, and haven't made any headway into earning the right to be a professional, but assert that they are pro's. And these are 15, 16, and 17 year olds doing this. It's even worse when it's guys in their 20's.


For those more famous ones, OGRE 1, OGRE 2, TSqared, it is justified to call them the best. They beat out hundreds of others. There are those, mostly younger people, who think just because they play MLG, they think they are good. It's sad really. It's also sad that people have to blam MLG for everything that is bad about Halo 2. What is bad is what didn't work for the game. That is what improvments are made from for Halo 3. Be gratefull for what is bad in Halo 2. It will make Halo 3 all the more better.

  • 06.12.2006 11:15 PM PDT

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Posted by: OG Fastforward
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: OG Fastforward
Someone said (don't remember who) that MLG made the Halo experience bad for everyone. That isn't true. Someone else (forgot who) said there are people that hide behind the fact that it is a video game and no one knows what they are really like. The people that hide behind the fact are the ones that make the experience bad.


Just out of curiosity (I dont know who discovered the glitch) but what group of players openly encourages and teaches the use of button combos?


Yes, MLG did bring it out into the open. It would have been found eventually by the same means as MLG found it. Just because someone found a super jump doesn't mean everyone blames them for ruining the game. It seems to me that people are just looking for an exuse to blame MLG for everything wrong with MLG.

People who find bugs and tell other people about them ruin the game..if people found a bug then told Bungie..and not other players who will inturn ruin the ENTIRE MATCHMAKING system..well not ruin, but they're working on it..there are no accurate ranks anymore mostly due to these and other cheaters.

It's like a highly active virus, but being passed along by 'pr0 gamerzz'

Also, I don't see any other group of gamers who encourage the use of these bugs..none..MLG is the only one, it's fine in their tourneys off of LIVE, but on LIVE they are cheating..customs or not..

Why encourage cheating? So many people think theyre great and behave like this..

Walks around a corner, sees a Spartan-"Come here you bad kid, I'm gonna -blam!- you you -blam!- ing nub!"--BXRs the guy in the face, turns around and quick reloads then does the two grenade at once glitch..then an RRX for the killtac"-blam!- YOU -blam!- ING NUBS! I LOVE MLG!!!11"

They usually turn out to be 11 year olds..scary. I actually do a good 12 year old impression..it all started a while back when me and my bud were challenged in a 2v2 after beating these kids in double team...

"Get ova here you nub! I'm gonna BXR yah!" in a goofy little kid voice...Why am I saying this? Sorry, the end was off topic, but it was all true.

=P

[Edited on 6/12/2006]

  • 06.12.2006 11:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: Achronos
We shall do the same thing we have always done - we will make a game that we think is fun and hope everyone else likes it. So far, we've been pretty successful at that, so I think we'll be okay. And, if the anybody doesn't like the results (like the MLG, or anybody else), they can just play Halo 1 or Halo 2. We really don't take it personally if you like one game better than the other, like some of you guys seem to.

as you should games development isnt a popularity contest

  • 06.12.2006 11:25 PM PDT

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