Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
  • Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Otis Redding
Drugs are bad.


drugs can let you see all kinds of awesome things

  • 06.19.2006 11:37 AM PDT

Posted by: FlXURGAMEBUNGIE
Posted by: Otis Redding
Drugs are bad.


drugs can let you see all kinds of awesome things


Just one more time...this is the last time.....just one more...

  • 06.19.2006 11:48 AM PDT

Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy

Regardless because the end result will still be acheived. Therefore his analogy still doesn't hold water.


Dude, do you even read my post? I just said there are varying degrees of effectiveness. A drug doesnt automatically cure you 100% when you take it, it works better for some people and not so well for others. I dont know why you cant grasp this fact.

  • 06.19.2006 11:48 AM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
Its called an analogy, its meant to compare two similiar situations or items...


I was making the point that it was a bad one.

  • 06.19.2006 11:50 AM PDT

Posted by: RhythmKiller
Posted by: TheBigShow
Its called an analogy, its meant to compare two similiar situations or items...


I was making the point that it was a bad one.


If you read this last page, maybe you will understand why it works.

  • 06.19.2006 11:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy

Regardless because the end result will still be acheived. Therefore his analogy still doesn't hold water.


Dude, do you even read my post? I just said there are varying degrees of effectiveness. A drug doesnt automatically cure you 100% when you take it, it works better for some people and not so well for others. I dont know why you cant grasp this fact.


But in the end the drug will still cure/prevent whatever you got/are going to get.


  • 06.19.2006 11:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.

  • 06.19.2006 12:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: DR0CX
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

I highly doubt there will ever be a perfect balance, unless the game has only one weapon... Maybe a 4-5 shot M6D and either completely empty circular maps or perfectly symmetrical laser tag style arenas.

I am sure that Bungie operates similar to other devs... [From 3DRealms...
Game / Senior Designer
Management Skills

* You need experience managing people.
* You need to play levels daily and make notes on them to direct level designers.
* You need to have a technical mind and critical thinking skills, so that you can understand technology constraints, limits and compromises.

And From Bungie...
Senior Designer
* Several years of game design experience including experience as a lead/senior designer on AAA games.
* Intuition and understanding of how to create exceptionally fun game play experiences.
* Outstanding oral and written communication skills.
* Ability to communicate effectively with designers, artists, programmers, musicians, testers and producers.
* Fantastic people and leadership skills.
* Dedication to contributing to a positive work environment.
* Passion for playing and making games.
* Unrelenting self-motivation and initiative.
* Thorough understanding of game engines, technology and the game development process.

It would seem to me that the programmers playtest, then send their drafts to the Senior Designer who playtests and gives final word. It also seems to make sense that the playtesters should be those who are capable of writing the code, understand the games engines, etc. It is very arrogant that the self proclaimed "pros" think they know more about the game than those who wrote it. Bungie knows Halo's CE, 2, and 3 inside and out. Let those in the know playtest, and let the consumer decide if the end result is good or not. When I say consumer, I'm not talking about the vocal forum purist minority who label themselves professional gamers who can't stop playing what they proclaim to hate. I'm talking about the consumers who keep the game alive.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 12:26 PM PDT

It's fun when we win and funny when we lose: Le Mediocrity
OR
Come take your verbal beating like a man in THE CAVE

Posted by: operativeace
There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.


More patronizing comments please.

  • 06.19.2006 12:30 PM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: operativeace
There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.


More patronizing comments please.


I think you're a litle too sensitive. Like, you're just waiting to be offended.

  • 06.19.2006 12:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The idea of this tread had definately died.

  • 06.19.2006 12:59 PM PDT

It's fun when we win and funny when we lose: Le Mediocrity
OR
Come take your verbal beating like a man in THE CAVE

Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: operativeace
There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.


More patronizing comments please.


I think you're a litle too sensitive. Like, you're just waiting to be offended.


Not at all. Read through this dude's posts in the thread. His whole concept of "do it yourself/do it for you" is built to put himself on a pedestal while looking down upon those that accept the game as it is. I actually don't think anyone else in this thread has evoked similar comments from me (well maybe "I'll post pictures of myself" annoyed me but for entirely different reasons).

  • 06.19.2006 1:04 PM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: operativeace
There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.


More patronizing comments please.


I think you're a litle too sensitive. Like, you're just waiting to be offended.


Not at all. Read through this dude's posts in the thread. His whole concept of "do it yourself/do it for you" is built to put himself on a pedestal while looking down upon those that accept the game as it is. I actually don't think anyone else in this thread has evoked similar comments from me (well maybe "I'll post pictures of myself" annoyed me but for entirely different reasons).


I try to just ignore the radical fanatics of either playstyle. I want to have fun, and play a fair a game as possible at the same time.

Just ignore the guy. :)

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 1:32 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The competive player doesn't accept the game for what it is unless it rewards you by actually putting in the work. Translation- Puting the retical over the actuall model and not next to him or having any help to get the kill. Its not fun to shoot a rocket at the ground next to him and for it to turn and guide in on him like he is a vehicle or the fact that bullets turn towards your enemy when you know he should be dead but because they turn and dont count when the retical is red he lives causing you to waste all your ammo for no reason. The game should reward the better player and force the unlucky player to change his tactics to get better. And no im not putting myself on a pedestal. Im just letting things be know that some people dont realize.
Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: Wiltron
Posted by: operativeace
There's a vid somewhere that shows the difference between H1 and H2, between do it yourself and do it for you.


More patronizing comments please.


I think you're a litle too sensitive. Like, you're just waiting to be offended.


Not at all. Read through this dude's posts in the thread. His whole concept of "do it yourself/do it for you" is built to put himself on a pedestal while looking down upon those that accept the game as it is. I actually don't think anyone else in this thread has evoked similar comments from me (well maybe "I'll post pictures of myself" annoyed me but for entirely different reasons).

  • 06.19.2006 2:21 PM PDT

Frank O'Connor is a 12-year veteran of the videogame magazine industry and has therefore never worked an honest day in his life.

so if you are able to talk about it are there plans to improve the spawn system. I loved halo 2 and the only thing that P.O me about halo 2 was spawn camping and the fact that you didn't have an unranked player friendly system. now that i see that xbox 360 requires to have a player and ranked match i would bet thats not a problem. And if you could talk about anti standby for a second do you have plans to stop standby and bridging or are you just importing the tools from halo 2. I am betting with the new system on xbox 360 you guys have alot less cheating work to do because of the new feedback system.

  • 06.19.2006 2:40 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
Posted by: TheBigShow
Its called an analogy, its meant to compare two similiar situations or items...


and not a very good one. See with a vacine there are two clear outcomes. Either it won't work or it will. When making a video game there are about half a billion outcomes, none of which are correct.


If you don't understand how to use anaologies then just don't use them....like a pig on a tight rope.


Actually, there are infinite outcomes when creating a new drug. It works well or it doesnt or anywhere in between, just like a video game. You're pretty good at arguing about something you know nothing about though.



Intresting, you rarely hear about the Smallpox vaccine only working on a select few....

and last I checked the Polio one wasn't resisted by anyone.


Just to point out a few things. Vaccines are not drugs so your response is flawed. Vaccines are weakened or dead viruses, bacteriea etc.. that your body will build up anti-bodies for, and once you have the anti-body you won’t get sick by that particular virus, or bacteria.

Back on track…

I think that a lot of the problems that very good players or “pros” have with the game are very legit complaints. The average gamer doesn’t see them as such a problem because they are not playing at the same level as the pros. Some of the examples have been with the spawning closer to the power weapons will affect the outcome of the game. As a lot of people have pointed out they don’t feel that it is that big of a deal. Well maybe at the average gamer level it isn’t but at the higher end of game play this kind of advantage insures the other team a victory 9 times out of 10.

So why not strive to have the game balanced enough so these kinds of problems don’t crop up.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 2:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

People. Please don't expect another Halo 1. Halo 1 was a fluke in it's own. Also, Alex Seropian left and created Wideload Games, which created Stubbs the Zombie.

With that said, if you want to play a balanced game don't look ahead, look back to H1.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 3:32 PM PDT

Posted by: ToXSicK II
People. Please don't expect another Halo 1. Halo 1 was a fluke in it's own. Also, Alex Seropian left and created Wideload Games, which created Stubbs the Zombie.

With that said, if you want to play a balanced game don't look ahead, look back to H1.


That doesnt mean I have to resign myself to the likely outcome. I still do play Halo 1 and XBC , but I would like to play a game on LIVE that is competetive, balanced, and skill based.

  • 06.19.2006 3:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
but I would like to play a game on LIVE that is competetive, balanced, and skill based.


Halo 3 will NOT be that game. MLG found the most balanced settings Halo 2 had to offer, but they/we are a minority with roughly 100,000 members. Bungie has already stated that they will be creating Halo 3 by what the MAJORITY of the Halo 2 community had to say. I would not be suprised if the AR in Halo 3 shot out rockets.

The hype for Halo 2 was unbelieavable because of what H1 was. Do you see that same kind of hype for H3? I sure as hell don't. I can understand why Bungie is creating the game for the masses. Money talkes.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 3:45 PM PDT

Posted by: ToXSicK II
Posted by: TheBigShow
but I would like to play a game on LIVE that is competetive, balanced, and skill based.


Halo 3 will NOT be that game. MLG found the most balanced settings Halo 2 had to offer, but they/we are a minority with roughly 100,000 members. Bungie has already stated that they will be creating Halo 3 by what the MAJORITY of the Halo 2 community had to say. I would not be suprised if the AR in Halo 3 shot out rockets.


I dont expect it to be; I dont hold any hope for Halo 3. However, if we can raise some level of awareness in key people then hopefully Bungie can make it for both the majority and the minority; similar to Halo 1.

  • 06.19.2006 3:48 PM PDT

gamer tag: CrazyChinchilla

Posted by: ToXSicK II
Posted by: TheBigShow
but I would like to play a game on LIVE that is competetive, balanced, and skill based.


Halo 3 will NOT be that game. MLG found the most balanced settings Halo 2 had to offer, but they/we are a minority with roughly 100,000 members. Bungie has already stated that they will be creating Halo 3 by what the MAJORITY of the Halo 2 community had to say. I would not be suprised if the AR in Halo 3 shot out rockets.


100,000 people have a rod up their ass too. Seriously, if you cant play the game for fun then why play at all? Do you really get that angry when some kid owns you with a noob combo that you have to go whine with your other 100,000 -blam!- friends? If it was up to you I'm sure halo 3 would have one gun, that killed in three shots, with a really big crosshair, and we could call it halo 1, and then all would be happy.

You do realize that this about how hyped it was when the Halo 2 announcement came out? In fact it wasn't even this excited, it was just like... yea... it looks good, but the game probably wont look like that. The hype engine starts slowly, then it hooks everyone, then it turns into a massive ad camapaign and rumor hype, viral marketing, crazy stuff every day shenanigan.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 3:49 PM PDT

Posted by: ToXSicK II

The hype for Halo 2 was unbelieavable because of what H1 was. Do you see that same kind of hype for H3? I sure as hell don't. I can understand why Bungie is creating the game for the masses. Money talkes.


I completely agree with that. However, the masses don't know the difference between a balanced game and an unbalanced game, so why cater it to them? They will buy it regardless. Unless someone points out that, for example, a top MLG player is testing the game for balance, the community wont know and wont care. The only reason people on here get mad about us crying for a "balanced" game is because for some reason they think adding more balance will remove some of the fun, which is completely untrue.

  • 06.19.2006 3:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: tex mex matt
[100,000 people have a rod up their ass too. Seriously, if you cant play the game for fun then why play at all?

We go to MLG tournements for good, competitive fun. We have a generally intelligent community(which Bungie lacks) and value balanced games. Other than the fact that Halo 2 is fun, we can earn money from MLG tournements.

Do you really get that angry when some kid owns you with a noob combo that you have to go whine with your other 100,000 -blam!- friends?
The Bungie community are the ones that are whining about the disadvantages of the noob combo.

If it was up to you I'm sure halo 3 would have one gun, that killed in three shots, with a really big crosshair, and we could call it halo 1, and then all would be happy.
With a big crosshair. Please, understand MLG before you bash it. We value SKILL. Stop stereotypign the MLG community and get your head out of your ass.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 3:53 PM PDT