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This topic has moved here: Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
  • Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
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Let me back up Tox Sick ll here. Do your realize that Halo is going to have TV coverage on USA Network? You can read about the artical here and with that means that Bungie gets more known to more people so as halo but if it wasn't for MLG Bungie wouldn't be getting this TV coverage so before you start bashing the competitive players and MLG, MLG is actually leading the way to making the gaming industry well known so stop bashing.

  • 06.19.2006 5:13 PM PDT
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Remember, this is not an MLG vs Bungie thread. It is true that MLG is doing more for the gaming industry then Bungie alone could ever do. Maybe this will inspire them to look more into cometitive gaming.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 5:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: ToXSicK II
Remember, this is not an MLG vs Bungie thread. It is true that MLG is doing more for the gaming industry then Bungie alone could ever do. Maybe this will inspire them to look more into cometitive gaming.

True that this isn't a MLG vs Bungie thread but as big as this thread has become and with the average gamers saying that H3 shouldn't show true skill and the competitive player saying it should its only a matter of time before the thread how do you say: explodes.

  • 06.19.2006 5:22 PM PDT

Unfortunately, if you mention MLG here, most of the forum users will get irrational and defensive. I dont know how they came to this conclusion, but many of them think MLG = Anti-Bungie and no fun.

  • 06.19.2006 5:24 PM PDT
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Lol and I totally agree with you there.
Posted by: TheBigShow
Unfortunately, if you mention MLG here, most of the forum users will get irrational and defensive. I dont know how they came to this conclusion, but many of them think MLG = Anti-Bungie and no fun.


[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 5:50 PM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Sniper Fodder
In Halo: CE I was able to get two-shot kills with the pistol 124% of the time. That means I'm smarter and know more about gameplay balance than all of you.


It's a pretty simple equation. In order to be one of the best players at this beloved game of ours, you've simply got to study how the game functions inside and out.

You play enough nd reach a certain level, then you are qualified to discuss what works with regard to balance.

I;m not saying the casual gamer shouldn't be able to playtest the game...but I'd simply have more faith in the top players to determine what works nicely, and what is broken.

Bungie isn't perfect guys, they make mistakes just like everyone else. Look at the Banshee on Ascension in a rifles game, or only one Sniper respawning by big base there as well. Or BRs not respawning on Foundation for god knows why. People make mistakes. Why not lend a hand? Why not help the balance issue if people can? It's just simple advice, nothing more, it really can't hurt and Bungie does not have to listen. Balance will not ruin the fun. I can't believe I have to say that...but BALANCE WILL NOT RUIN YOUR FUN!

  • 06.19.2006 6:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: OksanaBayul

It's a pretty simple equation. In order to be one of the best players at this beloved game of ours, you've simply got to study how the game functions inside and out.

You play enough nd reach a certain level, then you are qualified to discuss what works with regard to balance.

I;m not saying the casual gamer shouldn't be able to playtest the game...but I'd simply have more faith in the top players to determine what works nicely, and what is broken.


I don't think it's skill that determines how good a playtester will be, it's how observant and imaginative they are.

Take any sport for instance where the coaches or managers (who more than anyone need to know their given sport inside out) as often as not, were not very good at playing their sport. I don't think skill at a game has any bearing on the ability to analyse how it is played.

  • 06.19.2006 7:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: ToXSicK II
You are despised and scorned by the rest of the H2 community. Your own kind hates you, everyone on the competitive scene hates you.


Oh dear. It was always my greatest desire to be revered by both the screaming 14 year olds and the pretentious elite but now I realize I've failed. I'm crushed.

  • 06.19.2006 7:54 PM PDT
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I say the pro gamers should playtest it. Think about it, if someone who is a professional in gaming and highly judgemental/skeptical of all games, and they have fun with halo 3, then the casual gamer is guaranteed to have fun.

  • 06.19.2006 8:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: ToXSicK II
You should stop being a dick and learn to add some intelligent input.

You should practice what you preach. You haven't really added anything other than some thinly veiled elitism.

  • 06.19.2006 8:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

Posted by: Blue Rexx
Posted by: ToXSicK II
You should stop being a dick and learn to add some intelligent input.

You should practice what you preach. You haven't really added anything other than some thinly veiled elitism.

I'll 2nd that. BTW...
Posted by: ToXSicK II
It is true that MLG is doing more for the gaming industry then Bungie alone could ever do.

Really? What games did MLG release? Oh.. that's right... they simply comb through the MP options of already existing games for a watered down version of the original. Gaming was popular before MLG, an will be popular after MLG. All I see this acronym doing is making more elitist jackholes for casuals to behold on XBL and in the forums.

  • 06.19.2006 8:36 PM PDT

Down, down to hell and say that I sent you there...

I came into the world with my legs forward and a woman cried "he was born with teeth!"

"I had no father I am like my father...I had no brother I am like my brother...And this word, "love" which old farts call divine be resident in men like you -blam!-. But not in me, I am my mother-blam!- self, alone."

You Are an Idiot

There's something that MLG homers have got wrong here. MLG didn't make the gaming industry, the gaming industry made MLG. It was guys like me and some of these other "casuals" that you like to talk down to that helped spurr the game industry. Where was MLG twenty years ago when the gaming industry was on the verge of collapse? That's what I thought. It was Nintendo that brought the gaming industry from the depths of near bankruptcy and it was the "casual" gamers who bought the games and played them for hours on end. And then it was the casual gamers who bought the SNES and Sega Genesis and so on and so forth until you have the gaming industry today.

Do you honestly think MLG would be big without Halo? Halo is the reason MLG is so big. Super Smash Bros is another MLG game but you don't hear near the amount of hype for it as you would Halo. Why? Because Halo is a bigger game. MLG saw that and saw how serious people take the game, and that's why MLG is so big.

These "pros" you like to hold to such high standards are no thing more than guys with no lives. And you can call me jealous or whatever you want. I play Halo 2 to have fun, it was never meant to be other than fun. It was guys like Str8 Ripin' and the Ogres that made Halo 2 so competetive. And it was only helped by the guys on this forum who hold them to such high reguard.

I watched a video a couple days ago that was on some MLG Halo 2 player and how he considered himself an "athlete." He gets up at noon and "trains." You know what "training" is to him? Sitting on his ass in the middle of a television playing Halo 2 for four hours. Then he goes out and runs a while and comes back and plays some more. That's not an athlete. He's not a "professional" at anything other than a couch potato. You want to see athletes? Go turn on ABC, ESPN or ESPN2...those guys are athletes.

You can hype MLG all you want and saw how the gaming industry would be nothing without MLG. But MLG is a spawn of the video game industry's popularity. And Halo 3 should not and will not cater to a very small vocal minority crowd that whines and complains and fills these forums full of MLG hype. You water the game down in the name of skill instead of playing it for what it is: fun.

  • 06.19.2006 8:38 PM PDT
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I am not showing elitism here. I may have different opinions on gaming, but isn't that what a forum is for? Just because the MLG crew despises you does NOT mean you have to stereotype.

More on topic. I did NOT say that MLG created gaming. What I am saying is that MLG has brought gaming to a whole new level. Many people don't realize that later this year, MLG tournements will be covered live on TV. Bungie alone could not have pulled this off. Do NOT think that MLG is just a craze. Gaming will not be the same after MLG and many other organizations have had their say.

-Edit-
If you have anything else to argue(which I am sure you do), please PM me.

ToX

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 10:29 PM PDT

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Posted by: Darth1Snyder
Posted by: ToXSicK II
It is true that MLG is doing more for the gaming industry then Bungie alone could ever do.

Really? What games did MLG release? Oh.. that's right... they simply comb through the MP options of already existing games for a watered down version of the original. Gaming was popular before MLG, an will be popular after MLG. All I see this acronym doing is making more elitist jackholes for casuals to behold on XBL and in the forums.

You make me happy.

  • 06.19.2006 10:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
You make me happy.

Toni and everyone else in this thread, please read my above post.

  • 06.19.2006 10:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ric_Adbur
No one should ever be afraid of looking stupid, so long as they are making a rational effort to expand their understanding.

Posted by: ToXSicK II
Toni and everyone else in this thread, please read my above post.

Your post has been read, that doesn't change the fact that microsoft has done more for gaming than MLG could ever have dreamed of. And yes, it is just a fad. Console gaming is doing just fine with XBL and Bungie, MLG is neither needed nor desired.

EDIT:
Anyway, regardless of this thread's end, it won't change the fact that Bungie will play test their own game. Everyone but the "pros" know that it would be a bad idea for anyone but those who know the engine and code to play test it.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 10:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Darth1Snyder
[Your post has been read, that doesn't change the fact that microsoft has done more for gaming than MLG could ever have dreamed of. And yes, it is just a fad.[/quote] Console gaming is doing just fine with XBL and Bungie, MLG is neither needed nor desired.


Aren't you the fanboy. Ok, Bungie was the fuel for the revolution of gaming. We can all agree that Halo 1/2 have been the most successful console FPS's of all time. MLG took these games and made them something more. MLG has brought competitive gaming to a whole new level! MLG tournements and many others will not be on TV! You do not realize how big this is. I can garauntee that you have not ONCE visited the MLG website to find what this is all about.

Console gaming is doing just fine with XBL and Bungie, MLG is neither needed nor desired.

Do not use your own opinions to speak for others. Do you honestly think that Bungie could have gotten gaming on TV? I think not.

  • 06.19.2006 11:01 PM PDT

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Posted by: ToXSicK II
Posted by: Darth1Snyder
[Your post has been read, that doesn't change the fact that microsoft has done more for gaming than MLG could ever have dreamed of. And yes, it is just a fad.[/quote] Console gaming is doing just fine with XBL and Bungie, MLG is neither needed nor desired.


Aren't you the fanboy. Ok, Bungie was the fuel for the revolution of gaming. We can all agree that Halo 1/2 have been the most successful console FPS's of all time. MLG took these games and made them something more. MLG has brought competitive gaming to a whole new level! MLG tournements and many others will not be on TV! You do not realize how big this is. I can garauntee that you have not ONCE visited the MLG website to find what this is all about.

Console gaming is doing just fine with XBL and Bungie, MLG is neither needed nor desired.

Do not use your own opinions to speak for others. Do you honestly think that Bungie could have gotten gaming on TV? I think not.

Fanboy? What are you? You are more of a fanboy, you are going so far as to say MLG did more for the community than bungie did..when Bungie made the game..and MLG is still the minority of Halo 2's online players.

Halo is argueably the most popular gaming franchise of all time, and is undeniably the most played online game ever.

Because of MLG's ability to water down a perfectly balanced game? No.

Because of Bungie's ability to tell a great story, while implementing a unique style of play and telling a deep story, with wonderful graphics? Yes.

End of thread.

  • 06.19.2006 11:15 PM PDT
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So you are saying that MLG is a watered down version of Bungie's already PERFECT game... Are you out of your -blam!- mind?! You do realize that Bungie had to save their asses by producing a 1.1 patch. BXR, BXB, BRX have done more to balance out H2 then that patch. If BXR is cheating then I will slit my wrists and pour salt into my wounds.

Let the MLG vs Bungie topic end here please.

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 11:20 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=7328766#end
Posted by: Achronos
This question has been answered. It is a bug in the game, and like all bug, exploiting it on Xbox Live is cheating - I recommend using cheating feedback on Xbox Live. Elsewhere, it depends on your house rules.


*Hands you a razor blade, and a container of salt*

  • 06.19.2006 11:22 PM PDT
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I am pretty sure that Achronos is discussing super jumping in that particular thread. Please have some actual evidence before you start bull-blam!- me.

  • 06.19.2006 11:24 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

"Like All bug(s)"

Here's another:

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=7188068&v iewreplies=true&postRepeater1-p=16#end

Posted by: Achronos
Some of you apparently lack basic reading comprehension. Stop picking and choosing between posts to suit your vision of "reality", and try reading them together. This includes you Predat0r, since you're apparently trying to run the thread off topic by trying to start yet another -blam!--fest about bugs, even though there are plenty of other threads about this and the issue has been beaten to death already. Do it again and you'll be banned for a while; I have little patience right now for more idiotic trolling like yours. If you don't like it, tough, go whine to the Halo2Sucks.com guys, they like talking about that kind of thing.

Here are the facts - these aren't "opinions", or whatever word you are using to avoid what you don't want to hear.

1. Any use of a glitch/bug in a game to acquire an advantage is cheating on Xbox Live. This includes but is not limited to superbouncing, flag through the wall tricks, leaving the map boundaries, triggering an animation bug using a sequence of button presses (BXR, etc.)
2. Anytime you see someone cheating, you should leave feedback on them, but it is up to you whether to do so. You define whether an action is cheating - you can define the above actions as normal, or be hardcore and define all of them as cheating. Since you're the one reporting the cheater, you get to be the ultimate arbiter of if cheating is occuring. This is a very obvious thing to say, but most people don't understand this.
3. Different organizations have different rules. When you're on Xbox Live, you have to deal with our rules (which are in point 1 and 2). This means that anybody who is bringing up "what MLG does" needs to pull their head out of their ass and look around. Are we talking about an MLG tournament? Is this the MLG web site? No! That means that we're talking about Bungie rules for playing on Xbox Live. MLG is free to define whatever rules they want, and in their rules, button combos are part of the game. Super jumping (I believe) is not. But as what they do is off topic to this discussion, you need to stop talking about it like it matters to what happens on Xbox Live, because it doesn't.


And now for Xbox LIVE's ToS that you agreed to, and are thus breaking when you BXR.

This exerpt comes from the Official Xbox Live Online Policy.

3. HOW AND WHEN YOU MAY USE THE SERVICE

We provide the Service for your personal use. You may not use the Service for commercial purposes or in a way that is against the law. You also may not use it in a way that harms us or our affiliates, resellers, distributors, service providers, partners and/or suppliers (collectively, the "Microsoft Parties"), or any customer of a Microsoft Party. Some examples of harmful activity that we do not permit include: (i) trying to gain access to any account, computers, hardware or networks related to this Service without authorization; (ii) disrupting accounts, computers, hardware or networks related to the Service; (iii) obtaining or trying to obtain any data through any means from the Service, except if we intend to provide or make it available to you; (iv) using the Service or related hardware to obtain any data to design, develop or update unauthorized software that you use or provide to others to access or use in connection with the Service; (v) charging others to use the Service either directly or indirectly; (vi) using or distributing unauthorized cheats, macros or scripts; (vii) exploiting any bug, or making unauthorized modifications to any software or data, in the Service or particular game to gain unfair advantage in a game.

We may tell you about other specific harmful uses in a code of conduct or other notice available through the Service. We have, however, no duty to do so. You will obey any codes of conduct or other notices we provide.
You may start using the Service right after you finish the sign-up process. No withdrawal right or "cooling-off" period applies to the Service, except if the law requires a "cooling-off" period even when your use of a service starts right away.


The BXR portion of this thread can now die, since the truth has been posted. Care to deny it like you've done up to this point, or can we continue with who should playtest, or not playtest this game?

*Hands you a Razor blade, and a container of salt*

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 11:28 PM PDT
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Dear God, what have the forums come to? So you are saying a GLITCH that EVERYONE can use is cheating?

Bnet Kid:d000dIJUST GOT KILL3D INSTANTLY ITS CHEETING!!!!!!!!!1111111

I don't even want to argue with you. /Topic

  • 06.19.2006 11:30 PM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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Posted by: ToXSicK II
Dear God, what have the forums come to? So you are saying a GLITCH that EVERYONE can use is cheating?

Bnet Kid:d000dIJUST GOT KILL3D INSTANTLY ITS CHEETING!!!!!!!!!1111111

I don't even want to argue with you. /Topic

I'm not the only one saying it, two groups of authorites are. You, and MLG have nothing to do with what goes on in Xbox LIVE, thus you make no rules, you do not determine what is cheating and what is not.

That's up to the people who want to keep the game fair, and played the way it was meant to be played.

*Hands you a Razor blade, and a container of salt*

[Edited on 6/19/2006]

  • 06.19.2006 11:32 PM PDT
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You DO realize that BXR is a reward for people who actually practice the game, don't you? Just because you are to lazy to get better and have to expand your knowledge of the game, you call it cheating.

I can now see why Alex Seropian left. Bungie is going from bad to worse. I feel sorry for the kiddies that are jumping on the Halo bandwagon as soon as H3 comes around.

  • 06.19.2006 11:35 PM PDT