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This topic has moved here: Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
  • Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
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Posted by: twinkiemaker
I think weapons are of secondary concern. In Halo 2, they added a little bit of auto-aim, but due to various issues (such as people not having access to decent broadband service), the amount of auto-aim introduced was insufficient.

We will always experience lag here and there for whatever reason, but if Bungie doubled, or even tripled the amount of auto-aim, then the game would be much more balanced.


This is a great idea, especially if Bungie refuses to see the effectiveness of games like 6v6 as opposed to BTB.

  • 06.14.2006 8:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Crankiest weasel
Probably the mothers of young children who play soccer.

Wiltron > Pros


I nominate Cranky for the role of playtesting.

I would also like to add that Super Smash Brothers was probably the game that was the most enjoyable to play yet had no "skill" or "pro" factor.

Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.


They better do it quickly before school begins again.

Are you serious? SSB has no skill? You must be playing the wrong people. SSB is the only multiplayer game I enjoy more than Halo, because it requires more skill than Halo in certain areas, such as reaction time, knowledge of the game, and having accurate reflexes. If SSB had no skill, MLG wouldn't host tournaments in it.

Dummy.

  • 06.14.2006 8:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Sparky1111
Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Crankiest weasel
Probably the mothers of young children who play soccer.

Wiltron > Pros


I nominate Cranky for the role of playtesting.

I would also like to add that Super Smash Brothers was probably the game that was the most enjoyable to play yet had no "skill" or "pro" factor.

Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.


They better do it quickly before school begins again.

Are you serious? SSB has no skill? You must be playing the wrong people. SSB is the only multiplayer game I enjoy more than Halo, because it requires more skill than Halo in certain areas, such as reaction time, knowledge of the game, and having accurate reflexes. If SSB had no skill, MLG wouldn't host tournaments in it.

Dummy.


Oh, yeah, you insult me only because you know I'd kick your ass in SSB. In your toothless face!

  • 06.14.2006 8:42 AM PDT

Posted by: Caer Bannog
I really hope there are no BR's or Pistols in the next Halo.


I believe they are bringing back something very similar to the Halo 1 pistol and something very similar to the Halo 1 asssult rifle. I heard this from some friends who may or may not be reliable.

I believe however, that there will definantly be some "markmanship" weapons in Halo 3. No matter what form they take.

  • 06.14.2006 8:50 AM PDT

Posted by: Wiltron
I believe the preferences of professional gamers matter LESS than the preferences of the "average" gamers. We (the average gamer) are their core audience. The professionals are a small, but vocal, minority. We are their cash cow. It would be a disaster if they made the game balanced, but inaccessible to the average Joe.

FUN>BALANCE


I understand what you're saying but I do disagree that they shouldn't hire pros to test. Pros have played the game, on average, to a much greater extent and with a greater understanding of it's nuances than the usual gamer. Thus they would be a more valuable tester. Novels aren't edited by some shmuck off the street simply because they are written for the shmucks ON the street. Editors are still very skilled in the art of language and writing.

  • 06.14.2006 9:12 AM PDT

Posted by: Wiltron
It would be a disaster if they made the game balanced, but inaccessible to the average Joe.

FUN>BALANCE


Well it doesn't have to be inaccessible to be balanced. It seems churlish to state that people who DO play video games to destruction shouldn't be allowed to test it just because you don't like their play style. I say let them test it, just don't let them dictate anything major.

BALANCE = FUN, or it should do.

  • 06.14.2006 9:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: KoinOperatedBoy
/sigh


Fine, considering you're too much of a punk do it your self I'll help you out.



Posted by: OksanaBayul
omg, halo 2 is 4 nubz i want halo 3 2 b just liek halo 1 no spray and pray only 1337 3sks

Pwnt.

  • 06.14.2006 9:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.

Advise, yes. Have complete control over, no.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 9:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: twinkiemaker
I think weapons are of secondary concern. In Halo 2, they added a little bit of auto-aim, but due to various issues (such as people not having access to decent broadband service), the amount of auto-aim introduced was insufficient.

We will always experience lag here and there for whatever reason, but if Bungie doubled, or even tripled the amount of auto-aim, then the game would be much more balanced.


This is a great idea, especially if Bungie refuses to see the effectiveness of games like 6v6 as opposed to BTB.


Are you serious? Triple amount of auto-aim? What are you a lvl2 n00b? Auto aim was sky high in h2 i'd like next to none in h3 it would make it more balanced.

  • 06.14.2006 9:25 AM PDT

Posted by: bayareaboss510
One game I'm not joking a little like 7 year old said and I quote " tell me what your dick looks like so I can imagine it in my head and beat off to it"


Posted by: TheColdWolf
If Team Swat became ranked, would there still be no shields?


Amazing!

Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.

What qualifies as a professional Halo/Halo 2 gamer? Seriously...

No MLG or moron like this is any better at giving insight or advice about the next project.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 9:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Pheonix
Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: twinkiemaker
I think weapons are of secondary concern. In Halo 2, they added a little bit of auto-aim, but due to various issues (such as people not having access to decent broadband service), the amount of auto-aim introduced was insufficient.

We will always experience lag here and there for whatever reason, but if Bungie doubled, or even tripled the amount of auto-aim, then the game would be much more balanced.


This is a great idea, especially if Bungie refuses to see the effectiveness of games like 6v6 as opposed to BTB.


Are you serious? Triple amount of auto-aim? What are you a lvl2 n00b? Auto aim was sky high in h2 i'd like next to none in h3 it would make it more balanced.


I am not a level 2 n00b, but you are a level 50 asshoIe. Balance that out...asshoIe.

  • 06.14.2006 9:38 AM PDT
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Bungie is probably going to bring in a bunch of 11 year olds to beta test Halo 3's multiplayer...

  • 06.14.2006 9:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Sparky1111
Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Crankiest weasel
Probably the mothers of young children who play soccer.

Wiltron > Pros


I nominate Cranky for the role of playtesting.

I would also like to add that Super Smash Brothers was probably the game that was the most enjoyable to play yet had no "skill" or "pro" factor.

Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.


They better do it quickly before school begins again.

Are you serious? SSB has no skill? You must be playing the wrong people. SSB is the only multiplayer game I enjoy more than Halo, because it requires more skill than Halo in certain areas, such as reaction time, knowledge of the game, and having accurate reflexes. If SSB had no skill, MLG wouldn't host tournaments in it.

Dummy.


Oh, yeah, you insult me only because you know I'd kick your ass in SSB. In your toothless face!


SSB is for babies.

  • 06.14.2006 10:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: Crankiest weasel
Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Sparky1111
Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Crankiest weasel
Probably the mothers of young children who play soccer.

Wiltron > Pros


I nominate Cranky for the role of playtesting.

I would also like to add that Super Smash Brothers was probably the game that was the most enjoyable to play yet had no "skill" or "pro" factor.

Posted by: PREDAT0R
It would be very wise for Bungie to hire at least a few professional Halo/Halo2 gamers with no bias towards the average gamer population to help with balance.


They better do it quickly before school begins again.

Are you serious? SSB has no skill? You must be playing the wrong people. SSB is the only multiplayer game I enjoy more than Halo, because it requires more skill than Halo in certain areas, such as reaction time, knowledge of the game, and having accurate reflexes. If SSB had no skill, MLG wouldn't host tournaments in it.

Dummy.


Oh, yeah, you insult me only because you know I'd kick your ass in SSB. In your toothless face!


SSB is for babies.


Your mama is for babies.

  • 06.14.2006 10:24 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

This is some board.

  • 06.14.2006 10:33 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: PREDAT0R
If SSB had no skill, MLG wouldn't host tournaments in it.


According to all the "MLG Pros" here on Bungie.net, Halo 2 takes no skill, yet its still played at MLG events. splain that one Lucy.

  • 06.14.2006 10:48 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

I think you misunderstood the statement. My statement was to point out that we make games that we think are fun. That's not to say we design in a vacuum. We take what we've learned from previous efforts, and apply it to our new projects. For example, we have an amazing amount of data on the kinds of games played on Xbox Live of Halo 2, so it would be silly to ignore that data when making the multiplayer experience of Halo 3.

Saying the statement I made was "stupid" or "idiotic" is short sighted and probably indicates you place a much greater importance on the group think of Internet forums than disciplined game design (which is extremely dangerous). The minute we start designing games solely based on what "the Internet" says we should do, start worrying. Not always doing what people expect is good - most of the time, people want more of the same because they don't really know what they want. That's how the matchmaking system came about - and despite what some of you think, that system is responsible for keeping Halo 2 at the top of the Xbox Live charts for so long.

Posted by: alecs36
Yes i remember that, it's just a pretty stupid thing to say. While i'm confident with what bungie is doing with halo 3 or any of their games (so far they've done an amazing job) it's stupid to say that they'll make the game however they want it, and expect it to sell, without much concern on the customer / fan, since they're the ones who will be buying the game. If nobody buys it, you've just screwed yourself and lost your job. Just because you've been successful so far doesn't mean you can change somthing major to the games, such as taking out CTF or team slayer in multiplayer/online, just because you (the developers) feel it's better without it.. if the customers and or fans want it in there, and it's not, they will probably not buy the game. So yes, just a completely idiotic statement.

  • 06.14.2006 11:00 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You do realize that that playlist (6v6) went away because you guys didn't play it all that much, right? And that this same community didn't want 6v6 originally (which we were going to use to replace BTB). And now you're saying that you actually wanted 6v6 even though everybody wanted to BTB instead and nobody played 6v6 online...

Both sides can't be true. This is also the same story with Rumble Hardcore. We resisted it because we knew people wouldn't play it, but "The Internet" said otherwise, so we made it (with this community's help), and it is the least played playlist.

Seems like both are proving my point that "The Internet" is not the best source of information unless properly used (an example of it working well would be the Team Hardcore playlist, which seems to be doing well).

Posted by: Caer Bannog
This is a great idea, especially if Bungie refuses to see the effectiveness of games like 6v6 as opposed to BTB.

  • 06.14.2006 11:08 AM PDT

I dont understand why people think that if the game is skill-based and balanced that the "average gamer" (whatever that means) wont play or enjoy it. Dont any of you realize that Halo 1 was an incredibly skill-based and balanced game and people loved it, from the noobs to the pros? Why do you think Halo 2 sold so well? Because the trailer looked awsome? NO, it sold because Halo 1 was such a hit. A balanced game is a better game, but many people dont know enough about the game and havent put in enough time with it to realize what makes the game balanced or good.


Before all of you get up-in-arms because I wrote the words "skill" and "balance," stop for a second and dont let your unfounded bais about these words get in the way of clear thinking. There can be a marraige between skill-based gameplay and fun gameplay, just look at Halo
1.

The best we can hope for is for Bungie to take what they learned from Halo 2 (hopefully some hard-learned lessons about balance) and apply that the bring their next game closer to the roots that made the series such a hit in the first place.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:11 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The autoaim wasn't sky high in Halo 2. Go play Star Wars Battlefrotna dnt hen tell me Halo 2's auto-aim is sky high.

  • 06.14.2006 11:12 AM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Who the hell is NoF?

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:16 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Achronos
I think you misunderstood the statement. My statement was to point out that we make games that we think are fun. That's not to say we design in a vacuum. We take what we've learned from previous efforts, and apply it to our new projects. For example, we have an amazing amount of data on the kinds of games played on Xbox Live of Halo 2, so it would be silly to ignore that data when making the multiplayer experience of Halo 3.

Saying the statement I made was "stupid" or "idiotic" is short sighted and probably indicates you place a much greater importance on the group think of Internet forums than disciplined game design (which is extremely dangerous). The minute we start designing games solely based on what "the Internet" says we should do, start worrying. Not always doing what people expect is good - most of the time, people want more of the same because they don't really know what they want. That's how the matchmaking system came about - and despite what some of you think, that system is responsible for keeping Halo 2 at the top of the Xbox Live charts for so long.



That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.

  • 06.14.2006 11:19 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Achronos
You do realize that that playlist (6v6) went away because you guys didn't play it all that much, right? And that this same community didn't want 6v6 originally (which we were going to use to replace BTB). And now you're saying that you actually wanted 6v6 even though everybody wanted to BTB instead and nobody played 6v6 online...

Both sides can't be true. This is also the same story with Rumble Hardcore. We resisted it because we knew people wouldn't play it, but "The Internet" said otherwise, so we made it (with this community's help), and it is the least played playlist.

Seems like both are proving my point that "The Internet" is not the best source of information unless properly used (an example of it working well would be the Team Hardcore playlist, which seems to be doing well).

Posted by: Caer Bannog
This is a great idea, especially if Bungie refuses to see the effectiveness of games like 6v6 as opposed to BTB.


Team Hardcore is doing well because I was involved. ;) And it's a team game.

Your Halo2 game is a team game by design. At the same time, your game is played with an individual host. Therefor, your individualized playlists are doomed to fail for these reasons. It's elementary.

  • 06.14.2006 11:23 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Who the hell is NoF?


Jesus Christ or Ninja On Fire. They are one and the same if you like Halo.

Achronos makes it so hard to like him. I try, I really do, but his perspective just seems so skewd...so out of touch...so internalized. BUT I'M TRYING REAL HARD TOM!

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:25 AM PDT