Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
  • Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?

Posted by: Rendrag
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: Rendrag
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: OksanaBayul
So, are we agreed that a ratio of playtesters could be 100 to 1 in favor of casual gamers to a competitive gamer?

I'd take just one.


I would take just some input from one of them. I hope if Bungie does agree to get a top players input they keep it on the down-low so their forums dont explode.


Hey Show, this is Enemy BTW, <3


XBC tonight? Can you believe this stuff? I didnt know people like this existed, or at least I never hoped to run into one.


Ya, xbc sounds good. Akno and I should be on. Hopefully I will have a timer by tonight.

God I hate this place.


But its so damn entertaining.

Hopefully my XBC decides to work.

  • 06.20.2006 10:45 AM PDT

.

I completely agree with Oksana and BigShow in every way.

  • 06.20.2006 10:45 AM PDT

Posted by: gophillies
hey bigshow, remember that time we played a 1v1 on midship xbc. OWNED!!!!!!!!


Haha, Im so embarrassed. Maybe I dont know what Im talking about after all??!?!?!

  • 06.20.2006 10:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: NASWI Tango
Posted by: Otis Redding
He's in love with Big Show and followed him here like a puppy.


Then tell your mom and sister to quit giving him BJ's.

OMG


HAHAHA

*end of thread*

  • 06.20.2006 10:53 AM PDT

Posted by: grunt pimpa
you know if a mod sees that stuff guys youll probly be perma banned.


If a mod sees this thread he should ban Otis just on principle.

  • 06.20.2006 10:55 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

This thread is becoming stupid. It is on the verge of being locked. After I post this, by the way, a few of you are going to get banned for trolling. Hopefully that will clean it up a bit.

1. Yes, exploiting a glitch is cheating in matchmaking, and no, I don't care that MLG players use the button combos. They're still glitches.
2. Of course, that being said, the mechanism by which such cheating is reported is through the Xbox Live feedback mechanism. Since the players you're playing against would be the ones reporting you, if the players don't care that you're using it, then you have nothing to worry about. If, as you say, "everybody at my level is doing it", then I guess it won't matter, will it?
3. I suggest not using the argument about you being blamed for our bugs. I'm not blaming you for our bugs. I'm blaming you for using them. There is no difference between deliberately superjumping and deliberately interrupting an animation with your button combo. I've read all your arguments, and none of them address the fact that you are exploiting a bug for your advantage. You simply try to justify yourself.
4. Finally, to answer your question on who is playtesting Halo 3 for balance: gnomes. Underpants gnomes.
5. If you think that last answer was silly, that was deliberate - as the question itself lacks understanding of the process. There are two kinds of testing here. First, there are playtests. That's when we bring people in from all walks of life (yes, all) and instruct them to do various things in the game. It gives us insight into how various kinds of people approach a problem. We do this not only for gameplay, but for UI, among other things. There is also testing to find bugs and insure the game isn't broken in some way. These bugs can be as serious as crash bugs, to the more mundane missing texture. The people doing that are professional testers, of varying experience and game skill levels.

So, in both cases, simply calling up the top MLG winners and asking them to playtest would not be productive. In the first case, a lot of times a playtest is dependent on a random sample of people to be an effective measurement (for the things that are being tested in that manner). For the second case, having skill in Halo 2 is not a prereq for effectively testing Halo 3. That's not to say we won't have Halo experts bang on the game, but it is to say that I think you overestimate the impact they could have. You probably don't agree, but there's probably nothing I can do to convince you of that, so I won't try.

  • 06.20.2006 10:56 AM PDT
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3. I suggest not using the argument about you being blamed for our bugs. I'm not blaming you for our bugs. I'm blaming you for using them. There is no difference between deliberately superjumping and

Then who is to blame for your bugs? The underpants gnomes....stfu with that -blam!-.

  • 06.20.2006 11:01 AM PDT
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Guys, if you press the jump button and crouch at the same time, you go higher, thats obviously cheating amirite? If you press YY to cancel a reload you are obviously cheating amirite? This is just ridiculous, just cause you can't do simple button combo's you want to ban it, this place gets worse by the day. When Ninja came back I thought it would be a good thing, not something to get button combo's banned. Anyway, there's no possible way they can ban you for it unless they rely on the feedback system. In which any angry person that just lost, can send cheating feedback. Also lagg can make it look like someone BxR, or BxB'd but they didn't. And some melees with the BR (horizontal) are faster then other melees (vertical). Of course noone here really noticed that but whatever..

  • 06.20.2006 11:01 AM PDT

Posted by: Achronos

1. Yes, exploiting a glitch is cheating in matchmaking, and no, I don't care that MLG players use the button combos. They're still glitches.
2. Of course, that being said, the mechanism by which such cheating is reported is through the Xbox Live feedback mechanism. Since the players you're playing against would be the ones reporting you, if the players don't care that you're using it, then you have nothing to worry about. If, as you say, "everybody at my level is doing it", then I guess it won't matter, will it?
3. I suggest not using the argument about you being blamed for our bugs. I'm not blaming you for our bugs. I'm blaming you for using them. There is no difference between deliberately superjumping and deliberately interrupting an animation with your button combo. I've read all your arguments, and none of them address the fact that you are exploiting a bug for your advantage. You simply try to justify yourself.


Well isnt simply switching weapons a button combo? How do you differentiate between the two; They are both button combos. You didnt intend for them to be in the game? Actually, you intentionally included everything about the BXB in the game, the melee and the cancel, you just didnt intend them to be strung together like that. Why? Probably because of lack of effective testing. If someone who is looking for that sort of thing was testing the games, you probably wouldnt have to worry about it being missed. That sort of knowledge would require someone who intimately knows HOW the game is PLAYED, not the details of the code, but how the game actually plays.

Posted by: Achronos
First, there are playtests. That's when we bring people in from all walks of life (yes, all) and instruct them to do various things in the game.


Including top MLG players?

  • 06.20.2006 11:02 AM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

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Posted by: ToXSicK II
have you given me an answer as to why cheating is a reward for those who practice H2? No? Ok.

You said BXRs are a reward for people who practice H2. Thus, you said cheating is only for the really good players, when it is in fact the total opposite.

  • 06.20.2006 11:03 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Achronos
This thread is becoming stupid. It is on the verge of being locked. After I post this, by the way, a few of you are going to get banned for trolling. Hopefully that will clean it up a bit.

1. Yes, exploiting a glitch is cheating in matchmaking, and no, I don't care that MLG players use the button combos. They're still glitches.
2. Of course, that being said, the mechanism by which such cheating is reported is through the Xbox Live feedback mechanism. Since the players you're playing against would be the ones reporting you, if the players don't care that you're using it, then you have nothing to worry about. If, as you say, "everybody at my level is doing it", then I guess it won't matter, will it?
3. I suggest not using the argument about you being blamed for our bugs. I'm not blaming you for our bugs. I'm blaming you for using them. There is no difference between deliberately superjumping and deliberately interrupting an animation with your button combo. I've read all your arguments, and none of them address the fact that you are exploiting a bug for your advantage. You simply try to justify yourself.
4. Finally, to answer your question on who is playtesting Halo 3 for balance: gnomes. Underpants gnomes.
5. If you think that last answer was silly, that was deliberate - as the question itself lacks understanding of the process. There are two kinds of testing here. First, there are playtests. That's when we bring people in from all walks of life (yes, all) and instruct them to do various things in the game. It gives us insight into how various kinds of people approach a problem. We do this not only for gameplay, but for UI, among other things. There is also testing to find bugs and insure the game isn't broken in some way. These bugs can be as serious as crash bugs, to the more mundane missing texture. The people doing that are professional testers, of varying experience and game skill levels.

So, in both cases, simply calling up the top MLG winners and asking them to playtest would not be productive. In the first case, a lot of times a playtest is dependent on a random sample of people to be an effective measurement (for the things that are being tested in that manner). For the second case, having skill in Halo 2 is not a prereq for effectively testing Halo 3. That's not to say we won't have Halo experts bang on the game, but it is to say that I think you overestimate the impact they could have. You probably don't agree, but there's probably nothing I can do to convince you of that, so I won't try.


Perhaps I overestimate...I could agree with that. I am encouraged that you have "Halo experts bang on the game..." and I thank you for your candid response.

And I chortled at the gnome comment. :) Thanks for cleaning up the thread. You are providing interesting information and we all appreciate it.

And no, I guess nobody is giving cheating feedback that I play with for doing a button combo. It's pretty much status quo to do the button combos, I don't think anyone really thinks about it anymore...it just is what it is. Although, I am saddened you'd think I'm cheating Tom. I do not feel like I'm hurting anyone's gaming experience, nor are they hurting mine with button combos.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

[Edited on 6/20/2006]

  • 06.20.2006 11:10 AM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: OksanaBayul
Wow, I guess I am. This is unbelievable.

Mo it's not.
So it's now my fault that Bungie has a glitchy game. I guess I'm guilty. This is preposterous. You need to rethink your cheating philosphy Bungie...you made the game...the gamers just know what can be done with it.
Is that reallly your state of mind? If someone can't catch you, you will continue doing it? I'd hate to see you when you grow up..
Is it also cheating to crouch jump up to sword platform on Midship? I crouch jump all the time to hard to reach spaces...is this cheating? Crouch jumping is glitchy...every player that starts the game has to learn how to get to hard to reach places...OH NO! I guess when I manage to crouch jump to the top of Pink on Midship I'm cheating. Is slide jumping a glitch? Is edge jumping cheating? Is coming up base lift and dropping the ball and batting it up Pink ramp on Midship cheating? That's glitchy too. Damn near everything is glitchy.
None of those thigns are cheating, because they are intended purposes, and not against both Xbox LIVE's ToS and Bunei's Rules.
Super jumping is one thing. Button combos are quite another. Rethink your stance Tom, it's your game build.
They will not rethink anything for cheaters. Alll cheating can be compared, they can also be compared to real life instances. Let me demonstrate.

Steroids = Mods

Running offsides with the ball, but not giving it to the ref = Standby

Scoring all your goals in soccer, with your hands = BXRing

  • 06.20.2006 11:15 AM PDT

It's fun when we win and funny when we lose: Le Mediocrity
OR
Come take your verbal beating like a man in THE CAVE

... and with that, Achy answers the burning question: Who is Playtesting H3 for balance?

Game experts, professional testers, good players, bad players, underpants gnomes, and Justin Bailey's mom. A good slice of the target demographic.

Yet another wacky Zanzibar thread comes to a close (yes, I said "Zanzibar". It's definitely in the old spirit).

  • 06.20.2006 11:18 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

There, Shishka and I cleaned the thread up with some permanent and some temporary bans.

That should help keep the thread on track.

  • 06.20.2006 11:21 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: OksanaBayul
Wow, I guess I am. This is unbelievable.

Mo it's not.
So it's now my fault that Bungie has a glitchy game. I guess I'm guilty. This is preposterous. You need to rethink your cheating philosphy Bungie...you made the game...the gamers just know what can be done with it.
Is that reallly your state of mind? If someone can't catch you, you will continue doing it? I'd hate to see you when you grow up..
Is it also cheating to crouch jump up to sword platform on Midship? I crouch jump all the time to hard to reach spaces...is this cheating? Crouch jumping is glitchy...every player that starts the game has to learn how to get to hard to reach places...OH NO! I guess when I manage to crouch jump to the top of Pink on Midship I'm cheating. Is slide jumping a glitch? Is edge jumping cheating? Is coming up base lift and dropping the ball and batting it up Pink ramp on Midship cheating? That's glitchy too. Damn near everything is glitchy.
None of those thigns are cheating, because they are intended purposes, and not against both Xbox LIVE's ToS and Bunei's Rules.
Super jumping is one thing. Button combos are quite another. Rethink your stance Tom, it's your game build.
They will not rethink anything for cheaters. Alll cheating can be compared, they can also be compared to real life instances. Let me demonstrate.

Steroids = Mods

Running offsides with the ball, but not giving it to the ref = Standby

Scoring all your goals in soccer, with your hands = BXRing


I didn't know button combos were considered cheating until about 30 minutes ago.

I am grown up. I'm probably older than Achronos. But thanks for making me feel young again.

I understand that superbouncing is cheating. However, I don't think I'll ever be convinced that button combos are cheating nor do I appreciate being branded a cheater because I can hit B then X then B. It's just so commonplace...and it doesn't break the game.

Superbouncing breaks the game...it's got no place in the game and has to be outlawed.

[Edited on 6/20/2006]

  • 06.20.2006 11:21 AM PDT