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  • Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?
Subject: Who is playtesting Halo3 for balance?

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Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Who the hell is NoF?


Jesus Christ or Ninja On Fire. They are one and the same if you like Halo.

N0F? Isn't it Ninja 0n Fire?

Anyway, good, I was going to think it was some 'pro gamer clan'.


------
I think that they should allow 3 "pros" from the community, 10 great players who enjoy regular settings, 12 people who are average with regular settings, 24 who suck, and 10 who enjoy random weapon settings.

This would vary the demographic, and if the "pros" try to make things too boring like MLG became, the others will easily overpower them in the final vote..or however they present the info to Bungie.

Also, if the 'pros' find a new button combo and try to hide it, so there can be a 'competitive edge' in Halo 3, the others should give them up immediately.


The offending 'pros' would then be locked up, and lashed with sticky twizzlers until Halo 3 launches.


[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:27 AM PDT

I played 6v6 a helluva lot more than big team.

Less lag.

There seemed to be plenty of people playing too.

  • 06.14.2006 11:36 AM PDT

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Yeah, remove the 2 hardcore playlists, and bring back 6v6..6v6 was greta since I usually have 4 friends on while I play Halo, and we don't want to play BTB..too laggy..

  • 06.14.2006 11:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Target
I played 6v6 a helluva lot more than big team.

Less lag.

There seemed to be plenty of people playing too.


Yeah...I mean, if 6v6 was less popular than BTB then I can see the reason for dropping it, but really Team Slayer and the regular gametypes will always beat out the bigger games everytime.

I'm willing to bet if 6v6 started out as a usable playlist in matchmaking in the beginning, it would have been more popular, just because the lag is so terrible in BTB.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:43 AM PDT

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Why do we even have Hardcore playlists? They suck, bring back 6v6! w00t.

  • 06.14.2006 11:47 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

That's not how they operate at Bungie. If the pie chart comes up snake eyes for your playlist, then it goes. They are surgical about removing stale playlists.

"The numbers don't lie." was a phrase invented by Bungie don't ya know.

In most cases, they are correct though. If nobody is playing, then the playlist has got to go.

Back to topic: I hope they make NoF President, CEO and Big Kahuna of Bungie, and that he's lead playtester.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 11:48 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Why do we even have Hardcore playlists? They suck, bring back 6v6! w00t.


Back on topic!

Oh, and Team Hardcore is brilliant...hush. :)

  • 06.14.2006 11:49 AM PDT
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"Balance" is a blasphemous word to Halo. Everything balanced=mediocre game. All's fair in combat. It's not "unfair" if you get killed.

And besides, it's not like Bungie can win over the fans anyway. People will complain either way.

  • 06.14.2006 11:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: Achronos
I think you misunderstood the statement. My statement was to point out that we make games that we think are fun. That's not to say we design in a vacuum. We take what we've learned from previous efforts, and apply it to our new projects. For example, we have an amazing amount of data on the kinds of games played on Xbox Live of Halo 2, so it would be silly to ignore that data when making the multiplayer experience of Halo 3.

Saying the statement I made was "stupid" or "idiotic" is short sighted and probably indicates you place a much greater importance on the group think of Internet forums than disciplined game design (which is extremely dangerous). The minute we start designing games solely based on what "the Internet" says we should do, start worrying. Not always doing what people expect is good - most of the time, people want more of the same because they don't really know what they want. That's how the matchmaking system came about - and despite what some of you think, that system is responsible for keeping Halo 2 at the top of the Xbox Live charts for so long.



That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.


Last I checked, Halo and Halo 2 are two of the greatest selling games of all time, with Halo 2 still being the number one game on XBL. If you dislike it... go play something else?

I agree with Achronos's assertion about MM- heck, go play almost any other game over XBL and it's murder to try and even get a game going. It's pretty much the same thing as when I join a friend of a friend's custom game- nobody can decide on what to play, people are delaying countdowns, people are shouting for "Tower of Power" and "Hide and Seek". The thing that's really great about MM is that it just throws you straight into a game, without the hassle of all that other stuff. While I think MM should have perhaps some kind of filters, I think Halo 2 stands as the best game to play over Live competitively for this reason. I think that without MM, this game would have died long ago.

  • 06.14.2006 11:51 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Seven7h
"Balance" is a blasphemous word to Halo. Everything balanced=mediocre game. All's fair in combat. It's not "unfair" if you get killed.

And besides, it's not like Bungie can win over the fans anyway. People will complain either way.


A bad starting spawn actually is unfair...and this is a game. Unfair games fail. I want Halo3 to succeed.

  • 06.14.2006 11:54 AM PDT

Posted by: Seven7h
"Balance" is a blasphemous word to Halo. Everything balanced=mediocre game. All's fair in combat. It's not "unfair" if you get killed.

And besides, it's not like Bungie can win over the fans anyway. People will complain either way.


This post leads me to believe that you have no idea what you are talking about.

  • 06.14.2006 11:55 AM PDT

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Halo games are actually the most balanced out there..no, not the way the "pro MLG kiddies" play them..the way it was meant to be played. It's a beautiful game..not too many powerups, randomized spawns, great weapon placement, no upgrading weapons, or character stats...they're wonderful games.

I can see where you're coming from though..MLG thinks it's unbalanced since not all weapons have as much auto-aim or range as a BR, so they basically play the same thing over and over (on 4 maps).

  • 06.14.2006 12:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Target
I played 6v6 a helluva lot more than big team.

Less lag.

There seemed to be plenty of people playing too.


Yeah...I mean, if 6v6 was less popular than BTB then I can see the reason for dropping it, but really Team Slayer and the regular gametypes will always beat out the bigger games everytime.

I'm willing to bet if 6v6 started out as a usable playlist in matchmaking in the beginning, it would have been more popular, just because the lag is so terrible in BTB.

Let me answer this before I respond to achronos. The reason it lags is cause Bunge is giving host to a person who has a kbps upstream to host a playlist that is designed for a mbps upstream. 85% of the people who get host in the USA are still on kbps upstream. Now a few ISP are actually upgrading people to the mbps upstream, like a la Verizon FIOS.
Everybody else in the rest of the world are on mbps upsteam but it lags even in full green bars because of PING(latency). Not only that but we have to send our info across the coutry to the host before it goes to the persons box so that causes it to lag and shots not register. We have to send our info to the middle man instead of skip the middle man so the info goesn't go from point A to C but with H2 it has to go from point A to point B than to point C.

  • 06.14.2006 12:09 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Sigh. While it is true I do get tired dealing with people like you who think that they know everything, thankfully most people around here are much more understanding.

Anyway, you seem to have completely missed the point. Matchmaking's purpose IS to match gamers up with people of similar skill, but quickly. This means less time in menus and more time actually playing the game. I was using it as an example of something in Halo 2 that nobody "requested" but after implemented, found it was a good solution to a problem with the status quo that nobody had ever solved in that way. Apparently, you latched on to the idea that playlists are our way of telling you how to play the game... which isn't the case at all. If it were, Custom Games wouldn't exist. Like so many others, you're complaining about a fault in the party system (it is hard to find other players to fill your party's empty slots) rather than the matchmaking system. Of course, we weren't talking about that particular issue, so I'm wondering what relevance it had to the actual conversation. Or are you just one of those people who talks at other people, rather than participating in the conversation? Ironic that you accused me of the same thing... at least I was on topic.

Regarding your other statements... well, I'm not sure what to say. I don't recall working on a game for children. I recall working on two M rated games that by all measures are successful. I'm sorry you think I'm preachy. Usually the only people who ever make silly claims like that are ones who either don't like what they're hearing (usually people who are getting banned) or people who can't discuss things on topic without making things personal. It is possible to disagree with what I've said without trying to insult someone. You should try it - maybe you should try to post again, and explain your position. Then we can engage in a real debate of ideas, and hopefully come off better for it. Or, you can post more drivel, and waste everyone's time some more. But that would probably irritate everyone else who enjoys having a good debate of design ideas. I think we just have a different perspective on the game. It is unfortunate that you use this forum (that the designers of the game read!) to be close minded instead of trying to get your throughts heard.

Here, I'll try and restart the discussion, to make things easier. I do believe most people don't know what they want. This isn't about playlists (focusing on that is simple-minded and not what I mean, pay attention now) - once you're presented with a list of features (say, all the customizations possible in a game of Halo 2), most people are easily capable of knowing what they want. I'm referring to the possibilities of what people want for Halo 3 - while some people are trying to think of new things they want in terms of gameplay, far more people just want "it to be like Halo 1", or "be like Halo 2", but with more maps and guns and better graphics. This becomes especially true the more popular something is - witness the calls we still get for a remake of Halo 1 that has Xbox Live capability. We think it is a good idea as a studio to include some stuff people expect, but that a sequel should tread off the beaten path and change up the status quo. Hence... matchmaking, destructible vehicles, etc. in Halo 2. They changed a lot about the way the game played. But we figure if we make then new game fun, then people have a reason to get the game versus playing its previous incarnation. It would have been easier in Halo 2 to simply make a new campaign, up the graphics a bit, and add a basic Xbox Live implementation. But I doubt the game would have been as popular, or as fun.

Anyway, this post is already too long. But maybe that will spur some relevant discussion. OksanaBayul, I'm sure you have some insightful comments to make, just stop trying to make it personal - this is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a place to insult people just because they have a different perspective on things.

Posted by: OksanaBayul
That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.

  • 06.14.2006 12:11 PM PDT

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Who the hell is NoF?


Jesus Christ or Ninja On Fire. They are one and the same if you like Halo.

N0F? Isn't it Ninja 0n Fire?

Anyway, good, I was going to think it was some 'pro gamer clan'.


------
I think that they should allow 3 "pros" from the community, 10 great players who enjoy regular settings, 12 people who are average with regular settings, 24 who suck, and 10 who enjoy random weapon settings.

This would vary the demographic, and if the "pros" try to make things too boring like MLG became, the others will easily overpower them in the final vote..or however they present the info to Bungie.

Also, if the 'pros' find a new button combo and try to hide it, so there can be a 'competitive edge' in Halo 3, the others should give them up immediately.


The offending 'pros' would then be locked up, and lashed with sticky twizzlers until Halo 3 launches.


This man is a genius. The pro-MLG people make me sick to my stomach, with all of their little BXR and BXB and RXR and whatever-X-whatevers.

I think that the pros have way too much of an influence over the gaming community, because they think that because they are so much better than us because they are divorced, they work at the local Mickey D's, and they sit on their couches all day long playing this game, doesn't mean that they can dictate what is "fair" in their eyes, because "fair" to them is a completely balanced map, no radars, no duel-wields, and nothing but Battle Rifles. I think those of us who play this for fun and actually have LIVES think fair is different.

Nuff said.

  • 06.14.2006 12:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Sigh. While it is true I do get tired dealing with people like you who think that they know everything, thankfully most people around here are much more understanding.

Anyway, you seem to have completely missed the point. Matchmaking's purpose IS to match gamers up with people of similar skill, but quickly. This means less time in menus and more time actually playing the game. I was using it as an example of something in Halo 2 that nobody "requested" but after implemented, found it was a good solution to a problem with the status quo that nobody had ever solved in that way. Apparently, you latched on to the idea that playlists are our way of telling you how to play the game... which isn't the case at all. If it were, Custom Games wouldn't exist. Like so many others, you're complaining about a fault in the party system (it is hard to find other players to fill your party's empty slots) rather than the matchmaking system. Of course, we weren't talking about that particular issue, so I'm wondering what relevance it had to the actual conversation. Or are you just one of those people who talks at other people, rather than participating in the conversation? Ironic that you accused me of the same thing... at least I was on topic.

Regarding your other statements... well, I'm not sure what to say. I don't recall working on a game for children. I recall working on two M rated games that by all measures are successful. I'm sorry you think I'm preachy. Usually the only people who ever make silly claims like that are ones who either don't like what they're hearing (usually people who are getting banned) or people who can't discuss things on topic without making things personal. It is possible to disagree with what I've said without trying to insult someone. You should try it - maybe you should try to post again, and explain your position. Then we can engage in a real debate of ideas, and hopefully come off better for it. Or, you can post more drivel, and waste everyone's time some more. But that would probably irritate everyone else who enjoys having a good debate of design ideas. I think we just have a different perspective on the game. It is unfortunate that you use this forum (that the designers of the game read!) to be close minded instead of trying to get your throughts heard.

Here, I'll try and restart the discussion, to make things easier. I do believe most people don't know what they want. This isn't about playlists (focusing on that is simple-minded and not what I mean, pay attention now) - once you're presented with a list of features (say, all the customizations possible in a game of Halo 2), most people are easily capable of knowing what they want. I'm referring to the possibilities of what people want for Halo 3 - while some people are trying to think of new things they want in terms of gameplay, far more people just want "it to be like Halo 1", or "be like Halo 2", but with more maps and guns and better graphics. This becomes especially true the more popular something is - witness the calls we still get for a remake of Halo 1 that has Xbox Live capability. We think it is a good idea as a studio to include some stuff people expect, but that a sequel should tread off the beaten path and change up the status quo. Hence... matchmaking, destructible vehicles, etc. in Halo 2. They changed a lot about the way the game played. But we figure if we make then new game fun, then people have a reason to get the game versus playing its previous incarnation. It would have been easier in Halo 2 to simply make a new campaign, up the graphics a bit, and add a basic Xbox Live implementation. But I doubt the game would have been as popular, or as fun.

Anyway, this post is already too long. But maybe that will spur some relevant discussion. OksanaBayul, I'm sure you have some insightful comments to make, just stop trying to make it personal - this is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a place to insult people just because they have a different perspective on things.

Posted by: OksanaBayul
That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.


I agree.

  • 06.14.2006 12:25 PM PDT
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Or are you just one of those people who talks at other people, rather than participating in the conversation?

2 things. 1) you are the "manager" so you are supposed to calm and polite and 2) 'The customer is always right'

But lets move away from the flaming and back to the topic

You all speak of balance but balance means different things to different people. For example earlier on in this topic people were complaning of too much/ too little auto aim. This can not be balanced unless they keep it the same which in turn dissapoints both parties. The matter of fact is that Bungie can only set the bar and we have to play to it and ask Bungie to move it a little bit up, then a little bit down. Or Bungie could call everyone who bought a copy of Halo 2 and ask them how they would change the game and then try to colaberate everyone's ideas. But then people will contradict each other because (the only thing i agree with Achronos is that) people they don't fully know what they want and even if they do it what they want not what everyone wants.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 12:38 PM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: Achronos
Sigh. While it is true I do get tired dealing with people like you who think that they know everything, thankfully most people around here are much more understanding.

Anyway, you seem to have completely missed the point. Matchmaking's purpose IS to match gamers up with people of similar skill, but quickly. This means less time in menus and more time actually playing the game. I was using it as an example of something in Halo 2 that nobody "requested" but after implemented, found it was a good solution to a problem with the status quo that nobody had ever solved in that way. Apparently, you latched on to the idea that playlists are our way of telling you how to play the game... which isn't the case at all. If it were, Custom Games wouldn't exist. Like so many others, you're complaining about a fault in the party system (it is hard to find other players to fill your party's empty slots) rather than the matchmaking system. Of course, we weren't talking about that particular issue, so I'm wondering what relevance it had to the actual conversation. Or are you just one of those people who talks at other people, rather than participating in the conversation? Ironic that you accused me of the same thing... at least I was on topic.

Regarding your other statements... well, I'm not sure what to say. I don't recall working on a game for children. I recall working on two M rated games that by all measures are successful. I'm sorry you think I'm preachy. Usually the only people who ever make silly claims like that are ones who either don't like what they're hearing (usually people who are getting banned) or people who can't discuss things on topic without making things personal. It is possible to disagree with what I've said without trying to insult someone. You should try it - maybe you should try to post again, and explain your position. Then we can engage in a real debate of ideas, and hopefully come off better for it. Or, you can post more drivel, and waste everyone's time some more. But that would probably irritate everyone else who enjoys having a good debate of design ideas. I think we just have a different perspective on the game. It is unfortunate that you use this forum (that the designers of the game read!) to be close minded instead of trying to get your throughts heard.

Here, I'll try and restart the discussion, to make things easier. I do believe most people don't know what they want. This isn't about playlists (focusing on that is simple-minded and not what I mean, pay attention now) - once you're presented with a list of features (say, all the customizations possible in a game of Halo 2), most people are easily capable of knowing what they want. I'm referring to the possibilities of what people want for Halo 3 - while some people are trying to think of new things they want in terms of gameplay, far more people just want "it to be like Halo 1", or "be like Halo 2", but with more maps and guns and better graphics. This becomes especially true the more popular something is - witness the calls we still get for a remake of Halo 1 that has Xbox Live capability. We think it is a good idea as a studio to include some stuff people expect, but that a sequel should tread off the beaten path and change up the status quo. Hence... matchmaking, destructible vehicles, etc. in Halo 2. They changed a lot about the way the game played. But we figure if we make then new game fun, then people have a reason to get the game versus playing its previous incarnation. It would have been easier in Halo 2 to simply make a new campaign, up the graphics a bit, and add a basic Xbox Live implementation. But I doubt the game would have been as popular, or as fun.

Anyway, this post is already too long. But maybe that will spur some relevant discussion. OksanaBayul, I'm sure you have some insightful comments to make, just stop trying to make it personal - this is supposed to be a discussion forum, not a place to insult people just because they have a different perspective on things.

Posted by: OksanaBayul
That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.


Wow Tom, I'm at a loss. I hope I'm not going to be banned because I think you're preachy, egotistical and patronizing. Is thinking this against the rules of the board? You just put out that vibe. I could be wrong. Perhaps you're none of those things. It's just you come off that way in my opinion. But what do I know?

You think I'm a know-it-all that lacks compassion and understanding for the difficulties of game design, and I take no offense, though I'm neither.

I, like you, want Halo3 to succeed, which is why I post here. For the love of the game.

I made this topic about playtesting because I'm curious to see who's been tasked with the job...and how they are going to go about creating balance, if that indeed is the goal. The Matchmaking discussion was a tangent based on your response to another forum goer.

I was under the impression that the sole purpose of matchmaking was to match you up with like leveled players. The random game generating aspect is another conversation altogether. I never said I had a problem with Matchmaking. I have a problem with your stance on gamer preferences. Your stance effects how Halo3 and future Bungie games will be designed. That worries me.

If I've been overly critical of you, well, I apologize. But remember, we all want Halo3 to be a phenomenal success at the end of the day.



  • 06.14.2006 12:50 PM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: darkhart
Or are you just one of those people who talks at other people, rather than participating in the conversation?

2 things. 1) you are the "manager" so you are supposed to calm and polite and 2) 'The customer is always right'



It's ok, I deserved it. He was in his right to say that, it wasn't an unexpected response. It's fine.

And the customer is definately not always right. :)

  • 06.14.2006 12:58 PM PDT
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BUNGIE KNOWS BEST




stop complaining

  • 06.14.2006 12:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: death incarneate
BUNGIE KNOWS BEST




stop complaining


what about the Arbitiier????

  • 06.14.2006 1:00 PM PDT

Posted by: Spartan2010

This man is a genius. The pro-MLG people make me sick to my stomach, with all of their little BXR and BXB and RXR and whatever-X-whatevers.

I think that the pros have way too much of an influence over the gaming community, because they think that because they are so much better than us because they are divorced, they work at the local Mickey D's, and they sit on their couches all day long playing this game, doesn't mean that they can dictate what is "fair" in their eyes, because "fair" to them is a completely balanced map, no radars, no duel-wields, and nothing but Battle Rifles. I think those of us who play this for fun and actually have LIVES think fair is different.

Nuff said.


You shouldnt post about things which you obviously know nothing about. And NO, I am not associated with MLG, I dont even play Halo 2 anymore.

The problem is not that they have too much influence over the community, its that they have too little.

[Edited on 6/14/2006]

  • 06.14.2006 1:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: OksanaBayul
Posted by: Achronos
I think you misunderstood the statement. My statement was to point out that we make games that we think are fun. That's not to say we design in a vacuum. We take what we've learned from previous efforts, and apply it to our new projects. For example, we have an amazing amount of data on the kinds of games played on Xbox Live of Halo 2, so it would be silly to ignore that data when making the multiplayer experience of Halo 3.

Saying the statement I made was "stupid" or "idiotic" is short sighted and probably indicates you place a much greater importance on the group think of Internet forums than disciplined game design (which is extremely dangerous). The minute we start designing games solely based on what "the Internet" says we should do, start worrying. Not always doing what people expect is good - most of the time, people want more of the same because they don't really know what they want. That's how the matchmaking system came about - and despite what some of you think, that system is responsible for keeping Halo 2 at the top of the Xbox Live charts for so long.



That's odd. I thought Matchmaking came about to match gamers up with other gamers of equivalent skill level. Now it also exists because people don't know what they want, and you are gracious enough to spoonfeed it to us. I see. I find your attitude egotistical and patronizing. It's always been your problem Tom. Take a page out of NoF's book. He listens. He converses. You preach. You talk at us, not with us. And you presume too much because you're probably burning out. And I don't blame you, you deal with children all day, because you designed a game for children. How ironic.

Kids don't know what they want most of the time, so you are correct with regard to children. Why? Because most experiences are new to them. Kids don't really know themselves...they are in the process of getting to know themselves. But kids aren't supposed to be playing your game. It's quite violent.

You presume too much about people knowing what they like. I've been walking around this planet long enough to know what I like and dislike. But thanks for your generalized opinion. It was fascinating.

Okay, well, let's just be stupid and criticize the way the the owner of these forums posts...

  • 06.14.2006 1:13 PM PDT

Those without swords can still die upon them.

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: Spartan2010

This man is a genius. The pro-MLG people make me sick to my stomach, with all of their little BXR and BXB and RXR and whatever-X-whatevers.

I think that the pros have way too much of an influence over the gaming community, because they think that because they are so much better than us because they are divorced, they work at the local Mickey D's, and they sit on their couches all day long playing this game, doesn't mean that they can dictate what is "fair" in their eyes, because "fair" to them is a completely balanced map, no radars, no duel-wields, and nothing but Battle Rifles. I think those of us who play this for fun and actually have LIVES think fair is different.

Nuff said.


You shouldnt post about things which you obviously know nothing about. And NO, I am not associated with MLG, I dont even play Halo 2 anymore.

The problem is not that they have too much influence over the community, its that they have too little.


How do you figure that one? Video games are made to be fun for the common people, not to cater to the wishes of "professionals."

  • 06.14.2006 1:15 PM PDT