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  • Subject: How did Reach "Break Halo canon?"
Subject: How did Reach "Break Halo canon?"
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How? I want reasons people.

  • 07.16.2012 1:42 PM PDT

because i got cR banned.

  • 07.16.2012 1:43 PM PDT
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Oh Yes!

The reasons can be found in The Fall of Reach, the original print.

[Edited on 07.16.2012 2:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2012 2:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: snip3r dud33
Honestly, this is a good cover up for all the idiots who won't know its a cover up .

It didn't. Official game holds preference over third-party book licensed by Microsoft.

  • 07.16.2012 2:12 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: NinStarRune
It didn't. Official game holds preference over third-party book licensed by Microsoft.


Unfortunately this (lolwut "preference?").

Fall of Reach has a far better story. Apparently Eric Nylund had a hand in writing Reach's (the game) story. Why he'd help detract from his original (and far superior) story is beyond me.

I like to pretend Reach's campaign doesn't exist.

  • 07.16.2012 2:16 PM PDT
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Unfortunately, most of it is now canon.

But it is a fact that Reach broke immersion.

Noble Team have exhibited high level of incompetence:

-Kat: bad driver

-Emile: shotgun sniping, useless throughout the campaign even when operating the Onager. Can't make a simple jump across a broken bridge when piloting the Mongoose. Only manages to take down 2 Zealots...

-Carter: bad rifleman, unable to hold a Scarab's attention like Miranda Keyes

-Jun: on Nightfall, he snipes as soon as you fire your gun, he snipes even if you don't fire your gun. Kills stealth, steals kills, betrays you. Apparently talks a lot (I wouldn't know since I don't play games with audio except on special occasions).

-Jorge: doesn't lay down heavy or covering fire, poor accuracy, most developed character but gets killed early. Often gets in your line of fire


Every Noble Team member was the opposite of what they should have been (except for Kat, as we've seen by the TotS opening cutscene and other cutscenes, where she does nearly all the work).

Emile should have been cqc extraordinaire instead of those rare moments where he kills the high ranking Elite because you pissed the Elite off.

Carter should have been using his gun from long range and helping you out. His presence should have boosted trooper morale. He's supposed to be a leader? Far from it.

Jun should have been stealthy. Enough said.

Jorge should have been an AI version of Master Chief. Good rof, good accuracy, longest lasting character in-game and in the story. He's a freaking Spartan II for Christ's sake!


All because of difficulty emphasis... One way that might have worked is to throw in a new, story centered difficulty. It'd improve the AI vastly (that includes Covies) while keeping the game playable (none of the cheap bs seen on Legendary, damage and health would be about Normal, Noble Team would be killable, no punishing the player for killing civilians, enemies would have exclusive abilities, such as Drones picking up enemies and dropping them from heights and Zealots being able to jump whenever they want).

[Edited on 07.16.2012 6:54 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2012 6:51 PM PDT
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The 343 forums suck. They're full of retarded kids and mods who got butthurt in the B.net forums for being told that they're bad.


Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: NinStarRune
It didn't. Official game holds preference over third-party book licensed by Microsoft.


Unfortunately this (lolwut "preference?").

Fall of Reach has a far better story. Apparently Eric Nylund had a hand in writing Reach's (the game) story. Why he'd help detract from his original (and far superior) story is beyond me.

I like to pretend Reach's campaign doesn't exist.


Truth, unfortunately. The game broke the old canon immensely, but since it's "official" it's the real thing.

However, the book's first iteration was a FAR better story and there was no need to replace it with a storyline that really doesn't make sense. So I, like Ruckus and many others, pretend that the game's story mode was a pointless addition (like a campaign to a CoD game) and continue using the better story.

  • 07.16.2012 6:56 PM PDT

Still better than you.

.....most of you, at least.

Because there was very old, pre-existing Halo canon, relating to the Battle of Reach.

Halo: Reach took that canon, shat down its throat, then wiped it's arse with it. Completely wrecked everything.

Admittedly, Dr. Halsey's Journal (which came with the Limited/Legendary editions) did smooth things over a bit, but we still have the problem that Reach is completely different to the way we were originally told.

  • 07.16.2012 6:58 PM PDT

Because some of the Reach storyline conflicts with Fall of Reach. eg. where/how did a supercarrier get through Reach's atmosphere, where were all the MAC platforms defending Reach, etc etc. Sadly though, game canon will always take over other sources of canon.

  • 07.16.2012 7:02 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.

The main thing that doesn't make much sense to me is: how did pressing a button on the Corvette move you to the Super Carrier if you clipped all of its engines like 10 minutes beforehand? Secondary thrusters or something?

  • 07.16.2012 7:08 PM PDT

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Posted by: snip3r dud33
Honestly, this is a good cover up for all the idiots who won't know its a cover up .


Posted by: Mikelp_1
The main thing that doesn't make much sense to me is: how did pressing a button on the Corvette move you to the Super Carrier if you clipped all of its engines like 10 minutes beforehand? Secondary thrusters or something?


Didn't disable the engines, just tore them up. It was just to slow it down to buy time.

  • 07.16.2012 7:33 PM PDT

Posted by: General Dripik
When I play to win I voice message people call outs.

Halsey didn't know about the Spartan IIIs till Ghosts of Onyx but she talked to Noble Team throughout the campaign.

  • 07.16.2012 7:36 PM PDT

The only piece of canon I see ''broken'' is that the Pillar of Autumn was never on Reach in the book. But that is a minor change really and, I think, adds more depth to the story when you think about Keyes being on Reach and fleeing the battle for the sake of a greater good (the information Cortana was given). Bungie changed that from the 2000-2001 book (I read somewhere the book was finished before Halo: CE was even complete... I can't confirm that though).

Edit: ^^^ She found out about them on Reach. Why don't you think she found out about them THEN met the Spartan III's and decide to use them in her plan to get the Cortana fragment off-world?

[Edited on 07.16.2012 7:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2012 7:40 PM PDT

Half of what I say is true. The other half are also lies.


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Just a ton of things. But really it is more due to the fact that the game was so boring that you would pay attention to such things as canon while playing it.

  • 07.16.2012 7:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


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because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: burritosenior
The only piece of canon I see ''broken'' is that the Pillar of Autumn was never on Reach in the book. But that is a minor change really and, I think, adds more depth to the story when you think about Keyes being on Reach and fleeing the battle for the sake of a greater good (the information Cortana was given). Bungie changed that from the 2000-2001 book (I read somewhere the book was finished before Halo: CE was even complete... I can't confirm that though).

Edit: ^^^ She found out about them on Reach. Why don't you think she found out about them THEN met the Spartan III's and decide to use them in her plan to get the Cortana fragment off-world?


You seem to forget how Cortana in books already knew MC once he was awaken while during H:reach, it seems she has never even met anyone.

  • 07.16.2012 7:55 PM PDT

I <3 Halo:Reach - amazingly fun and best campaign + amazing Soundtrack
I <3 Halo 3:ODST - best soundtrack + Firefight + Coastal Highway and Mombassa Streets, amazingly unique campaign.
I <3 Halo 3 - best multiplayer levels + Forge + best Custom Games + soundtrack
I <3 Halo 2 - amazing huge fun campaign + soundtrack + Fun multiplayer
I <3 Halo: CE - started it all

Here is what I like to do:

I implant both in my mind as canon. Noble team still existed, but they did all there missions in one day like the book.

There you go canon plays out well now.

and in Halo 2, it shows the PoA escaping Reach, and that goes along with the ending of Reach where the Pillar of Autumn leaves with Masterchief and Cortana. I will always believe though, Game canon comes before book canon.


[Edited on 07.16.2012 8:03 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2012 8:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Kira Onime
You seem to forget how Cortana in books already knew MC once he was awaken while during H:reach, it seems she has never even met anyone.
In Halo: Reach all you ever interact with is a small fragment of Cortana she left behind with Halsey to obtain the data she was working on. Your mission in the end of Halo: Reach is to deliver that fragment back to the 'main body' of Cortana to, hopefully, save humanity by leading her to a Forerunner artifact of some kind... which we now know was Halo. While most of the story in Halo: Reach did seem a little... unimportant too often, the ending two missions actually holds a LOT of significance for the Halo Universe. And other than the change in the Autumn, it also seems to make sense.

[Edited on 07.16.2012 8:16 PM PDT]

  • 07.16.2012 8:15 PM PDT

your opinion matters, no matter how wrong it may be.

because spartan 3s didn't have shields?

  • 07.16.2012 10:17 PM PDT


Posted by: Arm0r l0ck pr0
because spartan 3s didn't have shields?
Regular Spartan III's used SPI Armor because it was cheaper and meant for Infiltration rather than regular missions such as the Chief went on. The Spartan III program was designed to send the people into suicide situations, so they needed to be cheaper as they were expendable.

The Spartans III's on Noble Team survived their missions- presumably the only ones aside from... I think Tom and Lucy were the names, though it has been a while. Thus they were no longer deemed expendable and were formed into a team to go on regular missions rather than ones that faced certain death. As they were no longer expendable in such a way as the rest of the Spartan III's were, they were issued Mjolnir.


So... no, not a canon breach.

  • 07.16.2012 10:40 PM PDT
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The 343 forums suck. They're full of retarded kids and mods who got butthurt in the B.net forums for being told that they're bad.

Tom and Lucy were part of the first group of Spartan IIIs, and they are still in their late teens when the events of Reach and up to and after Halo 3.

Carter is 32, roughly ten years younger than the Chief himself.

Kat is part of the same unit as Lucy, as both use the B-XXX for their callsign, and is 22 years old. Yet she is part of the same unit and was used in many of the same missions as Carter, who is ten years older than she is. Why?

Also, where is the 500-ship fleet that is supposed to be around Reach at all times? As well as the massive Super-MAC orbital platforms? And why did they have to change the date? That last point is just so unnecessary that I don't see the point of even bothering with that in order to make everything else work.

Also, where the hell were the Spartan IIs? They were vital to the defense of Reach in the book, so why are they not even mentioned in the game?

There are just so many things that had to be changed, and so much of them were not needed.

  • 07.16.2012 11:02 PM PDT
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Looking at everyone's reasons there doesn't seem to be THAT many contradictions...can't it be assumed all the things you mentioned happened off screen?

  • 07.17.2012 6:52 AM PDT

Posted by: B Rye
Carter is 32, roughly ten years younger than the Chief himself.
Oh yeah I forgot about that one. That's an issue in the canon I suppose, but not the game itself. Still, I don't get why Bungie didn't just change the date to have it be consistent.
>.<

Also, where is the 500-ship fleet that is supposed to be around Reach at all times? As well as the massive Super-MAC orbital platforms?
The fleet was around Reach in canon, yes. But I never thought of it as literally right around the planet. They didn't want to group the ships together so didn't it mean they were spread across the system? So since the Covenant can do pinpoint slipspace jumps they snuck right in, and I'd assume then the call was put out to get all the ships to a central location.

As for the MACs, the first few ships weren't even detected as the were infiltrator units. As for why the Corvette wasn't destroyed by any, I can only think of two options myself. Either they were smart and were behind a UNSC unit (they were all pretty darned close to each other, especially considering space combat is usually waged across many kilometers) forcing the UNSC to hold their fire, or perhaps they were just not in range. Wasn't the MACs' big weakness how ships could get close to them and couldn't be destroyed? That's why they had ships protecting the MACs- to prevent the Covenant from just closing in on them. I think. And considering you're barely above the atmosphere of Reach, that is DEFINITELY too close and past their range I think.

And why did they have to change the date? That last point is just so unnecessary that I don't see the point of even bothering with that in order to make everything else work.... Yeah. I don't get the dates stuff either. I don't see the point of changing all that.

Also, where the hell were the Spartan IIs? They were vital to the defense of Reach in the book, so why are they not even mentioned in the game?The story wasn't about Spartan II's so they weren't mentioned.. Just like how the story wasn't about the MAC cannons or Sgt. Johnson and they weren't even mentioned. That aside, they weren't all that relevant to our story. This was about Noble Team. And this is not the book's story. I see absolutely no reason to mention them whatsoever, and might have even thought it silly if they had just plugged that in there.

  • 07.17.2012 7:22 AM PDT

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Posted by: burritosenior
This was about Noble Team. And this is not the book's story. I see absolutely no reason to mention them whatsoever, and might have even thought it silly if they had just plugged that in there.

Whilst I agree with you on this I have to say that it would've been nice to know that the other Spartans were there on Reach, doing their bit to try and hold back the Covenant.
Maybe we could've heard some radio chatter throughout the campaign or trigger a mini-cutscene on Legendary on a certain mission where you can see Six turning to look at Spartan II's fighting the Covenant in the background; Exodus maybe?

  • 07.17.2012 7:33 AM PDT