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  • Subject: Community picking a Forum Ninja?
Subject: Community picking a Forum Ninja?

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Verachi

Posted by: spartain ken 15
That is the real issue, I guarantee you that no one is cheating . It is all just people who can;t stand others and the thoughts of others winning something.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I can't prove that anyone was cheating, so I can't claim anyone was cheating. In the real world, you can;t claim people did something then have no evidence to back it up. It is like the witch trials of Salem.

I want my money back. Deej Has reffered multiple times that people were cheating through volting with their Alts. Cheating did happen stop trying to ignore it.

[quote]Posted by: spartain ken 15

Lets not try and make this about specific users.

My point (which you completely missed yet ironically showed) is that some users despise other users. It is pretty bad at the site and is one of the biggest issues in the community.

What happens is that if a certain user is winning something another group hates, then the other group tried to claim that user cheated and that the contest is fixed. In reality though, neither side probably did not cheat and it is just fueled by hate.

Because of the hatred and inability of the community to deal with others, we couldn't do this. Not because of cheating, but became of how immature many people are on here. I enjoy my time here on Bungie.net but the amount of hate our "community" displays to other users is appalling and honestly should be better enforced by mods who let it happen.

I think, as a community, we need to learn to keep this stuff off the forums, including private groups. This drama is seriously getting old and it is only going to get worse.


I am not trying to talk about cheating, I am trying to go to the root issue, the community. And you have to know, there are many underlying problems here in the community. Heck, you have been here years longer than I have, you must know about it very well.

It is disturbing how users hate other users so much and what they do because of that. I have seen memes of users appear on the forums and derogatory posts appear often. It is pretty bad sometimes.

But my other point is that you also can't accuse people of things if you have no proof. People here are quick to jump the gun on stuff.

But I am not trying to cause an argument, I am just saying how I feel being on this site for 3 years. I like Bungie.net and most people here are nice but some people here need to just learn to keep the flaming and drama out of the forums.

[Edited on 07.22.2012 9:22 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2012 9:16 AM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
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Step 1: Make it so there are requirements for voting in certain polls, such as a linked gamertag, prefixes in your title, certain post count in the public forums, and your account must be a certain age.

...

Holy -blam!-, I just destroyed most, if not all possible corruption in the polls with a single step!

[Edited on 07.22.2012 9:30 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2012 9:25 AM PDT

Owning Noobs Since 05

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Posted by: spartain ken 15
I am not trying to talk about cheating, I am trying to go to the root issue, the community. And you have to know, there are many underlying problems here in the community. Heck, you have been here years longer than I have, you must know about it very well.


To me the root of the issue is cheating. We are obviously not on the same page. On halo 2 and 3 forums cheaters were cruxified by the community. This community isn't fond of cheaters. I didn't mention cheating to derail this thread and start talking about what problems this community has. This thread is not about the community and what problems it may have.

My opnion on this voting for a mod is, I think its a bad idea because I feel that people would cheat. and that's my 0.83 cents.

  • 07.22.2012 9:26 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: King Dutchy
Step 1: Make it so there are requirements for voting in certain polls, such as a linked gamertag, prefixes in your title, and your account must be a certain age.

...

Holy -blam!-, I just destroyed most, if not all possible corruption in the polls with a single step!


If you do prefixes then it could favor a certain group of members or people who just got off being banned or inactive, alts are immune to age (people could have alts that are years old), and linked gamertags is meh because some people have issues linking their tag or chose not to have their accounts linked to it.

The problem is not cheating, the problem is the communities want to call out people for cheating regardless of proof rather because they A don't like that person, B are trolling, or C want someone else to win and cause as much chaos as possible.

  • 07.22.2012 9:28 AM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
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Posted by: spartain ken 15I added another requirement, just for you. :)

  • 07.22.2012 9:32 AM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
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Posted by: spartain ken 15
I think people will get mad at any method used if certain users win or compete in something. The point I was making is that some users despise other users so much that them winning something is grounds to say they or cheated or they get so mad they try and get them kicked out of it.
I think you might be a little bit misguided on this point.

People don't get mad when someone wins, people get mad when someone wins unfairly from illegitimate means. You can argue till the cows come home over who cheated and who didn't cheat, but the fact still remains, the poll wasn't legitimate.

Have you noticed that no one has posted "I don't want X,Y, and Z to be mod."? No is out to get you or anyone else, Ken.

Also, the mods aren't here to interpret what you said and what you meant. They are here to keep the forums at a respectable standard.

:-)

  • 07.22.2012 9:35 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I think people will get mad at any method used if certain users win or compete in something. The point I was making is that some users despise other users so much that them winning something is grounds to say they or cheated or they get so mad they try and get them kicked out of it.
I think you might be a little bit misguided on this point.

People don't get mad when someone wins, people get mad when someone wins unfairly from illegitimate means. You can argue till the cows come home over who cheated and who didn't cheat, but the fact still remains, the poll wasn't legitimate.

Have you noticed that no one has posted "I don't want X,Y, and Z to be mod."? No is out to get you or anyone else, Ken.

Also, the mods aren't here to interpret what you said and what you meant. They are here to keep the forums at a respectable standard.

:-)


Look, no one can prove there was any cheating. I think people here are quick to jump the gun on stuff if they don't agree with it or don't like the outcome.

I think we create a lot of issues that are really non-existent.

I doubt there would be much cheating but because of conflicting views, people would claim there is cheating going on.

I think the only voting for mods should be HFCS themselves voting for mods.

I think it would be cool for us to elect people to maintain the site but there is just too much drama and immaturity for it to work right now. But maybe one day it can work as people learn to accept/tolerate others better. It is a stretch but a community can change a lot over time.

[Edited on 07.22.2012 9:43 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2012 9:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kalriq
This thread went from funny to stupid really fast.

Community, stop baiting Ken.
Ken, stop biting, then chewing your way up the line before trying to eat the fishermen.
Yes, you can use the historic fiction contest as basis for an argument about this thread, and the use of alts. But we don't need to chase our tails and kick up dirt on eachother directly related to those events. Do we children?

  • 07.22.2012 9:42 AM PDT

This is a bad idea. Always is, always will be. Previous discussions of this really boiled down to:

1. It's just going to turn into a giant popularity contest.
2. We don't need more mods. We have enough active mods at the moment.
3. We don't need more mods.

  • 07.22.2012 9:44 AM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)


Posted by: Navweb3620
This is a bad idea. Always is, always will be. Previous discussions of this really boiled down to:

1. It's just going to turn into a giant popularity contest.
2. We don't need more mods. We have enough active mods at the moment.
3. We don't need more mods.
We obviously don't have enough if political, religious, and erotic threads turn into hot topics.

  • 07.22.2012 9:56 AM PDT

"Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under 't."
-Macbeth (Act I, Scene V).

You'd also start a large group war.

  • 07.22.2012 10:07 AM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Look, no one can prove there wasn't any cheating.
So you really don't believe there was any cheating going on in that vote?

I know I can't prove there was any cheating going on aside from how quick the votes were coming in and the pictures of people mentioning alts (and the alts posting in the thread). But I'm sure the webteam could probably show you a list of users who voted for you and Plain Ben, when they (the voters) joined the site, and how active those accounts are. That debacle was just for a shirt. Now imagine if it was for a position of responsibility. We definitely shouldn't be allowed the final word in a decision like choosing the next batch of ninjas, but there's nothing wrong with us giving our opinions on who's been selected.

:-)

  • 07.22.2012 10:11 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: spartain ken 15
Look, no one can prove there wasn't any cheating.
So you really don't believe there was any cheating going on in that vote?

I know I can't prove there was any cheating going on aside from how quick the votes were coming in and the pictures of people mentioning alts (and the alts posting in the thread). But I'm sure the webteam could probably show you a list of users who voted for you and Plain Ben, when they (the voters) joined the site, and how active those accounts are. That debacle was just for a shirt. Now imagine if it was for a position of responsibility. We definitely shouldn't be allowed the final word in a decision like choosing the next batch of ninjas, but there's nothing wrong with us giving our opinions on who's been selected.

:-)


Okay, then I would like to see proof, so far I haven't seen any. How is it fair for anyone to claim someone was cheating with no evidence what so ever. I can't say Ben was cheating, that is a baseless claim.

The truth is people will claim users cheat regardless of truth if they want another to win.

  • 07.22.2012 10:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: spartain ken 15
Look, no one can prove there wasn't any cheating.
So you really don't believe there was any cheating going on in that vote?

I know I can't prove there was any cheating going on aside from how quick the votes were coming in and the pictures of people mentioning alts (and the alts posting in the thread). But I'm sure the webteam could probably show you a list of users who voted for you and Plain Ben, when they (the voters) joined the site, and how active those accounts are. That debacle was just for a shirt. Now imagine if it was for a position of responsibility. We definitely shouldn't be allowed the final word in a decision like choosing the next batch of ninjas, but there's nothing wrong with us giving our opinions on who's been selected.

:-)


Okay, then I would like to see proof, so far I haven't seen any. How is it fair for anyone to claim someone was cheating with no evidence what so ever. I can't say Ben was cheating, that is a baseless claim.

The truth is people will claim users cheat regardless of truth if they want another to win.


What proof do you have that people weren't cheating? It's awfully convienient to say that there wasn't cheating when you know the people that claim it happened can't actually prove it.

  • 07.22.2012 10:18 AM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)


Posted by: chubbz

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: spartain ken 15
Look, no one can prove there wasn't any cheating.
So you really don't believe there was any cheating going on in that vote?

I know I can't prove there was any cheating going on aside from how quick the votes were coming in and the pictures of people mentioning alts (and the alts posting in the thread). But I'm sure the webteam could probably show you a list of users who voted for you and Plain Ben, when they (the voters) joined the site, and how active those accounts are. That debacle was just for a shirt. Now imagine if it was for a position of responsibility. We definitely shouldn't be allowed the final word in a decision like choosing the next batch of ninjas, but there's nothing wrong with us giving our opinions on who's been selected.

:-)


Okay, then I would like to see proof, so far I haven't seen any. How is it fair for anyone to claim someone was cheating with no evidence what so ever. I can't say Ben was cheating, that is a baseless claim.

The truth is people will claim users cheat regardless of truth if they want another to win.


What proof do you have that people weren't cheating? It's awfully convienient to say that there wasn't cheating when you know the people that claim it happened can't actually prove it.
Don't use that logic, the burden of proof lies on the person who made the claim.

  • 07.22.2012 10:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.


Posted by: King Dutchy

Posted by: chubbz

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: spartain ken 15
Look, no one can prove there wasn't any cheating.
So you really don't believe there was any cheating going on in that vote?

I know I can't prove there was any cheating going on aside from how quick the votes were coming in and the pictures of people mentioning alts (and the alts posting in the thread). But I'm sure the webteam could probably show you a list of users who voted for you and Plain Ben, when they (the voters) joined the site, and how active those accounts are. That debacle was just for a shirt. Now imagine if it was for a position of responsibility. We definitely shouldn't be allowed the final word in a decision like choosing the next batch of ninjas, but there's nothing wrong with us giving our opinions on who's been selected.

:-)


Okay, then I would like to see proof, so far I haven't seen any. How is it fair for anyone to claim someone was cheating with no evidence what so ever. I can't say Ben was cheating, that is a baseless claim.

The truth is people will claim users cheat regardless of truth if they want another to win.


What proof do you have that people weren't cheating? It's awfully convienient to say that there wasn't cheating when you know the people that claim it happened can't actually prove it.
Don't use that logic, the burden of proof lies on the person who made the claim.


Okay, my point still stands. Ken says there wasn't cheating, he's making that claim, now he needs to prove it.

  • 07.22.2012 10:22 AM PDT

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Only an overlord can truly detect shenanigans in polls.

  • 07.22.2012 10:25 AM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

Solomon has closed that case, but the precedent has been set: we cannot trust the poll system on Bungie.net to hold "important" votes.

  • 07.22.2012 10:27 AM PDT

Please stop complaining about the 'death of a loved one' it's my job. They probably deserved it anyways. Here's a warning, if you keep making pentagrams out of the neighbors livestock I will personally come to your house and kill everyone you love. Now leave me alone, I got to get back to work.
~M.D~

Only the popular kids would win :'(
I'm so glad the webteam chooses.
Hopefully they don't swoon over that demon's stache twirling...

  • 07.22.2012 10:30 AM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Okay, then I would like to see proof, so far I haven't seen any. How is it fair for anyone to claim someone was cheating with no evidence what so ever. I can't say Ben was cheating, that is a baseless claim.

The truth is people will claim users cheat regardless of truth if they want another to win.
I haven't claimed anyone is cheating. I'm just stating my opinion, which is that it wasn't entirely legitimate. I don't know if this image is real or shopped, but it would suggest that cheating was taking place. (I apologize that it's you in the image, I just didn't want to go through every page in the thread)

Anyway, you're missing the point. Do you understand why, using this thread as an example, letting the community make a final decision is a bad idea?

  • 07.22.2012 10:32 AM PDT
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Ok, we've presented Ken with incriminating evidence, can we stop these shenanigans now?

  • 07.22.2012 10:36 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: chubbz

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: spartain ken 15
Hold on lemme get my alts

/kidding

And that is why this would not work.

Oh, I see. You've decided in your head what is going to happen in the event that you actually went through with this based on some sort of image you have of the Bungie Community painted in your head ever since the t-shirt incident of a group of people who all take fun contests way too seriously and who all have access to an army of alts, and so you're scared of ever trying any sort of community-based voting system whether it be in the Mail Sacks or in this hypothetical Ninja election because of the fact that you're scared of looking bad as a Community Manager in the event that something that isn't your fault and happens as a result of one person's actions ever takes place again.

I see. Perfectly reasonable. I also like how you've pulled out a Deadliest Warrior-esque computer program to run simulations of this Ninjelection which has never happened before to come to such a concrete, obvious, and infallible solution. I'll be PMing you later about that program. I'm in debt to this guy, and I wanna see if that thing can pick the Lotto numbers.


Man, usually it helps to pause a moment and think about something before you post it.

What DeeJ is talking about is the Community's affinity for alts, and how quick they are to want to send them into action for any situation where they could be used, Ken awful picture fiasco as an example. Not to mention, the first person to mention 'getting his alts' is the one who insisted up and down he never used any, and was unaware that any were being used. If he could muster up hundreds of alts, who's to say that groups like FT aren't going to all out when it comes to picking a forum mod? This is far from an honest, reputable community. DeeJ has every right to say what he did.
Thats highly presumptuous to say that people would use alts, and even if they did, that is why I'm in favor of Daz's idea of nominations done anonymously, with a limit on the nominations made per person. That way it doesn't matter if someone uses alts because once someone's nominated, they're nominated.

Even still, my post was mainly about DeeJ's apparent and irrational fear of letting us vote for stuff recently. So someone did something stupid once and he community reacted in kind. Big deal; move on.

  • 07.22.2012 10:38 AM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
...my post was mainly about DeeJ's apparent and irrational fear of letting us vote for stuff recently. So someone did something stupid once and he community reacted in kind. Big deal; move on.
The Dude abides

DeeJ is operating on behalf of Bungie, so is it really irrational to avoid something that previously caused such conflict in the community?

I liked being able to vote on the art contests, and I loved seeing the creativity that can be summoned by a simple post, but -blam!- happened and now we have to live with that -blam!-. Perhaps we'll be given a second chance, or maybe another method of voting will be created (or the current method remedied), but until then what can we do?

[Edited on 07.22.2012 10:49 AM PDT]

  • 07.22.2012 10:47 AM PDT

I'd tell Ken to try harder, but it looks like enough of you already fell for it.

Anyways, this post is a test to see if I have golden text and a spinning mustache bomb avatar yet. Yep.

  • 07.22.2012 10:51 AM PDT