Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Didact, Bornstellar, Humanity And Reclamation
  • Subject: Didact, Bornstellar, Humanity And Reclamation
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Didact, Bornstellar, Humanity And Reclamation

So I think most of us have pretty much figured out at this point that Didact is an enemy in Halo 4, but is he the main enemy? Why is he an enemy in the first place? Is it the original Didact or Bornstellar? If Humans are meant to be the Reclaimers of the Forerunner Empire why the hostility? And lastly, if the Forerunners hated Humans so much why give them what's left of the empire to begin with?! I have a theory.

From Cryptum we know that although not the same species Humans and Forerunner are related somehow through the Precursors. They look nearly identical in their non-mutated forms, share a considerable amount of DNA and both species were created/elevated by the Precursors and tested with the Flood to see which race was worthy of inheriting the Mantle. We know now that the Precursors saw the Forerunners as a failed experiment and were planning on wiping them out, but the Forerunner got wind of it and destroyed them first. Then while battling the flood Humanity in an act of desperation start invading Forerunner space driving both races into a brutal war. Claiming to be the true inheritors of the Mantle, Humanity drives the Forerunner leadership into a rage causing the near extinction and de-evolution of the Human race.

In the aftermath of the Human-Forerunner war the Flood is re-released upon the galaxy; over-running every Forerunner defense. Seeing no other way to rid the galaxy of this terrible menace the Halo Arrays, Arks and Shield Worlds are created to wipe out the flood and save life in the galaxy. Of course things don't go according to plan and the Forerunners are driven to exticntion(as far as we know). In an act of what might be redemption or as a gesture to a sibling species that was unfairly judged and punished the Forerunners decide to make Humanity the inheritors of everything they left behind.
Or is there more to it than simply passing a torch for the guardianship of the galaxy?

Could the role of Recalimation have more to it than simply inheriting the Forerunner's role in the galaxy? Could it be possible that the Forerunner's who decided to give Humans the Mantle did for more than pure guilt and that some of the Forerunners who survived the firing of the arrays never liked the idea, hence "Evil Didact". It's alluded to early in Cryptum like in the Halo-3 terminals the Forerunners aren't 100% sure of their origin and Humans were a bit of a surprise when they showed up. Now this idea sort of circles back to Forerunners=Humans, just not directly. Could the Forerunners have evolved on Earth initially and transplanted on another planet as a part of an experiment by the Precursor? Unsatisfied with their initial experiment the Precursor went back to the source material for creating another race worthy of the Mantle?

From reading Cryptum and the Terminals it doesn't seem like Born would be the "Evil Didact". He shows a big respect and kin-ship towards Humans, while the original Didact having lost his children to the Human-Forerunner War has a deep hatred towards them, despite admitting he went overboard when punishing Humanity in their defeat. Now if the original Didact did indeed survive everything in Cryptum he would have eventually found out that most of the Forerunners where vaporized by the arrays, his wife thinking him dead took Bornstellar as her new husband and later died ensuring Humanity would make it to the Ark. Add to this the fact that his old enemies have inherited what used to be his empire, I can understand why he'd be just a little upset.

Any thoughts, ideas or criticisms are appreciated.

  • 07.21.2012 3:46 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The original Didact doesn't make sense to be an enemy regardless.

I don't think anybody has gotten close to understanding what a reclaimer is with conventional thinking. In the ODST comics the knowing told the ODSTs they could reclaim the facility only after establishing the humans primacy.


So we clearly have no clue what this means.

  • 07.21.2012 4:18 PM PDT

I'm basically guessing with the information we've been given so far. I'm more than likely completely wrong, but it's fun to speculate. But back to the reclaiming business; if Humans and Forerunners were in fact related through a common ancestor could they have been similar enough to interbreed? If that is the case, once the rings were fired and the galaxy re-seeded it may have been possible some Forerunners saw Humanity as their second chance, choosing to stay on Earth and inter-bread with them. That would make Halo's current form of Humanity part Forerunner and would make the whole Reclaimer title make a lot more sense. Plus it would make what Spark said at the end of Halo-3 still valid.

[Edited on 07.21.2012 4:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2012 4:30 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I am not getting on you for what you are speculating about just that it isn't abstract and out there. I might get all the references of "reclaimer" into on thread for a brainstorming exercise so we can be more creative.

  • 07.21.2012 4:33 PM PDT

Huh? No worries. I was hoping for counter theories and everyone's thoughts on the whole thing from the get go.

  • 07.21.2012 4:43 PM PDT

"We are the next generation of soldiers, an A.I built for war. We battle the darkness for humanity. We are the Caedus A.I"

I liked the simplicity of the Halo backstory before the Forerunner Trilogy came out. Those books still boggle my mind.

  • 07.21.2012 5:40 PM PDT

Dude, don't even get me started on that. The new books twist and turn so many things we thought we new from the original series it's hard to reconcile the two sometimes. I'm really trying to like the new canon so I can enjoy Halo 4, but the info from the Forerunner Trilogy isn't making it easy. Everything 343 has added to Halo story feels like it's from an alternate universe. o_o


[Edited on 07.21.2012 5:55 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2012 5:48 PM PDT

The series has gone from multi-layered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess; first the forerunners are human, then they're not, but sort of related. Forerunners discover Humanity right before the arrays fire, to knowing about them all along and even going to war with them. There were seven rings and an ark, now there are 12 rings, including super rings and a mega second Ark. We thought most of the spartan-2s had died in augmentation, now most of them are all alive due to a cover up. Halsey went from being a brilliant, cool, calm and collect scientist that had to make horrible horrible choices to counter a brutal civil war to the wicked witch of the west. Paragnosky, who was in GoO for two seconds was portrayed as a cold, but logical tactician is now vindictive lunatic no one questions. Then there is the UNSC infinity; and advanced Human ship that was in service through the end of the Human-Covenant War, equipped with all sorts of Forerunner tech when it was explained earlier in the series that the UNSC could barely reverse engineer Covy tech over the course of 25 years.

[Edited on 07.21.2012 6:15 PM PDT]

  • 07.21.2012 6:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multilayered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess.


It is in no way that complicated unless you are new to the lore and got caught in flux. 343 canon has been more consistent than bungies.

  • 07.21.2012 6:03 PM PDT

"We are the next generation of soldiers, an A.I built for war. We battle the darkness for humanity. We are the Caedus A.I"


Posted by: Old Salty27
Dude, don't even get me started on that. The new books twist and turn so many things we thought we new from the original series it's hard to reconcile the two sometimes. I'm really trying to like the new canon so I can enjoy Halo 4, but the info from the Forerunner Trilogy isn't making it easy. Everything 343 has added to Halo story feels like it's from an alternate universe. o_o


Thanks. I read the end of the Forerunner book 2 (I can't spell the title) and the only question I had was "WTF?". I understand that 343I want's to explore the Forerunners but some much does not make sense: No mention of the Forerunner-Flood War in Cryptum, and all we had was a teenage alien going through puberty.

Not a good way to write a book based on an action video game.

  • 07.21.2012 6:11 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multilayered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess.


It is in no way that complicated unless you are new to the lore and got caught in flux. 343 canon has been more consistent than bungies.


343's own canon is more consistent than Bungie's. I agree, but in relation to Bungie's canon there are a lot of re-writes and dis-connects. See the edited reply above for examples.

  • 07.21.2012 6:19 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multilayered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess.


It is in no way that complicated unless you are new to the lore and got caught in flux. 343 canon has been more consistent than bungies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  • 07.22.2012 12:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multilayered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess.


It is in no way that complicated unless you are new to the lore and got caught in flux. 343 canon has been more consistent than bungies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c


It is my "opinion" that it is in no way that complicated?

That isn't true at all as you guys are just over complicating the information we have. I agree that it can be complicated and won't contest that it just isn't as much as you guys are making it out to be.

  • 07.22.2012 2:09 PM PDT

I think some of us a re a just a little annoyed that instead of using the Terminals and Halo-3 ending as a direct jumping off point for the Forerunner novels, 343 decided to re-write and re-canon so much. I get the feeling had Bungie continued the series the Forerunners would have been somewhat villainous, but not in the same light they've been portrayed in the novels; arrogant space dicks.

Going by Halo-3 I was expecting the Chief to land on the Forerunner planet and wake up whatever Forerunners were in stasis waiting for reclamation. With the Human=Forerunner connection still valid I'd expect the newly awakened Forerunners not be very happy upon learning about the events of the Human-Covenant War and the reasoning behind it, so they'ed probably want to pummel the races of the Covenant into the stone age for nearly exterminating their descendants after saving their ancestors from the Flood. Add to that I'd imagine the Flood or Precursors show in some form and the galaxy ends up in total chaos with the Chief, Forerunners, UNSC, former Covies and whatever else fighting for dominance.

That would have been a much better starting off point to Halo-4 or whatever Bungie would have called it had they been the ones to continue the series.

  • 07.22.2012 3:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Old Salty27
I think some of us a re a just a little annoyed that instead of using the Terminals and Halo-3 ending as a direct jumping off point for the Forerunner novels, 343 decided to re-write and re-canon so much.


Um. WHAT? In all do respect if you seriously believe they aren't basing the novels around the terminals (and IRIS) then you seriously haven't read the terminals as well as you thought. There are slight changes being made but seeing as the terminals were "easter eggs" so to speak the fact they even go sot much attention and were integrated into canon was more than enough.

  • 07.22.2012 4:57 PM PDT

So......terminals less valid than thought? Damn. O_O

  • 07.22.2012 5:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

they are more valid than you are making them out to be.

  • 07.22.2012 8:03 PM PDT

This conversation is not as serious as you are making it out to be.

  • 07.22.2012 10:05 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
This conversation is not as serious as you are making it out to be.


Until you actually understand how i precive this conversation i wouldn't go around acting as if you know how i am speaking of something. You following me around in threads and trying to one up me is cute, lets see how long you can do it.

  • 07.23.2012 11:11 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

i'm the enemy? who the -blam!- are you, i'd be asking myself.. assuming i had been around that long..

  • 07.25.2012 2:36 AM PDT

I love you [b]

MMHHHMHHMHHHMHMHMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
I say It should be devourous the source of all flood who kills them all amd absorbs them.

[Edited on 07.25.2012 2:47 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2012 2:43 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
This conversation is not as serious as you are making it out to be.


Until you actually understand how i precive this conversation i wouldn't go around acting as if you know how i am speaking of something. You following me around in threads and trying to one up me is cute, lets see how long you can do it.


I'm... not.
Until you actually understand how I perceive this conversation I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions as to what I am actually doing, which is contributing to the discussion regardless of who's username pops up above the post, which I often times don't even pay any mind to at all. . .

  • 07.27.2012 9:15 AM PDT



First of all, great post. Definitely makes a change =)

I think Didact's relationship with the Librarian (plus, the happenings of Cryptum and to a lesser extent Primordium) mean that Didactic has too much history with humans to be the villain.

He owes them the chance to find his wife amongst other things, which is pretty huge. It's pretty much his main goal in life for a while after being released.

Factor in Born's relationship with Riser and Chakas and I think (even with his soul almost all gone) it just seems like there's too much compassion for humans there, even with the knowledge you mentioned.

Also a storyline like that requires knowledge of extended Canon for him to be the villain. Don't get me wrong, if there was a way to make it work I'd be for it, but I think that 343 will have a brand new character as the villain. Otherwise they risk alienating the vast majority of Halo 4 players.

I wouldn't be surprised if Born/Didact made an appearance though =)

  • 07.27.2012 9:48 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2