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This topic has moved here: Subject: Didact, Bornstellar, Humanity And Reclamation
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Subject: Didact, Bornstellar, Humanity And Reclamation


Posted by: walshypru


First of all, great post. Definitely makes a change =)

I think Didact's relationship with the Librarian (plus, the happenings of Cryptum and to a lesser extent Primordium) mean that Didactic has too much history with humans to be the villain.

He owes them the chance to find his wife amongst other things, which is pretty huge. It's pretty much his main goal in life for a while after being released.

Factor in Born's relationship with Riser and Chakas and I think (even with his soul almost all gone) it just seems like there's too much compassion for humans there, even with the knowledge you mentioned.

Also a storyline like that requires knowledge of extended Canon for him to be the villain. Don't get me wrong, if there was a way to make it work I'd be for it, but I think that 343 will have a brand new character as the villain. Otherwise they risk alienating the vast majority of Halo 4 players.

I wouldn't be surprised if Born/Didact made an appearance though =)


I agree. While the original Didact may not like humans, he probably doesnt hate them enough to wage another war on them based on the last of what we have seen of him.

It would be far more likely that the villian in Halo 4 would be akin to 343 GS in that it is a Forerunner AI of sorts that, given the fact that all the Forerunner installations that Master Chief has come into contact with (Installation 04, the Ark, Installation 04 again, etc.) has subsequently exploded, came to the conclusion that he is perhaps out to destroy Requiem and is merely defending the installation.

Not to mention the fact that, as stated by others, it would be more practical in a storytelling sense.

  • 07.27.2012 10:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
This conversation is not as serious as you are making it out to be.


Until you actually understand how i precive this conversation i wouldn't go around acting as if you know how i am speaking of something. You following me around in threads and trying to one up me is cute, lets see how long you can do it.


I'm... not.
Until you actually understand how I perceive this conversation I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions as to what I am actually doing, which is contributing to the discussion regardless of who's username pops up above the post, which I often times don't even pay any mind to at all. . .



There is no conclusion to jump to if you only posted in response to me telling me a was taking it too seriously when i wasn't. You don't sound anymore intelligent by using the same words as me if anything you look less as it does nothing but make you admit fault.

Maybe on waypoint what you said was "contributing to the discussion" but on here it isn't.

  • 07.28.2012 3:00 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
This conversation is not as serious as you are making it out to be.


Until you actually understand how i precive this conversation i wouldn't go around acting as if you know how i am speaking of something. You following me around in threads and trying to one up me is cute, lets see how long you can do it.


I'm... not.
Until you actually understand how I perceive this conversation I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions as to what I am actually doing, which is contributing to the discussion regardless of who's username pops up above the post, which I often times don't even pay any mind to at all. . .



There is no conclusion to jump to if you only posted in response to me telling me a was taking it too seriously when i wasn't. You don't sound anymore intelligent by using the same words as me if anything you look less as it does nothing but make you admit fault.


No... not really. And I ain't admitted to -blam!- quit grasping at straws and get back on topic, seeing as you were the one that de-railed it in the first place with this post.

Until you actually understand how i precive this conversation i wouldn't go around acting as if you know how i am speaking of something. You following me around in threads and trying to one up me is cute, lets see how long you can do it.

[Edited on 07.28.2012 3:10 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 3:08 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Old Salty27
I think some of us a re a just a little annoyed that instead of using the Terminals and Halo-3 ending as a direct jumping off point for the Forerunner novels, 343 decided to re-write and re-canon so much. I get the feeling had Bungie continued the series the Forerunners would have been somewhat villainous, but not in the same light they've been portrayed in the novels; arrogant space dicks.


The Halo 3 Terminals formed the basis for them being "arrogant space dicks", did you skim over everything the Librarian said?

"The Mantle. You still hold to that [fairy tale] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?

Can't you see? Belief in the Mantle sealed our doom! Weakened our [protectorates], bred dependence and sloth. Our [so-called Guardianship] has stripped those we would keep safe of any capacity for self-defense!

Were we such noble [Guardians] when we drew our line and abandoned billions to the parasite?"


I want to direct you to a key line:
"Our so-called Guardianship has stripped those we would keep safe of any capacity for self-defense!"

We have a perfect reflection of this action in the Forerunner Saga - their actions against the San'Shyuum and Ancient Humans. Janjur Qom was placed under quarantine, stripping them of their weapons and humanity were blasted back to the Stone Age - thus ridding them OF ANY CAPACITY FOR SELF-DEFENSE.

There are more lines like this in the Terminals, but that's an extremely prominent one which just seems to be ignored by people who say that the Forerunner were peaceful. They weren't. There is no clash, this was all buried down in detail in the Terminals and 343i were the ones who had the sense to dig deep down into the context it creates - which is extremely limited since there are a grand total of 3 Forerunners in the Halo 3 Terminals and they establish that their population numbered in the trillions.

Going by Halo-3 I was expecting the Chief to land on the Forerunner planet and wake up whatever Forerunners were in stasis waiting for reclamation. With the Human=Forerunner connection still valid I'd expect the newly awakened Forerunners not be very happy upon learning about the events of the Human-Covenant War and the reasoning behind it, so they'ed probably want to pummel the races of the Covenant into the stone age for nearly exterminating their descendants after saving their ancestors from the Flood. Add to that I'd imagine the Flood or Precursors show in some form and the galaxy ends up in total chaos with the Chief, Forerunners, UNSC, former Covies and whatever else fighting for dominance.

Replace the 'human = Forerunners' part with 'humans = Forerunner inheritors' and the exact scenario you just put out there is still a plausible possibility for the Reclaimer Trilogy. The Reclaimer trilogy is going to be about, as it says on the tin, humanity's inheritance and uncovering exactly what the word Reclaimer actually means. Couple that with what the Forerunner Saga has done and the exact scenario you've written there is extremely likely to happen. The major theme surrounding post-Halo 3 fiction is dominance and power struggles, and 343i have confirmed that they're going to be introducing a number of different factions with different motivations for establishing dominance.

[Edited on 07.28.2012 3:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 3:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

And what could you possibly do if i decide not to Predator?

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multilayered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess.


It is in no way that complicated unless you are new to the lore and got caught in flux. 343 canon has been more consistent than bungies.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c



That is what started the derailment of the thread not me replying to you saying i am making it more of a big deal than it is.

  • 07.28.2012 3:37 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
i am making it more of a big deal than it is.


I know...

>_>

  • 07.28.2012 10:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101
i am making it more of a big deal than it is.


I know...

>_>


So you were talking to me when you made that comment earlier when you tried making it seem like you weren't then, correct?

  • 07.28.2012 10:54 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: grey101
i am making it more of a big deal than it is.


I know...

>_>


So you were talking to me when you made that comment earlier when you tried making it seem like you weren't then, correct?


No, I was agreeing with you when you said that you were making it a bigger deal than it really was...

Lol...

  • 07.28.2012 10:56 PM PDT

Formerly darkbrute (no I was not perma-banned.)

Posted by: Bradllez
Members here dont get banned.

They just go missing in action.

I haven't finished the second book in the Forerunner Saga and I don't feel like reading your wall of text. I thought the Primordial was the ancient evil.

[Edited on 07.28.2012 11:06 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 11:05 PM PDT


Posted by: diggnURgrave
I haven't finished the second book in the Forerunner Saga and I don't feel like reading your wall of text. I thought the Primordial was the ancient evil.


It would've made more sense but nooooooooooo...

343 had to go an be a bunch of fuctards

  • 07.29.2012 12:35 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Posted by: diggnURgrave
I haven't finished the second book in the Forerunner Saga and I don't feel like reading your wall of text. I thought the Primordial was the ancient evil.


It would've made more sense but nooooooooooo...

343 had to go an be a bunch of fuctards


Except we don't know who or what the Ancient Evil is yet... -_-

  • 07.29.2012 5:26 AM PDT

Haters are going to hate.
Praisers are going to praise.

The Bungie Forums are what keeps my mind sharp and my fingers active, between writing my own movie scripts, drawing, and studying industrial design. At the moment I'm working on miniatures for a short movie that I'll hopefully be able to film once I've saved up for a camera... That's me, with the mug, trying to have a conversation with Konoko.


Posted by: Old Salty27
The series has gone from multi-layered, but relatively easy to understand to an overly complicated mess; first the forerunners are human, then they're not, but sort of related. Forerunners discover Humanity right before the arrays fire, to knowing about them all along and even going to war with them. There were seven rings and an ark, now there are 12 rings, including super rings and a mega second Ark. We thought most of the spartan-2s had died in augmentation, now most of them are all alive due to a cover up. Halsey went from being a brilliant, cool, calm and collect scientist that had to make horrible horrible choices to counter a brutal civil war to the wicked witch of the west. Paragnosky, who was in GoO for two seconds was portrayed as a cold, but logical tactician is now vindictive lunatic no one questions. Then there is the UNSC infinity; and advanced Human ship that was in service through the end of the Human-Covenant War, equipped with all sorts of Forerunner tech when it was explained earlier in the series that the UNSC could barely reverse engineer Covy tech over the course of 25 years.
One of the best compilations of differences between Bungie Halo and 343i Halo, I've seen in a while. Glad to see that there are more who don't desperately try to find redeeming similarities between the two, even though there are twice as many obvious differences, opposed to the deep thematic sentences, which vaguely justifies any new directions whatsoever.
I.E, if you dig around long enough you will find similarities between anything and everything.

I too am doing my best to like H4, but they're not making it easy for me.

If the Didact is the enemy, it will go against everything I thought at the end of Halo 3, something that would make me wonder if H4 is a sequel to H3, or rather a sequel to Silencium...
A sequel is supposed to continue on the same themes and directions of it's predecessor right?

Even though there were sighs of the Forerunner being less than holy, through the Terminals, there were even more that pointed towards them simply having a severe case of collective hybris; self-righteousness, unjustified responsibility, and in the end unwarranted overconfidence.
Behaviour that pointed towards one thing - a recless and hypocritical nature, not a malevolent such. It would be ridiculous to state that the Forerunners enjoyed wiping the galaxy clean of life, whilst saving themselves from the Flood. They did so with immense shame.

So if the Forerunner are indeed the enemy, I believe--just like many other, that they only are the frontrunners for the Precursor/s.

That they have become bitter and evil would work too; something tells me that the regime that didn't approve of their species final decision, would want to reclaim what they once had - control. Faber would fit into that category. But don't tell me that they were portrayed as evil in the Terminals.

[Edited on 07.29.2012 6:51 AM PDT]

  • 07.29.2012 6:31 AM PDT

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