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Subject: How was Shishka so stupid?


Posted by: burritosenior
Six battle rifle spawns on that map if I remember correctly. If you honestly can't get one or ever get cover and you're getting spawn killed, you were never going to win anyways. If your entire team is wiped against weapons that 'take no skill' and such things, you were never going to win anyways. If you lose just because they won the first fight and you don't have the capability of not getting spawn killed instantly after only 30 seconds of gameplay, you were never going to win anyways.

Assault Rifle starts introduce weapon variety and better gameplay. It's just how it is.


Weapon variety isn't necessarily a good thing when the other weapons are useless. Dual SMGs? A Mauler? Spikers? Including them really doesn't mean much. The game flows better when only the weapons that matter are used, and that happens regardless of AR or BR starts.

The reason people don't pick up SMGs, Spikers, Plasma Rifles, or guns of that nature is because they're not useful when you have a good killing weapon. They're barely useful when you don't. Weapons like shotties, snipers, rockets, swords, and even occasionally Brute Shots will still be used even with BR starts because they matter.

Furthermore, on the Pit the initial battle is won by whoever between two good teams. Either team can rise above for the first 30 seconds. After that though, the winning team will generally have both of their own BRs (from next to their objective and between the two long halls) and the two from the other team. They can then push the other team's tower/sword and watch their entire side of the map with long range headshot weapons.

Plus, AR starts on other maps work even less. Maps like Isolation, Snowbound, Valhalla (yes, it has AR starts), and High Ground all have areas which are very easily controlled with the long range weapons and render the defenseless AR starters useless after losing an initial rush. Those situations simply don't work well in higher level gameplay.

If you're speaking of lower level games where people like to run around randomly and run and gun, that's fine, but that doesn't work all the time by any means.

  • 07.28.2012 10:57 AM PDT

Not to mention - if you're playing 2v2 Oddball on the Pit AR starts, then it works alright for lower level players because they'll put the ball in stupid positions and run around the map with it and not control power weapons etc. With higher level players, when one team has the advantage, they will sit on a sniper tower with the ball, a BR each, a sniper and probably at least 2 rockets as well. you have to try and get them down with ARs and pistols - after spending 20 seconds getting to a position on the map where you can actually hurt them that is - without them killing you - oh, and the score only goes to 100. It's entirely broken and AR starts don't work. Just because they work for people who can't aim doesn't mean they work for everyone.

  • 07.28.2012 11:10 AM PDT

Also, I don't understand this obsession with 'weapon variety'. Where does this idea that more weapons used = better gameplay come from? The game would work fine with half of the sandbox it has - Shotgun, Sword, Sniper, Rockets, AR, BR, Brute Shot and Plasma Rifle/Pistol could suit the game just fine. Weapons like the Spiker and the Mauler and the Hammer are pointless as they're effectively just other weapons reskinned for the exact same purpose. I don't understand this notion that more weapons used = better gameplay at all.

'I just sprayed that guy down with a spiker rather than an AR - I fired orange spikes at him rather than bullets - therefore I'm having more fun!'

[Edited on 07.28.2012 11:14 AM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 11:13 AM PDT


Posted by: analbumcover
What your forgetting is that out AR'ing someone with a sniper or DMR who is across the map from you is great fun =)
Let's play a game - you give me a BR and a sniper and you can have an AR; I'll sit on S2 on the Pit and we can see how long it takes you to get a kill on me. Deal?

  • 07.28.2012 11:15 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: analbumcover
What your forgetting is that out AR'ing someone with a sniper or DMR who is across the map from you is great fun =)
Let's play a game - you give me a BR and a sniper and you can have an AR; I'll sit on S2 on the Pit and we can see how long it takes you to get a kill on me. Deal?


I spectated a 1v1 between analbumcover and burchie. burchie got destroyed. Don't mess.

  • 07.28.2012 11:16 AM PDT
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Your opinion is invalid.


Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: analbumcover
What your forgetting is that out AR'ing someone with a sniper or DMR who is across the map from you is great fun =)
Let's play a game - you give me a BR and a sniper and you can have an AR; I'll sit on S2 on the Pit and we can see how long it takes you to get a kill on me. Deal?


I spectated a 1v1 between analbumcover and burchie. burchie got destroyed. Don't mess.

He also beat me like 25 to 2.

  • 07.28.2012 11:20 AM PDT

Old School Gamer and Proud Member of the Seventh Column

Let it go.

Wrong forum.

  • 07.28.2012 11:21 AM PDT

Was it albumcover's mongoose map?

  • 07.28.2012 11:22 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Killer VVhale

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: X El BaZzA X

Posted by: analbumcover
What your forgetting is that out AR'ing someone with a sniper or DMR who is across the map from you is great fun =)
Let's play a game - you give me a BR and a sniper and you can have an AR; I'll sit on S2 on the Pit and we can see how long it takes you to get a kill on me. Deal?


I spectated a 1v1 between analbumcover and burchie. burchie got destroyed. Don't mess.

He also beat me like 25 to 2.


He's simply the best.

  • 07.28.2012 11:25 AM PDT


Posted by: BeeKay Stacker
First off, I am one alt so your counting prowess leaves much to be desired.
Sure. One. Right.
Thirdly, lol @ buggering chickens.
There you go! You're learning the features of animals! Good for you! Now, what sound does a cow make? A cow goes... 'Moo!' Now you say it...
...
...
Good!
:DPosted by: An average gamer
Weapon variety isn't necessarily a good thing when the other weapons are useless. Dual SMGs? A Mauler? Spikers? Including them really doesn't mean much.
Failure to use certain weapons does not mean they are not useful. They all have their specialties that make them better than other weapons in their ideal situations. I'd say most ''good'' players are simply limited by a narrow set of mind, to be frank with you my good man. The Spiker and Brute Shot do more melee damage. Dual wielding is more effective than using a BR or AR at close range, but at the cost of grenades and equipment. Mauler is an insta-kill with a shot and a melee, making it just as effective as a shotgun in situations where you should have it out.

Weapons like shotties, snipers, rockets, swords, and even occasionally Brute Shots will still be used even with BR starts because they matter. Indeed. But those are the ONLY things. Power weapons. Why? Because the Battle Rifle is so effective in so many situations, it kills and dulls gameplay by making it the only thing ever used. It hurts gameplay this way.

Furthermore, on the Pit the initial battle is won by whoever between two good teams. Either team can rise above for the first 30 seconds. After that though, the winning team will generally have both of their own BRs (from next to their objective and between the two long halls) and the two from the other team. They can then push the other team's tower/sword and watch their entire side of the map with long range headshot weapons. The fun thing with small maps like the Pit is there are so many ways to break the line of sight I can't imagine any good player would ever be unable to do it.

Plus, AR starts on other maps work even less. Maps like Isolation, Snowbound, Valhalla (yes, it has AR starts), and High Ground all have areas which are very easily controlled with the long range weapons and render the defenseless AR starters useless after losing an initial rush.With the possible exception of High Ground (depends on the gametype in my opinion), I'd say all those maps should have BR starts for that same reason. I agree. AR starts on those maps are silly.


Posted by: X El BaZzA X
Weapons like the Spiker and the Mauler and the Hammer are pointless as they're effectively just other weapons reskinned for the exact same purpose. I don't understand this notion that more weapons used = better gameplay at all.
The hammer? Yeah, it's just using the Brute styled energy sword. Except in Grifball, I'm pretty sure a sword user will beat a hammer user every time if I'm remembering correctly. That said, the other weapons all have their specialties. See the previous quotes for details.

'I just sprayed that guy down with a spiker rather than an AR - I fired orange spikes at him rather than bullets - therefore I'm having more fun!'See, that's the thing. You're so limited by your view of only playing Halo one, single way, that you don't understand how to use OTHEr weapons effectively. That is exactly why games should have AR starts on small maps too. You ignore the other weapons and underestimate them just because you don't understand them. Why don't you understand them? Because the Battle Rifle is so effective, in games where you start with it you have no reason to ever switch from it.

  • 07.28.2012 11:27 AM PDT

I don't need a specialized burger; I stack BKs on my own.


Posted by: burritosenior

Sure. One. Right.


I'm literally the only alt to post ITT after you posted. Maybe if you had paid attention in school rather than fingering chickens you'd know how to properly count.

There you go! You're learning the features of animals! Good for you! Now, what sound does a cow make? A cow goes... 'Moo!' Now you say it...
...
...
Good!


Oh look, the retarded chicken molester is angry.

  • 07.28.2012 11:35 AM PDT


Posted by: burritosenior
The best players use what will work best rather than learning to use every weapon efficiently when a large portion of the weapons are useless in every situation. I cannot think of a situation where I would seriously rather have an AR or a Spiker over an SMG. Or a Mauler over a Shotgun. Or a Hammer over a Sword. They're all reskins. I don't need to 'get better' by 'learning to use' these weapons because they're all so boring and useless that 'using them effectively' doesn't benefit me because I still don't have a reason to pick them up.

Not to mention - these copy-paste weapons are all short range. It's not hard to see why 'the BR is the only weapon used, dulls down gameplay blah blah' when there are only FIVE medium or long ranged weapons in the game, three of them are power weapons, two of them are only on a select handful of maps and one of them you can't choose to spawn with. The BR is pretty much the only weapon left.

Understanding that the Spiker has a more powerful melee or the PR can drain shields effectively (both of which I already knew) doesn't help me clear out those guys on S2 with BR/Sniper/Rockets when I have an AR.

'They've got map control, weapon control, but I have a plan - let's rush the Spikers.'

It doesn't happen, and for a good reason.

[Edited on 07.28.2012 11:55 AM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 11:50 AM PDT
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Shishka should go drown in a hole. Burrito I don't understand how you could defend ar starts on the pit over Br's. But then again you defend Reach so I guess it makes sense.

[Edited on 07.28.2012 12:13 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 12:11 PM PDT

Lulz. Mad kid is mad. But at least he's learning. Chickens go 'Bawk' by the way.
XP

Anyways...


Posted by: X El BaZzA X
The best players use what will work best rather than learning to use every weapon efficiently when a large portion of the weapons are useless in every situation.
/will use what works best.
/doesn't learn what the best weapon is for every situation because he's too good for that.

wat

I cannot think of a situation where I would seriously rather have an AR or a Spiker over an SMG.Spiker for melee damage. There is more than one way to play Halo, mate. Assault Rifle if you don't have another dual-wieldable weapon handy.

Or a Mauler over a Shotgun. Or a Hammer over a Sword. They're all reskins.The Mauler isn't a power weapon. It isn't supposed to be. So of course you wouldn't rather have it over the shotgun.
But if you're good with it, you can outplay a shotgun at least to the point of a mutual death, which is very useful. But, as you say, you don't want to learn how to use weapons...

And the Hammer is just the Brute canonical excuse for a melee weapon just like the ceremonial energy sword.

I don't need to 'get better' by 'learning to use' these weapons because they're all so boring and useless that 'using them effectively' doesn't benefit me because I still don't have a reason to pick them up./has never tried something
/says he doesn't want to try to learn how they would be useful
/says they aren't useful because he doesn't know how to use them and doesn't want to use them

wat

Not to mention - these copy-paste weapons are all short range. It's not hard to see why 'the BR is the only weapon used, dulls down gameplay blah blah' when there are only FIVE medium or long ranged weapons in the game, three of them are power weapons, two of them are only on a select handful of maps and one of them you can't choose to spawn with. The BR is pretty much the only weapon left.In BR starts? Yes. But not on small maps like the Pit which is, of course, what we're talking about.

Understanding that the Spiker has a more powerful melee or the PR can drain shields effectively (both of which I already knew) doesn't help me clear out those guys on S2 with BR/Sniper/Rockets when I have an AR. If somebody has a rocket and you're in Spiker range a Battle Rifle won't help you either. Tisn't really fair of you to be putting these weapons against power weapons. They aren't power weapons. They're not supposed to be. It's pretty simple, really.

Regardless, if you're in Spiker range and the other person is using a Sniper, then the Spiker is probably the better option, wouldn't you agree?

Oh and by the way? Knowing =/= being able to implement effectively. Perhaps you should put that melee/shield draining information to use in the future.
Posted by: X El BaZzA X
'They've got map control, weapon control, but I have a plan - let's rush the Spikers.'

It doesn't happen, and for a good reason.
Indeed. That reason being... the game doesn't revolve around them. Such weapons supplement the gaming experience. They don't force the game to inevitably revolve around them. Like the Battle Rifle. This provides a more fun gameplay experience, more diversity in the gameplay (a cause to the effect of a generally better experience). This is why Assault Rifle starts are so great. We can supplement the experience with other weapons to fill certain niches rather than exclusively using the Battle Rifle, supporting dull, monotonous, never changing gameplay.

  • 07.28.2012 12:21 PM PDT

You clearly haven't grasped it yet. There is no point to me 'learning to use' the Spiker because there is no situation where I would ever want to use it. I'm aware that you're terrible at this game and obsessed with your stupid BUNGLE but for the people who actually want to win there is no reason to use these weapons. There is nothing to learn about the mauler; it's the same as the Shotgun.

Oh, and you're claiming I've never used the Spiker. I made a 1 month quite a while back where I got to level 17 using nothing but the Spiker, so you're incorrect.

The simple fact is your weapon variety does nothing because none of these weapons are useful enough to have any impact. If the opponents have map control, spawning with an AR is useless and picking up a spiker or a mauler or a plasma rifle isn't going to help.

  • 07.28.2012 12:26 PM PDT

Also, please explain to me how people using more weapons = better experience/more fun.

  • 07.28.2012 12:26 PM PDT

Meepzoid

One does not simply call Shishka stupid.

  • 07.28.2012 12:29 PM PDT
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Bringing in Fikst. Bringing back lmao.
Inheritor # 475 world,

#6 In the Country.

Halocharts.com

China called all through out this thread.

OT: lol thinking that you can just pick up one br and take out the whole enemy team. You're whole team needs them to team shot and make pushes etc.

6 on the map? They already have 4. What you going to do?

Edit: Burrito you think pit is small and good for Ar's? lul

[Edited on 07.28.2012 12:36 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2012 12:33 PM PDT
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Bringing in Fikst. Bringing back lmao.
Inheritor # 475 world,

#6 In the Country.

Halocharts.com


Posted by: X El BaZzA X
Also, please explain to me how people using more weapons = better experience/more fun.


I agree. Is he trying to tell us that people have fun by swapping weapons and looking at the colours that come out while they don't get kills with them?

Okay then...

  • 07.28.2012 12:40 PM PDT


Posted by: burritosenior
This is why Assault Rifle starts are so great. We can supplement the experience with other weapons to fill certain niches
No we can't because there's no reason to pick them up

  • 07.28.2012 12:54 PM PDT

Why Bungie, why would you do this?! - Halo Community

How long has the Pit been considered a small map?

While I like weapon diversity, I don't like AR starts. Anywhere. The thing for me is that AR starts are very one dimensional fights. You just hold the trigger and hope to win. Very boring. BR's require constant aim and strategic maneuvers can be used to evolve the situation.

That, and long range beats short range in Halo. If we are in a short hallway, my BR might stand a fraction of a chance against the AR. In a long hallway, your AR has a 0% chance of winning. Thus, BR starts are just more standardized and fair if you loss the initial rush.

The weapon diversity in H3 was a good thing. Maulers could be used as shotguns if you didn't have a shotgun. Dual wielding gave small weapons some creative uses, most short range solutions. I never thought Halo needed as many as many CQC weapons as it did, but they were OK none the less.

  • 07.28.2012 12:55 PM PDT

Posted by: X El BaZzA X
There is no point to me 'learning to use' the Spiker because there is no situation where I would ever want to use it.
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid it is you that is failing to 'grasp it.' You are saying you don't want to use it because it isn't useful. Then you're saying you don't want to learn how it is actually useful. It's circular logic, and quite silly I'm afraid.

There is nothing to learn about the mauler; it's the same as the Shotgun. If it's the same as a shotgun then why wouldn't you want to use it just as much as a shotgun? It clearly has a purpose then. And if your only argument is that the 'shotgun is better,' I would say you do not understand how to use it effectively. Which, again, brings us to your circular logic about how it isn't good because you don't know how to use it and you don't know how to use it because it isn't good.

Oh, and you're claiming I've never used the Spiker. I made a 1 month quite a while back where I got to level 17 using nothing but the Spiker, so you're incorrect.Sorry, but you clearly learned nothing from that experience. At such low levels you don't need to change your gameplay up at all, neh? It's the same problem in WoW. All these people level up so quickly that they never have to learn the basics of their class anymore. So suddenly they're level 85 but they've never done a dungeon or a raid before! Then kids get all mad at them for not knowing every single fight in each raid/ dungeon. It's nuts!

The simple fact is your weapon variety does nothing because none of these weapons are useful enough to have any impact.You simply don't understand how to use them.

If the opponents have map control, spawning with an AR is uselessIf you spawn with a BR, the game is boring, monotonous, repetitive, just dull overall. If you spawn with an AR, the 'map control' won't last forever and it provides more variety in gameplay.
Posted by: X El BaZzA X
Also, please explain to me how people using more weapons = better experience/more fun.
The Battle Rifle promotes a single style of gameplay, as you have demonstrated in this thread multiple times already. Assault Rifle starts allow people to use more of the sandbox causing games to play out differently. Instead of it being about 4-shotting eery kill, it can be about 4-shotting, melees, short range, more mid-range and exciting encounters ultimately creating a more diverse and enjoyable experience.

  • 07.28.2012 12:57 PM PDT

Half of what I say is true. The other half are also lies.


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Jeez, I thought I was in the Reach forum. I guess I was mistaken. And what's up with complaining about AR starts? Are you not good enough to use them? Saved me plenty of times.

  • 07.28.2012 1:02 PM PDT

Burritosenior confirming what I already knew.

Burrito, everything you say is stupid, you are bad, you should feel bad and you are a terrible person for killing owls.

  • 07.28.2012 1:03 PM PDT


Posted by: TilledMule9946
Jeez, I thought I was in the Reach forum. I guess I was mistaken. And what's up with complaining about AR starts? Are you not good enough to use them? Saved me plenty of times.
You're a Highest Skill 7 in Halo 3 and you're not even positive in Reach. You don't play against anyone competent enough to render your AR useless.

  • 07.28.2012 1:04 PM PDT

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