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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Are People So Opposed to the Halo Books?
  • Subject: Why Are People So Opposed to the Halo Books?
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look in the trailer, the master cheif gets the accknowledgement lights like when other spartans ackknowledge their orders. then he nods. three lights in the corner of his mask. then he nods. when the banshees are flying around. there shall be spartans. maybe the elites are under him otherwise.

  • 06.17.2006 2:53 AM PDT

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Posted by: xXdeathomenXx
ok first things first... Bungie themselves have already stated that the books (all of which i've read) are not strictly paralell to the games.

Bungie has also said that there will be NO more spartans in Halo 3 other than the Chief. Read the Faq and their press release.

Now.. think... if they decided to start putting stuff in from the books like that stupid crystal or more spartans than the VAST majority of the gamers will NOT know what's going on because the games simply have no more room nor do they have time to explain stuff that happened at Reach (the crystal and other Spartans) which happened before the first game.

There will be NO crystal nor will there be Spartans other than the Chief!!!!

No..no, you're totally wrong actually. They said that the SPARTAN in the trailer we the Chief and not another (you know how some people thought it was Kelly or Will), but they NEVER said anything about no more SPARTANS. Read the link in my sig about the books being canon, you will find it interesting.

To the guy above me about the acknoledgement lights...no. Those are made for ease of use, and stealth..Once some Elites see you because a light flashes on your Helmet, there goes the Stealth factor..when they contact their allies, there goes the easiness of the mission as well.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 9:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Shiska: The Fall of Reach, The Flood, and First Strike are official books. Yes, Bungie had say in their writing Yes, the writers did some of their own work nothing was published without first receiving Bungie's approval.

However, what you fail to realize is that the books act as flavor for the hardcore. Guess what? Out of the millions that have bought and played the second Halo, only a tiny handful have actually READ these books. As such, it'd be unwise to reference the books directly in the game, as the reference would be obscure and misunderstood by the majority of players

The books enhance the games, not the other way around.

The mistake in your thinking is that Halo 1 doesn't "reference" anything that happened in The Flood. It's the other way around. And, Halo 1 didn't reference anything that happened during Fall of Reach, just as Halo 2 didn't reference anything that happened in First Strike.

Shiska: Something I must point out, now that this thread has grown...

The Cortana letters are not canon. They're a relic of a time when the first Halo wasn't even a first person shooter, yet. I suggest you do not read too deeply into them to find secrets about the games- there's nothing there to find

Halo Story Page: Would the books make the cut?


Joseph Staten: The books are, for better or worse, part of the canon. In the future we may choose to revise or flat-out ignore some of the less appealing ideas (Johnson's biological immunity to the Flood, for example), but folks should treat them as defining elements of the Halo universe

  • 06.17.2006 9:26 AM PDT

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The novels are official canon to the Halo storyline, whether or not you see small inconsistencies in them, and whether or not your beloved Spartans other than the Master Chief are not seen in the games. Listed below is a huge collection of quotes from various Bungie employees, Microsoft employees, and novel authors.


GameSpy: When you were writing the game's script, did you want to tie the whole universe together, including stuff that was in the two books?

Joe Staten: The books are full of wonderful, complex elements that would be hugely problematic if we included them in Halo 2 in any meaningful way (e.g. the existence of other Spartans). That being said, I did my best to be take the books into account as I wrote, and there are definitely common themes and characters. The opposite is true as well; Eric Nylund and I spoke often as he gathered is thoughts for the third Halo novel, "First Strike."


How Stuff Works: Was the "Halo" story fully realized and segmented into different games, or did you take the story as far as "Halo 1" and when it came time for a sequel, build the story from the ground up?


Pete Parsons: The "Halo" universe has an overarching story that is well thought out and was well thought out before "Halo 2." We have roughly 600 years worth of "Halo" fiction, and we know what happens inside of that universe at any given time. The ["Halo 2"] story itself only existed as notes and was really fleshed out. We know ultimately, at least in the "Halo" universe, where humanity came from, where it's going to, at what point in time it comes in contact with The Covenant [the villains in "Halo"] and what happens well beyond that.

"Halo 2" picks up literally right after "Halo 1." But there is still plenty of story in and around that. And you can see some of that in the three novels we have.

How Stuff Works: The novelization of a video game is, well ... novel. Where does Eric Nyland <sic> get the background for his books?

Pete Parsons: We work closely with him on all the stories. So what we do is we have these story arcs of the "Halo" universe, and Eric goes in and says, "Well that's a really good piece to take and here is in a microcosm what I think that story will look like."

How Stuff Works: Are you guys very conscious to make sure that everything fits together -- that the books and games don't contradict one another -- so that everyone can look to any source and say, "This is very consistent, fully realized world"?

Pete Parsons:Yes, but not in the marketing kind of way. We do it because we want the "Halo" universe to be manifold. You can certainly probably pull out some inconsistencies, but as a general rule we really try to keep it manifold. Because we think that ultimately we are doing this for ourselves. And after that, we're doing it for our fans, and we want them to really believe in this place that is the Halo universe. I think the reason Halo has captured so many imaginations is because we care a lot about what's going on in that universe and how believable that universe is. We have this high level myth that we understand very well.


EGM: You mention Reach; have you read all of the Halo books?

Pete Parsons: Yeah, obviously the Halo fiction. The overarching Halo universe is crafted here, and then guys like...particularly [Halo book author Eric Nylund] has the job of really fleshing out the bones of that particular story arc.

EGM: So somewhere there's a Halo bible that has the basic storyline, including what goes on after Halo 2?

Pete Parsons: Yes, from the present day to the future.


HBO: As the Halo storyline has evolved, have you made changes to Halo: The Fall of Reach, or have you kept it going in the direction you started?

Eric Nylund: By the time writing began, the storyline of the Halo game was more or less finalized. An outline for the novel was approved by Bungie before I began writing-only very minor changes were made to the novel.


HBO: Have there been changes to the GAME (that you know of) due to the book, or due to research instigated by its writing?

Eric Nylund: Not that I'm aware of, no. I relied on the Story Bible quite extensively. The whole idea behind a Story Bible is that if you create a document that accurately describes the universe in which a game takes place, you can use it as a guide for writing a novel (for example) without needing to constantly check the developing novel against a developing game.




Bungie/Microsoft controls the licensing of all Halo products - including the novels:



GameSpy: Also in regards to the "Halo universe," who has ultimate control over where and how the storylines intersect?

Joe Staten: Bungie. Specifically, myself, Jones, Parsons and our community team. And we're very careful about the opportunities we pursue.


GameSpy: When it comes to the expansion of the Halo universe, we've seen books come out, action figures, things like that. Was this a conscious decision by Bungie, or did it just start to happen as the Halo snowball rolled on and got bigger?

Frank O'Connor: You know, if you come by the Bungie offices, the place is absolutely filled with action figures, toys, and other stuff like that. The cool thing about working at Bungie, and I can't speak for the other studios at Microsoft, is that they let us do what we want, and they let us have complete control over our intellectual properties. So, we get to make the things that we want to make. That why I think people like the Halo action figures. They're fully posable, they're really high quality, and they're really detailed, and that's a direct result of us having control over them. It could have been possible for us to just hand that off to some factory and say, "Just make something that looks like this," but every toy, model, and even cups and T-shirts, that come back here, we get final approval over. It's not just approval, though, we also get to make changes like, "No, that's not detailed enough, make it more detailed." That's a really cool thing about working in this studio.


And Shishka said the following in this thread.

Posted By: Shishka
The Fall of Reach, The Flood, and First Strike are official books. Yes, Bungie had say in their writing. Yes, the writers did some of their own work nothing was published without first receiving Bungie's approval.

However, what you fail to realize is that the books act as flavor for the hardcore. Guess what? Out of the millions that have bought and played the second Halo, only a tiny handful have actually READ these books. As such, it'd be unwise to reference the books directly in the game, as the reference would be obscure and misunderstood by the majority of players.

The books enhance the games, not the other way around.

The mistake in your thinking is that Halo 1 doesn't "reference" anything that happened in The Flood. It's the other way around. And, Halo 1 didn't reference anything that happened during Fall of Reach, just as Halo 2 didn't reference anything that happened in First Strike.


That just about wraps that up. Any questions PM me or ask them here. Thanks to The Watchers for the information.

  • 06.17.2006 9:38 AM PDT

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Chill bro. Gotta get my bowl.

Because Bungie said there is no relation between the books and gameplay.

  • 06.17.2006 10:17 AM PDT

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Take the time to read the quotes in my post, then try to prove your point. I just proved anyone who says Halo books aren't having any effect wrong.

  • 06.17.2006 10:26 AM PDT
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look i think the people who say that there will be no more spatens dont hate the books i just think those people keep gettting at angry the people who keep refering to the books and sayin there will be spartens because they(the pople say no spartens in halo 3) keep saying that bungie says they r not goin to refer to the books for the games
but personally i dont care aslong as they make the game good i am fine with watever they do

  • 06.17.2006 10:26 AM PDT
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dont get me wrong or anything, im not targeting any specific person when i say this but:



You People seriously need to stop reading into this trailer. its rubbish.

now i dont know who was the bright one to start with this whole blinking lights in chiefs helmet. but whoever it is deserves a smack across the face ( alright im being too harsh ) but really.COME ON NOW. this is too much. now ppl are claiming that they see "ZOMG, a spartan leg was in one of the banshees!!!!11!!" take a chill pill. really. this is..........just too much. its a TRAILER.

i mean whats next: "holy crap. if you look closely at the clouds you see the face of a forerunner!!!" or better yet: "look at frame 2:34:57, you can see a spartan in the window of the capital ship!!!" ????

really all this talk about spartans and all that noise is just what your eyes want you to see. seriously, whose is gonna go through the time to put in a blinky light or a leg you dont really see sticking out of a banshee. just watch the trailer, accept that the covenant has so far won, and leave it at that. there are no spartans in his helmet. no spartans in the banshee. all we see are the covie fleet that took earth, and the ark.

and ppl need to read the quotes posted above. SEEING AS HOW only about 8% of us have read the books, theres no need to start pulling spartans out of our arse and dropping them in the story.

not a rant, just a thought

  • 06.17.2006 10:38 AM PDT
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People who didnt read the books wouldnt understand the new characters and story

  • 06.17.2006 10:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: major_gamer
Because Bungie said there is no relation between the books and gameplay.


Hahaha, that was priceless, especially coming right after the post with all the quotes- seriously... where do people get all of these "Bungie said..." ideas?

And to Namiko (sorry if I mispelled it)... that quote is in reference to Halo 2 and Halo 1- Halo 3 is a whole new game. Am I saying that there WILL be Spartans in Halo 3- of course not, because I don't know. But to say that there won't be any based on that quote? That's a little closed-minded.

I just don't know why people completely scoff at the idea that Bungie might incorporate something from the books. They already have in some minor ways, and nobody seemed to mind.

  • 06.17.2006 10:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
dont get me wrong or anything, im not targeting any specific person when i say this but:



You People seriously need to stop reading into this trailer. its rubbish.

now i dont know who was the bright one to start with this whole blinking lights in chiefs helmet. but whoever it is deserves a smack across the face ( alright im being too harsh ) but really.COME ON NOW. this is too much. now ppl are claiming that they see "ZOMG, a spartan leg was in one of the banshees!!!!11!!" take a chill pill. really. this is..........just too much. its a TRAILER.

i mean whats next: "holy crap. if you look closely at the clouds you see the face of a forerunner!!!" or better yet: "look at frame 2:34:57, you can see a spartan in the window of the capital ship!!!" ????

really all this talk about spartans and all that noise is just what your eyes want you to see. seriously, whose is gonna go through the time to put in a blinky light or a leg you dont really see sticking out of a banshee. just watch the trailer, accept that the covenant has so far won, and leave it at that. there are no spartans in his helmet. no spartans in the banshee. all we see are the covie fleet that took earth, and the ark.

and ppl need to read the quotes posted above. SEEING AS HOW only about 8% of us have read the books, theres no need to start pulling spartans out of our arse and dropping them in the story.

not a rant, just a thought


If we can, let's try to keep this discussion centered around why or why not people seem so opposed to the idea that the books will be used in some way in Halo 3. Other people have mentioned the trailer, but I pretty much just ignore them.

Also- you seem to have used the "not many people have read the books" argument- have you seen the counter-points we've already made, or did you read any of the rest of the topic?

The Helljumpers were included in the games, and they were mentioned in the books- the world kept on turning, and nobody seemed to notice.

When the Prophets first appeared in Halo 2 (I hadn't read the books at this point), I didn't freak out because I didn't know who they were- I watched, listened, and used deductive reasoning to piece together who they were, and what the Covenant hierarchy is. It wasn't that difficult.

  • 06.17.2006 10:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pwnocchio
I'm just curious- there are all these threads saying "THERE WONT BE ANY SPARTANS OMG!!!11!!", and I'm just curious as to why people are so offended at the suggestion that there might be more to the Halo story than meets the eye.

Now, I don't think that EVERYTHING from the books is going to pop up- but let's be reasonable- things have popped up from the books before, and they probably will again. Why are people so angry about books that they haven't even read?


Because bungie stated there will be no other spartans in a gamespy interview.

  • 06.17.2006 10:51 AM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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* Tartarus
* The Arbiter
* The Prophet of Truth
* Lord Hood
* Fleet Admiral Harper
* The ODSTs/Helljumpers

* The Covenant Flagship; Ascendant Justice

* Covenant A.I.s

* Race: Prophets
* Race: Brutes

* Cortana; going whacky (it's hinted at at the end of H2, and in the H3 trailer)

* Johnson; Escaped Halo's blast

* Battle Rifle
* Brute shot
* SMG
* Magnum
* Archer missile pods
* Orbital MAC cannons

* New feature: Dual Wielding

* Time warping crystal; we experience it's effects in Halo 2.

* Ships; dual core, spinning reactors as seen on the PoA; not mentioned in the game but in the book

* Slipspace; jumping from inside an atmosphere

  • 06.17.2006 10:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pwnocchio
It wasn't that difficult.
Apperantly Bungie thinks different.

  • 06.17.2006 10:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Lone Heretic
Posted by: Pwnocchio
It wasn't that difficult.
Apperantly Bungie thinks different.


Huh? How does that even make sense? Do you even know what I typed? I'm not even going to respond to that.

And to sycomunkee- where is this quote? Do they specifically say "There will be no Spartans in Halo 3". Show me and I'll believe it. But beyond that, I'm mainly talking about the inclusion of anything from the books. You are SO opposed to them for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out why- do you people just hate reading that much? You post so passionately and in all caps that the books won't be included... I hate to break it to you, but small elements from the books were already included in Halo 1 and Halo 2, for the hardcore fans. You're going to have to deal with (in some form or antoher) in Halo 3.

  • 06.17.2006 10:57 AM PDT
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its because they cant afford them

  • 06.17.2006 11:01 AM PDT
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alright, alright, i know theres plenty that was introduced in halo 2 that wasnt in halo 1. but halo 2 didnt pick up directly where halo 1 left off. halo 3 is more or less just part two of halo 2.

now there is SO much that bungie needs to get into before halo 3 can be complete. with all this stuff going on, one meager cutscene that explains some half-a_ _ed backstory about spartans that nobody would care for will ruin the game.

seriously. this is CHIEF'S SHOW. its all about him.

  • 06.17.2006 11:02 AM PDT

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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Posted by: Pwnocchio
Posted by: The Lone Heretic
Posted by: Pwnocchio
It wasn't that difficult.
Apperantly Bungie thinks different.


Huh? How does that even make sense? Do you even know what I typed? I'm not even going to respond to that.

And to sycomunkee- where is this quote? Do they specifically say "There will be no Spartans in Halo 3". Show me and I'll believe it. But beyond that, I'm mainly talking about the inclusion of anything from the books. You are SO opposed to them for some reason, and I'm trying to figure out why- do you people just hate reading that much? You post so passionately and in all caps that the books won't be included... I hate to break it to you, but small elements from the books were already included in Halo 1 and Halo 2, for the hardcore fans. You're going to have to deal with (in some form or antoher) in Halo 3.

They said "The Spartan in the trailer is the Master Chief, no one else"...so he automatically think this means something completely different..

  • 06.17.2006 11:03 AM PDT
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shut up.. you're thoeries are usually good and i've supported them but now you're jsut being annoying
Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
alright, alright, i know theres plenty that was introduced in halo 2 that wasnt in halo 1. but halo 2 didnt pick up directly where halo 1 left off. halo 3 is more or less just part two of halo 2.

now there is SO much that bungie needs to get into before halo 3 can be complete. with all this stuff going on, one meager cutscene that explains some half-a_ _ed backstory about spartans that nobody would care for will ruin the game.

seriously. this is CHIEF'S SHOW. its all about him.

  • 06.17.2006 11:06 AM PDT
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hey guys here is a idea y dont we say that the books and the games are two different unverses that tell the story of halo but in a different way in each universe.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 11:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: Halo Man 8921
hey guys here is a idea y dont we say that the books and the games are two different unverses that tell the story of halo but in a different way in each universe. it makes sense in one universe the spartens die and in another one they live which makes a whole different story but they r still in the same halo universe see that how i think of the games and the books and it works


make sense or be quiet

  • 06.17.2006 11:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: ICEMAN ASSASS1N
alright, alright, i know theres plenty that was introduced in halo 2 that wasnt in halo 1. but halo 2 didnt pick up directly where halo 1 left off. halo 3 is more or less just part two of halo 2.

now there is SO much that bungie needs to get into before halo 3 can be complete. with all this stuff going on, one meager cutscene that explains some half-a_ _ed backstory about spartans that nobody would care for will ruin the game.

seriously. this is CHIEF'S SHOW. its all about him.


Actually, in the Trailer FAQ, it says that Halo 3 takes place some time after Halo 2- they're not one right after the other, really. It could even be a few months later.

I think the inclusion of other Spartans might enhance that it's the Chief's show. In the books, they regard him very highly as their leader. And I'm not saying you play as other Spartans- but I would love to see them included in a co-op. If not, it's fine, and I see what you're saying, that it could be a little confusing to have them. However, really, if they just showed 4 spartans walking around with MC, and MC says "Good to have you guys back"... Haha, that might be all that people need. I doubt they would care for too long.

  • 06.17.2006 11:10 AM PDT
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it would take an idiot to not understand that other spartans have returned from somewhere

  • 06.17.2006 11:14 AM PDT

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