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  • Subject: BOOKS DO NOT EFFECT THE GAME !!NO OTHER SPARTANS!!
Subject: BOOKS DO NOT EFFECT THE GAME !!NO OTHER SPARTANS!!

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The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

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The novels are official canon to the Halo storyline, whether or not you see small inconsistencies in them, and whether or not your beloved Spartans other than the Master Chief are not seen in the games. Listed below is a huge collection of quotes from various Bungie employees, Microsoft employees, and novel authors.


GameSpy: When you were writing the game's script, did you want to tie the whole universe together, including stuff that was in the two books?

Joe Staten: The books are full of wonderful, complex elements that would be hugely problematic if we included them in Halo 2 in any meaningful way (e.g. the existence of other Spartans). That being said, I did my best to be take the books into account as I wrote, and there are definitely common themes and characters. The opposite is true as well; Eric Nylund and I spoke often as he gathered is thoughts for the third Halo novel, "First Strike."


How Stuff Works: Was the "Halo" story fully realized and segmented into different games, or did you take the story as far as "Halo 1" and when it came time for a sequel, build the story from the ground up?


Pete Parsons: The "Halo" universe has an overarching story that is well thought out and was well thought out before "Halo 2." We have roughly 600 years worth of "Halo" fiction, and we know what happens inside of that universe at any given time. The ["Halo 2"] story itself only existed as notes and was really fleshed out. We know ultimately, at least in the "Halo" universe, where humanity came from, where it's going to, at what point in time it comes in contact with The Covenant [the villains in "Halo"] and what happens well beyond that.

"Halo 2" picks up literally right after "Halo 1." But there is still plenty of story in and around that. And you can see some of that in the three novels we have.

How Stuff Works: The novelization of a video game is, well ... novel. Where does Eric Nyland <sic> get the background for his books?

Pete Parsons: We work closely with him on all the stories. So what we do is we have these story arcs of the "Halo" universe, and Eric goes in and says, "Well that's a really good piece to take and here is in a microcosm what I think that story will look like."

How Stuff Works: Are you guys very conscious to make sure that everything fits together -- that the books and games don't contradict one another -- so that everyone can look to any source and say, "This is very consistent, fully realized world"?

Pete Parsons:Yes, but not in the marketing kind of way. We do it because we want the "Halo" universe to be manifold. You can certainly probably pull out some inconsistencies, but as a general rule we really try to keep it manifold. Because we think that ultimately we are doing this for ourselves. And after that, we're doing it for our fans, and we want them to really believe in this place that is the Halo universe. I think the reason Halo has captured so many imaginations is because we care a lot about what's going on in that universe and how believable that universe is. We have this high level myth that we understand very well.


EGM: You mention Reach; have you read all of the Halo books?

Pete Parsons: Yeah, obviously the Halo fiction. The overarching Halo universe is crafted here, and then guys like...particularly [Halo book author Eric Nylund] has the job of really fleshing out the bones of that particular story arc.

EGM: So somewhere there's a Halo bible that has the basic storyline, including what goes on after Halo 2?

Pete Parsons: Yes, from the present day to the future.


HBO: As the Halo storyline has evolved, have you made changes to Halo: The Fall of Reach, or have you kept it going in the direction you started?

Eric Nylund: By the time writing began, the storyline of the Halo game was more or less finalized. An outline for the novel was approved by Bungie before I began writing-only very minor changes were made to the novel.


HBO: Have there been changes to the GAME (that you know of) due to the book, or due to research instigated by its writing?

Eric Nylund: Not that I'm aware of, no. I relied on the Story Bible quite extensively. The whole idea behind a Story Bible is that if you create a document that accurately describes the universe in which a game takes place, you can use it as a guide for writing a novel (for example) without needing to constantly check the developing novel against a developing game.




Bungie/Microsoft controls the licensing of all Halo products - including the novels:



GameSpy: Also in regards to the "Halo universe," who has ultimate control over where and how the storylines intersect?

Joe Staten: Bungie. Specifically, myself, Jones, Parsons and our community team. And we're very careful about the opportunities we pursue.


GameSpy: When it comes to the expansion of the Halo universe, we've seen books come out, action figures, things like that. Was this a conscious decision by Bungie, or did it just start to happen as the Halo snowball rolled on and got bigger?

Frank O'Connor: You know, if you come by the Bungie offices, the place is absolutely filled with action figures, toys, and other stuff like that. The cool thing about working at Bungie, and I can't speak for the other studios at Microsoft, is that they let us do what we want, and they let us have complete control over our intellectual properties. So, we get to make the things that we want to make. That why I think people like the Halo action figures. They're fully posable, they're really high quality, and they're really detailed, and that's a direct result of us having control over them. It could have been possible for us to just hand that off to some factory and say, "Just make something that looks like this," but every toy, model, and even cups and T-shirts, that come back here, we get final approval over. It's not just approval, though, we also get to make changes like, "No, that's not detailed enough, make it more detailed." That's a really cool thing about working in this studio.


And Shishka said the following in this thread.

Posted By: Shishka
The Fall of Reach, The Flood, and First Strike are official books. Yes, Bungie had say in their writing. Yes, the writers did some of their own work nothing was published without first receiving Bungie's approval.

However, what you fail to realize is that the books act as flavor for the hardcore. Guess what? Out of the millions that have bought and played the second Halo, only a tiny handful have actually READ these books. As such, it'd be unwise to reference the books directly in the game, as the reference would be obscure and misunderstood by the majority of players.

The books enhance the games, not the other way around.

The mistake in your thinking is that Halo 1 doesn't "reference" anything that happened in The Flood. It's the other way around. And, Halo 1 didn't reference anything that happened during Fall of Reach, just as Halo 2 didn't reference anything that happened in First Strike.


That just about wraps that up. Any questions PM me or ask them here. Thanks to The Watchers for the information.

  • 06.17.2006 9:50 AM PDT
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Thanx MLG I knew it was out there.

Now watch this thread die because there is truth.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 9:55 AM PDT
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The dots are Morse code. It is the unique code that Spartans use to tell each other that they are there. No-one out side the spartans (in the haloverse anyway) knows what the code is. Stick it in a translator, see waht you come up with.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 9:57 AM PDT
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OLE OLE OXEN FREE

Bungie likes to joke around, what the hell is your point?

Humans know morse code, its been around for hundreds of years.

  • 06.17.2006 10:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Shiska: The Fall of Reach, The Flood, and First Strike are official books. Yes, Bungie had say in their writing Yes, the writers did some of their own work nothing was published without first receiving Bungie's approval.

However, what you fail to realize is that the books act as flavor for the hardcore. Guess what? Out of the millions that have bought and played the second Halo, only a tiny handful have actually READ these books. As such, it'd be unwise to reference the books directly in the game, as the reference would be obscure and misunderstood by the majority of players

The books enhance the games, not the other way around.

The mistake in your thinking is that Halo 1 doesn't "reference" anything that happened in The Flood. It's the other way around. And, Halo 1 didn't reference anything that happened during Fall of Reach, just as Halo 2 didn't reference anything that happened in First Strike.

Shiska: Something I must point out, now that this thread has grown...

The Cortana letters are not canon. They're a relic of a time when the first Halo wasn't even a first person shooter, yet. I suggest you do not read too deeply into them to find secrets about the games- there's nothing there to find

Halo Story Page: Would the books make the cut?


Joseph Staten: The books are, for better or worse, part of the canon. In the future we may choose to revise or flat-out ignore some of the less appealing ideas (Johnson's biological immunity to the Flood, for example), but folks should treat them as defining elements of the Halo universe




[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 10:05 AM PDT
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Where did everyone go? this thread was sizzling about my beleif that there will not be more spartans other than the MC in halo3

  • 06.17.2006 10:09 AM PDT
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I know, I was just putting in the code for fun.

In first strike (the events between Halo 1 and Halo 2) MC returns to reach, and hears the beeping signal of the morse over the radio, and KNOWS because of it, there are spartans down there, so he goes and saves them.

  • 06.17.2006 10:14 AM PDT
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  • 06.17.2006 10:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: ajhayter
I know, I was just putting in the code for fun.

In first strike (the events between Halo 1 and Halo 2) MC returns to reach, and hears the beeping signal of the morse over the radio, and KNOWS because of it, there are spartans down there, so he goes and saves them.


But because of the existance of the gamespy interview near the top of this page, we now know none of these spartans will be in halo3

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 10:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: sycomunkee
ITS ALREADY BEEN STATED THAT BUNGIE HAS FREE REIN ON WHAT IS IN THE GAME AND WHAT ISNT.

OTHER SPARTANS ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN THE GAME, ITS ALREADY BEEN STATED.

ALSO BUNGIE HAS OVER 600 YEARS OF HALO UNIVERSE WRITTEN DOWN AS WELL AS A HALO BIBLE THAT THE WRITERS HAVE TO ABIDE BY OR ELSE THERE BOOKS DONT GET PUBLISHED, SO EVERYTHING YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAS BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE THEN PUT INTO A STORY.

Pete Parsons: The "Halo" universe has an overarching story that is well thought out and was well thought out before "Halo 2." We have roughly 600 years worth of "Halo" fiction, and we know what happens inside of that universe at any given time. The ["Halo 2"] story itself only existed as notes and was really fleshed out. We know ultimately, at least in the "Halo" universe, where humanity came from, where it's going to, at what point in time it comes in contact with The Covenant [the villains in "Halo"] and what happens well beyond that.


Buddy that quote has NOTHING to do with what you just said- I don't know if your reading comprehension skills are up to the task of using the quotes you've used in this thread. That quote is saying that they have a source in Bungie studios that has ALL of the Halo story, past and future, written out. Where does that say that the books won't be used in the games?

Also, the quotes you posted by MLG- did you even read them? He used those quotes to let somebody else know that the books ARE related. That's what those quotes say. And I'm guessing nobody else that's like "THANKS YES!!11!" didn't read them either.

Reading, people- it helps.

I'm not saying that I think everything in the books should be in the games. I think that would be a bad idea- but there are a couple of elements that I think would COMPLETELY enhance the gameplay. Personally, I really hope there are more Spartans- that way, Bungie can incorporate some great co-op (How does two Master Cheifs make more since then two Spartans anyway?) missions into their game.

  • 06.17.2006 10:50 AM PDT
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If there aren't going to be more than one Spartan in Halo 3, the there sure will be a whole lot of people running around in MC's underwear in multiplayer!

  • 06.17.2006 10:51 AM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

All they need is a short cutscene (about 30 seconds or a minute to explain) the Spartans' existence...And if someone says "well my friends dont reed the books!!!1" or "well whatabout people who press A when a cutscene shows up!??11"

...Bungie makes cutscenes to explain the story..if you skip those, you don't care about the story...so press A, and get ready to fight along side some fellow SPARTANS, being confused will be brought upon yourself.

  • 06.17.2006 10:55 AM PDT
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Read about my gaming here.

My question to all of this, who have ever said that the games are based on the books?

  • 06.17.2006 10:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Naqser
My question to all of this, who have ever said that the games are based on the books?


I think part of the problem is one of symantics... I don't think the games are based on the books, at all- the games came first. However, I think it's ignorant when people say that the games don't use the books in any way to enrich their storyline or their depth, just as the books help flesh out the overall storyline with more depth. There are plenty of examples already posted in this thread and others about minor characters or things that were first mentioned in the books, and then later included in the games (MAC guns, prophets, brutes, brute shots, etc), but people seem to overlook those and just say "well Bungie said it's not true", without offering proof.

Once again, I don't think the game are based on the books- but they don't totally ignore the books, either.

  • 06.17.2006 11:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: Pwnocchio
Posted by: sycomunkee
ITS ALREADY BEEN STATED THAT BUNGIE HAS FREE REIN ON WHAT IS IN THE GAME AND WHAT ISNT.

OTHER SPARTANS ARE NOT GOING TO BE IN THE GAME, ITS ALREADY BEEN STATED.

ALSO BUNGIE HAS OVER 600 YEARS OF HALO UNIVERSE WRITTEN DOWN AS WELL AS A HALO BIBLE THAT THE WRITERS HAVE TO ABIDE BY OR ELSE THERE BOOKS DONT GET PUBLISHED, SO EVERYTHING YOU HAVE MENTIONED HAS BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE THEN PUT INTO A STORY.

Pete Parsons: The "Halo" universe has an overarching story that is well thought out and was well thought out before "Halo 2." We have roughly 600 years worth of "Halo" fiction, and we know what happens inside of that universe at any given time. The ["Halo 2"] story itself only existed as notes and was really fleshed out. We know ultimately, at least in the "Halo" universe, where humanity came from, where it's going to, at what point in time it comes in contact with The Covenant [the villains in "Halo"] and what happens well beyond that.


Buddy that quote has NOTHING to do with what you just said- I don't know if your reading comprehension skills are up to the task of using the quotes you've used in this thread. That quote is saying that they have a source in Bungie studios that has ALL of the Halo story, past and future, written out. Where does that say that the books won't be used in the games?

Also, the quotes you posted by MLG- did you even read them? He used those quotes to let somebody else know that the books ARE related. That's what those quotes say. And I'm guessing nobody else that's like "THANKS YES!!11!" didn't read them either.

Reading, people- it helps.

I'm not saying that I think everything in the books should be in the games. I think that would be a bad idea- but there are a couple of elements that I think would COMPLETELY enhance the gameplay. Personally, I really hope there are more Spartans- that way, Bungie can incorporate some great co-op (How does two Master Cheifs make more since then two Spartans anyway?) missions into their game.





what does this say then?
Can YOU read?


• GameSpy: When you were writing the game's script, did you want to tie the whole universe together, including stuff that was in the two books?

• Joe Staten: The books are full of wonderful, complex elements that would be hugely problematic if we included them in Halo 2 in any meaningful way (e.g. the existence of other Spartans). That being said, I did my best to be take the books into account as I wrote, and there are definitely common themes and characters. The opposite is true as well; Eric Nylund and I spoke often as he gathered is thoughts for the third Halo novel, "First Strike."



Of cource there will be spartans in multiplayer, dont be stupid


Posted by: Pwnocchio
Posted by: Naqser
My question to all of this, who have ever said that the games are based on the books?


I think part of the problem is one of symantics... I don't think the games are based on the books, at all- the games came first. However, I think it's ignorant when people say that the games don't use the books in any way to enrich their storyline or their depth, just as the books help flesh out the overall storyline with more depth. There are plenty of examples already posted in this thread and others about minor characters or things that were first mentioned in the books, and then later included in the games (MAC guns, prophets, brutes, brute shots, etc), but people seem to overlook those and just say "well Bungie said it's not true", without offering proof.

Once again, I don't think the game are based on the books- but they don't totally ignore the books, either.


Also if you cant read, Bungie was already going to put those into the game, because those elements are from the "Halo Bible" the writer(s) of the books didnt make them up himself, he just based a story with them in it.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 11:02 AM PDT
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so you don't have any evidence, just a load of annoying peoples' opinions..
let people beleive what they want
I'm not saying i beleive the spartans will be in it, but why do you care so much what everyone else thinks.
After all it's a forum for posting what you think

  • 06.17.2006 11:05 AM PDT
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*Shrug*

That quote says that if they were included in Halo 2 it would have been problematic- I totally understand that. But in Halo 3, it might not be problematic. That quote doesn't say anything about Halo 3.

At the end of the first book, Fall of Reach, the Spartans left to capture a Covenant leader, one of the Prophets. So prophets were known about since before the events of Halo 1. However, it would have been problematic to include the Prophets in Halo 1, right? They just didn't fit in the storyline, it might be confusing, etc. But they made it into Halo 2 because the storyline necessitated that the Covenant hierarchy be displayed and interacted with.

Once again, I'm not saying Spartans are going to be in Halo 3- but if they are not problematic to the story, then Bungie might put them in. No need to have aneurisms over it :)

  • 06.17.2006 11:06 AM PDT
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Because people make sh** up that has no relivence to anything. Game came first, Books Second. The books were inspired by the game, not vice versa. Some ideas are used in the game, but most are not. Multiple spartans in Halo 3 wont happen....unless its multiplayer..The main story wouldnt be the same and the MC wouldnt seem like the hero with "Back up".

Posted by: Pwnocchio
*Shrug*

That quote says that if they were included in Halo 2 it would have been problematic- I totally understand that. But in Halo 3, it might not be problematic. That quote doesn't say anything about Halo 3.

At the end of the first book, Fall of Reach, the Spartans left to capture a Covenant leader, one of the Prophets. So prophets were known about since before the events of Halo 1. However, it would have been problematic to include the Prophets in Halo 1, right? They just didn't fit in the storyline, it might be confusing, etc. But they made it into Halo 2 because the storyline necessitated that the Covenant hierarchy be displayed and interacted with.

Once again, I'm not saying Spartans are going to be in Halo 3- but if they are not problematic to the story, then Bungie might put them in. No need to have aneurisms over it :)


They couldnt mention Halo3 back then... they just anounced it.

[Edited on 6/17/2006]

  • 06.17.2006 11:08 AM PDT
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lol they are obsessing a bit about other people's opinions

  • 06.17.2006 11:08 AM PDT
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Little do you know "proof" doesn't matter on the internet.

  • 06.17.2006 11:11 AM PDT
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sycmunkee, I see you still haven't commented on the other points from my previous post. Very tricksie!
Posted by: Lono
Isn't there another Spartan in DOA? And doesn't the fact that you can play the actual game, not just multiplayer, with more than one spartan count as proof that there is more than one Spartan? Also, correct me if I'm mistaken please, but in Halo the Chief wore Mark IV (4) armor. In Halo 2 he wore Mark VI (6). So concievably, somebody had to wear the Mark V(5) armor, right?

  • 06.17.2006 11:11 AM PDT
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I dont see much proof in all of that, he's indicating that he knows what will happen in the next game, which no one but bungi does, let people talk, it's not his business what they think

  • 06.17.2006 11:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: sycomunkee
Because people make sh** up that has no relivence to anything. Game came first, Books Second. The books were inspired by the game, not vice versa. Some ideas are used in the game, but most are not. Multiple spartans in Halo 3 wont happen....unless its multiplayer..The main story wouldnt be the same and the MC wouldnt seem like the hero with "Back up".

Posted by: Pwnocchio
*Shrug*

That quote says that if they were included in Halo 2 it would have been problematic- I totally understand that. But in Halo 3, it might not be problematic. That quote doesn't say anything about Halo 3.

At the end of the first book, Fall of Reach, the Spartans left to capture a Covenant leader, one of the Prophets. So prophets were known about since before the events of Halo 1. However, it would have been problematic to include the Prophets in Halo 1, right? They just didn't fit in the storyline, it might be confusing, etc. But they made it into Halo 2 because the storyline necessitated that the Covenant hierarchy be displayed and interacted with.

Once again, I'm not saying Spartans are going to be in Halo 3- but if they are not problematic to the story, then Bungie might put them in. No need to have aneurisms over it :)


They couldnt mention Halo3 back then... they just anounced it.


Still, I don't see how you can definitely say that something won't happen. I see where you're coming from, and it's nice that you finally posted an opinion about why (it would take away from the Master Chief), and that's a reason that I wholeheartedly respect. But to say that it won't happen? That's going out on a limb. I'm not saying one thing one way or another- I'm just saying it's plausible that there ARE things from the books, and plausible that there aren't.

  • 06.17.2006 11:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: sycomunkee
Because people make sh** up that has no relivence to anything. Game came first, Books Second. The books were inspired by the game, not vice versa. Some ideas are used in the game, but most are not. Multiple spartans in Halo 3 wont happen....unless its multiplayer..The main story wouldnt be the same and the MC wouldnt seem like the hero with "Back up".

Posted by: Pwnocchio
*Shrug*

That quote says that if they were included in Halo 2 it would have been problematic- I totally understand that. But in Halo 3, it might not be problematic. That quote doesn't say anything about Halo 3.

At the end of the first book, Fall of Reach, the Spartans left to capture a Covenant leader, one of the Prophets. So prophets were known about since before the events of Halo 1. However, it would have been problematic to include the Prophets in Halo 1, right? They just didn't fit in the storyline, it might be confusing, etc. But they made it into Halo 2 because the storyline necessitated that the Covenant hierarchy be displayed and interacted with.

Once again, I'm not saying Spartans are going to be in Halo 3- but if they are not problematic to the story, then Bungie might put them in. No need to have aneurisms over it :)


They couldnt mention Halo3 back then... they just anounced it.


They didn't even have Halo 3 planned... H3 is on a 360. It's a generation ahead. They can do so much I would not be surprised at all if there were Spartans. Impressed, but not surprised.

  • 06.17.2006 11:14 AM PDT

I'm too old to have a signature.

hmm... letsss see... 1) a book is based on the whole halo:CE game so MAYBE the books will have something to do with it and 2) the guys kept talkign about halo 2 (as in not halo 3) and it wouldnt have worked within the storyline of halo 2, so its called keeping a large secret until the last game.

(And how many surprises does bungie have for us? we never ever know what bungie is doing. it is halo 3, and it WILL be filled with a whole bunch of things which will make us go .... whoah wtf)

  • 06.17.2006 11:17 AM PDT