Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: 3 More Months Until Reach Dies
  • Subject: 3 More Months Until Reach Dies
Subject: 3 More Months Until Reach Dies

Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint


Posted by: Firemaster111
343 was given a valuable piece of marketing information in the implementation of the Reach Team Slayer title update. The TU update was designed to reduce the effectiveness of armor lock and invisibility among other things and while highly skilled purist hailed it as a great improvement because it reduced the effectiveness of the less skilled players that used special abilities the segment of players that Team slayer served did not see it that way. When the refinements were offered the on line players of the Team Slayer format clearly rejected the change. The rejection was so dramatic that the administrators said that they were blown away to use their own verbiage by the response. Even with the implementation of bonus points of various forms designed to improve the participation rates Super Slayer only pulled about 10% of the head count that the Classic Team Slayer produced on a regular basis.

Halo 4s creators having every good intention of improving the game obviously listened to some excellent first person shooters advice during the development cycle. Universal complaints from outstanding players were addressed. Great on line players gravitate to halo platforms that emphasize sniper weapons, head shot kills with DMRS etc and resent the use of special abilities and super weapons that new players and those of moderate skill levels can use to partially compensate for their lack of professionalism.

Halo 4 has implemented changes that are designed to favor behaviors that skilled players prefer. Weapons are given in the form of ordinance drops as rewards for kills and weapon show up at random fixed points. There are plenty of new and interesting weapons but items preferred by the new or casual players while not eliminated outright are dramatically less effective or much harder to come by.

We now have the irrational battlefield assumption that grenades cant be picked up off the ground from fallen soldiers without a special ability, jet packs that don't really fly anymore, invisibility that isn't really invisible when promethean vision is already a highly effective counter measure, plasma pistols that drain very quickly when powered up effectively making the noob combo harder to pull off, needlers that only fire about 3 times before they are empty etc and it all has a net result that favors the highly skilled players in EVERY play format. The problem with all this is Halo needs to serve multiple market segments. It needs to attract new players, retain casual players that like the game but don't have 30 hours a week to devote to video games and hard core gamers. The best way to do this by offering pro, snipers, swat and arena to those with plenty of time to devote to the art without upsetting play formats that serve the new and numerous casual players.

In the end what I think or any of the other guys on this forum think is immaterial. The extent to which Halo serves or fails to serve important market segments is the extent to which Halo will succeed or fail longer term. In marketing the initial boost of sales called an inaugural sales spike that appears when an anticipated product hits the market gives the surface impression that its doing well but the retention rate is everything. When you look at the online populations for Reach after being out two years and then look at how fast Halo 4s online player count is dropping its likely that Reach is or was a stronger game. In fact if you superimpose the deterioration curve of the previous Halo issues on where Halo 4 is now then its going to fall to a baseline way short of Reach. This IS a problem. I hope that when 343 works on Halo 5 they don't forget the marketing lessons that the Reach TU update should have brought home.

Make no mistake about it the Noob is A key to any games success because they are the growth segment.


well said...

  • 12.19.2012 4:10 PM PDT

Posted by: psychowarren102
well said...

nicely repeated ;)

  • 12.20.2012 2:09 AM PDT

Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint


Posted by: Oh GodLike One
Posted by: psychowarren102
well said...

nicely repeated ;)


it was that well said it deserved to be :P

  • 12.20.2012 10:17 AM PDT

Posted by: psychowarren102

Posted by: Oh GodLike One
Posted by: psychowarren102
well said...

nicely repeated ;)

it was that well said it deserved to be :P

Guess thats why the OP cross posted the same message in multiple threads

Its always nice when you can create a single piece of work that is broard enough to cover off so many points ... should make it a sticky and be done.

  • 12.20.2012 11:50 PM PDT

Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint


Its always nice when you can create a single piece of work that is broard enough to cover off so many points ... should make it a sticky and be done.

either that or he's O.C.D :/

  • 12.21.2012 10:01 AM PDT

Posted by: psychowarren102
Its always nice when you can create a single piece of work that is broard enough to cover off so many points ... should make it a sticky and be done.
either that or he's O.C.D :/

Or your dyslexic - and meant to say "or he's COD" (as in a COD player/fan) ... after all his post exhibited both;
- broad application and appeal, plus,
- had a LOT packed into it

  • 12.22.2012 4:17 PM PDT

Now tell me; Which was the man, and which was the machine?

I want to get a positive K/D before I get Halo 4

Like that's gonna happen XD

  • 12.24.2012 5:55 AM PDT

Major props to my hommie Sheeef. He made Recon possible for me. Long time recovering emails and passwords. And it was his. lol.

Posted by: WildKing117
Reach will never die and my goal? Get gold visor
LOLOL! Too bad it has along with Halo 3 and Halo 4.

  • 12.24.2012 9:38 AM PDT

Posted by: ONI12
I want to get a positive K/D before I get Halo 4

Like that's gonna happen XD

Thats part of the problem with reach ... its the game of choice for so many people that appear to think FPS == rush in, hold trigger, get first kill.
(but yet get killed 3 times before the play hold true).

I know reach is easy and suits the casual player.
But this makes the game boring, worse than playing coded AI.

No wonder reach is currently kissing the bottom of the online player game count.

  • 12.25.2012 6:35 PM PDT
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Lady Astor: "If I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee."
Winston Churchill: "If I were your husband I'd drink it !"

I just can't wait for their PS3 releases

  • 01.01.2013 2:36 PM PDT

Posted by: Viron
I just can't wait for their PS3 releases

Of reach ... yeah, keep waiting.

  • 01.02.2013 4:47 AM PDT

I intend to live forever, or die trying,

so far, so good.

REACH has not died.

I am still playing Halo 4, but many of the guys I play with, have gone back to REACH.

I still think Halo 4, is the better game. It does need a TU quickly to address the many problems it does have. But I think the game is REACHED improved. More balanced and no AL.

I compare Halo 4 to REACH what Halo 3 was to Halo 2.

A great improvement. But Halo 3, didn't become great untill its TU. I hope the same can be said for Halo 4.

I really wish that Halo 4, was Halo 3 improved and not Halo Reach improved :(.

That is my opionion.

  • 01.03.2013 2:40 PM PDT

Stop banning me please.

Halo 4 did come out too quickly

  • 01.03.2013 8:34 PM PDT

Posted by: XxExpungexX
Halo 4 did come out too quickly


343 should have developed their own engine.

They played the risk.
Wait a bit longer and do a decent job ... or
Bring something out sooner rather than risk the base wandering off.

I am actually surprised Halo 4 is holding on as well as it is - actually fallen less placed online that reach did in the same period of time ... and thats after people being burnt with bungies reach.

  • 01.04.2013 5:24 AM PDT
Subject: 1 More Month Until Reach Dies

Survive until the red dawn rises, when we have spilled the blood of our enemies.

psst... it isnt dead yet genius

  • 01.04.2013 8:22 AM PDT

This game is dead

Halo 3 wasn't 17th on the XBOX Live List for a long ass time

less than 15th on the list is dead

  • 01.04.2013 3:42 PM PDT

Survive until the red dawn rises, when we have spilled the blood of our enemies.

Halo 3 is definitely dead, only about 1900 players on at any given time. Halo: Reach in my opinion is still very much alive. Matchmaking is still relatively quick, and there are about 27-30 thousand on at any given time of the day.

  • 01.04.2013 8:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Ghost 4119
Halo: Reach in my opinion is still very much alive.

Well ... as long as we have you and your opinion.

Wonder why all those other people are moving away from the game so quickly ... why the massive drop in the online player count?

Guess its you and your opinion against the world.

  • 01.05.2013 5:39 AM PDT

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Looking back on Pre-Halo-4-release posts always makes me giggle. I can't believe people actually thought that Halo 4 was going to be so much better.

  • 01.05.2013 11:58 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Radioactive553
Looking back on Pre-Halo-4-release posts always makes me giggle. I can't believe people actually thought that Halo 4 was going to be so much better.

The core gameplay is better. It's just buried under a mountain of crap.

  • 01.06.2013 1:21 AM PDT

as long as 343i haven't bring grifball to Halo 4, im sticking with halo reach

  • 01.06.2013 2:31 AM PDT

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Radioactive553
Looking back on Pre-Halo-4-release posts always makes me giggle. I can't believe people actually thought that Halo 4 was going to be so much better.

The core gameplay is better. It's just buried under a mountain of crap.

It did have to start with the reach engine.

  • 01.06.2013 4:01 AM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Oh GodLike One
Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Posted by: Radioactive553
Looking back on Pre-Halo-4-release posts always makes me giggle. I can't believe people actually thought that Halo 4 was going to be so much better.

The core gameplay is better. It's just buried under a mountain of crap.

It did have to start with the reach engine.

What Halo 4 shows is that the Reach engine does have the potential to produce solid gameplay (and by this I primarily mean greatly enhanced gunplay) when it's not being watered down by all these casual-pleasing gimmicks. Halo is still in there somewhere. Hopefully any future TUs flesh that out. I rather doubt it, though.

[Edited on 01.06.2013 11:10 AM PST]

  • 01.06.2013 11:09 AM PDT

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
What Halo 4 shows is that the Reach engine does have the potential to produce solid gameplay (and by this I primarily mean greatly enhanced gunplay) when it's not being watered down by all these casual-pleasing gimmicks. Halo is still in there somewhere. Hopefully any future TUs flesh that out. I rather doubt it, though.

Agree with the "Halo is still in there somewhere" but it will take some deep cuts ... some savage cuts that some will not like.

Hopefully they will do this with H5 ... take the hit, take the blame for being the 'new studio' ... and as a result let the game shine again.

  • 01.06.2013 5:08 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.

There is no hope against the M$ hate machine.

  • 01.06.2013 8:24 PM PDT