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Subject: The Post War Covenant

So.. as we know we see a rouge faction called "The Storm" in Halo 4. A lot of us guessed this since it seemed like that couldn't really afford the same type of armour the Covenant powerhouse could.

However that brings up a question to mind. Where are the loyalist Covenant? Are they allied with the Storm, or are the Loyalists completely disintegrated? You would think that the Brutes would hold on strongly to their new religion and that the Prophets would want somebody to fight their battles for them.

Also, do you think we will see either Separatists or Loyalists at any point in the new trilogy, with the more familiar armour we all know and love? If the Loyalists are still around, I would assume they would want the Forerunner items on Requiem or where ever else the series takes us. You would also think the Separatists would continue to hunt them down as well.

So what do you think? Will the "regular" Covenant ever show their faces in the new trilogy at all?

  • 08.09.2012 10:43 AM PDT

Multi-trillionaire modern cowboy.

That's right.

Knowing the brutes, they'd gone savage. Jackals wouldn't get payed anymore, and Hunters would go back to their homes.

Grunt would stay loyal though.

  • 08.09.2012 10:46 AM PDT

You would think the Prophets would keep the Brutes close to them though... because obviously they can't win a war against the Elites by themselves. They need pawns.

  • 08.09.2012 10:50 AM PDT
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The Elite separatists waged war on the Brutes, and it's likely they are in no fit shape to do anything at this point. The prophets are no longer around, they fled their command and retreated into a dark part of the galaxy. All in all, just about every race is burnt out at this point.

But in all honesty I'd like to see "regular" Covenant again. We know there's a faction of Elites that abides the peace treaty set up, and it's been shown before that jackals worked with humans, and shown again in Glasslands. I'm more curious as to what happened to some of the other races like drones and hunters.

  • 08.09.2012 11:10 AM PDT

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@Spartan1995324 The Prophets already lost the war.
"During this period the Prophets, who already had been few in number, largely disappeared, leading to rumours that they had actually finally achieved the Great Journey.[7]" halo.wikia.com

  • 08.09.2012 10:14 PM PDT


Posted by: NIKITSTulin
@Spartan1995324 The Prophets already lost the war.
"During this period the Prophets, who already had been few in number, largely disappeared, leading to rumours that they had actually finally achieved the Great Journey.[7]" halo.wikia.com
Oh I know they lost... But I'm sure they would appreciate some protection from the Brutes. Assuming the Brutes still follow them.

Do you think the Separatists will ever show their faces again?

  • 08.09.2012 10:26 PM PDT
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Loyalist is a lost cause. Even the die hard believers would have lost faith after so much attrition warfare.

Separatist on the other hand is probably the dominant belief. Course, that could very well change if the discoveries on Requiem are indeed immense.

  • 08.09.2012 11:08 PM PDT

I like Halo games, nuff said.

As far as I know, I think that the elites took over the covenant and signed a peace treaty with the UNSC. These storm covenant decided that they didn't like this and so they rebelled, following the prophets old messages and seeking forerunner technology and weapons.

  • 08.10.2012 9:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The factions are not allied according to Karen Travis.

  • 08.10.2012 9:23 AM PDT


Posted by: civilwargeeky
As far as I know, I think that the elites took over the covenant and signed a peace treaty with the UNSC. These storm covenant decided that they didn't like this and so they rebelled, following the prophets old messages and seeking forerunner technology and weapons.
No the Elites only spoke for the Sepapartists. Not the Loyalists.

  • 08.10.2012 9:29 AM PDT
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Its said that the brutes just turned against each other and and fought civil wars. In this weak state, it was easy for the elites to attack them and easily win battles with them. I'm guessing that the brutes weren't wiped out to extinction, but some may have surrendered to the elites to become servants, some may still be fighting the elites, and others just forgot about the covenant and continue to fight amongst themselves. Either way, the brutes were probably brought to their knees after the Covenant downfall.

As for your question, I think it would make sense for elites to appear in Halo 4. I don't see why the UNSC wouldn't let some of their newfound allies on the Infinity with them, but I think they would only trust the elites who were loyal to the arbiter. I hope they do appear and fight with the storm elites.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 10:10 AM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 10:09 AM PDT


Posted by: Water Beetle
Its said that the brutes just turned against each other and and fought civil wars. In this weak state, it was easy for the elites to attack them and easily win battles with them. I'm guessing that the brutes weren't wiped out to extinction, but some may have surrendered to the elites to become servants, some may still be fighting the elites, and others just forgot about the covenant and continue to fight amongst themselves. Either way, the brutes were probably brought to their knees after the Covenant downfall.

As for your question, I think it would make sense for elites to appear in Halo 4. I don't see why the UNSC wouldn't let some of their newfound allies on the Infinity with them, but I think they would only trust the elites who were loyal to the arbiter. I hope they do appear and fight with the storm elites.
Is that immediately after the fall of the Covenant?

  • 08.10.2012 10:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: Water Beetle
Its said that the brutes just turned against each other and and fought civil wars. In this weak state, it was easy for the elites to attack them and easily win battles with them. I'm guessing that the brutes weren't wiped out to extinction, but some may have surrendered to the elites to become servants, some may still be fighting the elites, and others just forgot about the covenant and continue to fight amongst themselves. Either way, the brutes were probably brought to their knees after the Covenant downfall.

As for your question, I think it would make sense for elites to appear in Halo 4. I don't see why the UNSC wouldn't let some of their newfound allies on the Infinity with them, but I think they would only trust the elites who were loyal to the arbiter. I hope they do appear and fight with the storm elites.
Is that immediately after the fall of the Covenant?


Probably, although I haven't finished reading Glasslands yet so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure there's some brutes in Glasslands who serve the elites.

  • 08.10.2012 10:20 AM PDT


Posted by: Water Beetle

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: Water Beetle
Its said that the brutes just turned against each other and and fought civil wars. In this weak state, it was easy for the elites to attack them and easily win battles with them. I'm guessing that the brutes weren't wiped out to extinction, but some may have surrendered to the elites to become servants, some may still be fighting the elites, and others just forgot about the covenant and continue to fight amongst themselves. Either way, the brutes were probably brought to their knees after the Covenant downfall.

As for your question, I think it would make sense for elites to appear in Halo 4. I don't see why the UNSC wouldn't let some of their newfound allies on the Infinity with them, but I think they would only trust the elites who were loyal to the arbiter. I hope they do appear and fight with the storm elites.
Is that immediately after the fall of the Covenant?


Probably, although I haven't finished reading Glasslands yet so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure there's some brutes in Glasslands who serve the elites.


More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.

  • 08.10.2012 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Water Beetle

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: Water Beetle
Its said that the brutes just turned against each other and and fought civil wars. In this weak state, it was easy for the elites to attack them and easily win battles with them. I'm guessing that the brutes weren't wiped out to extinction, but some may have surrendered to the elites to become servants, some may still be fighting the elites, and others just forgot about the covenant and continue to fight amongst themselves. Either way, the brutes were probably brought to their knees after the Covenant downfall.

As for your question, I think it would make sense for elites to appear in Halo 4. I don't see why the UNSC wouldn't let some of their newfound allies on the Infinity with them, but I think they would only trust the elites who were loyal to the arbiter. I hope they do appear and fight with the storm elites.
Is that immediately after the fall of the Covenant?


Probably, although I haven't finished reading Glasslands yet so I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure there's some brutes in Glasslands who serve the elites.


More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.


Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.

  • 08.10.2012 11:23 AM PDT

^ Well I doubt ONI would want the Elites getting a look at humanity's most advanced warship.

Tensions would still be high. And a marine might say "split jaw" which seems to be the Elite equivalent of the n word.

  • 08.10.2012 7:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Water Beetle
Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.


Only, as I recall, He didn't see that friendly toward Humans.

And a number of his followers wanted peace just to build up strength so they could wipe out humanity.

Remember, Glasslands has the "growing numbers of elite youth who respect humanity" wiped out apparently.

  • 08.10.2012 8:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1995324
^ Well I doubt ONI would want the Elites getting a look at humanity's most advanced warship.

Tensions would still be high. And a marine might say "split jaw" which seems to be the Elite equivalent of the n word.


This is more what I was talking about. Humanity got the short straw in the war, and there's 17,000 of us on Infinity; relations on the individual level aren't the best, which would quickly escalate. Arbiter and Rtas, along with the higher ups in their clans, might be comfortable with us, but no one can account for individuals.

Especially on the most important piece of technology humanity has.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Water Beetle
Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.


Only, as I recall, He didn't see that friendly toward Humans.

And a number of his followers wanted peace just to build up strength so they could wipe out humanity.

Remember, Glasslands has the "growing numbers of elite youth who respect humanity" wiped out apparently.


No he doesn't. All he says in his speech is that they need to put aside their differences, put aside their warrior ways, to rebuild, that any war, no matter with whom, would be suicide for them. He--or anyone as I recall--never talks about regrouping to destroy humanity again. All this is right after Arbiter says the words "their are honorable humans. I fought alongside some of them." Coming from a man who just months prior saw us all as termites barely worth scraping off his boot, that's high praise.

Seriously, where do you get these notions from?

[Edited on 08.10.2012 8:21 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 8:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: ROBERTO jh
More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.


Elaborate.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.

Specifically, Thel Vadaam only wanted to have peace with humans. Storm factions do not want because they closely follow old prophet's followings.

  • 08.10.2012 9:09 PM PDT

It gets really confusing between the terms loyalist and separatist. Sometimes I think loyalists are the ones loyal to the prophets but sometimes I think loyalists are the ones loyal to the new Covenant run by the Elites and separatists the ones who still want to fight the humans. Which one is correct?

  • 08.10.2012 9:14 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
No he doesn't. All he says in his speech is that they need to put aside their differences, put aside their warrior ways, to rebuild, that any war, no matter with whom, would be suicide for them.

He says nothing about putting aside differences. He is dismissive of Humans at best and appeals to "For the good of Sanghelios" principally for ending the war and establishing peace. He says nothing ABOUT putting differences aside; it's utilitarian, and his views on Humans being tools could possibly be inferred from that.

There is a difference between the two. One involves realising that those differences are not worth fighting over at all, the other realises that you cannot fight over those differences just now. The fact that Thel fails to mention this makes it seem likely that he simply doesn't give a crap. Before anyone starts talking about it ever being possible for Elites and Humans to co-exist, we should see whether or not the Arbiter actually thinks that is possible and even remotely wants that. If he doesn't then I don't imagine there's going to be very much change on Sanghelios.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
He--or anyone as I recall--never talks about regrouping to destroy humanity again.

Levu, the only supporter of Thel who the authors could be bothered to show, expressed a wish to do so given better circumstances. Oh, and Raia. She was even more vocal about it that Levu. These are the Arbiters followers here people... Hell, I may as well say all of them at this point, except Gusay maybe, because what's the purpose of saying otherwise at this point?

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
All this is right after Arbiter says the words "their are honorable humans. I fought alongside some of them." Coming from a man who just months prior saw us all as termites barely worth scraping off his boot, that's high praise.

And right before saying his sole intention is because Sanghelios needs a break; not even in part, to a small degree, because Humanity deserves a break also. What if Sanghelios didn't need a break? Would Thel bother with peace? Probably not, because he doesn't actually care ABOUT peace. He only cares for the results it will bring.

I'm pretty sure that some Grunts were considered honourable too. They are still viewed as cannon fodder. Why does his rather mediocre proclamation mean anything special when Humans are concerned when it meant nothing particularly special for the Grunts? Can he even admit that Humans on the whole are respectable people and not clandestine, Machiavellian villains rather than resorting to contrivances when outlining the concept? "There are honourable Humans" does not target the species in general, it only targets individuals (Those honourable Humans), thus it implies that Thel does not think of Humanity as being anything more than what Jul generally thinks. It seems that he just thinks that Hood can keep Humanity in check for long enough.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Seriously, where do you get these notions from?

I donno. I think there was this book released last year that dealt with post Halo 3.

  • 08.10.2012 9:21 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Seriously, where do you get these notions from?

I donno. I think there was this book released last year that dealt with post Halo 3.


Let's see... oh yeah, a goodly chunk of the lore before halo 3 timeline wise, along with other sources, stating there is a large, and growing movement of elites (and elite youth) which respects humans. Hell, one of the co-op elites in Halo 3 is directly stated to respect humans, I believe that's where the "growing movement of elite youth" comes from.

Glasslands had plenty of opportunity to show it, yet they didn't. It's not the Kaidon going "I personally want to destroy the humans, but we aren't strong enough and the peace for good movement is very strong." It's "I support peace because we can't kill all the humans... yet."

Unless you are going to say the exact same thing here as you did for visuals, which is "Since it's from bungie era, we should ignore all lore because it's irrelevant."

  • 08.10.2012 9:39 PM PDT


Posted by: Kenger Benger
It gets really confusing between the terms loyalist and separatist. Sometimes I think loyalists are the ones loyal to the prophets but sometimes I think loyalists are the ones loyal to the new Covenant run by the Elites and separatists the ones who still want to fight the humans. Which one is correct?
The Covenant in Halo 2 split. There is no new Covenant. There is simply the Covenant and those who left. When the USA separated from Britain it wasn't classified as "the New Britain". It was the USA, it's own identity. The Separatists are simply the guys who left.

There were the Loyalists, those loyal to the prophets. They consisted of: Prophets, Brutes, Drones, Jackals, and some Grunts.

The Separatists, well... separated from the Covenant. They consisted of: Elites, Hunters, and some grunts.

Groups like the Storm are other, smaller (presumably), groups with their own agenda. The Storm seems to believe in the old Forerunner religion, but perhaps distrust the prophets. It's possibly they only work with jackals because those jackals are getting paid.

The Jackals were paid a lot while they were in the Covenant; they never really believed too strongly in the Great Journey. There's a whole video about it on Waypoint.

ANYWAYS the Covenant split into TWO main groups: Separatist and Loyalist. Then each group had smaller break away groups.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 10:02 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 10:00 PM PDT
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The new "Storm" Faction is interesting, because they apparently swear allegiance to the Prophets, which is rather odd.

My conclusion

-Every Elite that served under the Arbiter at Earth, High Charity etc is still aligned with him.
-The other factions are those who were not present at the final battles and saw first hand the Prophet betrayal. This includes all Sangheliosians, and other colonies/fleets.
-The Storm are extremely powerful and exist under opposition to the Arbiter, due into already inter state rivalry on Sanghelios.
-They have bad equipment and have to do pirate actions. Jackals as a result are attracted by this. Only some Jackals.
-The rest of the Covenant species split between the factions.
-ONI will -blam!- up and spark the flame for war again.

  • 08.11.2012 12:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

This is more what I was talking about. Humanity got the short straw in the war, and there's 17,000 of us on Infinity; relations on the individual level aren't the best, which would quickly escalate. Arbiter and Rtas, along with the higher ups in their clans, might be comfortable with us, but no one can account for individuals.

Especially on the most important piece of technology humanity has.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Water Beetle
Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.


Only, as I recall, He didn't see that friendly toward Humans.

And a number of his followers wanted peace just to build up strength so they could wipe out humanity.

Remember, Glasslands has the "growing numbers of elite youth who respect humanity" wiped out apparently.


No he doesn't. All he says in his speech is that they need to put aside their differences, put aside their warrior ways, to rebuild, that any war, no matter with whom, would be suicide for them. He--or anyone as I recall--never talks about regrouping to destroy humanity again. All this is right after Arbiter says the words "their are honorable humans. I fought alongside some of them." Coming from a man who just months prior saw us all as termites barely worth scraping off his boot, that's high praise.

Seriously, where do you get these notions from?




You are generalizing and leaving out the fact some elites do indeed want relations with us at-least pre-Glasslands. I am trying to understand what Damage a young elite with no technological understanding,combat record, or motives could do on a ship filled with humans (and spartans) far away from sanghelios.

Having about a hundred or so elites tops wouldn't be an issue and would certainly show the desire for relations to improve.

Might need to source where it said The infinity was the best thing we have seeing as Karen could pull something else out of her as, like the forerunner ships on onyx.


----------------------------------------

Where did you see that roberto?



Posted by: ROBERTO jh

More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.



It will never be "too soon" for ingratiation seeing as the fast the elites so effort in repenting the better the races will get along. Halo 3 brought up that the younger generation of Elites do not mind humanity and working for them. Having a few hundred or dozens elites aboard the infinity would help ease the peace even though i know there aren't any aboard.


Did you seriously just compare the elites to N@zi's Roberto? The key difference in that is majority of the N@zis knew exactly what they were doing while the elites did not. The N@zis have no issue reverse engineering and understanding technologies while the elites have issues. Judging from that statement i assume you love Glasslands Mr.Travis.

  • 08.11.2012 5:15 AM PDT

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