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Subject: The Post War Covenant

Grunt Beats Everthing

There is theory, that "Storm Covenant" are old Covenant, but they don't know about Great Schism.

  • 08.11.2012 5:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Jonyxer
There is theory, that "Storm Covenant" are old Covenant, but they don't know about Great Schism.


That theory is an uneducated one.

  • 08.11.2012 5:24 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

This is more what I was talking about. Humanity got the short straw in the war, and there's 17,000 of us on Infinity; relations on the individual level aren't the best, which would quickly escalate. Arbiter and Rtas, along with the higher ups in their clans, might be comfortable with us, but no one can account for individuals.

Especially on the most important piece of technology humanity has.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Water Beetle
Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.


Only, as I recall, He didn't see that friendly toward Humans.

And a number of his followers wanted peace just to build up strength so they could wipe out humanity.

Remember, Glasslands has the "growing numbers of elite youth who respect humanity" wiped out apparently.


No he doesn't. All he says in his speech is that they need to put aside their differences, put aside their warrior ways, to rebuild, that any war, no matter with whom, would be suicide for them. He--or anyone as I recall--never talks about regrouping to destroy humanity again. All this is right after Arbiter says the words "their are honorable humans. I fought alongside some of them." Coming from a man who just months prior saw us all as termites barely worth scraping off his boot, that's high praise.

Seriously, where do you get these notions from?




You are generalizing and leaving out the fact some elites do indeed want relations with us at-least pre-Glasslands. I am trying to understand what Damage a young elite with no technological understanding,combat record, or motives could do on a ship filled with humans (and spartans) far away from sanghelios.

Having about a hundred or so elites tops wouldn't be an issue and would certainly show the desire for relations to improve.

Might need to source where it said The infinity was the best thing we have seeing as Karen could pull something else out of her as, like the forerunner ships on onyx.


----------------------------------------

Where did you see that roberto?



Posted by: ROBERTO jh

More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.



It will never be "too soon" for ingratiation seeing as the fast the elites so effort in repenting the better the races will get along. Halo 3 brought up that the younger generation of Elites do not mind humanity and working for them. Having a few hundred or dozens elites aboard the infinity would help ease the peace even though i know there aren't any aboard.


Did you seriously just compare the elites to N@zi's Roberto? The key difference in that is majority of the N@zis knew exactly what they were doing while the elites did not. The N@zis have no issue reverse engineering and understanding technologies while the elites have issues. Judging from that statement i assume you love Glasslands Mr.Travis.
The entire purpose of the UNSC-Separatist alliance was to beat the Prophets. It was forged out of necessity.

The Elites aren't a hive mind, some don't mind humans and others hate them. After a decades long war, things are not going to change overnight. The alliance was based on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend concept". Not "hey guys let's be pals". While it IS TRUE that some Elites don't mind humans, I don't think there are too many. Even during the end of the war, it seemed like Humans and Elites operated separately. During the level "the Covenant" there were three towers and three teams. One team was ALL Elites. They probably didn't feel comfortable directly working with humans just yet.

Hell the Soviet Union and the USA had tense relations and they were allies against N@zi Germany. You could see the UNSC as the USA, the Separatists as the Soviet Union, and the Covenant Loyalists as N@zi Germany. Only reason Russia and the USA didn't go into a full out war was because each side needed time to rebuild (sounds like Earth and Sanghelios). However the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, which may or may not happen with the Sangheili (they are all warriors, they don't have many engineers, farmers, doctors, etc).

Also the Infinity is a human ship. You need to consider how humanity will feel. Humans just survived a genocidal war. The aliens know the location of our home planet, and a good chunk of our colonies. They have better technology and after the war, probably more soldiers. We need a trump card, something that could give is a fighting chance. Spartans were fine and dandy, but we almost always lost the space battles. We needed something to win that front, and Humanity came up with the Infinity. I doubt ONI wants the Elites knowing our trump card inside out. Same way the USA didn't want the Soviet Union to obtain the plans for the Atmoic bomb.

Basically after a genocidal war, relationships are obviously still going to be tense. Expecting humanity to forgive the Elites for the geonicde so quickly is like expecting the Elites to forgive the Brutes after their attempted geonicde during the Great Schism.

It won't happen very quickly. Maybe a few years after Halo 4, who knows.

  • 08.11.2012 10:50 AM PDT


Posted by: Jonyxer
There is theory, that "Storm Covenant" are old Covenant, but they don't know about Great Schism.
I'm pretty sure by now (4 years after the great schism) they would have found out.

As far as I know, the Storm still worship Forerunners but I don't know if they are still loyal to the prophets.

  • 08.11.2012 10:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

This is more what I was talking about. Humanity got the short straw in the war, and there's 17,000 of us on Infinity; relations on the individual level aren't the best, which would quickly escalate. Arbiter and Rtas, along with the higher ups in their clans, might be comfortable with us, but no one can account for individuals.

Especially on the most important piece of technology humanity has.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Water Beetle
Maybe, but I'm willing to bet that the arbiter and his followers have actually bonded with humanity a bit, not just agreed not to shoot them. He and Master Chief undoubtedly grew on each other a bit, especially during the last mission of Halo 3, and in Glasslands, Arbiter is heard saying that there are honourable humans, and he defends them. I'm sure that the arbiters people could be trusted not to harm anyone on the Infinity.


Only, as I recall, He didn't see that friendly toward Humans.

And a number of his followers wanted peace just to build up strength so they could wipe out humanity.

Remember, Glasslands has the "growing numbers of elite youth who respect humanity" wiped out apparently.


No he doesn't. All he says in his speech is that they need to put aside their differences, put aside their warrior ways, to rebuild, that any war, no matter with whom, would be suicide for them. He--or anyone as I recall--never talks about regrouping to destroy humanity again. All this is right after Arbiter says the words "their are honorable humans. I fought alongside some of them." Coming from a man who just months prior saw us all as termites barely worth scraping off his boot, that's high praise.

Seriously, where do you get these notions from?




You are generalizing and leaving out the fact some elites do indeed want relations with us at-least pre-Glasslands. I am trying to understand what Damage a young elite with no technological understanding,combat record, or motives could do on a ship filled with humans (and spartans) far away from sanghelios.

Having about a hundred or so elites tops wouldn't be an issue and would certainly show the desire for relations to improve.

Might need to source where it said The infinity was the best thing we have seeing as Karen could pull something else out of her as, like the forerunner ships on onyx.


----------------------------------------

Where did you see that roberto?



Posted by: ROBERTO jh

More as slaves then willing servants, it seems. And I doubt they'll let Elites onboard Infinity, it's too soon for that. It'd be like allowing former N@zis access to the atom bomb right after the Nuremberg trials got over with.

There may be a formal peace agreement between the dominant Elite government and the UNSC, but that's just official. There will be lasting mistrust between the two for a while. Perhaps the trilogy will focus on how their relations grow, but for now, they've just agreed they'll not shoot each other.



It will never be "too soon" for ingratiation seeing as the fast the elites so effort in repenting the better the races will get along. Halo 3 brought up that the younger generation of Elites do not mind humanity and working for them. Having a few hundred or dozens elites aboard the infinity would help ease the peace even though i know there aren't any aboard.


Did you seriously just compare the elites to N@zi's Roberto? The key difference in that is majority of the N@zis knew exactly what they were doing while the elites did not. The N@zis have no issue reverse engineering and understanding technologies while the elites have issues. Judging from that statement i assume you love Glasslands Mr.Travis.
The entire purpose of the UNSC-Separatist alliance was to beat the Prophets. It was forged out of necessity.

The Elites aren't a hive mind, some don't mind humans and others hate them. After a decades long war, things are not going to change overnight. The alliance was based on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend concept". Not "hey guys let's be pals". While it IS TRUE that some Elites don't mind humans, I don't think there are too many. Even during the end of the war, it seemed like Humans and Elites operated separately. During the level "the Covenant" there were three towers and three teams. One team was ALL Elites. They probably didn't feel comfortable directly working with humans just yet.

Hell the Soviet Union and the USA had tense relations and they were allies against N@zi Germany. You could see the UNSC as the USA, the Separatists as the Soviet Union, and the Covenant Loyalists as N@zi Germany. Only reason Russia and the USA didn't go into a full out war was because each side needed time to rebuild (sounds like Earth and Sanghelios). However the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, which may or may not happen with the Sangheili (they are all warriors, they don't have many engineers, farmers, doctors, etc).

Also the Infinity is a human ship. You need to consider how humanity will feel. Humans just survived a genocidal war. The aliens know the location of our home planet, and a good chunk of our colonies. They have better technology and after the war, probably more soldiers. We need a trump card, something that could give is a fighting chance. Spartans were fine and dandy, but we almost always lost the space battles. We needed something to win that front, and Humanity came up with the Infinity. I doubt ONI wants the Elites knowing our trump card inside out. Same way the USA didn't want the Soviet Union to obtain the plans for the Atmoic bomb.

Basically after a genocidal war, relationships are obviously still going to be tense. Expecting humanity to forgive the Elites for the geonicde so quickly is like expecting the Elites to forgive the Brutes after their attempted geonicde during the Great Schism.

It won't happen very quickly. Maybe a few years after Halo 4, who knows.



We all very well know that bungie was intended to actually make an alliance between the to instead of this crap Karen created. Hell, one of the arbiters lines even mentions "a new covenant" and i don't think he meant "well will still be the covenant just without San Shyuum".

All of this again is according to Glasslands not the original direction which is what i was referring to regardless of its non canon state now. Please don't tell me you are referring to the cold war because that was not the reason the two nations didn't outright fight each other.


I don't need to consider anything since i obviously understand the situation that we have been looking at for three years now. In my post i clearly recognized that no elites are on the ship and only stated that if somewhere allowed it would be a start. The UNSC's side is fully justified it is this new "For Sanghelios" attitude the elites have that is messing everything up seeing as they should be busting ass to make up to the humans since they are an "honorable" race.

The Covenant Didn't have many locations on their map seeing as many of them were left in tact and some of them don't even know about the war. Having better technology is pointless if you don't understand it which is why the UNSC is now top dog despite the covenant being around for roughly 3 eons.
Please don't tell me you honestly think that idiotic project is a "Trump card". That single ship wouldn't have been able to take on High charity and it's fleet, hell they didn't even attempt to us it to save earth. So clearly it wasn't a "trump card" if they didn't use it when they actually needed to.

You could show the elites how to TIG weld and it would still take them decades to master it and fully apply it. The Elites are in no way a threat to to UNSC since they don't even have a walmart. Hence why the elites are freaking out thinking the UNSC will wipe them out since they are so weak and weaker.


Did i ever say anything about forgiving anybody?no i did not.

  • 08.11.2012 3:02 PM PDT

I like to try re-railing derailed threads.

I think it would be cool if the main covenant showed up. If they arent still around its because the Brutes went to do whatever the hell they wanted, the prophets died out, grunts rebelled, jackals didnt get paid, hunters went home, and drones didnt care.

  • 08.11.2012 3:14 PM PDT

Posted by: grey101
Posted by: Spartan1995324
Posted by: grey101
It will never be "too soon" for ingratiation seeing as the fast the elites so effort in repenting the better the races will get along. Halo 3 brought up that the younger generation of Elites do not mind humanity and working for them. Having a few hundred or dozens elites aboard the infinity would help ease the peace even though i know there aren't any aboard.

Did you seriously just compare the elites to N@zi's Roberto? The key difference in that is majority of the N@zis knew exactly what they were doing while the elites did not. The N@zis have no issue reverse engineering and understanding technologies while the elites have issues. Judging from that statement i assume you love Glasslands Mr.Travis.
The entire purpose of the UNSC-Separatist alliance was to beat the Prophets. It was forged out of necessity.

The Elites aren't a hive mind, some don't mind humans and others hate them. After a decades long war, things are not going to change overnight. The alliance was based on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend concept". Not "hey guys let's be pals". While it IS TRUE that some Elites don't mind humans, I don't think there are too many. Even during the end of the war, it seemed like Humans and Elites operated separately. During the level "the Covenant" there were three towers and three teams. One team was ALL Elites. They probably didn't feel comfortable directly working with humans just yet.

Hell the Soviet Union and the USA had tense relations and they were allies against N@zi Germany. You could see the UNSC as the USA, the Separatists as the Soviet Union, and the Covenant Loyalists as N@zi Germany. Only reason Russia and the USA didn't go into a full out war was because each side needed time to rebuild (sounds like Earth and Sanghelios). However the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, which may or may not happen with the Sangheili (they are all warriors, they don't have many engineers, farmers, doctors, etc).

Also the Infinity is a human ship. You need to consider how humanity will feel. Humans just survived a genocidal war. The aliens know the location of our home planet, and a good chunk of our colonies. They have better technology and after the war, probably more soldiers. We need a trump card, something that could give is a fighting chance. Spartans were fine and dandy, but we almost always lost the space battles. We needed something to win that front, and Humanity came up with the Infinity. I doubt ONI wants the Elites knowing our trump card inside out. Same way the USA didn't want the Soviet Union to obtain the plans for the Atmoic bomb.

Basically after a genocidal war, relationships are obviously still going to be tense. Expecting humanity to forgive the Elites for the geonicde so quickly is like expecting the Elites to forgive the Brutes after their attempted geonicde during the Great Schism.

It won't happen very quickly. Maybe a few years after Halo 4, who knows.
We all very well know that bungie was intended to actually make an alliance between the to instead of this crap Karen created. Hell, one of the arbiters lines even mentions "a new covenant" and i don't think he meant "well will still be the covenant just without San Shyuum".

All of this again is according to Glasslands not the original direction which is what i was referring to regardless of its non canon state now. Please don't tell me you are referring to the cold war because that was not the reason the two nations didn't outright fight each other.

I don't need to consider anything since i obviously understand the situation that we have been looking at for three years now. In my post i clearly recognized that no elites are on the ship and only stated that if somewhere allowed it would be a start. The UNSC's side is fully justified it is this new "For Sanghelios" attitude the elites have that is messing everything up seeing as they should be busting ass to make up to the humans since they are an "honorable" race.

The Covenant Didn't have many locations on their map seeing as many of them were left in tact and some of them don't even know about the war. Having better technology is pointless if you don't understand it which is why the UNSC is now top dog despite the covenant being around for roughly 3 eons.
Please don't tell me you honestly think that idiotic project is a "Trump card". That single ship wouldn't have been able to take on High charity and it's fleet, hell they didn't even attempt to us it to save earth. So clearly it wasn't a "trump card" if they didn't use it when they actually needed to.

You could show the elites how to TIG weld and it would still take them decades to master it and fully apply it. The Elites are in no way a threat to to UNSC since they don't even have a walmart. Hence why the elites are freaking out thinking the UNSC will wipe them out since they are so weak and weaker.

Did i ever say anything about forgiving anybody?no i did not.
If nobody forgives anybody, relations will still be tense. The Elites forged the alliance out of PURE NECESSITY. They wanted to beat the Prophets. It may or may not have been Bungie's intent to bring Humans and Eltes closer together, but the fact is now we have to deal with the Glasslands situation. Glasslands is part of canon now, regardless of what Bungie intended. To dismiss Glasslands is childish. We need to accept the new situation.

It doesn't matter if you recognized that there are no Elites on the ship. What I am saying is that things are still simply too tense for that. Both sides need to wait for things to cool down between them.

Anyways, the Infinity is probably the first step into a new line of war ships. However I do agree that it should have been used during the attack on Earth.

If the UNSC's side is justified, then it is obvious why there are no Elites on the Infinity. Humans don't want them there. The war is still too fresh.

It would be a good gesture but simply put Humans don't want the Elites on the ship.

  • 08.11.2012 6:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

You do understand that humans will probably never be able to ascertain ]why[/b] the war started; therefore the elites will never be "forgiven" and according to your logic there will forever be tension between the two races.

Humanity doesn't need to forgive the elites but rather accept what happened. You aren't getting how it was originally and what it was now, which is the main point in my posts.Did i ever dismiss Glasslands? Clearly i didn't since i referenced it and acknowledged what happened in the novel.


It actually does matter since you are speaking to me as if a am incompetent and do not understand why the tension is there. As it will always be since the Elites will never look a human in the eye and say "we were wrong". Had any elite done that and actively tried partaking in human affairs then you would see join operations such as and no limited to elites in the infinity.


The Human perspective is justified because majority of humans are not pragmatic and will not move on from such an event.We were the victims therefore it is justified that we wouldn't want to extend arms to those that saw us a roaches yesterday. Which is why the "honorable" Elites should be stepping up and actually living up to how their race is described instead of making pathetic excuses and blaming humanity for their current situation.

  • 08.11.2012 8:06 PM PDT

First of all, I am not talking to you as if you were incompetent. That wasn't my intention.

Secondly, for the Elites to get on the Infinity, that depends entirely on the humans not them.

  • 08.11.2012 9:24 PM PDT
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I'm pretty sure the Prophets are all dead. Their homeworld was lost when its star/sun died and High Charity was destroyed in Halo 3. Any San Shyuum that hadn't already died by the end of Halo 2 were definitely gone by the end of Halo 3.

  • 08.11.2012 9:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I'm pretty sure the Prophets are all dead. Their homeworld was lost when its star/sun died and High Charity was destroyed in Halo 3. Any San Shyuum that hadn't already died by the end of Halo 2 were definitely gone by the end of Halo 3.


Not all the remaining prophets were on High Charity, many were throughout the fleets.

However, post halo 2 the remaining ones all went into hiding. They may still be around but they won't be poking their heads out.

  • 08.11.2012 11:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Spartan1995324
First of all, I am not talking to you as if you were incompetent. That wasn't my intention.

Secondly, for the Elites to get on the Infinity, that depends entirely on the humans not them.


It isn't helping that the elites aren't doing anything to try showing they are gravely sorry for what they did which is the entire point of my post that you constantly keep ignoring.

  • 08.12.2012 5:50 AM PDT

This sig will Self-Destruct in 3.... 2.... 1.... Thank you for your time. Cookie?

After reading through a quick synopsis of Glasslands, I agree with the fact that the Elites and the Humans definitely won't be buddy-buddy with each other in Halo 4. Obviously, there's still some lasting stigma from the war, and some old feelings die hard. Even if Thel and Rtas are in favor of a lasting peace, Elites are as stubborn as they are outspoken, so there won't be exactly a unified front from Sanghelios for a while now.

Besides, I would imagine that most of the Covenant would be returning to their respective home planets rather than staying around as a lasting military. The Jackals were hired guns and the Hunters and Drones were enslaved, iirc. I imagine that maybe the Elites took possession of the Hunters following the dissolution of the Covenant, and the Grunts might still stick around the Elites if they haven't already left entirely, but I can't imagine any other members of the Covenant having any lasting military presence aside from Jackal pirates and mercenaries.

  • 08.12.2012 8:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The Elites were the only race that actually invested in the great journey, the other races just went for the ride so they wouldn't be exterminated.

  • 08.12.2012 8:56 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Spartan1995324
First of all, I am not talking to you as if you were incompetent. That wasn't my intention.

Secondly, for the Elites to get on the Infinity, that depends entirely on the humans not them.


It isn't helping that the elites aren't doing anything to try showing they are gravely sorry for what they did which is the entire point of my post that you constantly keep ignoring.
It wouldn't matter even if they did because humans, as the victims, would still be wary of them. You don't go from being enemies to pals overnight. Things are indeed "too soon", because it will take humans a while to recover and put the Great War behind them.

  • 08.12.2012 9:03 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
The Elites were the only race that actually invested in the great journey, the other races just went for the ride so they wouldn't be exterminated.
The Brutes were actually quite firm believers after they converted. The Grunts had their culture pretty much destroyed by the Covenant so the Covenant religion was the closest thing to a culture they had. However I don't think the Grunts were too eager to advance the Prophets' agenda.

  • 08.12.2012 9:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Spartan1995324
First of all, I am not talking to you as if you were incompetent. That wasn't my intention.

Secondly, for the Elites to get on the Infinity, that depends entirely on the humans not them.


It isn't helping that the elites aren't doing anything to try showing they are gravely sorry for what they did which is the entire point of my post that you constantly keep ignoring.
It wouldn't matter even if they did because humans, as the victims, would still be wary of them. You don't go from being enemies to pals overnight. Things are indeed "too soon", because it will take humans a while to recover and put the Great War behind them.


Wary but at least they would have some indication that the elites are trying to repent and that is all we need to see. I didn't say anything about being pals and it is never too soon to start seeing as humans will not drop the event for at least 500 years if not a thousand.



Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: grey101
The Elites were the only race that actually invested in the great journey, the other races just went for the ride so they wouldn't be exterminated.
The Brutes were actually quite firm believers after they converted. The Grunts had their culture pretty much destroyed by the Covenant so the Covenant religion was the closest thing to a culture they had. However I don't think the Grunts were too eager to advance the Prophets' agenda.



It was shown in "Heels of a fuss" only some brute tribes believed while others saw it as complete garbage. The Grunts "had their culture destroyed" because of over industrializing their own planet. The Grunts only followed because (like other races) they would have been exterminated if they didn't.

[Edited on 08.12.2012 9:57 AM PDT]

  • 08.12.2012 9:55 AM PDT

My honor student can beat up your honor student.

I'm sure the Loyalists will show up at some point; when things get out of hand on Requiem and begin to spread off the planet, they are bound to showup in some manner (maybe Halo 5/6).

  • 08.12.2012 10:24 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Spartan1995324
First of all, I am not talking to you as if you were incompetent. That wasn't my intention.

Secondly, for the Elites to get on the Infinity, that depends entirely on the humans not them.


It isn't helping that the elites aren't doing anything to try showing they are gravely sorry for what they did which is the entire point of my post that you constantly keep ignoring.
It wouldn't matter even if they did because humans, as the victims, would still be wary of them. You don't go from being enemies to pals overnight. Things are indeed "too soon", because it will take humans a while to recover and put the Great War behind them.


Wary but at least they would have some indication that the elites are trying to repent and that is all we need to see. I didn't say anything about being pals and it is never too soon to start seeing as humans will not drop the event for at least 500 years if not a thousand.

Posted by: Spartan1995324

Posted by: grey101
The Elites were the only race that actually invested in the great journey, the other races just went for the ride so they wouldn't be exterminated.
The Brutes were actually quite firm believers after they converted. The Grunts had their culture pretty much destroyed by the Covenant so the Covenant religion was the closest thing to a culture they had. However I don't think the Grunts were too eager to advance the Prophets' agenda.


It was shown in "Heels of a fuss" only some brute tribes believed while others saw it as complete garbage. The Grunts "had their culture destroyed" because of over industrializing their own planet. The Grunts only followed because (like other races) they would have been exterminated if they didn't.

1) It might help it relations ultimately depend on the humans. The Elites have a point in wanting to eliminate them. This species almost singlehanded wore down the Covenant. On top of that, the Elites know that the humans are probably wary of them. Basically some Elites want to attack the humans before the humans attack them. They think that humanity will want to wipe out the species that posed such a threat to them.

I'd be interested to see what the other Covenant species thought.

2) The Brutes that do believe in the Great Journey are very firm believes. Halopedia is where I got this.
Brutes are extremely zealous creatures, known for their willingness to cling to ancient, bloody traditions and their unwavering belief in the words of the Prophets and in the promise of the Great Journey. Their home world is war-torn, and Brutes are known for their particular joy in vicious activities, complimented by regimented discipline.

  • 08.12.2012 10:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

That Logic is the reason for this mess seeing as the humans just want to be left alone (as they always have) while the elites (a war culture) are making it out as if we have the intention of decimating them for what they did to us. The Elites are the problem and they could be the solution but chose not to be.


Halopedian isn't a source for any information. I got my statement directly from halo evolutions "Stomping on a heel of a fuss" in which certain tribes of brutes follow the religion where others see the BS in it and wish to grow on their own terms.

  • 08.12.2012 10:55 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
That Logic is the reason for this mess seeing as the humans just want to be left alone (as they always have) while the elites (a war culture) are making it out as if we have the intention of decimating them for what they did to us. The Elites are the problem and they could be the solution but chose not to be.

Halopedian isn't a source for any information. I got my statement directly from halo evolutions "Stomping on a heel of a fuss" in which certain tribes of brutes follow the religion where others see the BS in it and wish to grow on their own terms.
We both know humans are quite the war mongering species... If it wasn't for the Covenant the UNSC and Insurrectionsit war would have gotten even more intense. While the Covenant did jump the gun, and waged war on us for no reason, Humans by no means are peaceful. We wanted to be left alone because we were getting our asses kicked.

Some Brutes do indeed follow the Prophets' religion and believe in it. To say ONLY the Elites believed or "invested" in it is wrong. Other Covenant species believed in it. No species is a hive mind (minus the Drones) and has individuals who either will or will not believe in the Covenant's religion.

  • 08.12.2012 11:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

How is humanity a "war mongering species" when they had 300 years of peace until the innies decided to be irrational terrorist? Humanity as a whole is a peaceful race until disturbed after that it is hard for us to let go- that is our mentality.
We wanted the covenant to leave us alone because we had no intention to fight with the first alien races we encountered rather than learn from them and live together.

Religion applies to the brutes because of their savagery "kill you in the name of god" fits in perfectly with them. The grunts only believed due to their low status and the threat of extermination, we know very clearly that the lekgolo only joined because Te was to be glassed and give enough troops to the covenant to be left alone, Drones followed because they saw the San Shyuum as "queens", jackals were getting paid, and the engineers didn't care.


Yes, individuals that were part of the covenant probably did believed in it seeing as 3,000 years of indoctrination will do that. But to say said indivdiuals and then the civilian populations on their homeworlds also followed is false since we know that wasn't the case from the fiction established.

  • 08.12.2012 11:21 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan1995324
The entire purpose of the UNSC-Separatist alliance was to beat the Prophets. It was forged out of necessity.

That doesn't mean that they must wage war after the purpose of the alliance is dealt with.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
The Elites aren't a hive mind, some don't mind humans and others hate them. After a decades long war, things are not going to change overnight. The alliance was based on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend concept". Not "hey guys let's be pals". While it IS TRUE that some Elites don't mind humans, I don't think there are too many. Even during the end of the war, it seemed like Humans and Elites operated separately. During the level "the Covenant" there were three towers and three teams. One team was ALL Elites. They probably didn't feel comfortable directly working with humans just yet.

I think that most Elites (I.e. The ones living on Sanghelios and throughout the colonies not really in any sort of direct contact with the war) would likely have been indifferent towards Humanity even when the war was being raged, as in having no strong opinion about them. Kershaw once said that the road to Auschwitz was built with hatred but paved with indifference. Very little people in the general populace either cared or cared enough to say or do something about it. They are only being told to hate someone who they don't know in any way, and who have no impact on them in their everyday lives whatsoever. Additionally, these people can only really go along with the authorities and thus the crowd, so there isn't really much incentive for choice in the matter. There's not even any prior reasoning or build up to the H-C war like there was for something like the Holocaust though, however flawed it was. The Jews were the subject of vile propaganda and were used as scapegoats for years before WWII. With the H-C the Prophets literally just announced one day "Kill Humans". That's it. They just dropped it on the Covenant populace. This is also ignoring the spreading influence of those who had fought Humans and questioned the war's very nature because of that, and those who got sick of it dragging out for vague and unclear reasons without any sort of substantial proof other than the word of 3 people.

Yet, most Elites are frothing at the mouth village idiots who HATE Humans. I'm sorry, but given the circumstances of the Human-Covenant war, I find that slightly ridiculous, especially for a race as smart as the Elites.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
Hell the Soviet Union and the USA had tense relations and they were allies against N@zi Germany. You could see the UNSC as the USA, the Separatists as the Soviet Union, and the Covenant Loyalists as N@zi Germany. Only reason Russia and the USA didn't go into a full out war was because each side needed time to rebuild (sounds like Earth and Sanghelios). However the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, which may or may not happen with the Sangheili (they are all warriors, they don't have many engineers, farmers, doctors, etc).

I'm curious, but in what way are the factors that lead to the Cold War similar to the situation that we have post Halo 3?

[Edited on 08.12.2012 12:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.12.2012 12:14 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
How is humanity a "war mongering species" when they had 300 years of peace until the innies decided to be irrational terrorist? Humanity as a whole is a peaceful race until disturbed after that it is hard for us to let go- that is our mentality.
We wanted the covenant to leave us alone because we had no intention to fight with the first alien races we encountered rather than learn from them and live together.

Religion applies to the brutes because of their savagery "kill you in the name of god" fits in perfectly with them. The grunts only believed due to their low status and the threat of extermination, we know very clearly that the lekgolo only joined because Te was to be glassed and give enough troops to the covenant to be left alone, Drones followed because they saw the San Shyuum as "queens", jackals were getting paid, and the engineers didn't care.


Yes, individuals that were part of the covenant probably did believed in it seeing as 3,000 years of indoctrination will do that. But to say said indivdiuals and then the civilian populations on their homeworlds also followed is false since we know that wasn't the case from the fiction established.
I never said ALL members of each species believed in the religion.

The only point I was trying to make was the Elites were not the ONLY race that believe it. Which is what you said earlier.

  • 08.12.2012 1:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The Elites were the only race as a majority believed in the great journey. A few brute packs doesn't fit with the billions of elites that have been taught over the eons.

  • 08.12.2012 2:06 PM PDT

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