Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Post War Covenant
  • Subject: The Post War Covenant
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: The Post War Covenant


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan1995324
The entire purpose of the UNSC-Separatist alliance was to beat the Prophets. It was forged out of necessity.

That doesn't mean that they must wage war after the purpose of the alliance is dealt with.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
The Elites aren't a hive mind, some don't mind humans and others hate them. After a decades long war, things are not going to change overnight. The alliance was based on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend concept". Not "hey guys let's be pals". While it IS TRUE that some Elites don't mind humans, I don't think there are too many. Even during the end of the war, it seemed like Humans and Elites operated separately. During the level "the Covenant" there were three towers and three teams. One team was ALL Elites. They probably didn't feel comfortable directly working with humans just yet.

I think that most Elites (I.e. The ones living on Sanghelios and throughout the colonies not really in any sort of direct contact with the war) would likely have been indifferent towards Humanity even when the war was being raged, as in having no strong opinion about them. Kershaw once said that the road to Auschwitz was built with hatred but paved with indifference. Very little people in the general populace either cared or cared enough to say or do something about it. They are only being told to hate someone who they don't know in any way, and who have no impact on them in their everyday lives whatsoever. Additionally, these people can only really go along with the authorities and thus the crowd, so there isn't really much incentive for choice in the matter. There's not even any prior reasoning or build up to the H-C war like there was for something like the Holocaust though, however flawed it was. The Jews were the subject of vile propaganda and were used as scapegoats for years before WWII. With the H-C the Prophets literally just announced one day "Kill Humans". That's it. They just dropped it on the Covenant populace. This is also ignoring the spreading influence of those who had fought Humans and questioned the war's very nature because of that, and those who got sick of it dragging out for vague and unclear reasons without any sort of substantial proof other than the word of 3 people.

Yet, most Elites are frothing at the mouth village idiots who HATE Humans. I'm sorry, but given the circumstances of the Human-Covenant war, I find that slightly ridiculous, especially for a race as smart as the Elites.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
Hell the Soviet Union and the USA had tense relations and they were allies against N@zi Germany. You could see the UNSC as the USA, the Separatists as the Soviet Union, and the Covenant Loyalists as N@zi Germany. Only reason Russia and the USA didn't go into a full out war was because each side needed time to rebuild (sounds like Earth and Sanghelios). However the Soviet Union eventually collapsed, which may or may not happen with the Sangheili (they are all warriors, they don't have many engineers, farmers, doctors, etc).

I'm curious, but in what way are the factors that lead to the Cold War similar to the situation that we have post Halo 3?

1) No but it wasn't built the intention is being friends.

2) I think the Elites as you said don't care enough. While I do find the Xenophobic attitude strange (they don't seem to be in quite a hurry to elminate the Brutes) it is the situation we have to deal with.

It SHOULDN'T be that way, but it is. The fact now is that the Elites seem to be listening to these individuals who hate humans, for whatever reason. The entire Covenant-Human war was started because of a hatred of humans. I don't see why they are making the same mistake twice, but the fact is they are.

3) The Cold War analogy was a bad one. The only parallels to draw from that is how the UNSC and the Separatists joined forces to defeat the Covenant Loyalists. Much like how the USA and the Soviet Union were allies against N@zi Germany.

Then relations between the Soviet Union and the USA became tense, much like how the UNSC and Elites now have tense relations.

  • 08.12.2012 2:07 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
The Elites were the only race as a majority believed in the great journey. A few brute packs doesn't fit with the billions of elites that have been taught over the eons.
The only race as a majority is different than the ONLY race. Saying they are the only race implies that no one from the other races believe at all.

If you had made that clear from the beginning, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. My point was simply that there were beings besides Elites who believed in the Great Journey.

  • 08.12.2012 2:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

*Sigh* my stance hasn't changed i just worded it differently.

GoO,CtH and the halopedia (encyclopedia) state the Lekgolo were indifferent towards the religion and just supplied troops.

We know the jackals were never fully forced in because they ran to the asteroid belts and are paid for their service.

Grunts only "believe" because they are pretty much slaves and have hardly any decisions or free will.

Drones follow the prophets because they see them as queens it has been mentioned that they have and follow their own gods (evolution IIRC)

Brutes have only been in the covenant for 35 years and only believe because the idea of killing things that don't listen to them fits in with their mentality.

The Elites were the only race to believe with a full heart and devote themselves so much so to the cause.

  • 08.12.2012 2:17 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
*Sigh* my stance hasn't changed i just worded it differently.

GoO,CtH and the halopedia (encyclopedia) state the Lekgolo were indifferent towards the religion and just supplied troops.

We know the jackals were never fully forced in because they ran to the asteroid belts and are paid for their service.

Grunts only "believe" because they are pretty much slaves and have hardly any decisions or free will.

Drones follow the prophets because they see them as queens it has been mentioned that they have and follow their own gods (evolution IIRC)

Brutes have only been in the covenant for 35 years and only believe because the idea of killing things that don't listen to them fits in with their mentality.

The Elites were the only race to believe with a full heart and devote themselves so much so to the cause.
So about the Brutes... Why does Maccabeus know so much about the Covenant history? He performs sermons In Contact Harvest.

As soon as ONE member of another species believes, Elites are no longer the ONLY species to believe, because there is a minority of another species to believe no matter how small.

  • 08.12.2012 2:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I don't see how not being ignorant somehow supports the case point you are trying to make.

Believing something because there is a gun to your head isn't the same as willfully believing and investing.

  • 08.12.2012 2:30 PM PDT

The thing is some Brutes truly do believe. They are rising through the ranks, they aren't really enslaved when they are being treated better than older client races like the Grunts. If brutes like Maccabeaus didn't truly believe, I don't see why he would hold sermons.

Also in the English language, when you say only it means that it is just that one thing you specify. It can include no others. By saying there are only elites who believe, it means there can be no other members of other species who believe.

It's like saying only children believe in Santa. That sentence means that children believe in Santa, no one else. However as soon as one adult believes in Santa (for whatever reason) then children are no longer the only ones who believe. Then the statement "only children believe in Santa" is false.

However on the topic of Brutes (and this is getting off topic) I think they'll show up again. If not for religious reasons, then simply to wage war on the Elites. In Evolutions it was stated by the shipmaster on Kholo (I believe) that the Elites and Brutes had been at war for a while. Six years after the Great Schism I believe (it's been a whole since I last read evolutions).

  • 08.12.2012 2:44 PM PDT

Epic Pic

Sup everyone, I'm Josh~ I'm co-founder of Epic Pic, which used to be one of the largest and most successful screenshot group on Bungie.net.


Posted by: Sandtrap
The Elite separatists waged war on the Brutes, and it's likely they are in no fit shape to do anything at this point. The prophets are no longer around, they fled their command and retreated into a dark part of the galaxy. All in all, just about every race is burnt out at this point.

But in all honesty I'd like to see "regular" Covenant again. We know there's a faction of Elites that abides the peace treaty set up, and it's been shown before that jackals worked with humans, and shown again in Glasslands. I'm more curious as to what happened to some of the other races like drones and hunters.

  • 08.12.2012 8:29 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan1995324
1) No but it wasn't built the intention is being friends.

True, but relationships are dynamic things and prone to change over time. The Elites with Thel would have surely changed in their perception of Humanity like Rtas did. Friends is too strong a word for what I was thinking. More like respected acquaintances or something.

Posted by: Spartan1995324
3) The Cold War analogy was a bad one. The only parallels to draw from that is how the UNSC and the Separatists joined forces to defeat the Covenant Loyalists. Much like how the USA and the Soviet Union were allies against N@zi Germany.

Then relations between the Soviet Union and the USA became tense, much like how the UNSC and Elites now have tense relations.

I think the reasons for the hostilities between the USA and USSR are completely different from the scenario we have post Halo 3. The USA and USSR had tense relations before WWII due to much of the same issues that caused them to be tense after WWII - the war really didn't solve anything. If anything it might have made things worse due to the USSR's new expansion into Europe afterwards. They still had competing economic, political and religious goals. The reasons for the Elites to remain xenophobic and hostile have been either disproven outright in a variety of different ways or now rely upon the validity of the Prophets - who are liars anyway. Those who haven't analysed the validity of their prior beliefs, assuming they even were hostile to begin with and not just indifferent, should be a minority, not a huge majority.

The only thing I guess worth mentioning is the fear of retaliation, though it is odd for them to say "I fear that the Humans might attack back, therefore I hate them". With no conflict between that and any sort of renewed beliefs or guilt or something this is also pretty weird, especially for the whole species to be like that.

  • 08.13.2012 3:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
"I fear that the Humans might attack back, therefore I hate them". With no conflict between that and any sort of renewed beliefs or guilt or something this is also pretty weird, especially for the whole species to be like that.


Even odder that there is a planet with ex-covenant and human rebels working together to attack earth.

  • 08.13.2012 5:35 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3