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This topic has moved here: Subject: I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.
  • Subject: I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.
Subject: I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.

It's necessary to point out stupidity because they'll never learn if this place is just a massive hugbox.

That said, this seems to be what the mods are going for.

  • 08.10.2012 1:10 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

tl;dr


I got the main point though and I agree

  • 08.10.2012 1:28 PM PDT

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

This is sort of what I was getting at.
Posted by: Cpt Needa
It's necessary to point out stupidity because they'll never learn if this place is just a massive hugbox.

That said, this seems to be what the mods are going for.

But there have been a lot of great points made in this thread. Such as, who's to say pointing out ones stupidity will cause the desired reaction of learning from their mistake. One might take said pointing out in an offensive manner, and turn the discussion into a detailed bitter argument.

As well, some have suggested ignoring idiocy as opposed to boldly identifying it, and putting it the persons face. This is a great way to make your experience more relaxed and enjoyable here, simply by ignoring what you wish. But sometimes I feel and I'm sure others do as well, the odd instance calls for the action which I've talked about, whether or not it works, sometimes someone's belligerent stupidity needs to be pointed out, and why it is they look stupid.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 1:41 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 1:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Positive vibes.

Truthfully, I don't think he's trying to say that being a jerk is appropriate. Then again, I suppose what is and what is not a jerk is for the person to decide. Simply solution: Ignore those that bother you and don't dwell on such trivial things as other peoples nonsensical behavior. If you can't control yourself, or you believe it so necessary to point out someone's stupidity, can you not simply message them? Taking the more gentle approach like defnop suggested could, perhaps, have the same result as pointing it out to them publicly. :)

Posted by: True Underdog
Show me proof that it has worked. If you have to mention specific users, just PM me then.

I'm glad we agree that it's be great if everyone ignored "bad posts," but your paper thin justification that it's ok to be a jerk in this situation because other people do it doesn't cut it.

  • 08.10.2012 1:50 PM PDT

Posted by: burritosenior
Textbook thin justification delivered.

And I would remove the negative connotation you keep putting on it by default. Telling somebody that a thread is bad is not being a 'jerk.'
Justification is justification, no matter how thin.

  • 08.10.2012 2:15 PM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."

You know what bothers me far more often than stupidity?

Conceitedness.

  • 08.10.2012 2:28 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

I agree with the title, but I don't think there is any need to post that within a thread (I admit I do sometimes, however).

[Edited on 08.10.2012 2:56 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 2:55 PM PDT

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: True Underdog
Show me proof that it has worked. If you have to mention specific users, just PM me then.

I'm glad we agree that it's be great if everyone ignored "bad posts," but your paper thin justification that it's ok to be a jerk in this situation because other people do it doesn't cut it.
Being a jerk and telling someone why what they said is stupid are not the same things.

Saying that an idea is stupid makes people not talk about those ideas anymore, typically (except for a certain few). I've made threads in the past, and I've been told in the past that what I'm saying is stupid and, while sometimes I will disagree with a person, I'm not immature enough to defy clear and plain logic when I recognize it for the purposes of winning an Internet debate.

I will reiterate, being a dick to someone and telling them that their idea is stupid are two totally different things. PM incoming.


They are separate indeed.

And here is a recent example of where the action necessary:

Batman shooting victims should be given a refund.

Odd, he's blacklisted currently. While he maintains he had true and honest intentions, the person was either clearly trying to be a smart ass, or does not understand appropriate timing in sensitive situations. To which both explanations for his actions are still centered around a high level of stupidity.

He does however, fire back with an insult. But whether or not my explanation and identification of his stupidity helped, we'll never know. But maybe, just maybe, after giving him a hard time, he may think twice before posting a similarly retarded thread. It's up in the air since no one can read another's mind, and that's what makes this discussion so interesting... When and where does patience and kindness work, and when and where does a bolder approach work when sensitive ways prove ineffective?

  • 08.10.2012 2:56 PM PDT

Posted by: Helveck
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: True Underdog
Show me proof that it has worked. If you have to mention specific users, just PM me then.

I'm glad we agree that it's be great if everyone ignored "bad posts," but your paper thin justification that it's ok to be a jerk in this situation because other people do it doesn't cut it.
Being a jerk and telling someone why what they said is stupid are not the same things.

Saying that an idea is stupid makes people not talk about those ideas anymore, typically (except for a certain few). I've made threads in the past, and I've been told in the past that what I'm saying is stupid and, while sometimes I will disagree with a person, I'm not immature enough to defy clear and plain logic when I recognize it for the purposes of winning an Internet debate.

I will reiterate, being a dick to someone and telling them that their idea is stupid are two totally different things. PM incoming.


They are separate indeed.

And here is a recent example of where the action necessary:

Batman shooting victims should be given a refund.

Odd, he's blacklisted currently. While he maintains he had true and honest intentions, the person was either clearly trying to be a smart ass, or does not understand appropriate timing in sensitive situations. To which both explanations for his actions are still centered around a high level of stupidity.

He does however, fire back with an insult. But whether or not my explanation and identification of his stupidity helped, we'll never know. But maybe, just maybe, after giving him a hard time, he may think twice before posting a similarly retarded thread. It's up in the air since no one can read another's mind, and that's what makes this discussion so interesting... When and where does patience and kindness work, and when and where does a bolder approach work when sensitive ways prove ineffective?
So in short you're saying that if it takes a little verbal abuse to learn a lesson so be it?

  • 08.10.2012 3:13 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

Posted by: Grimaldus
So in short you're saying that if it takes a little verbal abuse to learn a lesson so be it?
Posted in the OP
...are these methods too bold and cruel? Or should the practice be carefully utilized as to hopefully help bring about change within some people who would otherwise continue being the centre of their little world, spewing their stupid and idiotic nonsense?
That is the dialog we are trying to hold here, what do you think? Should we be tolerant, intolerant, or just ignore it all (as these seem to be the three most prevalent schools of thought so far)?

  • 08.10.2012 3:27 PM PDT

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

I don't like using the term verbal abuse. And I don't personally believe telling someone when they're being stupid (not ignorant) and that they're behaving idiotically in a tone that is slightly harsh, qualifies as verbal abuse. But to each their own.

And as Kick said, the debate were having is pretty clearly illustrated. Show complete loving tolerance, show irritable intolerance, or ignore all together. I personally believe all 3 are useful, but it all depends on the circumstance.

  • 08.10.2012 3:36 PM PDT

Posted by: Helveck
I don't like using the term verbal abuse. And I don't personally believe telling someone when they're being stupid (not ignorant) and that they're behaving idiotically in a tone that is slightly harsh, qualifies as verbal abuse. But to each their own.

And as Kick said, the debate were having is pretty clearly illustrated. Show complete loving tolerance, show irritable intolerance, or ignore all together. I personally believe all 3 are useful, but it all depends on the circumstance.
Okay, yeah...it's rather difficult to be nice all the time especially when it comes to hard headed individuals. Like my terrible attempt to understand this thread says above...if it takes a little verbal abuse, I'm going to do it. There's only so much one can tolerate here or really anywhere.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 3:43 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 3:42 PM PDT

*´¨)---––•(-• Dutchy •-)•–--–-(¨´*
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)••(¨*•.¸ (¨´*•.¸´•.¸
(¸.•´ (¸.•Everything fails•.¸) ´•.¸)

On second thought, no.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 4:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 4:00 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Two important things to remember:
- Your character is a result of your conduct.
- Sense of humour trumps common sense everytime.

Helveck, you are too far on the side of "justified cruelty". And the vast, almost all-encompassing majority of the world (myself included) is too far on the side of "stupidity" (both intended and non-intended).

I believe that sometimes you use your hatred of stupidity as permission to be a HUGE prick, when in actuality you could accomplish the same goal by just being a prick.

I'm not writing that with the intent to call you (or anyone, for that matter) out, but instead to say: Everything should be practiced in moderation. That includes the recognition, response, retaliation of stupidity.

As it specifically relates to the Bnet community, I believe that when you see stupidity, the WORST thing you can do is call other peoples attention to it or try to correct or punish it. Stupidity breeds like ... something that breeds really fast ... when the reward is fame (even interwebz fame). Welcome to almost every viral YouTube video ever.

  • 08.10.2012 4:48 PM PDT

Man, I miss ALL the good stuff. This thread seems super serious. I am far too late to get into the bulk of this argumentation and logical reasoning. All I'll share is that I've seen some serious hostility and hierarchy shown in the first 8 or so pages of this thread. It doesn't make me happy. We can get along better than this!!!

People make stupid posts and threads, this is the internet, what do we expect? We all wish it was simple enough to just ignore them, but sometimes it isn't I try my best :)

[Edited on 08.10.2012 4:50 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 4:49 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

I think most of us are looking for gold stickers, hoping that people will hop on the bandwagon of whatever we say and praise us for the replies submitted.

"Report and move on"
DMG good idea omg you're so smart

"You're stupid and this thread is bad"
Yeah i agree with DMG he's so smart!

  • 08.10.2012 6:04 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dmg04
I think most of us are looking for gold stickers, hoping that people will hop on the bandwagon of whatever we say and praise us for the replies submitted.

"Report and move on"
DMG good idea omg you're so smart

"You're stupid and this thread is bad"
Yeah i agree with DMG he's so smart!

What? No? I don't tell people that their thread is terrible because I think it's the thing to do or because I'll get quote-posted or this'd. I do it because I think they're thread is stupid and they deserve to hear it.

  • 08.10.2012 8:21 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: dmg04
I think most of us are looking for gold stickers, hoping that people will hop on the bandwagon of whatever we say and praise us for the replies submitted.

"Report and move on"
DMG good idea omg you're so smart

"You're stupid and this thread is bad"
Yeah i agree with DMG he's so smart!

What? No? I don't tell people that their thread is terrible because I think it's the thing to do or because I'll get quote-posted or this'd. I do it because I think they're thread is stupid and they deserve to hear it.


:|

That's some deep stuff right there.
I'm glad you grant yourself permission to tell someone something that they 'deserve' to hear!

  • 08.10.2012 8:30 PM PDT


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: coolmike699
"Hey, you have toilet paper on your shoe."

That's really all that's necessary. It's not necessary to include any name calling, or sarcasm, or other immature douchery.
... It was an example regarding the principle of the thing, not the method.

Telling someone that they're wrong can simply be "Hey, you're wrong, and here's why..." and then giving them the reasons you think they're wrong.It isn't a matter of being 'wrong.' At all. Whatsoever.
Finally, do you really think being "mean" to someone who's wrong will make them see the error of their ways? No, more often then not, they'll just get angry, and presto... Internet turd fight. It has been proven to work. Read some more posts in the thread. If everybody ignored, it would be great. But since not everybody does, this method works best.


You're right. If everyone ignored, it would be great. So someone has to start.

And I'm not sure what "method" you're talking about. Telling someone that their thread is stupid doesn't seem like much of a method, unless your goal is starting flame wars.

  • 08.10.2012 8:31 PM PDT

Posted by: coolmike699
You're right. If everyone ignored, it would be great. So someone has to start.
See, we already talked about this. This is the problem with joining a conversation pages in. We, myself included, tried it. It doesn't work. So we needed something else. Something that DOES work.

And I'm not sure what "method" you're talking about. Telling someone that their thread is stupid doesn't seem like much of a method, unless your goal is starting flame wars.
... Again, this is the issue with joining the conversation so late. We have proven examples of it working. Yes, telling people when their thread is really stupid is the method. One that works.

  • 08.10.2012 8:38 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dmg04

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: dmg04
I think most of us are looking for gold stickers, hoping that people will hop on the bandwagon of whatever we say and praise us for the replies submitted.

"Report and move on"
DMG good idea omg you're so smart

"You're stupid and this thread is bad"
Yeah i agree with DMG he's so smart!

What? No? I don't tell people that their thread is terrible because I think it's the thing to do or because I'll get quote-posted or this'd. I do it because I think they're thread is stupid and they deserve to hear it.


:|

That's some deep stuff right there.
I'm glad you grant yourself permission to tell someone something that they 'deserve' to hear!
They deserve to hear it because they deserve feedback on their thread, good or bad, not because my word is law and to hear my opinion is to have been spoken to by some divine being who will give your life purpose and meaning, but because it's an opinion that I hold.

[Edited on 08.10.2012 8:41 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2012 8:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Helveck
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: True Underdog
Show me proof that it has worked. If you have to mention specific users, just PM me then.

I'm glad we agree that it's be great if everyone ignored "bad posts," but your paper thin justification that it's ok to be a jerk in this situation because other people do it doesn't cut it.
Being a jerk and telling someone why what they said is stupid are not the same things.

Saying that an idea is stupid makes people not talk about those ideas anymore, typically (except for a certain few). I've made threads in the past, and I've been told in the past that what I'm saying is stupid and, while sometimes I will disagree with a person, I'm not immature enough to defy clear and plain logic when I recognize it for the purposes of winning an Internet debate.

I will reiterate, being a dick to someone and telling them that their idea is stupid are two totally different things. PM incoming.


They are separate indeed.

And here is a recent example of where the action necessary:

Batman shooting victims should be given a refund.

Odd, he's blacklisted currently. While he maintains he had true and honest intentions, the person was either clearly trying to be a smart ass, or does not understand appropriate timing in sensitive situations. To which both explanations for his actions are still centered around a high level of stupidity.

He does however, fire back with an insult. But whether or not my explanation and identification of his stupidity helped, we'll never know. But maybe, just maybe, after giving him a hard time, he may think twice before posting a similarly retarded thread. It's up in the air since no one can read another's mind, and that's what makes this discussion so interesting... When and where does patience and kindness work, and when and where does a bolder approach work when sensitive ways prove ineffective?


Come on, man. Do you really think that that guy would stop making threads like that just because someone told him he is stupid? That's exactly what he wants.

Yes, his thread is stupid. But so is falling for such obvious bait.

  • 08.10.2012 8:44 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Here, here!

Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
Man, I miss ALL the good stuff. This thread seems super serious. I am far too late to get into the bulk of this argumentation and logical reasoning. All I'll share is that I've seen some serious hostility and hierarchy shown in the first 8 or so pages of this thread. It doesn't make me happy. We can get along better than this!!!

People make stupid posts and threads, this is the internet, what do we expect? We all wish it was simple enough to just ignore them, but sometimes it isn't I try my best :)

  • 08.11.2012 5:29 AM PDT

Known by some, but not by all.
Soffish: Do not eat!
TWP Assistant Director.

It seems like to me that some people think they own these forums, when in fact, they do not. Many threads have been made about how people think these forums should be ran and how people should post. If they don't follow that, then they should experience the fury of those who want things a certain way.

The only people who have any authority here can dictate how and what people post. Those people being Bungie staff. All others, including myself, are just guests here.

So we, the guests, have no right to dictate what others do here. I cannot make a person post in a certain way or in a certain manner. I won't even try. It's not my place to do so and neither is it anyone elses.

~Delta

[Edited on 08.11.2012 3:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.11.2012 11:41 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

ODST Expeditionary Force I The WorkPLace I Mythics
Technically Mythic
Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.

This thread made me die a little inside.

  • 08.11.2012 12:17 PM PDT