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This topic has moved here: Subject: I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.
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Subject: I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.

Perpetual Ninja in training.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

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Los Paranoias


Posted by: Obi Wan Canoli
Didn't read, don't care.
<3

  • 08.09.2012 5:33 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: spartain ken 15
If someone is acting belligerent, they should be dealt with or you should PM them saying that you don't like that behavior. If it continues, then the mods should take over.
But who are you/Who am i to decide that someone needs to be 'dealt with'

At the end of the day, i'd just be some random guy on the internet saying 'Man, you need to take a chill pill'. Will this actually cause a user to change their posting habits? More than likely not.

If someone is acting belligerent, why not just do the whole 'report and move on' thing, rather than investing time letting them know they're being dicks because we've given ourselves the golden star of approval saying we know what's best and everyone should listen to us?

[Edited on 08.09.2012 5:39 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 5:35 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: MightyMarcher01
Okay, I just joined this thread, and it will take WAY to ling to read all the comments and find out the current conversation. I read the OP, though.

My discussion: Why do people have to insult people on these forums anyway? Usually when someone insults someone on the internet they usually mean something a lot less than what they said. Why do people on the internet even enjoy making someone feel bad?


There are many theories but I think it is because people feel they can get away with more things on the internet because they are not facing the person. I am sure many people here are very good people IRL but sometimes on Bungie.net people can be really mean.

I think we come to a point where we feel we can do anything and we begin to just see text and don't think about the people behind them.

This makes me worried for when the "newbs" come on this forum.

As the "inhabitants" of the community forum, it should be our job to be welcoming and accepting of new people. We are going to meet many new users of every attitude, age, etc.

There will be people you may not like, there may be people you meet that you one day will call friend. But, you should still try and be nice to all of them (or atleast not respond with flaming to their posts).

We don't need this drama on the mains and it makes everyone on the community forum and the rest of the community look bad. We are better than flaming people we don't agree with to make a point. If we act like this to people, new users are not going to want to come back and we are basically saying we tolerate this behavior.

[Edited on 08.09.2012 5:39 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 5:36 PM PDT
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They asked what I wanted to be when I grew up;

I wrote down happy.

They told me I didn't understand the assignment;

I told them they don't understand life. - John Lennon


Posted by: Helveck

So Community, are these methods too bold and cruel? Or should the practice be carefully utilized as to hopefully help bring about change within some people who would otherwise continue being the centre of their little world, spewing their stupid and idiotic nonsense?
Look, if I want to look for an intellectual topic to post in, I look at the groups. If not, I'll be on the Flood or Community. It's that simple, for me.

  • 08.09.2012 5:43 PM PDT

Bullying is lame...

This rule, is a golden rule.
- Respect your fellow members, or at least tolerate them publicly. Harassment of any kind will not be tolerated, even if they probably deserve it.

  • 08.09.2012 5:43 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

When I start reading a thread, as soon as I determine it's a dumb thread, I go back out to the forum and look for a better thread. Not only does posting in it bump the thread, but I've already wasted my time reading a dumb thread, why do I want to waste any more of my time posting in it? That just doesn't make any sense.

  • 08.09.2012 5:44 PM PDT

Posted by: spartain ken 15
I wouldn't try and bring up semantics on here. People are always rude to others they don't like and will make sure the OP of the thread and everyone is aware of it.

If the mods really banned all the people from the tongue and cheek stupidity people pull. 75% of the septagon would be banned. (Though some people need it).

It is easy to say be kind but the fact is some people here are real jerks and will never learn.
Because banning solves everything right?

  • 08.09.2012 5:46 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Grimaldus
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I wouldn't try and bring up semantics on here. People are always rude to others they don't like and will make sure the OP of the thread and everyone is aware of it.

If the mods really banned all the people from the tongue and cheek stupidity people pull. 75% of the septagon would be banned. (Though some people need it).

It is easy to say be kind but the fact is some people here are real jerks and will never learn.
Because banning solves everything right?


No

I would prefer if people didn't get banned but I also want to make sure people who are out of line are dealt with. When people act like jerks to others, it lowers the quality of the forums for everyone.

When you ban or warn someone, you are teaching them that the behavior is not acceptable.

It is just like if a little kid keeps taking cookies out of a cookie jar after you told him to stop. If you make him go to "time out" for a bit, they learn that their actions do have consequences.

Ignoring it or not really enforcing it tells the little kid that the authority figures are "push overs" and they feel they can continue to do what they want not fearing any consequences. This leads to more issues down the road and it makes the user turn into a bitter, rude person.

But, sadly, there are some people who may not have any place on Bungie.net because they simply just want to be a jerk and break rules. After a certain period of time you just have to say enough is enough.

[Edited on 08.09.2012 5:52 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 5:52 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: x Foman123 x

No need to rehash the arguments in favor of ignoring bad posts rather than replying with "you're an idiot." All of your analogies have been about inapplicable and irrelevant IRL situations, and in the one applicable analogy you made -- the analogy of a person trolling an MLP forum -- you yourself admitted that trolling would result in being "shunned and rejected" by that community's members. Exactly the kind of action that I am advocating.
If you ignore people, they can have a bunch of different conclusions that they can come to in their head. If you tell somebody that their post was stupid, and that the reasons it was stupid were x, y, and z, then they know exactly what you think and how they're being received by the rest of the community.

It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.

  • 08.09.2012 5:53 PM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.
If your kid keeps messing their room do you call them a stupid idiot? (Hopefully) You don't. You tell them in a calm and respectful manner that they need to keep their room clean. Same outcome, different method.

I was supposed to point this out to someone else but I can't find the post. So you'll have to do, Crazy.

<3

[Edited on 08.09.2012 5:58 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 5:57 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: x Foman123 x

No need to rehash the arguments in favor of ignoring bad posts rather than replying with "you're an idiot." All of your analogies have been about inapplicable and irrelevant IRL situations, and in the one applicable analogy you made -- the analogy of a person trolling an MLP forum -- you yourself admitted that trolling would result in being "shunned and rejected" by that community's members. Exactly the kind of action that I am advocating.
If you ignore people, they can have a bunch of different conclusions that they can come to in their head. If you tell somebody that their post was stupid, and that the reasons it was stupid were x, y, and z, then they know exactly what you think and how they're being received by the rest of the community.

It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.
But who said the entire community is going to agree with your opinion?

You can tell me that i'm ugly, stupid, and useless... but my super hott famous girlfriend from europe would tell me that i'm smart, handsome, and extremely useful.

(her name is Ra1nb0wDash55)

[Edited on 08.09.2012 5:59 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 5:58 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: True Underdog
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
]You're never going to get a situation in which everyone is smart enough to ignore a stupid thread. And if 45 of the 51 posts in your brand spankin' new hot-topic thread are telling you that your ideas, posts, and thread(s) are stupid, incoherent, and/or nonsense, and you aren't even a little motivated to change your ways then you're clearly a troll who gets off on seeing people dislike you and you're an unsalvagably lost cause. (And I do not think anyone on this forum to be that.)


You're actually more likely to get that person to lash out against you and (as Fo has already mentioned in this thread) get two or more people arguing.

Nobody wins in that scenario.


It doesn't matter if that person lashes out at you; that's their problem if they begin to take it to any sort of personal level with ad hominem, etc. What does matter is that they now know what people think of their tread, post, or idea and that everyone else does too so that other members who may be prone to following in the footsteps of this member if they don't see any direct backlash don't also fall into the same pattern displayed by whoever the OP is (that pattern being posting stupid, nonsense threads/ideas).

It discourages people from doing the same sort of thing, which is why a PM is also not the best action to resort to. Nobody likes being told their ideas are stupid*, so people who see that posting threads/ideas of type x are likely to get them called stupid because the community thinks they're stupid (usually because they are), then they're not very likely to post ideas or threads of that nature, thus discouraging future misbehavioralisms.

*I know I'm going to get some sort of comeback talking about how this means "oh you shouldn't bully people then if nobody likes it and you admit it" or "follow the golden rule; treat people how you want to be treated". I'd just like to address this right away and say that telling somebody that their idea is (in your opinion) stupid and why it is stupid is not bullying, it's stating a belief. Sure, you could beat around the bush and use more PC terms than stupid or idiotic, but that just wouldn't get across your actual ideas and would dilute your point. Long story short: just because people don't like to be told that they say stupid -blam!-, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

  • 08.09.2012 6:01 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dmg04

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: x Foman123 x

No need to rehash the arguments in favor of ignoring bad posts rather than replying with "you're an idiot." All of your analogies have been about inapplicable and irrelevant IRL situations, and in the one applicable analogy you made -- the analogy of a person trolling an MLP forum -- you yourself admitted that trolling would result in being "shunned and rejected" by that community's members. Exactly the kind of action that I am advocating.
If you ignore people, they can have a bunch of different conclusions that they can come to in their head. If you tell somebody that their post was stupid, and that the reasons it was stupid were x, y, and z, then they know exactly what you think and how they're being received by the rest of the community.

It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.
But who said the entire community is going to agree with your opinion?

You can tell me that i'm ugly, stupid, and useless... but my super hott famous girlfriend from europe would tell me that i'm smart, handsome, and extremely useful.

(her name is Ra1nb0wDash55)
I know it was a poor choice of words when I kept saying "rest of the community". What I really meant was "other members of the community". I certainly wasn't saying that it's always black and white with who is for/against "stupid" ideas. My apologies.

  • 08.09.2012 6:02 PM PDT
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Positive vibes.

Ignorance is bliss.

I wouldn't go as far to say that you should become sheltered. But. I do believe that people should learn to avoid things that annoy them. If you find yourself periodically getting upset over a users behavior simply avoid their posts and when you find yourself reading something they have posted quickly turn away and move on. Act as if nothing happened.

You'll soon find yourself sifting through threads and unconsciously ignoring that particular users post, because you have developed a knack for ignoring things, rather than a knack for allowing yourself to be drawn in by the temptation of pointing out each and every thing that that person did wrong.

Because I believe that is what truly draws you in. Subconsciously, in the back of your mind somewhere, you have grown so attached to the idea that it is, perhaps, necessary to point out peoples mistakes; so you allow yourself to be drawn in by the temptation, as stated previously, and that is where you are, shall I say, fault?

Move on, my friend. Get yourself out of this mindset that it is, as I said before, perhaps, necessary to call someone out for something they did. Because it's not. It's not necessary. If you must do, why not simply send them a private message? Or is there something about making your distaste public knowledge that keeps you from taking the civilized route?

My words are not meant to offend, but to simply implant the philosophy into your head that retaliation is not necessary.

  • 08.09.2012 6:03 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.
If your kid keeps messing their room do you call them a stupid idiot? (Hopefully) You don't. You tell them in a calm and respectful manner that they need to keep their room clean. Same outcome, different method.

I was supposed to point this out to someone else but I can't find the post. So you'll have to do, Crazy.

<3
I'm not saying that you should call people stupid idiot poopy heads because you don't like their ideas/posting style.

I'm saying that you should call their ideas/posting styles themselves stupid or idiotic if you deem them so.

It's the "don't hate the sinner, hate their sin" mentality, but applied a little more realistically.

  • 08.09.2012 6:04 PM PDT
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Positive vibes.

I asked the same of Helveck, and I'll ask the same of you. What about posting publicly and announcing to the entire community that you dislike something about the person (or, rather, how they are posting) do you see as necessary? Does not sending them a private message accomplish the same thing?

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
It's the difference between picking putting your kid in their room, and putting them there and then telling them to clean it.
If your kid keeps messing their room do you call them a stupid idiot? (Hopefully) You don't. You tell them in a calm and respectful manner that they need to keep their room clean. Same outcome, different method.

I was supposed to point this out to someone else but I can't find the post. So you'll have to do, Crazy.

<3
I'm not saying that you should call people stupid idiot poopy heads because you don't like their ideas/posting style.

I'm saying that you should call their ideas/posting styles themselves stupid or idiotic if you deem them so.

It's the "don't hate the sinner, hate their sin" mentality, but applied a little more realistically.

  • 08.09.2012 6:08 PM PDT

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Grimaldus
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I wouldn't try and bring up semantics on here. People are always rude to others they don't like and will make sure the OP of the thread and everyone is aware of it.

If the mods really banned all the people from the tongue and cheek stupidity people pull. 75% of the septagon would be banned. (Though some people need it).

It is easy to say be kind but the fact is some people here are real jerks and will never learn.
Because banning solves everything right?


No

I would prefer if people didn't get banned but I also want to make sure people who are out of line are dealt with. When people act like jerks to others, it lowers the quality of the forums for everyone.

When you ban or warn someone, you are teaching them that the behavior is not acceptable.

It is just like if a little kid keeps taking cookies out of a cookie jar after you told him to stop. If you make him go to "time out" for a bit, they learn that their actions do have consequences.

Ignoring it or not really enforcing it tells the little kid that the authority figures are "push overs" and they feel they can continue to do what they want not fearing any consequences. This leads to more issues down the road and it makes the user turn into a bitter, rude person.

But, sadly, there are some people who may not have any place on Bungie.net because they simply just want to be a jerk and break rules. After a certain period of time you just have to say enough is enough.
There are a lot of people here who don't come to better their people skills and there are a heck of a lot of people who don't learn from their bans. The way I see it, having a feature that lets me collapse posts of jerks without needing to report them is a valuable asset. Leave's moderators free to deal with more severe misconduct.

  • 08.09.2012 6:09 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I know it was a poor choice of words when I kept saying "rest of the community". What I really meant was "other members of the community". I certainly wasn't saying that it's always black and white with who is for/against "stupid" ideas. My apologies.
But at the same time, who are those people to say that they know the absolute right in whatever situation we're talking about?

If the members of the community all happen to be moderators, then that works. If it's just a bunch of random members saying 'you're stupid and you should feel bad because it's common knowledge not to post x thread in x forum because x% of members won't agree with your opinion on x', then that's just ridiculous.

  • 08.09.2012 6:10 PM PDT
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Positive vibes.

Everyone's opinion counts, but sometimes it is best to keep your opinion to yourself. I do not believe anyone should pride themselves on singling out a particular member and criticizing their posting behavior, publicly or privately; but, if you must do it, please try and take your problems to the handy dandy private messaging system that Bungie has so graciously blessed us with.

Posted by: dmg04

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
I know it was a poor choice of words when I kept saying "rest of the community". What I really meant was "other members of the community". I certainly wasn't saying that it's always black and white with who is for/against "stupid" ideas. My apologies.
But at the same time, who are those people to say that they know the absolute right in whatever situation we're talking about?

If the members of the community all happen to be moderators, then that works. If it's just a bunch of random members saying 'you're stupid and you should feel bad because it's common knowledge not to post x thread in x forum because x% of members won't agree with your opinion on x', then that's just ridiculous.

  • 08.09.2012 6:15 PM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

"Stupid: Lacking intelligence or common sense."

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
It's the "don't hate the sinner, hate their sin" mentality, but applied a little more realistically.
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read*.

Now, what have I just called stupid. The words that have been put together or the person who put those words together?

Here's a better example:
This is a a stupid invention. Am I calling the chair stupid or am I calling the inventor stupid?

*It's not really. I understand what you're saying, I'm just trying to make a point. :-)

[Edited on 08.09.2012 6:18 PM PDT]

  • 08.09.2012 6:16 PM PDT

I tried to read everything but I couldn't it was too hard.

But I think a lot of that stuff that I did read sounds too mean like I wouldn't say that to my momma if she was telling me something i knew was wrong

  • 08.09.2012 6:17 PM PDT

Key

Mainly for the discouragement of future copycats and lookalikes or current twins who would see fit to do the same as the hypothetical OP from doing the same as the hypothetical OP.
Posted by: a rascal cat
I asked the same of Helveck, and I'll ask the same of you. What about posting publicly and announcing to the entire community that you dislike something about the person (or, rather, how they are posting) do you see as necessary? Does not sending them a private message accomplish the same thing?

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

  • 08.09.2012 6:18 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: Helveck
I don't like you, I don't have to like you, and your thread is stupid.
Helveck please marry me.

The rules here state very simply: 

Play nice.

Insulting someone directly, attacking them or attempting to belittle an individual are not only against the rules, but avoiding these actions should be a part of every persons moral code. 
While I like your thread as a whole, this "should" business is very upsetting. It is my personal belief that acting horrible to one another will bring out the best and worst in people.

I'll tell you why, because simply telling someone they are wrong does not cut it. It is not enough. This applies to both  inaccurate statements, as well as stupid and or pointless remarks. Especially when the person is aware that their comment may be inaccurate and or pointless (spam if you would prefer since some would deem my measurement of pointless comments subjective).I do not feel the same way. People who are truly ignorant cannot be reach through insult or calm explanation. Whether you wish to address it or not, those who commonly post fallacies and wrongs in the forums have not changed their ways, but rather expanded their fallacious logic into justifying ignorance. Why is it do you think that users like Foman or daza keep posting the same fallacious and illogical nonsense? They ignore it when their idiotic mistakes are turned on them, and just continue to post in the same manner. Idiocy has its own means of defending itself.

So Community, are these methods too bold and cruel? Or should the practice be carefully utilized as to hopefully help bring about change within some people who would otherwise continue being the centre of their little world, spewing their stupid and idiotic nonsense?I do not think morality should be considered for it only truly applies to the rules. In terms of discussion, only truth reigns above all else. You should post what is true, and be humble if you overstep your bounds of knowledge. If you wish to post aggressively, as I do for fun, you can freely do so. While it may alter the reception of information, it will not always resound no matter what format the argument is presented in. So insult if you wish, what truly will determine the effects with be the user and their attitude towards alternative perceptions.

There is one thing that you must always remember. What we have here are not debates to determine policies, but simply discussions. You cannot win a discussion, and in the end, there is no correct or incorrect.

  • 08.09.2012 6:19 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: defnop552
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read*.

Now, what have I just called stupid. The words that have been put together or the person who put those words together?
Literally, you called what I said stupid. My idea was stupid. Smart people come up with stupid ideas all the time. If I were to tell somebody that they're stupid, and had the foresight required, I would make sure to let them know that I am calling their idea stupid. Though there is a point when the spew of stupidity out of someone's cranium becomes so constant and consistent that they themselves can be stupid, that is not what we're discussing.


Here's a better example:
This is a a stupid invention. Am I calling the chair stupid or am I calling the inventor stupid?


[Subject] [linking verb] [article] [adjective] [predicate noun]

Linking verb means that the subject is whatever is the predicate noun or adjective.

This sentence tells me that "This" "is" "a" singular invention.

The adjective tells me what kind of invention, a stupid one.

You said nothing about the inventor. Like I said, smart people can say, do, create, and think stupid things.

  • 08.09.2012 6:25 PM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55You either didn't get what I was saying or you chose to ignore it.

  • 08.09.2012 6:27 PM PDT