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  • Subject: So after finishing Glasslands, what do you think of Halsey?
Subject: So after finishing Glasslands, what do you think of Halsey?
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Infection in Halo 3 isn't zombie killing; it's ethnic cleansing. Have you ever noticed that these "zombies" are just black Spartans?

Posted by: VA Tech43
I haven't actually picked up Glasslands yet. The last book in the Halo series I read was The Cole Protocol. Is this one actually worth picking up?

Personally, I rank Glasslands as joint-weakest in the series alongside The Flood. I'd definitely pick up the first two parts of Greg Bear's Forerunner series (Cryptum and Primordium) before Glasslands. I wasn't sure about Bear's novels at first but they quickly became my favourites in the series and he is definitely more worthy of joining the likes of Nylund, Staten and Buckell than Traviss is.

All my opinion of course.

  • 08.15.2012 7:51 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I finally ordered Glasslands on Amazon yesterday, so I'll be back to this thread at the end of next week.

I've heard the novel isn't the best out of all the novels, but who knows, maybe the Kilo Five trilogy comes off to weak start but will redeem itself with The Thursday War and with the third and final book. But like I said, who knows. For now, I'll read Glasslands and let you know what I think once I get it.

  • 08.15.2012 8:34 AM PDT


Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'

  • 08.15.2012 9:09 AM PDT


Posted by: AgingWhite Fire

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: AgingWhite Fire
IF i remember correctly, she DID find Forerunner tech at Onyx so she may of been lying to get the battle group there however she fif pull through in a massive way.
I feel about Halsey herself that she seems to be an ok person as she did try and save those she care about(Her Spartans the SII's) but at the same time i realize she should of at least ask them if they WANTED to be "saved"
No S-II wanted to be saved. Thats like asking if you want the earth to stop rotating around the sun, it wan't be done. The S-II 's have been in the war from the very start of the war. The only way for Halsey to save her spartans was to trick them into the core of the planet otherwise they'd just find a way off the planet and head stright for the frontlines again.

Also it was never about the Forerunner teach to get the spartans there. That was an excuse she used to get Lord Hood to send Blue team. The only reason she went to Onxy was in order to save the S-III's before it was too late like it was for her S-II's




-Nate'


ok fair enough i conside that point on them not wanting to be saved.

That may of beeen the lie she used, HOWEVER she did end up finding tech that otherwise would of been lost and that would greatly improe humanities space craft, so in the end maybe her lying and fleeing with some SII's actually was a good thing.
In GoO it was a good thing since awhole covvie fleet was destroyed when they planet blew, but in Glass Halsey became the new Hitlet and Satan and Stalin rolled into one because of what she did.



-Nate'

  • 08.15.2012 9:25 AM PDT

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Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Yeah, you don't miss much in terms of story, basically this

1.Elites are fighting eachother about whether they should fight us again

2. ONI is in much better shape than we thought

3. Blue Team gets out of the Dyson sphere

4. UNSC gets Forerunner Slipspace tech and 4 Engineers capable of reproducing from the Dyson Sphere.

5. Halsey gets arrested.

6. By Halo 4, Parangotsky is likely dead and Serin Osman, a Spartan II washout, is head of ONI.

  • 08.15.2012 2:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Gottalovec4

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Yeah, you don't miss much in terms of story, basically this

1.Elites are fighting eachother about whether they should fight us again

2. ONI is in much better shape than we thought

3. Blue Team gets out of the Dyson sphere

4. UNSC gets Forerunner Slipspace tech and 4 Engineers capable of reproducing from the Dyson Sphere.

5. Halsey gets arrested.

6. By Halo 4, Parangotsky is likely dead and Serin Osman, a Spartan II washout, is head of ONI.


Oh, don't forget the growing movement of Respectful elites are gone.

ONI is it's own nation.

UNSC HAD forerunner slipspace and other ship tech, as the ship kilo five gets has "forerunner enhanced engines". (or ONI had those, out of NOWHERE).

Everybody hates Halsey.

And Osman gets leadership, despite the fact that is not how ONI is supposed to work at all.

Oh, and all the engineers from first strike and Vergil? They are dead. or never existed.

  • 08.15.2012 3:24 PM PDT
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You don't get it son. This isn't a mud hole, it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.

You guys read that garbage? I read it too. WTF is everybody hating her now? Especially mendez. His hands are just as dirty. Yet he goes around calling halsey a monster. The -blam!- nerve of that -blam!-. And why would Osman tell everybody about the spartan II program?


-blam!- this book and karen traviss too. She made all this -blam!- so damned stupid so there can be more meaningless drama.

  • 08.15.2012 10:03 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Seems like the general consensus is that Glassland did more damage than good.

Without trying to derail this thread, can anyone name something they actually enjoyed or found that was thought out in this novel?

It just seems the extent of Halsey hate, while I agree is absurd, further takes away from the focus of the story. Which suggest the novel is not worth reading when considering some of the comments above.

My interpretation of Halsey has always followed Nylund's. In 343i's adaptions of her and even Bungie's Reach. I never really felt as if they were following the same thought process of her let alone her actions. Reach did the animation and the voice well though. Beyond that any other interpretation of Halsey has been far off in my opinion.

  • 08.15.2012 10:03 PM PDT
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You don't get it son. This isn't a mud hole, it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.


Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Agreed. What the actual -blam!-?! Why is mendez acting like he never had a part in it? His hands are just as dirty yet no one hates him. Karen Traviss just wanted to create meaningless drama. And why would Osman tell a bunch of ODSTs everything about the spartan II program? How -blam!- stupid.

  • 08.15.2012 10:05 PM PDT
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You don't get it son. This isn't a mud hole, it's an operating table. And I'm the surgeon.


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Seems like the general consensus is that Glassland did more damage than good.

Without trying to derail this thread, can anyone name something they actually enjoyed or found that was thought out in this novel?

It just seems the extent of Halsey hate, while I agree is absurd, further takes away from the focus of the story. Which suggest the novel is not worth reading when considering some of the comments above.

My interpretation of Halsey has always followed Nylund's. In 343i's adaptions of her and even Bungie's Reach. I never really felt as if they were following the same thought process of her let alone her actions. Reach did the animation and the voice well though. Beyond that any other interpretation of Halsey has been far off in my opinion.


The hate on halsey is ridiculous. Especially since paragnosky and mendez have done just as much -blam!- up -blam!- as halsey. Mendez's hands are just as dirty yet no one hates him.

The only thing I liked are the part about elites and their civil wars.

  • 08.15.2012 10:07 PM PDT

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Posted by: The Batman 99

Posted by: ninjakenzen
Seems like the general consensus is that Glassland did more damage than good.

Without trying to derail this thread, can anyone name something they actually enjoyed or found that was thought out in this novel?

It just seems the extent of Halsey hate, while I agree is absurd, further takes away from the focus of the story. Which suggest the novel is not worth reading when considering some of the comments above.

My interpretation of Halsey has always followed Nylund's. In 343i's adaptions of her and even Bungie's Reach. I never really felt as if they were following the same thought process of her let alone her actions. Reach did the animation and the voice well though. Beyond that any other interpretation of Halsey has been far off in my opinion.


The hate on halsey is ridiculous. Especially since paragnosky and mendez have done just as much -blam!- up -blam!- as halsey. Mendez's hands are just as dirty yet no one hates him.

The only thing I liked are the part about elites and their civil wars.


One word: Vaz


  • 08.15.2012 10:16 PM PDT

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I originaly made an account on 07.27.2007 but I wanted to link my GT and made this account. Don't forget your passwords!

After reading Glasslands I think that I should not have read Glasslands.

No way am I reading the new books at this rate.

  • 08.15.2012 10:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
1.Yet we hear nothing of hood or the rest of the UNSC making such a large deal about it. Not to mention ONI held fred during the battle of Earth which isn't different than kelly being gone other than "it was done legally".
Source on Fred. Book, page number, etc. I don't recall any of that happening.2.Um, Halsey wasn't acting like this during GoO and that situation far far more dramatic than walking in a bubble.I don't see the difference in that either since nobody really liked her to begin with so for it do be "different" because she is alone with them doesn't add up when she was surrounded by those types of people and ONI on Reach.She needed the Spartans to survive; irritating them wouldn't exactly help the chances of her survival. Even then, Kurt treads lightly so as not to irritate her and loose her cooperation, so there's the arrogant "-blam!- everyone else, I'm ONI head scientist" Halsey that we see in Reach and Glasslands.

And above everything else, she has her research to distract her on Reach. If there's one thing we know about Halsey, it's that her work comes second to nothing.

In the shield world, there's no enemy to fight, no project to complete. There's only time to think, and that's why all of the bad things come out. Her undesirable traits were always there, just more apparent in Glasslands because there were people around willing to point them out, because in that situation, where there's no research or anything to do of scientific nature, her presence was a hindrance.

I feel like you guys need to be beaten over the head with things before you get them. Picking up on subtlety isn't exactly this forum's strong suit.It didn't develop anything nor did it "drive a story". IF Ackerson was the focus of this novel then it would have been perfect but all this did was randomly bash a character because the author though it would be interesting.Elaborate, elaborate, elaborate. What do you actually know about Ackerson? How would his character have made this any better? Why do you hate Ackerson so much? Because Halsey does? Is Catherine Halsey a beacon of morality or something?

In what direction would you have liked to see this story go? The book is biased since it only offers one viewpoint and then tries saying that Ackerson's Suicide soldiers weren't that bad.I don't think you understand what 'biased' means.

The book offers multiple perspectives of Halsey, but you're mad because not all of these fictional characters hold the same black & white moral compass as you do.

Halsey has done terrible things and some people don't like that: deal with it. The outcome of those actions doesn't negate the fact that they were taken.

In the multiple times I've argued with you, you've proven one thing: this book went over your head. There wasn't enough action for you, and it cast a character you get wood for in a more realistic light.

  • 08.16.2012 6:06 AM PDT


Posted by: The Batman 99

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Agreed. What the actual -blam!-?! Why is mendez acting like he never had a part in it? His hands are just as dirty yet no one hates him. Karen Traviss just wanted to create meaningless drama. And why would Osman tell a bunch of ODSTs everything about the spartan II program? How -blam!- stupid.
I bought ONE gears of war book and it took foooooooooor ever for anything to happen. And guess who wrote it? Anywayz I know what you mean, Mendez is just a retard in Glasslands. I mean he trained the S-II to the best the UNSC could create and he did and then he goes and trains the S-III which he knows are nothing more then throw away puppets and he seems fine with that while Halsey is the single sickest monster to ever have been because of the S-II program which she did EVERYTHING she could to make sure they survived like the Mark V armor and so on.



-Nate'

  • 08.16.2012 8:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Gottalovec4

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Yeah, you don't miss much in terms of story, basically this

1.Elites are fighting eachother about whether they should fight us again

2. ONI is in much better shape than we thought

3. Blue Team gets out of the Dyson sphere

4. UNSC gets Forerunner Slipspace tech and 4 Engineers capable of reproducing from the Dyson Sphere.

5. Halsey gets arrested.

6. By Halo 4, Parangotsky is likely dead and Serin Osman, a Spartan II washout, is head of ONI.


Oh, don't forget the growing movement of Respectful elites are gone.

ONI is it's own nation.

UNSC HAD forerunner slipspace and other ship tech, as the ship kilo five gets has "forerunner enhanced engines". (or ONI had those, out of NOWHERE).

Everybody hates Halsey.

And Osman gets leadership, despite the fact that is not how ONI is supposed to work at all.

Oh, and all the engineers from first strike and Vergil? They are dead. or never existed.
What I find -blam!- up is that it took ONI nearly 25 years to crack a jackel's shield for the Mark V armor but it took then what? a week to crack Forerunners slipsteam teach and to put it on ships?



-Nate'

  • 08.16.2012 8:27 AM PDT


Posted by: The Batman 99

Posted by: Chester Duncan

Posted by: Snail Tea
Off Topic: Haha wow. I've been reading the title as "GRASSlands" for over a month and just realised now it's Glasslands.

I haven't read it yet and have been meaning to pick up a copy. Is it worth getting?
IMO...no it is not, there are alot of things wrong with it. Like how EVERYONE even your pet rock hate Halsey now or now a human has a pet Grunt. Also two new S-II's pop up out of nowhere and then we have one of them becoming the new head of ONI and then her telling a squad of ODST EVERYTHING about the S-II project and then Halsey and Mendez acting like two 13 year olds that just broke up or...You know what...I think thats good enough for now.



-Nate'


Agreed. What the actual -blam!-?! Why is mendez acting like he never had a part in it? His hands are just as dirty yet no one hates him. Karen Traviss just wanted to create meaningless drama. And why would Osman tell a bunch of ODSTs everything about the spartan II program? How -blam!- stupid.
The reason that reject known as Osman told the ODST what she did was becasue she didn't want to feel sorry for Halsey when they arrested her.



-Nate'

  • 08.16.2012 8:30 AM PDT

Mendez didn't treat the S3's as suicide soldiers, but he definitely knew the ONI command did.


The book offers multiple perspectives of Halsey, but you're mad because not all of these fictional characters hold the same black & white moral compass as you do.

So... multiple perspectives, which pretty much all = negative, is not biased? On the moral compass thing, do explain why the heck Vaz would hate Halsey, NEVER realize that ONI had to have funded and supported it (since the Spartans are part of ONI), then go "Oh, those are the S3's... kinda young for suicide soldiers. No biggy" and walk on without at least seriously considering quitting the mission?

Like the elites. If it's not a biased/one-sided viewpoint, then where is that growing movement of elites who are respectful for humans?


Edit: I recall Osman also told them that merely because well. They MIGHT ask questions about her and Naomi being similar build/looking like they know each other.

edit2: Yeah, the moral I remember from when I read most of glasslands pretty much is Halsey = the devil, Ackerson and Mendez = almost shining angels.

The S3 program is not morally questionable, and sending 300+ kids at a time in suicide missions with unsuitable armor = just fine, as opposed to doing the damn best to make sure the 75 S2's had the best chance of making it through augmentations, and then afterwards received the very best gear to increase their chances of survival.

[Edited on 08.16.2012 8:45 AM PDT]

  • 08.16.2012 8:32 AM PDT

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Mendez didn't treat the S3's as suicide soldiers, but he definitely knew the ONI command did.


The book offers multiple perspectives of Halsey, but you're mad because not all of these fictional characters hold the same black & white moral compass as you do.

So... multiple perspectives, which pretty much all = negative, is not biased? On the moral compass thing, do explain why the heck Vaz would hate Halsey, NEVER realize that ONI had to have funded and supported it (since the Spartans are part of ONI), then go "Oh, those are the S3's... kinda young for suicide soldiers. No biggy" and walk on without at least seriously considering quitting the mission?

Like the elites. If it's not a biased/one-sided viewpoint, then where is that growing movement of elites who are respectful for humans?


Edit: I recall Osman also told them that merely because well. They MIGHT ask questions about her and Naomi being similar build/looking like they know each other.

edit2: Yeah, the moral I remember from when I read most of glasslands pretty much is Halsey = the devil, Ackerson and Mendez = almost shining angels.

The S3 program is not morally questionable, and sending 300+ kids at a time in suicide missions with unsuitable armor = just fine, as opposed to doing the damn best to make sure the 75 S2's had the best chance of making it through augmentations, and then afterwards received the very best gear to increase their chances of survival.
You're argument unraveled when you brought up Ackerson. Who is even talking about Ackerson? Does the book even go into great detail about him? What's there to say?

You think that by not mentioning him, the characters condoned his methods? Hell, why not bring Darth Vader into this? He's about as relevant to this conversation as Ackerson, so why the hell not?

And the Elites? Where are the human sympathizers, you ask? All of the Arbiter's troops, right? And was the Arbiter a major character in this book? No, he wasn't. He made two appearances and was referenced several times by who? His enemies.

You're the same people that got mad when Halo 2 dropped and you had to play as Thel, aren't you?

And can someone please look up the word 'perspective." There were many, but they all had similar opinions. Up until this point, we've only seen Halsey from the perspective of surviving (that part is important) Spartans, and *ta-da!, Halsey herself.

And you want to talk about biased? Here you have a bunch of indoctrinated troops that more or less see her as their mother, and the woman herself. Wow, I wonder how she's going to be portrayed?

- Osman has feelings of abandonment/betrayal after nearly having her life ruined and washing out of S-II.

- Naomi is conflicted, and is confused after reading about the clones in Haley's journal.

- Vaz hates Halsey for abducting a Spartan, lying in order to acquire more Spartans, and fleeing from the war with the intention of hiding. He also takes it to heart because he obviously has a thing for Naomi.

- Mal doesn't hate anyone, because Mal only serves as Vaz's cool-headed foil. Don't believe me, check out page 404 of Glasslands: Mal brings up literally everything you're arguing, nearly word for word. There's your other perspective, and it's the only one we saw in books 1-5.

- Parangosky only tolerated Halsey because she needed her. She eventually found out she had been lied to about the clones, but she waited, because she still needed Halsey. She sees Halsey's use of the clones as a feeble attempt to make herself feel better, and the Vice Admiral finds it selfish and pathetic. Now that Halsey has committed some crimes that nearly confirm those feelings toward her, added to the fact that the bulk of the fighting is over and she doesn't need the doctor as much, Parangosky is finally going after her for years of decrepit and manipulation. She sees Halsey's attempt to replace the Spartan children with clones as high and mighty, and she has to remind Halsey that they're the same.

- Mendez is a hypocrite and a "good soldier who was just following orders," on par with the Na­zi SS. Everyone, save for Vaz, sees him that way, and I think it's eaten away at him. Does he feel ashamed for his involvement in S-III? Maybe, but I know his sudden loathing of Dr. Halsey has a lot to with the Parangosky-like shortcomings he sees in her.

Halsey is a useful Parangosky with a bigger ego and conscience.




[Edited on 08.16.2012 11:23 AM PDT]

  • 08.16.2012 11:22 AM PDT

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Posted by: Primo84
And the Elites? Where are the human sympathizers, you ask? All of the Arbiter's troops, right? And was the Arbiter a major character in this book? No, he wasn't. He made two appearances and was referenced several times by who? His enemies.

The Sangheili that "follow" Thel don't do so because they share his views on Humans, of which there really wasn't very much to follow admittedly. They follow him because they cannot continue the slaughter due to logistical reasons. Of the only two supporters shown, they both explicitly state this. It is further enforced by the almost unanimous atmosphere that Thel had to face when addressing the Mdama Council chamber. Overall, through the previosuly mentioned factos and Phillips descrpition of them in Chapter 2, there seems to be a lingering feeling in their society of resentment towards Humanity simply because they could not exterminate them, and thus if they stumbled upon a Forerunner fleet with which they could use to crush Humanity with, Thel's follower base would likely evaporate instantly. Hell, if they even emerged from the Schism in better shape that they had thought at the time, Earth would be in deep -blam!-.

I'm not sure who takes the blame for this: 343i or Traviss, because there was a lot of retcon being done the Sangheili's overall psyche and social values in order to shoehorn in this type of setting. What Jul says about the Sangheili solely judging themselves by their martial prowess is frankly wrong (And no, it wasn't his own personal value system, he said it was that of his entire species), and either 343i are retconning or Traviss didn't do enough research. It has been shown that the Sangheili had more depth than that and didn't judge a book by its cover...or are we seriously now considering that they gave the Grunts increased social standing for their martial prowess rather than for the tenacity that they showed for what they believed in? Rubbish. Because now it is easy to write your generic arrogant warrior race who judges solely by power and not conviction. The entire premise for Human Sympathizers in the first place was that they judged people for their convictions and beliefs and how well they fought for them. Human sympathizers doesn't even make sense in the context of the society Glasslands tries to present to us, because what do they sympathize with? In comparison to Sangheili, in the Sangheili's new system of values of judging solely by martial prowess, Humans are beneath them whereas they were equals before.

[Edited on 08.16.2012 12:14 PM PDT]

  • 08.16.2012 12:11 PM PDT

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My opinion of Halsey hasn't changed. I know Traviss was trying to make the reader view her in a bad light, as a war criminal who did bad stuff to children and blah blah blah., but at the end of the day she did it for the right reasons as far as I can see. In words of everyone's favourite Vulcan, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." I'd do the same thing in her shoes so I can't hate her for it.

  • 08.16.2012 12:26 PM PDT
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We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: grey101
1.Yet we hear nothing of hood or the rest of the UNSC making such a large deal about it. Not to mention ONI held fred during the battle of Earth which isn't different than kelly being gone other than "it was done legally".
Source on Fred. Book, page number, etc. I don't recall any of that happening.2.Um, Halsey wasn't acting like this during GoO and that situation far far more dramatic than walking in a bubble.I don't see the difference in that either since nobody really liked her to begin with so for it do be "different" because she is alone with them doesn't add up when she was surrounded by those types of people and ONI on Reach.She needed the Spartans to survive; irritating them wouldn't exactly help the chances of her survival. Even then, Kurt treads lightly so as not to irritate her and loose her cooperation, so there's the arrogant "-blam!- everyone else, I'm ONI head scientist" Halsey that we see in Reach and Glasslands.

And above everything else, she has her research to distract her on Reach. If there's one thing we know about Halsey, it's that her work comes second to nothing.

In the shield world, there's no enemy to fight, no project to complete. There's only time to think, and that's why all of the bad things come out. Her undesirable traits were always there, just more apparent in Glasslands because there were people around willing to point them out, because in that situation, where there's no research or anything to do of scientific nature, her presence was a hindrance.

I feel like you guys need to be beaten over the head with things before you get them. Picking up on subtlety isn't exactly this forum's strong suit.It didn't develop anything nor did it "drive a story". IF Ackerson was the focus of this novel then it would have been perfect but all this did was randomly bash a character because the author though it would be interesting.Elaborate, elaborate, elaborate. What do you actually know about Ackerson? How would his character have made this any better? Why do you hate Ackerson so much? Because Halsey does? Is Catherine Halsey a beacon of morality or something?

In what direction would you have liked to see this story go? The book is biased since it only offers one viewpoint and then tries saying that Ackerson's Suicide soldiers weren't that bad.I don't think you understand what 'biased' means.

The book offers multiple perspectives of Halsey, but you're mad because not all of these fictional characters hold the same black & white moral compass as you do.

Halsey has done terrible things and some people don't like that: deal with it. The outcome of those actions doesn't negate the fact that they were taken.

In the multiple times I've argued with you, you've proven one thing: this book went over your head. There wasn't enough action for you, and it cast a character you get wood for in a more realistic light.


It was in the Adjunct of reach that they were debriefing fred about what happened on reach during the battle of earth.


How did the spartans need her to survive when they needed her to get out? If halsey was somehow killed the spartans would be in a tough spot while she would be able to survive and escape without them. There was nothing dangerous in the bubble to be of concern to her. Um i picked up everything and more in the forerunner novels yet i seem so blind to glasslands o mighty one.


What is there to elaborate on Ackrsons ethics of the spartan III program? I don't know why you are trying to act like you are some one with god like understanding of the novel and everybody's concerns on the novel are meager. But i would calm down with the superiority complex and just have a light discussion. Do a chart on the spartan II/III program and see how many lines ackerson cut compared to halsey. See how much he cared for his spartans compared to halsey.
This book would have been much better if it was showing the pros and cons of ackerson instead of trying to make it seem like halsey did this random project all by herself without any military backing or support.



The book offers multiple perspectives of Halsey, but you're mad because not all of these fictional characters hold the same black & white moral compass as you do.


I don't understand who told you that or where you got the eyesight to see inside my head. I am "mad" because the slander is unnecessary and non consistent with what was established prior. Can i get some quotes on the "multiple viewpoints"? i don't recall anybody in the novel support halsey and showing the pros of her actions, i saw nobody state "we wouldn't have won the war without Spartans". I don't recall anybody sticking up for halsey and trying to justify if not rationalize her actions.



You really need to calm down with the whole "i know you and i have a far better understand of this than you do" since you don't even get the point that people are trying to get across and prefer to stick with the notion that people are complaining because they don't have the brain matter to understand.

  • 08.16.2012 12:59 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
There was nothing dangerous in the bubble to be of concern to her. Um i picked up everything and more in the forerunner novels yet i seem so blind to glasslands o mighty one.
So is Halsey a Spartan? And here I thought she was a sixty-something year old woman. She fled to Onyx because she was afraid and wanted to protect her Spartans. If not for her Spartans, she would have died within minutes on Onyx.

She needed them as much as they needed her, although I think she may have needed them slightly more.What is there to elaborate on Ackrsons ethics of the spartan III program? I don't know why you are trying to act like you are some one with god like understanding of the novel and everybody's concerns on the novel are meager. But i would calm down with the superiority complex and just have a light discussion. Do a chart on the spartan II/III program and see how many lines ackerson cut compared to halsey. See how much he cared for his spartans compared to halsey.How many chapters of the every Halo novel has Ackerson been in? I want you to answer this question. Don't dodge it like you do every other one, or give a vague answer.

Ackerson is a supporting character and is of little relevance. In what little we know about him, he ruthless and his Halsey's professional rival. Aside from the armor, what corners was he specifically cutting? Shorter training period? If we're to take everything at face value, which you have always seemed to do, then we know that Kurt's training regimen was more intense than the S-IIs.

Can you refute that with facts? And by facts, I mean don't mean ego-driven statements about Halsey claiming they're "sub-standard."
This book would have been much better if it was showing the pros and cons of ackerson instead of trying to make it seem like halsey did this random project all by herself without any military backing or support.Nobody is trying to say that.

Read the book over again. Read my post over again. Everyone has their individual reasons for hating Halsey, and from each of their perspectives (save for Mendez), they all make sense. I don't understand who told you that or where you got the eyesight to see inside my head.Your arguement always amounts to "but it saved humanity!" No grey area, no room for debate. She could have glassed an entire planet herself, but so long as it was for the greater good, nobody is allowed to speak a bad word.slanderJesus christ, they're not real people. is unnecessary and non consistent with what was established prior. Can i get some quotes on the "multiple viewpoints"?i don't recall anybody in the novel support halsey and showing the pros of her actions, i saw nobody state "we wouldn't have won the war without Spartans".MAL. MAL SAID IT. I GAVE YOU THE DAMN PAGE NUMBER.

This is why I talk down to you, grey. You can't even address my points!with the notion that people are complaining because they don't have the brain matter to understand.In your case, you apparently don't.

Answer my questions, address my point head on, and then I'll stop speaking to you like you're a child...maybe.

  • 08.16.2012 1:23 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Glasslands portrayed pretty much everybody completely differently from the way they were in earlier books. It's like they didn't even bother finding out what each character was like.

  • 08.16.2012 1:41 PM PDT


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Glasslands portrayed pretty much everybody completely differently from the way they were in earlier books. It's like they didn't even bother finding out what each character was like.
Travis said that she did very little to no resreach on the Halo lore because she wanted to write Glasslands from unbias view...that book is very unbias.



-Nate'

  • 08.16.2012 1:44 PM PDT


Posted by: Primo84
You're argument unraveled when you brought up Ackerson. Who is even talking about Ackerson? Does the book even go into great detail about him? What's there to say?


Since Vaz is clearly okay with the S3's being young AND suicide soldiers, I can only assume his 'moral compass' is seriously fubar.

You think that by not mentioning him, the characters condoned his methods? Hell, why not bring Darth Vader into this? He's about as relevant to this conversation as Ackerson, so why the hell not?

Above statement. Parangosky hails Ackerson I believe, and says he gets a heroes treatment in death while Halsey just gets a name on a plaque.

And the Elites? Where are the human sympathizers, you ask? All of the Arbiter's troops, right? And was the Arbiter a major character in this book? No, he wasn't. He made two appearances and was referenced several times by who? His enemies.

As Anton said, of the two named characters who support Thel, both support peace ONLY until the Elites are strong enough to wipe out humanity. Until then, they'll live at peace. There is no indication of ANYBODY wanting a lasting peace. Thel himself can be viewed that way as well. They don't go "I personally think the humans need wiped out... but the numbers of those who respect humanity and want a lasting peace is too great." it's "I support peace, merely because we can't wipe out humanity this instant."

You're the same people that got mad when Halo 2 dropped and you had to play as Thel, aren't you?

While I preferred playing as chief, no, I did not get mad at all when halo 2 arrived and Thel was a playable character.

And can someone please look up the word 'perspective." There were many, but they all had similar opinions. Up until this point, we've only seen Halsey from the perspective of surviving (that part is important) Spartans, and *ta-da!, Halsey herself.

So magically every other viewpoint is negative?

And you want to talk about biased? Here you have a bunch of indoctrinated troops that more or less see her as their mother, and the woman herself. Wow, I wonder how she's going to be portrayed?

Only, Halsey is not the only person we've seen perspectives of. Hell, IIRC, Lord Hood outright verbally smashed Ackerson into the ground for being disrespectful to Halsey.

- Osman has feelings of abandonment/betrayal after nearly having her life ruined and washing out of S-II.

Yet was fully rehabilitated, and able to live a normal life. No thanks to Halsey's medical research.

- Naomi is conflicted, and is confused after reading about the clones in Haley's journal.

And before then? Never says anything good about Halsey

- Vaz hates Halsey for abducting a Spartan, lying in order to acquire more Spartans, and fleeing from the war with the intention of hiding. He also takes it to heart because he obviously has a thing for Naomi.

Yet he is also perfectly fine with the Spartan 3's being both young and suicide soldiers. Makes perfect sense right? Hate Halsey, be fine with your boss sending teenagers on suicide missions.

- Mal doesn't hate anyone, because Mal only serves as Vaz's cool-headed foil. Don't believe me, check out page 404 of Glasslands: Mal brings up literally everything you're arguing, nearly word for word. There's your other perspective, and it's the only one we saw in books 1-5.

Might've missed that point, but obviously he didn't make that much an impact.

- Parangosky only tolerated Halsey because she needed her. She eventually found out she had been lied to about the clones, but she waited, because she still needed Halsey. She sees Halsey's use of the clones as a feeble attempt to make herself feel better, and the Vice Admiral finds it selfish and pathetic. Now that Halsey has committed some crimes that nearly confirm those feelings toward her, added to the fact that the bulk of the fighting is over and she doesn't need the doctor as much, Parangosky is finally going after her for years of decrepit and manipulation. She sees Halsey's attempt to replace the Spartan children with clones as high and mighty, and she has to remind Halsey that they're the same.

Only, ALL previous lore implied or stated the clones were known by all of ONI, aka, part of the plan. She hates Halsey because Halsey had the GUTS to give the families CLOSURE, instead of being forced to wonder forever "What happened to my child"

Also, I have to wonder how the -blam!- clones escaped Parangosky's notice for so long, since she BOASTED about having hacked into ALL of Halsey's personal files, implying she had done it long ago.

She outright got turned into the Illusive man's retarded sister.

- Mendez is a hypocrite and a "good soldier who was just following orders," on par with the Na­zi SS. Everyone, save for Vaz, sees him that way, and I think it's eaten away at him. Does he feel ashamed for his involvement in S-III? Maybe, but I know his sudden loathing of Dr. Halsey has a lot to with the Parangosky-like shortcomings he sees in her.

Mendez was utterly changed, and Traviss outright said she rewrote/rebuilt characters. He went from being proud in his part of the Spartan programs and their results against the UNSC's enemies, to suddenly hating everything about the S2's. Meanwhile, he acts like his training of at least 600+ people, BARELY teenagers(who all got sent to suicide missions), isn't worth notice or being MORE ashamed with himself then with Halsey.

Halsey is a useful Parangosky with a bigger ego and conscience.

Parangosky has the bigger ego, and I'll take a damn Conscience over stupidity any day of the week.

  • 08.16.2012 1:46 PM PDT