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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Since Vaz is clearly okay with the S3's being young AND suicide soldiers, I can only assume his 'moral compass' is seriously fubar.The other Spartans - the ones they called the Spartan-IIIs - were huddled in the senior rates' mess with Devereaux, who was plying them with coffee and a mountain of snacks. So these were the expendable suicide troops, the colonial canon fodder. Damn, they were teenagers: none of them could have been older than eighteen. If they'd been pumped full of growth hormones and ceramics like Naomi, then it hadn't worked. They were just regular-sized kids. One of the girls was so small and fresh-face that she didn't look old enough to be out of school, let alone given firearms. She sttared at Vaz like a malevolent ferret and didn't say a word.
And we're the good guys, are we?
...blah blah blah, dialogue that doesn't matter all that much...
It was just making Vaz angrier by the second. For a moment, he got a glimpse of why so many of the colonies hated Earth. He'd had enough of this Spartan crap.
That was the first Vaz had encountered the S-IIIs, and if I'm not mistaken, the second time they were even mentioned in a Kilo-Five chapter. The first time was on page 216, and Osman only said it in passing.
I like to think it's entirely possible that he didn't throw a fit about S-III because meeting the child soldiers he'd been reeling from was a bit much to take in. That, and they were in the room at the time.Parangosky hails Ackerson I believe, and says he gets a heroes treatment in death while Halsey just gets a name on a plaque."Ackerson has one too. Galling as it must be for you, he died a hero." - Parangosky, pg. 435
Do you recall how Ackerson died? He was captured after a defeat against the Covenant Loyalists on Mars. He was tortured, but managed to send the Covenant on a wild goose chase to find an artifact that didn't exist, slowing some of their efforts on Earth. When it was all said and done, he laughed in his captors' faces and was beheaded.
The guy was a bastard, no doubt, with a record as bad as, if not worse than Halsey. However, Parangosky was right; he did kind of die a hero's death.
In light of what I just said, Ackerson is never even mentioned among Kilo-Five. For all Vaz knows, Halsey was responsible for both Spartan project. Sure, Osman knows the truth, which is also why she's wasn't the one standing outside Halsey's cell, locked and loaded.
I like to think Osman doesn't say much about S-III because it's not essential to the mission, and above all, she never had a personal stake in it. With Halsey, it's all personal. All of these characters are flawed and act in their own interests at some point. I don't know if Osman failed to make the distinction between S-II and S-III and who ran them to her squad intentionally, but if she did, it may have been to groom those under her command to hate Halsey.
And yes, grey, it's completely realistic for Osman to resent Halsey, rehabilitated or not. Sure, Halsey may have developed the therapy to rehabilitate the Spartan washouts, but those were still years of their lives that were taken away from them.
Elites?I agree that the Elites aren't written very consistently in Halo lore. You have that one from The Flood that was an absolute coward at times, and then you have the more commonly-accepted ones from The Cole Protocol that were honor-bound, and the ones from Glasslands fall somewhere in between.
So I'll give you that.
So magically every other viewpoint is negative?Keep in mind that the majority of those viewpoints are heavily influenced by two people that really don't like Halsey. (Osman and Parangosky)
The others aren't ONI Spooks by nature, so when only presented one (and admittedly unflattering) side of the story, of course they're going to be high and mighty.
They weren't alive during the insurrection. In their eyes, what could be worse than the Covenant? The only reason they know for fighting is survival, so anything less than that is going to seem pretty insignificant, you follow?
And again, and I know it's cheesy, Vaz has something going on for Naomi, so everything he learns about S-II is worsened by that.Only, Halsey is not the only person we've seen perspectives of. Hell, IIRC, Lord Hood outright verbally smashed Ackerson into the ground for being disrespectful to Halsey.And Hood thinks Halsey is dead, right? Parangosky and a few select others in ONI are the only ones that know of Halsey's survival.
They're not going to do a round table of every character in Halo lore to present their opinion on Catherine Halsey. Yet was fully rehabilitated, and able to live a normal life. No thanks to Halsey's medical research.Read above somewhere.And before then? Never says anything good about HalseyOn page 112, after asking of Master Chief's whereabouts, she then asks if Halsey's been recovered.
On page 347, after learning that Halsey had very blatantly committed war crimes and ran off with billions of dollars worth of UNSC property, Naomi says, "Ma'am, Dr. Halsey would have had a good reason for doing all that. Do we know what explanation she's given?" (She's giving her the benefit of doubt)
On page 351, she says "Dr. Halsey was everything to us. We thought the world of her. But I can't tell you what I feel right now."
On the very next page, she says to Vaz and Mal, "Don't take it out on Halsey. Please. I know you're all angry, but don't do anything dumb."
Sounds conflicted to me.
Yet he is also perfectly fine with the Spartan 3's being both young and suicide soldiers. Makes perfect sense right? Hate Halsey, be fine with your boss sending teenagers on suicide missions.Again, it can be assumed that he doesn't know who Ackerson is, and may possibly even assume that Halsey is behind both generations of Spartans.
Might've missed that point, but obviously he didn't make that much an impact.Upon further reading, Mal seems to be the only one able to stomach any of what he learns as a new resident of the intelligence community.
"If she's right, then we used child soldiers," Phillips said. "We kidnapped them from their families before performing experiments on them. Christ...and this is my government?"
"You think anyone would care as long as we won?" (Mal)
"Actually, yes, they would." Phillips was doing his embarrassing gesture again, one arm folded across his chest and his free hand pinching his top lip, as if he worried about disagreeing. "I think the public would give a pretty big damn about that."
"Don't bank on it," Mal said. He seemed underwhelmed by it, which wasn't like him at all. "Outrage fatigue set in years ago. The colonies are a long way from Sydney. And they weren't always on our side."(215)
And then there's the bit toward the end, on page 404, where Mal finishes his beer with Chief Mendez, and tries to justify S-II using the exact arguments commonly used here.
I'm running out of characters, so I'll leave that one up to you.Only, ALL previous lore implied or stated the clones were known by all of ONI, aka, part of the plan. She hates Halsey because Halsey had the GUTS to give the families CLOSURE, instead of being forced to wonder forever "What happened to my child"Eh, keep in mind whose perspective the previous lore is written in. I don't have TFoR on hand, but I'm pretty sure the clones are only addressed in Halsey's inner monologue.
And yes, Halsey feels guilty, as she should. However, she's frigid, ambitious, and a control freak. None of that is new. Sure, she feels bad on the inside, but this is a woman who would have rather worked Kurt for details on S-III while dangling her cooperation above his head while their lives were on the line than play nice.
Sure, she feels bad on the inside, but all anyone else can see is a stone cold -blam!-. (And although it pains me to reference it, let us not forget Reach, eh?
It's pretty easy to see why those around her might think she did it to salvage her own humanity, and the jury is still out on that.Also, I have to wonder how the -blam!- clones escaped Parangosky's notice for so long, since she BOASTED about having hacked into ALL of Halsey's personal files, implying she had done it long ago.Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you there. That was a slip up, and I like to think that, being the genius she is, Halsey did hide the clones for some time.
However, some further reading to those who think it's all about the clones, check out page 49. Parangosky is legitimately pissed about Halsey's abduction and fleeing to Onyx. She's obviously been holding onto the knowledge about the clones, and now it's just the cherry on top. Onyx was the tipping point for the Vice Admiral's patience.
Mendez was utterly changedMendez is another one of those characters that I feel we didn't hear from enough to say that. Hypocrite? Oh hell yes. He has as much blood on his hands as Halsey, and I like to think my Nazi SS comparison holds true with how he claims innocence by saying he was following orders and going with the flow. Mal tries to rationalize that at one point too. (One more point for Mal being pro-SII)
I hate how everyone gives him a pass though. Vaz puts up somewhat of a fuss, but oh man, don't cross a senior NCO, even if he has participated in inhuman activities! (Traviss took that respect for the rank too far, in my opinion.)
Parangosky has the bigger ego, and I'll take a damn Conscience over stupidity any day of the week.Again, they're both despicable people and full-blooded ONI, it's just that Halsey thinks she's above that. High and mighty, etc.