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This topic has moved here: Subject: So after finishing Glasslands, what do you think of Halsey?
  • Subject: So after finishing Glasslands, what do you think of Halsey?
Subject: So after finishing Glasslands, what do you think of Halsey?
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Except no one in universe, excluding the prelude string writer, has any idea that the Assembly exists. If Six found the data-pads canonically, he might, but that secret died with the rest of Noble team. The Assembly wanted the humans to think it was their own ideas and not the Assembly's influence.

  • 08.19.2012 7:57 AM PDT

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Posted by: Xd00999
The Assembly wanted the humans to think it was their own ideas and not the Assembly's influence.


I thought I'd made that clear with the phrasing I chose (seeding etc).
If not, my bad. I certainly never meant to imply that anyone actually knew about the Assembly. Although in Halsey's journal I do believe there's a section in which she contemplated the plausibility of storing AIs in Slipspace or grouping them together. Another potentially planted idea along the lines of a part of the Assembly exposing itself to be researched by humanity (yet more subtle than a blatant reveal)?

Anyway, less about the Assembly's functions. Kind of getting off topic with them; I only meant to reference them to imply that Halsey is as much a tool for others as various other characters also are.

  • 08.19.2012 8:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: MATCLANMy thoughts exactly, although I'm not well-read on The Committee or Assembly. I gave the whole thing a once over a while back around the time Reach came out, and I thought it was interesting.

I hope it's not a throwaway plot device.

  • 08.19.2012 9:22 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: HipiO7
I'm currently reading Glasslands and am not even 100 pages in, but so far, I'm not really liking Halsey. She's obsessed with her redemption and cleaning her name. She believes she deserves authority and respect from the both Spartan's just because she invented the first class. Although Parangosky's obsession with her, is not much better.

Mendez was right to reprimand her. She's not in her environment and she can't be the leader here.


What about Mendez considering letting her starve?


Yeah, haven't gotten that far. Haven't been able to read lately.

  • 08.19.2012 9:50 AM PDT

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Posted by: Primo84
I hope it's not a throwaway plot device.


Likewise. I hope that they tie in to the Reclaimer Trilogy and its surrounding fiction as much as Halo 3's Terminals have so far tied in with the Forerunner Trilogy and should tie in with the Reclaimer Trilogy.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Assembly is a series of extremely advanced AIs operating from within slipspace created by humanity prior to losing the Forerunner War.

  • 08.19.2012 9:57 AM PDT
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She lied to Hood to give her Spartan IIs so they could hide out in Onyx with her. Even though her creations may have won the war, she deserved to be reprimanded for "actions benefiting the enemy" by preventing Kelly, Linda,Fred and Will fight on Earth.


  • 08.19.2012 10:53 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: MATCLAN

Posted by: Xd00999
The Assembly wanted the humans to think it was their own ideas and not the Assembly's influence.


I thought I'd made that clear with the phrasing I chose (seeding etc).
If not, my bad. I certainly never meant to imply that anyone actually knew about the Assembly. Although in Halsey's journal I do believe there's a section in which she contemplated the plausibility of storing AIs in Slipspace or grouping them together. Another potentially planted idea along the lines of a part of the Assembly exposing itself to be researched by humanity (yet more subtle than a blatant reveal)?

Anyway, less about the Assembly's functions. Kind of getting off topic with them; I only meant to reference them to imply that Halsey is as much a tool for others as various other characters also are.

If I remember correctly, the Assembly is shocked to realize Halsey came up with the idea of slipspace AIs herself. They were quite excite about the potential to ascend to that level.

  • 08.19.2012 11:04 AM PDT


Posted by: GuN
She lied to Hood to give her Spartan IIs so they could hide out in Onyx with her. Even though her creations may have won the war, she deserved to be reprimanded for "actions benefiting the enemy" by preventing Kelly, Linda,Fred and Will fight on Earth.




What lie? IIRC, she merely asked for Spartan aid. Not "Hey, found forerunner tech stash, send Spartans to secure it."

And, even then, seeing how if she did say such a thing, when they get out, they HAD a forerunner tech stash with them....

  • 08.19.2012 11:04 AM PDT

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Posted by: GuN
She lied to Hood to give her Spartan IIs so they could hide out in Onyx with her. Even though her creations may have won the war, she deserved to be reprimanded for "actions benefiting the enemy" by preventing Kelly, Linda,Fred and Will fight on Earth.


She didn't lie to Hood. Now she didn't say "I'm saving these Spartans.", but she said she needed Spartans to secure technological assets on Onyx, which ONI was aware of. And what did we find? Technological assets. Hood didn't have to give her the Spartans, but he did.

Now if you want to reprimand Halsey, you have to reprimand ONI and Parangoksy for keeping Blue Team from fighting DURING the Covenant invasion of Earth just to interrogate Fred.

  • 08.19.2012 11:13 AM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: GuN
She lied to Hood to give her Spartan IIs so they could hide out in Onyx with her. Even though her creations may have won the war, she deserved to be reprimanded for "actions benefiting the enemy" by preventing Kelly, Linda,Fred and Will fight on Earth.


She didn't lie to Hood. Now she didn't say "I'm saving these Spartans.", but she said she needed Spartans to secure technological assets on Onyx, which ONI was aware of. And what did we find? Technological assets. Hood didn't have to give her the Spartans, but he did.

Now if you want to reprimand Halsey, you have to reprimand ONI and Parangoksy for keeping Blue Team from fighting DURING the Covenant invasion of Earth just to interrogate Fred.


Yeah, Parangosky pretty much is just -blam!-ing about something she did NOTHING to stop.

Just like the datadrops. They -blam!- about the LNOS being destroyed, but never tried to stop the operation or redirect it.

Edit: Yeah... you know, Arresting halsey for that is a lie basically. Because when they came back into real-space, they HAD forerunner tech assets.

Also reprimand ONI for keeping the Infinity and the S4's from fighting on Earth.

[Edited on 08.19.2012 12:43 PM PDT]

  • 08.19.2012 12:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: grey101
I don't care if you are hostile to me
You obviously do if you feel the need to call me on it. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by doing it either, it's not like I make it a secret: I think you're dumb. You don't know how to argue, and you don't seem to understand anything that not made blatantly obvious to you.I tend not to read post that aren't addressed to meYou don't tend to read posts that are addressed to you.Just because you tend not to look at details doesn't mean everybody else does the sameI post direct quotes from the book, page numbers, etc. You do the equivalent of plugging your ears and screaming "I'm right. I can't hear you," when provided any evidence contrary to your opinion.

All you post are general statements that only serve to highlight just how poor your reading comprehension is."these people aren't real and they don't matter".You use word like "slander," as if these are real people, and we should be standing outside Karen Traviss' house with torches and pitchforks for daring to sully the good name of dear Catherine Halsey.

Should we boycott George Lucas for killing off Vader in Episode IV?

Grow up, child.What do you mean "where was the point"? If they are trying to make Halsey so damn bad they should know the reason's behind the projects and know the difference between them.You've completely misinterpreted what I said, and it only goes to showcase your poor reading comprehension.

The ODSTs, and general service members, only know of Spartans and S-II; they're completely in the dark about the details. (Because they're classified. I shouldn't have to point this out, but..you know...it's you.) When Osman explains who Halsey/BB/Whoever describe the Spartans and who Halsey is, they not one make the distinction between S-II and S-III, and that they were projects ran by two different people. They have the same name, are designated in sequence, and it would be logical for one with no other knowledge to assume that they're one in the same. (I imagine they might also think there are Spartan-I's out there somewhere. Technically, there aren't...technically.)Which is a fault on Karens part and fuels the idea that this is a one sided novel that bashes halsey without addressing the wrong others have done and the details behind the events that were done.So you're of the mindset that, because it explored the morality of Halsey's actions, it should explore the morality of all those who acted like her? That'd be quite a lengthy book.

You do understand how storytelling works, right? You can't just interrupt the story to address every somewhat relevant plot point from the overarching fictional universe; that make it very confusing to follow and obliterate the flow of the story.Lol, you are trying to rationalize what ackerson died because he died "a hero's death"? incredible.Nice straw man, chief. I'm going to let you do the work and look up what a straw man argument is.

For the record, what he did was heroic. What Halsey accomplished did save humanity. However, those results don't make their past actions and the means they used to accomplish those ends any less inhuman.

The ends justified the means, but they were some horrifying means.
I'm not so foolish to think this
will absolve me of my sins. One life
hardly balances billions.
That is from mendicant bias, a machine that regonizes nearly nothing he will do will ever make what he did any better or give it any reasoning.Super.The same applies for Ackerson; Him leading the covenant on a little goose chase doesn't make up for the children that he sent to their deaths without any care.You're right, and it doesn't. I never said that it does.

You're aware that Ackerson, while likely sending them to their deaths, was sending them on actual military missions against priority targets, right? He wasn't just lining them up and shooting them in the head.

Sabotage and subterfuge are just as important in war as conventional combat. The missions of the S-IIIs slowed the Covenant war effort and spared millions/billions of lives.

What if the Covenant's war production was running at full capacity and the Covenant Loyalists had more ships at their disposal during The Battle of The Ark? (Might be a bad example, seeing as Shadow of Intent managed to defeat a force with triple their numbers, but you get the point...hopefully.)I love how you are seriously trying to make it seem like what halsey is getting is right despite the guilt she has and the fact she did do everything she could for her spartans.What is she getting? She gets to live on in indentured servitude to ONI conducting more scientific research. It's not ideal, but I like to think it's better than a firing squad, especially considering the crimes she committed at the end of First Strike/beginning of Ghosts of Onyx.

And if the things she did to complete the Spartan-II Project come to light? Why is that such a horrible thing? They did happen. She's an adult, she has to own up to her actions, and if the UEG or the public don't like it, so be it.

Then again, it's not like she'll receive punishment for it; she's legally dead.[quote]Ackerson gets a "get out of jail free" pass because he just played hid and seek with the covenant? something that surely got peopled killed in that little game? That is utterly ridiculous and filled with hypocrisy.
Ackerson was tortured for information and then beheaded. His actions near his death led the Covenant on a chase while they could've been doing what they originally intended to do: murder civilians.

Is that brutal enough for you?




1.I love how you always act like you know me or what i am thinking. The point of calling you out is so you can stop with the petty insults and focus on the topic as you clearly can
t support your point alone if you need to make ad homeinem remarks on a random member you have some random issue with.

You think i am "dumb" yet i can speak without insulting somebody you are better than me if intelligence is based of the amount of insults and remarks one can give. "You don't know how to argue" simply because i refuse to call you remarks? Seriously, you are acting immature and it isn't doing you any good.



2. You just said not everybody pays attention to the details in light of a huge revelation yet you are saying my reading comprehension should be question because i pay attention? " evidence contrary to your opinion. Which is the issue here, you aren't going to by able to change my opinion not to mention you shouldn't be arguing against somebody's opinion in such a matter and with the reasoning you are.
Not to mention you are singling me out more than anybody yet my stance isn't different from most others in this thread so clearly you aren't here for my "opinion".

3.Because i feel like she didn't do a good job of writing because it is rather one sided and there was no perspective. That isn't childish and you seriously can''t call me that since you are the one resorting to attacks to keep your "argument" up. You are just mad about something i did/said months if not years ago and just want to try taking it out on me now. Which isn't a new thing.


4. It isn't my reading comprehension it's your motive to attack. I said several times that the lack of perspective and backstory is an issue in the novel which ties in to the Spartan IIs and IIIs. If you seriously think i have a mental issue yet keep trying to explain something to me which i don't have the intelligence to understand then you are the slow one not me. So stop attacking and start trying to see my point.


5. How in the world would it be a "lengthy book" to briefly explain the history of the project? I think the innes got a brief passage in "The life of cole" and i am sure that ORION didn't get half the novel of "TFoR". It would probably take two pages to visibly explain everything if not a "So they sat us down and explained the history to us" would have sufficed.
You are over exaggerating again.


6. So you aren't trying to rationalize Ackerson yet you say what he did was indeed heroic? As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't try pointing out others fallacies unless you are 100 percent sure you haven't done any yourself. In which everybody makes fallacies.

I never tried saying that i have said several times that two sides of the story should have been included so the reader can pick their stance on the matters. We know that Ackerson is worse than Halsey yet everybody now thinks Halsey is worse because nobody knows about Ackerson despite GoO being out for years now.



7. So you are trying to say no civilians were murdered whatsoever when the covenant were on that chase?
Um, a single adult being beheaded doesn't add up to the hundreds of children (most under 10) being slaughtered.

  • 08.19.2012 4:19 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: Avatar Korra
It doesn't matter, she still broke the law.


Hmmm;

Break the law.

Or face extinction?

Hard choice eh?

  • 08.19.2012 6:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: cameo_cream

Posted by: Avatar Korra
It doesn't matter, she still broke the law.


Hmmm;

Break the law.

Or face extinction?

Hard choice eh?


Not to mention the UNSC approached halsey for the spartan II program and everything she did had to get approval and somebody was always watching her. They denied several requests of hers on behalf of their spartans yet they used the money they didn't have to build the infinity with technology we shouldn't understand.

Yet halsey is the bad one not the government.

  • 08.19.2012 6:32 PM PDT

Just remember that no matter how terrible you feel, or how much you want to let go, there are people who care about you and love you.

Halsey got what was coming to her, you can't avoid justice for that long and expect to get away.

  • 08.19.2012 7:05 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: cameo_cream

Posted by: Avatar Korra
It doesn't matter, she still broke the law.


Hmmm;

Break the law.

Or face extinction?

Hard choice eh?


Not to mention the UNSC approached halsey for the spartan II program and everything she did had to get approval and somebody was always watching her. They denied several requests of hers on behalf of their spartans yet they used the money they didn't have to build the infinity with technology we shouldn't understand.

Yet halsey is the bad one not the government.


Yeah. That Paragonsky (Spelling?) chick seemed to just be covering her tracks when I read Glasslands. She needed somebody to blame for her mistakes and Halsey had done a few things which were necessary, but weren't entirely legal.

  • 08.19.2012 7:06 PM PDT

The funny thing is, I believe Parangosky was planning on releasing all the dirty details to the admiral board, and taking the blame herself so Osman has a clean slate.


An amusing concept to me, as "taking the blame so the next person Has a clean slate" typically (at least, whenever I hear it) implies the next person will be handling things far better/more for good. Which, if I understand glasslands right, Osman is NOT intending to do, and basically wants to be Parangosky 2.0.

  • 08.19.2012 7:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101
you clearly cant support your point
I support my points with facts from the novels, backed up with page numbers, and then I use those to speculate.

I get angry with you because you tend to ignore those and endlessly repeat whatever drivel you're pounding your head against the wall over.You think i am "dumb"I think we've covered that.yet i can speak without insulting somebodyI'm not sure what politeness has to do with intelligence, but okay."You don't know how to argue" simply because i refuse to call you remarks?You don't know how to argue because you're incapable of refuting any points without some uncited, generalized misinterpretation of the source material.2. You just said not everybody pays attention to the details in light of a huge revelation yet you are saying my reading comprehension should be question because i pay attention? "Your reading comprehension is poor, because I was talking about the characters, not you.you shouldn't be arguing against somebody's opinion in such a matter and with the reasoning you are.I like to think I started off in this thread as the jerk, but you're doing my work for me and justifying every insult I've thrown your way.

Good show, grey. Good show.
Not to mention you are singling me out more than anybody yet my stance isn't different from most others in this thread so clearly you aren't here for my "opinion".Others are presenting their opinions in a coherent fashion; you're not. I hate to stoop to this level, but even your deteriorating sentence structure is beginning to make your replies a chore to read.

Why is it that I'm capable of a civil exchange with Cmdr Whatshisname, but not you?3. That isn't childishYou're using real-world legal terms to describe the interpretation of a person that doesn't exist, as if the interpreter of said person, the author, has actually committed some sort of legitimate offense.

Chill out, it's a book.
attacks to keep your "argument" up.Nope.

The insults are just salt in the wound. I've already pointed out countless times what's holding up my argument, but you're still refusing to address them.You are just mad about something i did/said months if not years ago and just want to try taking it out on me now.I'm mad that you've somehow devolved from what was already a poor style of posting and debate.4. It isn't my reading comprehension it's your motive to attack.And what's your motive? Ignore every legitimate point I try to make and focus solely on the (deserved) insults I said to you? Is that it?I said several times that the lack of perspectiveAnd I've suggested that you look up what the word "perspective" means. There is no single shared perspective in this book, as everyone has reached their conclusions for their own individual reasons, which I've explained, which you've ignored.

...as predicted.5. How in the world would it be a "lengthy book" to briefly explain the history of the project?It would slow down the pace of the story, and I like to think the assumption was made that those who are reading the book are familiar with the backstory.

Within the actual book, a rehash of previous events benefits none of the parties originally privy to that information. It doesn't serve their best interests nor further their personal agendas. I've explained this already.I think the innes got a brief passage in "The life of cole" and i am sure that ORION didn't get half the novel of "TFoR".Because a recanting of lore actually fit in with the narrative style of the story.You are over exaggerating again.Subtlety seems to usually be lost on you, so I like to think I'm forced to.6. So you aren't trying to rationalize Ackerson yet you say what he did was indeed heroic?Ackerson's death was heroic. The series of events leading up to his death were heroic.

The role he played in S-III was immoral and criminal, but it yielded desirable results comparable to Halsey.As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't try pointing out others fallacies unless you are 100 percent sure you haven't done any yourself.As a general rule of thumb, you should make sure you understand what your opposing party is trying to say before you go and waste your time writing something absolutely meaningless.I never tried saying that i have said several times that two sides of the story should have been included so the reader can pick their stance on the matters.But you just said it above. You've been complaining this entire time about a lack of differing opinions among the characters, and that the book is "biased."We know that Ackerson is worse than Halsey yet everybody now thinks Halsey is worse because nobody knows about Ackerson despite GoO being out for years now.See, this is the kind of generalized statement I expect you to make, and it's a logic fallacy at that.

Why? Why was Ackerson worse than Halsey? Before you go and attack whatever position you think I'm taking, notice that I'm not taking one. Right now, I'm merely asking you to produce some kind of factual content that supports your stance.
7. So you are trying to say no civilians were murdered whatsoever when the covenant were on that chase?Uh, no.

It did, however, reallocate valuable enemy resources from their primary objective to something nonexistent, resulting in the destruction of an enemy warship, which undoubtedly carried numerous enemy combatants.

I like to think eliminating the enemy is a pretty important goal.Um, a single adult being beheaded doesn't add up to the hundreds of children (most under 10) being slaughtered.I never said it did.

I was merely commenting that the torture and beheading of a man who had ruined countless lives was probably as good as it was going to get in terms of karma. (He can only dies once, so at least it was brutal.)

[Edited on 08.19.2012 10:19 PM PDT]

  • 08.19.2012 10:18 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The funny thing is, I believe Parangosky was planning on releasing all the dirty details to the admiral board, and taking the blame herself so Osman has a clean slate.


An amusing concept to me, as "taking the blame so the next person Has a clean slate" typically (at least, whenever I hear it) implies the next person will be handling things far better/more for good. Which, if I understand glasslands right, Osman is NOT intending to do, and basically wants to be Parangosky 2.0.
Eh, I don't know.

As shady as Parangosky is, I like to think carrying such secrets to the grave is a pretty heavy burden. Although it is rather convenient that she's waited until the latter portion of her life to do so. On the flip side, it's probably just because the war is finally over.

I don't know.

  • 08.19.2012 10:22 PM PDT


Posted by: GuN
She lied to Hood to give her Spartan IIs so they could hide out in Onyx with her. Even though her creations may have won the war, she deserved to be reprimanded for "actions benefiting the enemy" by preventing Kelly, Linda,Fred and Will fight on Earth.


Last I checked, like everyone else has said, Halsey never said that she found Forerunner teach until the S-II's got there. And another thing, if Earth did fall, we would have no one to blame but Lord Hood. You people understand that Halsey is not a soldier or anything like that? So Hood could have easily said no and kept it at that.



-Nate'

  • 08.20.2012 8:55 AM PDT


Posted by: Rayzor1995
Halsey got what was coming to her, you can't avoid justice for that long and expect to get away.
So then EVERYONE WHO WORKS FOR ONI SECTION 3 SHOULD BE SHOOT, you kids need to get the point, Halsey didn't start the S-II project alone and in her basement. I'm sure there were THOUSANDS of people who worked in the S-II project, but they were all saints and Halsey was the devil right? You people seem to forget about tFoR where before half the S-II's washed out, Halsey wanted to wait longer until they could make it safer thus more living through it instead of the high number of loses. But guess what? Your heros known as ONI would have kicked Halsey off the project and giving to someone who didn't understand or who didn't care for the kids.



-Nate'

  • 08.20.2012 9:01 AM PDT

Did the wrong things for mostly the right reasons.

  • 08.20.2012 11:23 AM PDT
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Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Halsey didn't do anything wrong at all, this lolTraviss basically rebuilt the characters to specifically hate Dr. halsey, not expanding their characters.

Loltraviss is trying to implement her opinion about Halsey by putting un necessary things in Glasslands. That's why this book was so terrible, it spits on Halo brand itself.

Halsey saved the Humanity from extinction. That is pretty big accomplishment to have, no?

  • 08.20.2012 12:44 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
Halsey didn't do anything wrong at all, this lolTraviss basically rebuilt the characters to specifically hate Dr. halsey, not expanding their characters.

Loltraviss is trying to implement her opinion about Halsey by putting un necessary things in Glasslands. That's why this book was so terrible, it spits on Halo brand itself.

Halsey saved the Humanity from extinction. That is pretty big accomplishment to have, no?
You do know she wrote it from an unbias view so that's just how everyone felt from the start...wait...


-Nate'

  • 08.20.2012 2:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chester Duncan
You do know she wrote it from an unbias view so that's just how everyone felt from the start...wait...


Rubbish. Utter rubbish crap spouted by Traviss.

I'll let you know that she actually admitted that she didn't do any research on Halo universe, only used "hard facts" to assert her writing of Glasslands. That is one of many reasons why Glasslands received low rating and is regarded as worst Halo novel to be dated in Halo franchise.

Unbiased view? Ha, don't make me laugh. Rebuilting characters from Fall of Reach, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx and using that rebuilt character as form to attack Dr. Halsey in somewhat way of implementing her opinion (I dare to say, highly moralistic sense) and even made Dr. Halsey from cold and calculating woman to drama queen with personal problems.

That, is truly pathetic. Perhaps 343i studios should have paid little more attention at her horrendous writing and gave her such harsh criticism and corrections to make sure that Halo canon isn't raped over again.

I apologize for a small rant, I just find Traviss's writing of Halo novel was huge mistake made by 343i Studios. They should have kept Eric Nylund for marvelous novels e.g Fall of Reach, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.

  • 08.20.2012 8:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Primo84
Posted by: grey101
you clearly cant support your point
I support my points with facts from the novels, backed up with page numbers, and then I use those to speculate.

I get angry with you because you tend to ignore those and endlessly repeat whatever drivel you're pounding your head against the wall over.You think i am "dumb"I think we've covered that.yet i can speak without insulting somebodyI'm not sure what politeness has to do with intelligence, but okay."You don't know how to argue" simply because i refuse to call you remarks?You don't know how to argue because you're incapable of refuting any points without some uncited, generalized misinterpretation of the source material.2. You just said not everybody pays attention to the details in light of a huge revelation yet you are saying my reading comprehension should be question because i pay attention? "Your reading comprehension is poor, because I was talking about the characters, not you.you shouldn't be arguing against somebody's opinion in such a matter and with the reasoning you are.I like to think I started off in this thread as the jerk, but you're doing my work for me and justifying every insult I've thrown your way.

Good show, grey. Good show.
Not to mention you are singling me out more than anybody yet my stance isn't different from most others in this thread so clearly you aren't here for my "opinion".Others are presenting their opinions in a coherent fashion; you're not. I hate to stoop to this level, but even your deteriorating sentence structure is beginning to make your replies a chore to read.

Why is it that I'm capable of a civil exchange with Cmdr Whatshisname, but not you?3. That isn't childishYou're using real-world legal terms to describe the interpretation of a person that doesn't exist, as if the interpreter of said person, the author, has actually committed some sort of legitimate offense.

Chill out, it's a book.
attacks to keep your "argument" up.Nope.

The insults are just salt in the wound. I've already pointed out countless times what's holding up my argument, but you're still refusing to address them.You are just mad about something i did/said months if not years ago and just want to try taking it out on me now.I'm mad that you've somehow devolved from what was already a poor style of posting and debate.4. It isn't my reading comprehension it's your motive to attack.And what's your motive? Ignore every legitimate point I try to make and focus solely on the (deserved) insults I said to you? Is that it?I said several times that the lack of perspectiveAnd I've suggested that you look up what the word "perspective" means. There is no single shared perspective in this book, as everyone has reached their conclusions for their own individual reasons, which I've explained, which you've ignored.

...as predicted.5. How in the world would it be a "lengthy book" to briefly explain the history of the project?It would slow down the pace of the story, and I like to think the assumption was made that those who are reading the book are familiar with the backstory.

Within the actual book, a rehash of previous events benefits none of the parties originally privy to that information. It doesn't serve their best interests nor further their personal agendas. I've explained this already.I think the innes got a brief passage in "The life of cole" and i am sure that ORION didn't get half the novel of "TFoR".Because a recanting of lore actually fit in with the narrative style of the story.You are over exaggerating again.Subtlety seems to usually be lost on you, so I like to think I'm forced to.6. So you aren't trying to rationalize Ackerson yet you say what he did was indeed heroic?Ackerson's death was heroic. The series of events leading up to his death were heroic.

The role he played in S-III was immoral and criminal, but it yielded desirable results comparable to Halsey.As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't try pointing out others fallacies unless you are 100 percent sure you haven't done any yourself.As a general rule of thumb, you should make sure you understand what your opposing party is trying to say before you go and waste your time writing something absolutely meaningless.I never tried saying that i have said several times that two sides of the story should have been included so the reader can pick their stance on the matters.But you just said it above. You've been complaining this entire time about a lack of differing opinions among the characters, and that the book is "biased."We know that Ackerson is worse than Halsey yet everybody now thinks Halsey is worse because nobody knows about Ackerson despite GoO being out for years now.See, this is the kind of generalized statement I expect you to make, and it's a logic fallacy at that.

Why? Why was Ackerson worse than Halsey? Before you go and attack whatever position you think I'm taking, notice that I'm not taking one. Right now, I'm merely asking you to produce some kind of factual content that supports your stance.
7. So you are trying to say no civilians were murdered whatsoever when the covenant were on that chase?Uh, no.

It did, however, reallocate valuable enemy resources from their primary objective to something nonexistent, resulting in the destruction of an enemy warship, which undoubtedly carried numerous enemy combatants.

I like to think eliminating the enemy is a pretty important goal.Um, a single adult being beheaded doesn't add up to the hundreds of children (most under 10) being slaughtered.I never said it did.

I was merely commenting that the torture and beheading of a man who had ruined countless lives was probably as good as it was going to get in terms of karma. (He can only dies once, so at least it was brutal.)



1.I don't ignore your facts but for some reason somebody (me specifically) not sharing your viewpoint seems to annoy you so much. Both of us have decent if not Valid few points but you don't want to leave it at that. You know i won't stop posting no matter how long it takes for me to reply so unless your mission is to keep posting until the end of time you are just wasting it.

2.Which i stated is ridiculous and immature but irrelevant nonetheless and shouldn't be brought up in a discussion but rather a PM.

3. I was sarcastically saying if intelligence is measure by insults then you beat me. You speak of me ignoring your post but you don't even read mine.

4.Um, everything i am saying is coming straight from the lore and you being upset that I don't share the same viewpoint as you isn't an argument. You know very well i can argue when i have something to argue about which isn't this topic.


5. I know exactly what you were talking about and brought it into a real world context. Stop bring up "reading comprehension" since you have a bigger issue understanding me than i do you. Especially since other members have stated you are the one with reading comprehension issues.


6.Lol what? we can easily ask for outside opinions on that since you are being far more rude than i have been not to mention your attacks on me were uncalled for from the start. I will go ahead and ask people to read this thread and then post who they think was being a jerk.


7. "Chill out it's a book" yet you are the one so worked up that i don't share your point of view? That is confusing not to mention you are the one calling me names over "a book".


8.There isn't a wound and i have been addressing your point just because they aren't answers you want to here doesn't mean they aren't answers.

9. This isn't a debate or argument and i post in a matter that doesn't take up a lot of time since for me.

10.It's an internet forum what in the world would a "motive" be? I have acknowledge your points and it isn't like you didn't ignore anton's post or several other's that posted in this thread. So stop acting i ignore you when i post back each and every time.

11. Yet nobody reach the conclusion that halsey might not have been the figure head of the project and or that their might have been a reason the project was started in the first place. Hence why i constantly keep repeating that.
If you know i will never acknowledge your points and will constantly ignore them then why are you wasting your time trying to explain them? That doesn't sound like a smart thing to do.


12. A single line wouldn't slow down the pace of the book whatsoever. Not to mention no book in the haloverse should be a stand alone novel to this degree as this might be somebodies first book and they wouldn't know any details about what is going on because they were never brought up or implied in the book.


13.


I had never seen anything like thisbut the Didact had.

His memories offered commentary and context as the grappler dragged me down
toward that hell.



An extremely brief passage such as that would not slow do the book whatsoever primo.

14. Ok so when I assume you are trying to imply something you state that you weren't and that isn't what you mean. Now you say you try to imply things but it just goes over my head? what?

  • 08.21.2012 10:35 AM PDT