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This topic has moved here: Subject: Late Night Flood - Should it be allowed?
  • Subject: Late Night Flood - Should it be allowed?
Subject: Late Night Flood - Should it be allowed?
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  • Intrepid Member

Don't judge a book by its cover, unless it has bacon on the cover, then it is a good book.

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Posted by: DarkJet7

Posted by: x Foman123 x


What i'm hearing.

The thing about LNF threads is that they only work as threads, if you force it to be a group or irc then it looses all it's charm and becomes a boring waste of time.



this guy just won the internet. There should be a thread specifically for this and only this. and maybe make it a pinned topic. LNF threads are the best and typically are just plain fun

  • 08.21.2012 3:07 AM PDT

Posted by: A Bit Of Zero
This thread would have appealed to me more if it was written with crayons.
Posted by: King Dutchy
I broke one of the cords for my X11s because I couldn't get past the final American course in Doritos Crash Course.

I remember that thread - the ambient music was awesome. Anyway, I don't see a huge problem with them, as long as the discussion is kept fairly civil, it seems to attract a lot of activity so it obviously serves its purpose.

The only problem I see with it, as Foman said, is that it may be hard to moderate - with discussion being encouraged to evolve quicker than most threads it may be hard to keep on top of it, I would have thought the report button would have been useful but as I am not a moderator I have no idea how reliable it is.

It basically comes down to how much you can trust the members in the flood, which is why I'm not too surprised the mods are skeptical.

  • 08.21.2012 8:11 AM PDT
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The best victories are the ones the other side didn't expect.

Yes Costco. I need a 50lb bag...I mean sack of sugar.

Or you could talk to some friends online via chat. Or a messenger. Or irl.

The flood seems like a bad place to host a "broad topic" thread, since most people in the flood can't be civil.

  • 08.21.2012 8:23 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: x Foman123 x
I prefer not having to continue going into a thread every 10 minutes to "check up" on it.
It's almost like effectively moderating a forum requires one to participate. Astonishing.
I didn't think someone of your intellect could come up with such an incredibly idiotic statement.

The reasons he would have to check up on it is because it has no topic, and therefore does not have the ability to stay on topic. Threads that are off-topic and derailed are threads that need to be locked. Of course any thread can get off-topic, but by the very nature of those kinds of threads you would need to check up on it constantly. That thread is a bad thread.

Don't be stupid.

  • 08.21.2012 9:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: MiloOmega
They can be scary to the young mind. *shudders*

ToU says you accept to be 13 when you join

  • 08.21.2012 9:07 AM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: x Foman123 x
I prefer not having to continue going into a thread every 10 minutes to "check up" on it.
It's almost like effectively moderating a forum requires one to participate. Astonishing.
I didn't think someone of your intellect could come up with such an incredibly idiotic statement.

The reasons he would have to check up on it is because it has no topic, and therefore does not have the ability to stay on topic. Threads that are off-topic and derailed are threads that need to be locked. Of course any thread can get off-topic, but by the very nature of those kinds of threads you would need to check up on it constantly. That thread is a bad thread.

Don't be stupid.
crazy you been postin a lot of dumb lately

  • 08.21.2012 9:16 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

Fun fact: time zones exist. So it's never late night everywhere.

  • 08.21.2012 9:23 AM PDT

Posted by: Kneecap
I keep on getting in conversations with a person who calls me John.


Posted by: BR131
Fun fact: time zones exist. So it's never late night everywhere.

Ban everyone who doesn't live in the East coast.

  • 08.21.2012 9:27 AM PDT

Break down, every single one of you.


Posted by: x Foman123 x

Every single reason given in this thread to allow the "late night Flood" threads is just as easily accomplished through individual threads on a particular subject matter.

Very specific thread topics can lead to the death of a thread or a discussion. Most people can only talk about music or math for so long. However, the open endedness of the LNF allows for new discussion to appear. People once talking about music or math in the same thread can come together and talk about the math behind music in ways that neither group would have thought of separately. The LNF allows for more of a holistic conversation.

The mere fact that a thread reaches a large number of replies is most certainly not evidence of "discussion." I could easily create a 150-reply thread by going into the Flood and creating a "post your desktop" thread or a "smash your head into the keyboard and hit the 'post' button" thread. In fact, many of the threads that gain replies the fastest are inappropriate (e.g., politics, religion, sex, spam, malicious trolling) and when a thread gains many replies very quickly, it is often a warning sign to us as moderators that something is going wrong in there.
What about Say the most random fact to win a prize! and Flood Funny Sayings threads? Those topics cannot make for any conversations, yet they are pinned topics. Yes they have pages in the hundreds, but as you said this is not evidence of discussion. The Say the Most Random Thread has been around since I first came here (2008) and the Funny Sayings thread has been around since 2009. Also, the last page of Funny Sayings is just the OP bumping the thread. If they can have pinned threads that generate no discussion, why can't we have a thread every once in a while that generates multiple discussions?

On the other hand, despite your claims of intellectual and enriching discussion (which I have no doubt are true), a "late night Flood" thread is essentially a "post whatever you want in here" thread. There is no question that a thread whose subject line is "Post whatever you want in here" would be locked -- a cleverer title changes nothing about this. Intellectual and interesting discussion happens every day in the Flood in more focused threads -- I participated in several myself just earlier today. A "late night Flood" thread is certainly not the only vehicle for this.
Once more, the Say the most random fact to win a prize! and Flood Funny Sayings threads meet the description of threads you say should be locked. Yet they are pinned and have been around for years. Truly, how much more random can you get that "Post Random Facts"? Look, I am not asking to have the threads mentioned here locked. We just want equality. We are not asking for a LNF to get special treatment or to become a pinned topic. I am sure most of the people who go to those threads would hate the idea. We just want to make a thread once a month or so where people from all over the world came come together and talk about whatever comes up.

Furthermore, there is no way to moderate these threads and discussions can quickly be derailed or spiral out of control. I have personally seen them devolve into flaming, trolling, and spam numerous times. And because the Flood at large generally reports only the very worst kinds of spam attacks and trolling, I prefer not having to continue going into a thread every 10 minutes to "check up" on it.
To be honest, I have a hard time disagreeing with you here. Yes, the Flood is far from the most mature forum on the site. I do also recognize that it is your job to not trust us to behave. That is why moderator positions exist, and it is very hard to trust people on the internet to behave. However, the time that the LNF appears is during a daily lull in activity when most of the trolls have gone to bed. Mostly mature people a enter the LNF to have these calm discussions. There are the occasional trolls, but they tend to be ignored there.

Finally, if we allow one, there is no good reason not to allow ALL "post whatever you want" threads. These threads are disallowed for a number of reasons (including those noted above), and nothing about changing the title of YOUR "post whatever you want" thread makes it any more special than any other.
As noted in sections 2 and 3 of this post, such threads already do exist and are quite popular.

As I noted when I locked the thread, if you want to communicate with the community in a random, stream-of-consciousness format, IRC channels and/or private groups are far better options than the public forums here.
The problem is, IRC channels do not have the same quoting capabilities as bungie.net (at least, not as far as I am aware). Also, we would all need accounts on the exact same site. Why do that when we are already here? Also, we would then need to schedule dates to meet up to chat. That is against the very nature of the LNF. The LNF is just a casual thread that every once in a while someone goes, "You know, no one has made a LNF thread in a while. I wonder how everyone is doing". Then it is made and lasts only the night. The LNF isn't a scheduled thing, nor does it occur regularly. It is spur of the moment. Very casual. Also, having a group for this purpose limits who will join the conversation. Only people who know about the LNF will even search for the group and that leaves any new people out in the cold. We want to hear from our old friends, but we also want to hear from the people who just wandered into this site. It is a breath of fresh air to hear somebody new's view points. Also, the LNF never last for more than a night. When the dawn comes we all disperse, going back to our own lives in this wide world until we feel the need to gather once more.

Look, we are not trying to tell you how to do your job. Far from it. Most of us respect the mods to much to even try. We just want equality with threads that produced less discussion than the LNF and, yet, are allowed to remain. We want to have a talk about whatever comes up with anyone who wishes to join. We just want a small sanctuary in a usually crazy place that is open to everyone. Can't we have this?

  • 08.21.2012 9:44 AM PDT

Key


Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
crazy you been postin a lot of dumb lately
I do that.

  • 08.21.2012 10:03 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Sure, why not?

Individual threads don't last late at night.

  • 08.21.2012 10:06 AM PDT
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BC1096
One does not choose a destiny, his destiny is bestowed, shaped and formed, from the soul.

Same situation with my how was your day threads but the things the moderators say is true. It's more of a one on one thread, not one that someone can join in the conversation

  • 08.21.2012 10:17 AM PDT

Why not stop by my File Share while you're here?

~Long Live Halo 2
Only regret is I didn't play more of it.

If you haven't noticed by now, I'm sort of a jerk.

Clearly, you haven't seen many LNF threads.
Posted by: Khirna
Or you could talk to some friends online via chat. Or a messenger. Or irl.

The flood seems like a bad place to host a "broad topic" thread, since most people in the flood can't be civil.


[Edited on 08.21.2012 10:53 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2012 10:50 AM PDT

Let it go.

FoFo be pissin' in yo cheerios again?

  • 08.21.2012 11:06 AM PDT

Message Me Here
Don't be afraid, I don't bite.

Check My Groups Here
Relax, they aren't all pony related.

...which can't really be said about my Deviant Art Page however.

In short I see you asking the moderators to allow you to make an Off-Topic "Anything" thread in the middle of an Off Topic "Anything" Forum.

Also threads such as yours (well, the one you linked) seem to promote short responses not having anything to do with a certain topic of discussion... not that there is usually any to begin with.
Most of which could be considered spam if I understand what I've seen so far correctly.

---

Dear sweet Lil' Lam, the amount of spelling errors in my post are horrifying.

[Edited on 08.21.2012 11:14 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2012 11:12 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

I see no harm in them even though I am never on to participate. They seem to me like good threads to keep the late night denizens happy and keep them from getting bored and spamming up the entire forums.

  • 08.21.2012 11:24 AM PDT

I am a Floodian

I support Flood Bars, Roadtrips/Space Adventures, and Late Night Threads.

  • 08.21.2012 11:28 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Puma Knight
Very specific thread topics can lead to the death of a thread or a discussion. Most people can only talk about music or math for so long. However, the open endedness of the LNF allows for new discussion to appear. People once talking about music or math in the same thread can come together and talk about the math behind music in ways that neither group would have thought of separately. The LNF allows for more of a holistic conversation.
The "death of a thread" is a natural result of the discussion forum structure. If the community at large is not interested in a thread's topic, they stop posting in the thread and it sinks to the bottom of the page. If people are interested, they continue discussing it and the thread remains at the top of the page. This is the way of discussion forums and is the reason that they are such a popular medium on the internet. Conversely, the "Late Night Flood" and other post-whatever-you-want threads circumvent and defeat this forum structure by having no particular subject matter, allowing the thread to remain at the top of the forum for as long as anybody feels like spamming it.

What about Say the most random fact to win a prize! and Flood Funny Sayings threads? Those topics cannot make for any conversations, yet they are pinned topics. Yes they have pages in the hundreds, but as you said this is not evidence of discussion. The Say the Most Random Thread has been around since I first came here (2008) and the Funny Sayings thread has been around since 2009. Also, the last page of Funny Sayings is just the OP bumping the thread. If they can have pinned threads that generate no discussion, why can't we have a thread every once in a while that generates multiple discussions?They are not pinned threads, they are top forum topics. Pinned threads are pinned by admins/moderators. Top forum topics are the result of the community. Neither of these are "post whatever you want" threads. One is "post random facts" and the other is "post funny sayings by other members." These may be broad topics, but they are nowhere close to being as open-ended as "post whatever you want." Furthermore, their sheer age, size, and the fact that the threads do have a somewhat focused subject matter differentiates them greatly from Late Night Flood or other post-whatever-you-want threads.

To be honest, I have a hard time disagreeing with you here. Yes, the Flood is far from the most mature forum on the site. I do also recognize that it is your job to not trust us to behave. That is why moderator positions exist, and it is very hard to trust people on the internet to behave. However, the time that the LNF appears is during a daily lull in activity when most of the trolls have gone to bed. Mostly mature people a enter the LNF to have these calm discussions. There are the occasional trolls, but they tend to be ignored there.You can't have it both ways, man. You can't claim that individual threads die quickly late at night in the first part of your post, and then claim that there is a lull in activity in the second part.

For what it's worth, I agree with the second statement: that Late Night Flood threads tend to appear during a daily lull in activity. But this is all the more reason to create focused threads on individual subject matters. Good threads created late at night in the Flood stay active for hours, not minutes, and frequently go on during the next day.

The problem is, IRC channels do not have the same quoting capabilities as bungie.net (at least, not as far as I am aware). Also, we would all need accounts on the exact same site. Why do that when we are already here? Also, we would then need to schedule dates to meet up to chat. That is against the very nature of the LNF. The LNF is just a casual thread that every once in a while someone goes, "You know, no one has made a LNF thread in a while. I wonder how everyone is doing". Then it is made and lasts only the night. The LNF isn't a scheduled thing, nor does it occur regularly. It is spur of the moment. Very casual. Also, having a group for this purpose limits who will join the conversation. Only people who know about the LNF will even search for the group and that leaves any new people out in the cold. We want to hear from our old friends, but we also want to hear from the people who just wandered into this site. It is a breath of fresh air to hear somebody new's view points. Also, the LNF never last for more than a night. When the dawn comes we all disperse, going back to our own lives in this wide world until we feel the need to gather once more.

Look, we are not trying to tell you how to do your job. Far from it. Most of us respect the mods to much to even try. We just want equality with threads that produced less discussion than the LNF and, yet, are allowed to remain. We want to have a talk about whatever comes up with anyone who wishes to join. We just want a small sanctuary in a usually crazy place that is open to everyone. Can't we have this?
Once again, all of this can be accomplished via other methods. If you want casual discussion and to hear different viewpoints, that's what individual threads are for. If you want to meet new people, try reading those threads and talking to them. If you want to find out how your old friends are doing, message them -- people message me all the time to ask what's going on and how I'm doing. If you want a sanctuary from the Flood, go to private groups like everybody else does. There is even a very popular private group called "The Flood's Sanctuary."

I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, a thread mostly filled with folks posting "actions" in between asterisks and lists of their favorite movies, bands, or TV shows is not the kind of thing that is necessary. 50 replies of *sits at fireplace and sips coffee* is not quality discussion, and there is no differentiation between this and any other "post whatever you want" thread.

  • 08.21.2012 11:30 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

I had a thread that was five pages long, it got locked, and I got warned for "not encouraging discussion."

So, I guess it just depends on what is discussion to the mods.

[Edited on 08.21.2012 11:36 AM PDT]

  • 08.21.2012 11:35 AM PDT

"It's better to burn out than fade away..."

Join Sapphire for intense and pleasing sex­ual pleasure.


Posted by: TopWargamer
I say that they should be allowed.

  • 08.21.2012 11:37 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Apparently making threads getting people to play game nights together is encouraging discussion.
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
I had a thread that was five pages long, it got locked, and I got warned for "not encouraging discussion."

So, I guess it just depends on what is discussion to the mods.

  • 08.21.2012 11:38 AM PDT

The ignorance of time zones is off the charts, dude.

  • 08.21.2012 11:39 AM PDT
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BC1096
One does not choose a destiny, his destiny is bestowed, shaped and formed, from the soul.

Not to be a jerk, even though I agree with Foman because frankly he wouldn't be a mod if he didn't know how to do it, when it comes to the forums at night it's usually a time where there are less trolls allowing for more mature conversations. If the LNF threads weren't asterisk action posts then I see nothing wrong with if. It's a thread to keep comfortable during the night. Like my "How was your day" threads. My intention may be to help others who are having problems and if someone posts that they did the same thing in their day like with the 3 guys who all had a favorite sport in common (in other words help people with problems and help people become friends) but it goes against the standard way the post structure goes on here. As much as I would like to post the threads I respect the fact it's In a way against the rules.

There's no need to argue about it frankly.

This is my opinion, feel free to disagree. Have a good day :)

  • 08.21.2012 11:40 AM PDT
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You're just mad that you can't make instant hot topics anymore.

  • 08.21.2012 11:41 AM PDT
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I was the first Spartan. And I will be the last. Mythic on 9/1/2012 never forget
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Posted by: DarkJet7

Posted by: x Foman123 x


What i'm hearing.

The thing about LNF threads is that they only work as threads, if you force it to be a group or irc then it looses all it's charm and becomes a boring waste of time.



You should come to expect that from Foman... I personally think he drew the short straw and has the play the bad cop.

  • 08.21.2012 11:45 AM PDT