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Subject: What is the problem with reach?

The story might not be as good as Halo 3, but why does everyone think bad of it. Personally I love the multiplayer and there are no obvious flaws in the campaign (the ending could have been better). I just want to know why people think its bad.

  • 08.22.2012 1:28 PM PDT

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This should go in the Halo: Reach forum.

And if you think there are no obvious flaws in the campaign then you are clearly mistaken both gameplay-wise and canon-wise.

  • 08.22.2012 1:31 PM PDT

It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"

  • 08.22.2012 1:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: BaselessVirus
It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"


No, it coexists with it.

  • 08.22.2012 1:46 PM PDT


Posted by: lime013

Posted by: BaselessVirus
It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"


No, it coexists with it.


How do you figure? There are so many discrepancies between them. As a stand alone story, sure, I actually thought Reach's campaign was well written and beautifully done, but it stepped on the toes of a story that I loved on numerous occasions.

EDIT: didn't really answer OP. lol.

Honestly, I think a lot of people had an issue with it for the aforementioned reasons. It rewrote the first Halo novel. In my opinion I actually like Reach by itself, but it's nearly impossible to play it while separating yourself from the universe. Especially if you're a big fan of the expanded universe (novels, comics) such as myself.

I wouldn't have had a problem if Reach just completely went against the fall of reach. Of course, I'd be upset, but not in the same way. The thing that bugs me is that they reference events in the novel so many times just to completely obliterate others. I also think that a similar campaign could have been crafted that would have better catered to the already existing story of the novel.

Many people who go against my theory like to say that games hold more weight as far as canon goes than novels. And with this, I would probably agree, but it doesn't mean I'm not upset that they changed an already great story.

[Edited on 08.22.2012 2:31 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2012 2:20 PM PDT

I understand it changed the events and stuff from the book and Bungie worked with the man to write it but it's their game and their story well at the time it was so I feel whatever they want to change or add is their call.

  • 08.22.2012 3:05 PM PDT


Posted by: lime013

Posted by: BaselessVirus
It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"


No, it coexists with it.


Coexists is a better term then 'rewrites'.

Halo Reach does not rewrite the entire Fall of Reach book. Those who think it does are frankly crazy.

Frankly, at this point, both Reach and Fall of Reach are canon, they both tie in, and 343 + bungie has said so. Trying to claim Reach as non-canon is a waste of time.

  • 08.22.2012 3:17 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Campaign:
People hate the retcons and the flat characters. This is not taking into account that Reach falling in 2 hours makes no sense, and that 9/10 of characters in other Halo games are just as flat as Noble team unless you start referring to the books.

Multiplayer + Gameplay:
They hate Bungie's attempted innovation. Whether or not you like AAs is not the point, but the fact is that Halo is trying to mix things up and they don't like it. A lot of people rag on CoD for being the same, yet when Halo tries to change it gets shunned. Expect lopsided trapezoids and golden triangles to show up.

  • 08.22.2012 3:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
Campaign:
People hate the retcons and the flat characters. This is not taking into account that Reach falling in 2 hours makes no sense, and that 9/10 of characters in other Halo games are just as flat as Noble team unless you start referring to the books.

Multiplayer + Gameplay:
They hate Bungie's attempted innovation. Whether or not you like AAs is not the point, but the fact is that Halo is trying to mix things up and they don't like it. A lot of people rag on CoD for being the same, yet when Halo tries to change it gets shunned. Expect lopsided trapezoids and golden triangles to show up.


Ah, I remember fun times debating with people about how really, Chief got just as much development as Noble Team in game terms. Or how we learned nothing about say, Keyes in CE despite people claiming CE had the best character development or something.(one of the things I remember was I think not learning about Noble Team in the game enough.)

[Edited on 08.22.2012 3:42 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2012 3:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: Xd00999
Campaign:
Reach falling in 2 hours
What? I need proof. To me it seems as though there were long pauses inbetween such as the night missions and what not. It's definitely atleast 24 hrs. I don't know how that relates to the book, however.

  • 08.22.2012 3:42 PM PDT


Posted by: Habah

Posted by: Xd00999
Campaign:
Reach falling in 2 hours
What? I need proof. To me it seems as though there were long pauses inbetween such as the night missions and what not. It's definitely atleast 24 hrs. I don't know how that relates to the book, however.


No, in the book, Reach fell (groundside) in 2 hours.

Despite clearly stating earlier they had really powerful aircraft on Reach, mere HUNDREDS of dropships swarmed and overwhelmed places like, the MAC generators, the main armory, UNSC command (on Reach) all at once, within hours.

Like the UNSC had no prepared ground defenses (actually said in the book, as the generators didn't even have the concrete of the bunkers DRY by the time Spartans got there), no air support (only air support shown killed more UNSC then Covenant), and no mobilized forces. (shown by Command falling).

Oh, and the Covenant knew the exact locations of all those places, despite never seeing the planet beforehand.


Now, in the game, it shows the Covenant WERE on the planet for a while (roughly a month, though actual heavy fighting didn't occur until at least post Tip of Spear date), and on the 30th, a massive reinforcement fleet arrived (queue, book space battle). This not only explains the groundside forces being overwhelmed (they had already been in heavy fighting for a while), but also the fact the Covenant knew where to hit.

[Edited on 08.22.2012 3:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2012 3:46 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)

Campaign: All the characters were 1D, Reach was the biggest battle of the war and yet each level only had 10 enemies on screen at once and there wasn't a single vehicle section or even an endgame Warthog chase.

As well, the game did not fit at all with the books. I don't care. There is no way that in 1 month's time not a SINGLE UNSC ship would fly to the other side of Reach and see a Covenant fleet in orbit. And EVERY SINGLE SENSOR in system would notice the entirity of Reach's nuclear armament spent on the Viery territory.

The story is a joke, things that were perfect got retconned, and nothing new was noted. We don't know what Cortana got off the Forerunner artafact, we don't know why the PoA was on Reach. We don't know anything about Noble Team or why they are bonded together. They are the leader, the irritating tech gal, the big gun guy, the scary black man, and the sniper. I don't know a thing about them and I don't care. I laughed when Kat got shot, yet I was worried sick when Romeo get stabbed by the Brute in ODST. See the difference? I laughed when my "likable commander squadmate" died in reach, yet the person who is supposed to be disliked in ODST, I liked more.

Reach was bad story telling, period.

As for multiplayer: The game failed because they slowed down gameplay, plain and simple. They added and removed and changed toooo much in trying to cater to both MLG and casual audiences. Everyone either used Sprint or Armor Lock. Sprint was great, it made the gameplay go faster, but just having faster moving speed would have eliminated it's need. And it also created a whole new group of noobs who started pointless melee battles and sword rushes.

Armor Lock on the other hand ruined all semblance of skill based play. Got yourself in a bind? Use this consiquence free invulerability that makes enemies lose shields until your teamates can come and finish them off. The thing about Halo was there was no hard counter to anything in the game. Even with Rockets and overshield a spartan could still be killed by a good teamshot. A shotgun camper could be killed by grenades and a coordinated strike, and a sniper could be killed by someone sneaking up with a shotgun.

AL had no such weakness, a swordsman could have a sniper dead to rights when suddenly he ALs and then his teamates kill the guy with a shotgun. It was this sort of bad game design that was applied to many other parts of multiplayer. The DMR was suddenly 5 shots, making kills take a few extra seconds. Luck based bloom was added, instead of managable recoil that skilled players could control, a long distance DMR fight became a coin toss between someone spraying and someone taking their time.

Finally, the game is just buggy, so very very buggy and almost clinical, like no joy went into it. I've been blasted into the stratosphere when I melee someone in armor lock. I've respawned as a Spartan with Evade in Invasion, I've encountered the Spire Invasion Core glitch several times in a row. Friendly AI will happily drive your Warthog off a cliff for no reason. Brutes will melee plasma cores and commit ritual suicide. Hunters get stuck in doorways.

Watch this to get my point

And on my next point. They released a Vidoc talking about how great their new engine was, and how they could show hundreds of unique light sources and how they could make huge fantastic environments.

Then, the first mission was a rainy day, with a dark sky, going through dark rooms with grey dusty Spartans. the next mission was to save a grey building by running through brown mud. Then the next mission was night time crawling through grey cliffs and grey buildings. Leading up to an epic charge through brown dirt. Everything is grey, the only light source is the sun, there is no more than 10 enemies on the screen at once, and even Marty's soundtrack couldn't elevate the game. It was essentially the same 3 tracks just at different speeds.

Dont believe me? Compare Sierra 117 to Winter Contingency. I think Halo 3 looks much better.

Sierra 117
ODST's Mombassa Streets
WC

I just feel like Bungie pushed through the game in order to move on to Activision and their new IP. It was the Halo they had to make to get away from MS, instead of the game they wanted to make.

  • 08.22.2012 3:58 PM PDT

wasn't a single vehicle section

Um. what game did you play again?

It was essentially the same 3 tracks just at different speeds.

Again, what game did you play?

Seriously, I'm just going to view your post as some sort of troll effort because... wow.

I mean, okay if you consider the fact the groundside battle of Reach(book version) showed even LESS defenses then in Halo Reach, and that was apparently perfect...

  • 08.22.2012 4:31 PM PDT

The problem with Reach is that it was glassed.

Personally i like to think both versions work together the book and the game/

  • 08.23.2012 2:59 AM PDT
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Campaign AI:

-sabotaged (I'm not saying they are stupid. I'm saying they were intentionally nerfed) friendly AI: slow turning speed, delay in getting in vehicles, minimum RoF output, charging into battle, wacky AI on Exodus (firing at civilians, don't attack Covies near end of the mission)

-unpleasant enemy AI:
*enemies have broken plasma pistols: insanely quick overcharging time, spamming overcharged bolts, possessing relatively tiny cooldown time, being able to fire standard shots almost immediately
*enemies have major flaws (jump on Hunter, hologram Elites, needle rifle everything else)
*can't assassinate dual wielding Elites or Brutes if they've noticed you

Campaign:

-insufficient enemy numbers
-overrated encounters
-lame objectives
-vehicle sections sucked
-once boarded, can't do anything about boarder (was also in H3). In a Wraith, you only have a second to try to get the boarder off, but thanks to vehicle health, you run the risk of damaging your Wraith. When confronting sword Elites in a vehicle, you're screwed if you're boarded due to 1 hit kill melee
-vehicles are often irreplaceable so it's annoying having to abandon a functional vehicle
-lack of AI collections
-lack of freeroaming AI
-excessive scripting (also in H3)
-Noble Team and Pelicans ruin any hope of fun on lower difficulties
-game still punishes, only it's much worse (game kills you off, CoD style, for killing civilians even if it was an accident, making Noble Team able to kill you with 1 shot even though they are invincible (also in H3 but at least they could be disarmed))
-Thunderstorm skull makes every Grunt an Ultra and as you well know, they require 2-3 headshots. There was a time when I just wanted to fight Elite Ultras (in H2)...
-still can't turn on/off skulls without restarting the mission
-no carrying over weapons to next mission. Game frequently gives you a loadout
-redundant sandbox:

*useless weapons (AR, plasma repeater, magnum)
*situational weapons (concussion rifle, plasma launcher, plasma rifle, needler, plasma pistol overcharge, focus rifle, spartan laser)
*useful weapons (DMR, needle rifle, plasma pistol, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, target locator)

Player:

-extremely vulnerable player
-severe fall damage
-retarded jump height
-slow movement & near useless strafe (insane projectile speed increase on Legendary nullifies it)
-necessity for Sprint

Gameplay:

-insane explosion blast radius
-cqc sucks
-lolphysics
-vehicle health
-plasma grenade super lethal
-awkward grenade throw
-awkward sniping
-awkward aiming
-pop in/poor draw distance
-Bloom

Reach is mostly AI fail but it's mechanics were trash too.

[Edited on 08.23.2012 4:24 AM PDT]

  • 08.23.2012 4:13 AM PDT

If good looks could kill, I'd be a weapon of mass destruction.

Q: Hey, what did Hitler say to the black jew?
A: Get to the back of the oven.


Posted by: Gottalovec4
Campaign: All the characters were 1D, Reach was the biggest battle of the war and yet each level only had 10 enemies on screen at once and there wasn't a single vehicle section or even an endgame Warthog chase.

As well, the game did not fit at all with the books. I don't care. There is no way that in 1 month's time not a SINGLE UNSC ship would fly to the other side of Reach and see a Covenant fleet in orbit. And EVERY SINGLE SENSOR in system would notice the entirity of Reach's nuclear armament spent on the Viery territory.

The story is a joke, things that were perfect got retconned, and nothing new was noted. We don't know what Cortana got off the Forerunner artafact, we don't know why the PoA was on Reach. We don't know anything about Noble Team or why they are bonded together. They are the leader, the irritating tech gal, the big gun guy, the scary black man, and the sniper. I don't know a thing about them and I don't care. I laughed when Kat got shot, yet I was worried sick when Romeo get stabbed by the Brute in ODST. See the difference? I laughed when my "likable commander squadmate" died in reach, yet the person who is supposed to be disliked in ODST, I liked more.

Reach was bad story telling, period.

As for multiplayer: The game failed because they slowed down gameplay, plain and simple. They added and removed and changed toooo much in trying to cater to both MLG and casual audiences. Everyone either used Sprint or Armor Lock. Sprint was great, it made the gameplay go faster, but just having faster moving speed would have eliminated it's need. And it also created a whole new group of noobs who started pointless melee battles and sword rushes.

Armor Lock on the other hand ruined all semblance of skill based play. Got yourself in a bind? Use this consiquence free invulerability that makes enemies lose shields until your teamates can come and finish them off. The thing about Halo was there was no hard counter to anything in the game. Even with Rockets and overshield a spartan could still be killed by a good teamshot. A shotgun camper could be killed by grenades and a coordinated strike, and a sniper could be killed by someone sneaking up with a shotgun.

AL had no such weakness, a swordsman could have a sniper dead to rights when suddenly he ALs and then his teamates kill the guy with a shotgun. It was this sort of bad game design that was applied to many other parts of multiplayer. The DMR was suddenly 5 shots, making kills take a few extra seconds. Luck based bloom was added, instead of managable recoil that skilled players could control, a long distance DMR fight became a coin toss between someone spraying and someone taking their time.

Finally, the game is just buggy, so very very buggy and almost clinical, like no joy went into it. I've been blasted into the stratosphere when I melee someone in armor lock. I've respawned as a Spartan with Evade in Invasion, I've encountered the Spire Invasion Core glitch several times in a row. Friendly AI will happily drive your Warthog off a cliff for no reason. Brutes will melee plasma cores and commit ritual suicide. Hunters get stuck in doorways.

Watch this to get my point

And on my next point. They released a Vidoc talking about how great their new engine was, and how they could show hundreds of unique light sources and how they could make huge fantastic environments.

Then, the first mission was a rainy day, with a dark sky, going through dark rooms with grey dusty Spartans. the next mission was to save a grey building by running through brown mud. Then the next mission was night time crawling through grey cliffs and grey buildings. Leading up to an epic charge through brown dirt. Everything is grey, the only light source is the sun, there is no more than 10 enemies on the screen at once, and even Marty's soundtrack couldn't elevate the game. It was essentially the same 3 tracks just at different speeds.

Dont believe me? Compare Sierra 117 to Winter Contingency. I think Halo 3 looks much better.

Sierra 117
ODST's Mombassa Streets
WC

I just feel like Bungie pushed through the game in order to move on to Activision and their new IP. It was the Halo they had to make to get away from MS, instead of the game they wanted to make.


All of my: "this."

  • 08.23.2012 8:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: Gottalovec4
Friendly AI will happily drive your Warthog off a cliff for no reason.
I blame the hog's physics.

Though it's also likely the AI driving sucks as well.

Posted by: Gottalovec4
Brutes will melee plasma cores and commit ritual suicide.
Brutes are a joke in Reach so they aren't really a good example of Reach AI, as savory it is to use the Brute fails as part of an argument.

Posted by: Gottalovec4
Hunters get stuck in doorways.
Yep, poor pathfinding. It is one of the prominent issues with Reach AI. I've found several Elites stuck against a lamppost on Nightfall. I've seen Elites who repeatedly try to jump over the scenery object right in front of them when they could just go around.

  • 08.23.2012 8:35 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The space battle for reach is what lasted for two hours which is expected since the covenant always appear en masse and have no issue bringing in more ships. those that wanted an unrealistic drawn out spacebattle between the two are uninformed.

The Ground Engagements for Reach lasted for weeks though we generally estimate that they lasted for a full month.Which is a decent amount of time considering the events.

I honestly laugh when people expect Reach to last longer than other UNSC colonies for some odd reason. The MAC Guns aren't a sound defense seeing as once one falls the grid is breached. You also need a good fleet to protect the Macs to prevent that from happening, which reach did not have.

  • 08.23.2012 11:57 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

In the original version the Covies outnumbered the UNSC roughly 2:1. High odds, but there is no way the entire battle could be over in that short amount of time. Yes, ground engagements continued for over a month, but those were resistance skirmishes. Before you could even finish most movies, the Covies destroyed over a hundred UNSC warships, destroyed and/or disabled every single MAC, eliminated most of HighCom, wiped out every major military base, and were beginning glassing. The battle was effectively lost. Reach was the military stronghold. Excluding Earth, no other colony had greater defenses or military presence. Reach arguably had more soldiers. Reach falling in 2 hours is ridiculous.

  • 08.23.2012 2:01 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999
In the original version the Covies outnumbered the UNSC roughly 2:1. High odds, but there is no way the entire battle could be over in that short amount of time. Yes, ground engagements continued for over a month, but those were resistance skirmishes. Before you could even finish most movies, the Covies destroyed over a hundred UNSC warships, destroyed and/or disabled every single MAC, eliminated most of HighCom, wiped out every major military base, and were beginning glassing. The battle was effectively lost. Reach was the military stronghold. Excluding Earth, no other colony had greater defenses or military presence. Reach arguably had more soldiers. Reach falling in 2 hours is ridiculous.


How is falling to a superior alien conglomerate in that allot time ridiculous? We don't have timeframes for any of the other battles but as far as i am concerned a 2 hour space battles is a long time. You already admitted that the covenant outnumbered the UNSC so i don't understand what is making it so unbelievable that they were defeated in two hours. They only had a few SMAC guns, a rushed in fleet that was mostly comprised of Frigates and that was it. Not to mention we know the covenant were spying on the system prior to the attack hence how they knew where to go.


I don't have an issue with that attack you also have to consider than in current canon reach was allotted to fall per orders on maggies whim.

  • 08.23.2012 2:10 PM PDT

Through the howling dark we will survive this cold war. But for now "See You Starside."

ikr reach is actually AMAZING! I don't see why hate it, and further more people hate Bungie for reach and leaving?!?!?!? well i would like to see the people hating on Bungie work on the same game for TEN YEARS STRAIGHT!!! get my point?

  • 08.23.2012 2:20 PM PDT

If you don't got it, you want it. If you got it, you want more of it. Of course if you don't know what it is, it's hard to get any in the first place.


Posted by: BaselessVirus
It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"


Like that's a bad thing? I mean lets be honest TFoR was a pretty hoakey book. The really solid bits were the Spartan Training segments.

  • 08.23.2012 2:30 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
story
Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
good as Halo 3

Where do you get off using Halo 3 as a reference point for good story?

Anyway, I didn't think it was bad or anything, I probably just expected too much. I think most people's complaints are that it didn't follow Fall of Reach, which is legit. Mine are more based in how I didn't like any of these "characters," we were supposed to be getting to know and love.

  • 08.23.2012 3:39 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Xd00999
In the original version the Covies outnumbered the UNSC roughly 2:1. High odds, but there is no way the entire battle could be over in that short amount of time. Yes, ground engagements continued for over a month, but those were resistance skirmishes. Before you could even finish most movies, the Covies destroyed over a hundred UNSC warships, destroyed and/or disabled every single MAC, eliminated most of HighCom, wiped out every major military base, and were beginning glassing. The battle was effectively lost. Reach was the military stronghold. Excluding Earth, no other colony had greater defenses or military presence. Reach arguably had more soldiers. Reach falling in 2 hours is ridiculous.


How is falling to a superior alien conglomerate in that allot time ridiculous? We don't have timeframes for any of the other battles but as far as i am concerned a 2 hour space battles is a long time. You already admitted that the covenant outnumbered the UNSC so i don't understand what is making it so unbelievable that they were defeated in two hours. They only had a few SMAC guns, a rushed in fleet that was mostly comprised of Frigates and that was it. Not to mention we know the covenant were spying on the system prior to the attack hence how they knew where to go.


I don't have an issue with that attack you also have to consider than in current canon reach was allotted to fall per orders on maggies whim.

Falling to a superior alien conglomerate is not ridiculous. However, considering the Covenant's tactics are essentially 'Run at the enemy shooting in waves', a level of tactical sophistication that even Orks can surpass, the fact that the UNSC defenses are completely obliterated is baffling. As seen in H2, SMACs can fire really fast, about one round every fifteen or so seconds. Considering that AIs can control them, that the only time we see a SMAC miss is against the Supercarrier, and that a SMAC can take out several ships with one shot, it really is upsetting that the entire UNSC force is obliterated in such a short time frame.

However, the really head scratcher was when this UNSC fortress world has all planet side defences overrun. Looking at the CAA factbook, Reach has 11050 air assets. That is not counting the Longswords and other fighters located on the frigates and other ships. Yet, all these fighters are incapable of stopping several thousand drop ships (not tens of thousands) from swarming every single planet side defence, leveling Olympis tower, killing most of HighCom, destroying the generators, and ravage every military base. Keep in mind, using only TFoR, the Covenant only just encountered Reach. They had no way of knowing where every single one of these assets was. Especially strange because they hit Reach at the poles and the dropships had to travel over most of the planet to get to those targets whose locations they didn't know, all in two hours. That the most heavily fortified world in the UNSC was seemingly lacking any dirt-side defences is upsetting. Of course, if Reach was just a farming community, as many critics of the game calls at it was portrayed, it would be much easier for the drop ships to scour the planet, don't you think?

  • 08.23.2012 5:27 PM PDT

I think the campaign in Reach is probably the best one besides Halo 2's, it's one of the ones that's my top favorites at least >_> In answer to the question at hand, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the game at all, whether from a campaign standpoint or from a gameplay one (it's definitely not perfect, but nothing ever is), it's overall no better or worse than any of the other Halo games, so people really have no reason to complain or -blam!- about everything as much as they do. Frankly I find most of the complaints people give quite silly and pointless...especially on the multiplayer.

Honestly, I think if anything has the blatant problems, it's the book's depiction of the Battle of Reach >_> It doesn't even make any kind of sense at all by itself. The Covenant magically know where all of the important locations are on the ground on Reach despite not knowing beans about the planet and its defenses the moment they arrive. Dispatch dropships to the poles of the planet which only hundreds of survive and then near instantaneously overrun said important locations as if they were just homesteads. Places like the Generator Complex, airfields, UNSC High Command, armory, and whatever else were described as coming under attack would have been military bases IE with large garrisons of troops either on site or nearby along with armor divisions, anti-troop, air, and armor groups or turrets would have been around these places as well;hundreds of dropships splitting all of their numbers even more to try and take these places out would not have worked. And not to mention, where were the UNSC airforces, or even the anti-air batteries at these places? They would not have been overrun at all by the paltry number of enemy forces described. Which means that the SMACs would have been online the entire battle, which means the fleet would not be in dire straights either.

And I can't go without mentioning Nylund's magically disappearing UNSC ships >_> I mean seriously, he's pretty much describing the battle shot-for-shot from each side and describing their casualties, and then 70+ UNSC ships just magically disappear with no kind of explanation whatsoever. And just about half the Covenant fleet got wiped out before even firing a shot because they blundered into a minefield and a mass firing of MACs from the UNSC fleet and the SMACs. So by the time the two fleets actually got to clashing they were roughly even in size, and as I mentioned the UNSC still had all of the SMACs and ODPs. The battle would not have lasted less than two hours at all, especially not with all of the brightest minds amongst UNSC commanders there too. Like Captain Keyes for instance. Frankly the whole battle going off of TFoR alone was completely laughable...I hated it long before I even played Halo: Reach, it was not very realistic at all for the heart of the UNSC military and their fortress world >_>

Now I'm not saying that Reach (the game) by itself is necessarily all that great either, but by itself it's worlds better than TFoR ever was. In any case though, both the game and book are so much better together than either one is separate. With the game, the battle in TFoR actually makes sense (though those 70+ ships just disappearing never will :P haha), it makes sense that the Covenant would know where all the strategic locations are, or that they could overrun them easily, because they'd already been on the planet and those places would have already come under attack. The only thing from TFoR that Reach retconned, are people's reactions to the Fleet of Paricular Justice showing up out of nowhere, and what the time was when the Autumn left Reach for Alpha Halo, and that's it.

  • 08.23.2012 6:09 PM PDT

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