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Subject: What is the problem with reach?

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Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious

  • 08.23.2012 10:44 PM PDT


Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious


Funny, because not once has Noble Team killed me.

  • 08.24.2012 12:33 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

It was Reach man, REACH!!!!

Sad face and sad times in campaign. You could have found it fine if you don't follow the novels, and for some even if you did. But I loved FoR, It's what made me get into Halo canon in the first place. Maybe it was high expectations or some out of this world assumptions that Reach would be based on Fall of Reach beyond just the namesake. I don't know, I just know that I was disappointed with the campaign's story on a massive scale. Due in part to the circumstance and characters that were newly introduced, or how previously/newly established characters/circumstance were portrayed.

It didn't help that this was Bungie's last Halo game. Gutttted.

  • 08.24.2012 12:38 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious


Funny, because not once has Noble Team killed me.

I was killed more by Noble Team than any other enemy in Campaign. [Excluding Elite Specialist]

Check my campaign statistics under the enemy tab.
I actually find it quite funny.

Edit=Checking your stats, guy I quoted. You were killed more times by Noble Team than by any enemy in the game. 254x's LOL.

[Edited on 08.24.2012 12:46 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2012 12:39 AM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious


Funny, because not once has Noble Team killed me.

I was killed more by Noble Team than any other enemy in Campaign. [Excluding Elite Specialist]

Check my campaign statistics under the enemy tab.
I actually find it quite funny.

Edit=Checking your stats, guy I quoted. You were killed more times by Noble Team than by any enemy in the game. 254 LOL.


Ah, but I believe that stat counts players. Aka, team kills.

I have been killed by other PEOPLE in co-op player many times, but a kill directly from fire of Noble Team? No.

Edit: Yeah, "Noble Team" in the 'enemies' page counts players. Check firefight tab on it and you'll see that exact same listing. Noble team is in no Firefight matches correct?

[Edited on 08.24.2012 12:49 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2012 12:47 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious


Funny, because not once has Noble Team killed me.

I was killed more by Noble Team than any other enemy in Campaign. [Excluding Elite Specialist]

Check my campaign statistics under the enemy tab.
I actually find it quite funny.

Edit=Checking your stats, guy I quoted. You were killed more times by Noble Team than by any enemy in the game. 254 LOL.


Ah, but I believe that stat counts players. Aka, team kills.

I have been killed by other PEOPLE in co-op player many times, but a kill directly from fire of Noble Team? No.

While you might be right, I don't think it excludes being killed from NPC.

There was a lot of times I've been killed by NPC Jun's sniper in LNoS. Tons. One example.

The amount of games I play solo to co-op. Really is an indicator. I play a lot of Mythic/Legendary games. I know what kills me and what doesn't. If my Team-mates even attempt to kill me in Co-op, I boot them. That does not justify 200x plus deaths from Noble Team [Teammates in co-op] for me, I don't play nearly enough campaign co-op for it to reach that level.
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Edit: Yeah, "Noble Team" in the 'enemies' page counts players. Check firefight tab on it and you'll see that exact same listing. Noble team is in no Firefight matches correct?

Yes but the figures are different though and are more reflective of actual teammates being posted as Noble Team in firefight. The campaign counter-part shows something else, more deaths and not a single kill?, at least in my mine and your case.

It's more representative that it isn't an NPC in firefight as I have 13 kills to Noble Team. That's where you're right, but that doesn't take away from the main point.

In campaign, me and you have 0 kills in co-op as we can't kill NPC teammates. [Well not in the orthodox sense anyways....] Yet they can kill us....

I've killed playing teammates before in campaign [my friends] tons of times yet it doesn't show on the campaign co-op stats, which is more indicative that the campaign portion only reflects the NPC kills and death for Noble Team and would make more logical sense that these stats track how many times you killed a NPC Noble Team member and how many times they killed you. Without the inclusion of playable teammates [In the campaign portion of stat tracking that is]


[Edited on 08.24.2012 1:17 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2012 12:55 AM PDT

The problem with Reach....the only major problems I can think of are when grunts decide to suicide right next to me for an instakill, and that when a Covvie is in a shade, they can fire 42089579348 times faster than you can. -__-

Other than that, really, to give my opinion on other random gripes:

I think all of the weapons are balanced with each other. The thing that escapes people about covenant weapons is that they're not /supposed/ to work like human guns. If anyone here can show me a game that has as much diversity in guns in terms of projectile speed (bullet vs. plasma. vs. needles) damage per second and sheer concept, and is not *horribly* broken I will concede. Take that versus COD or GoW guns: Human/Good guy gun 100rpm 1.0dmg/s Bad guy/commie gun: 200rpm .5 dmg/s WOW WAY BALANCED AND CREATIVE. Reach has an amazingly diverse arsenal, and if you don't have the insight to appreciate it, you probably aren't appreciative of many other obvious things. I personally like to use the human weapons because they're very utilitarian. Short, medium, or long range. The Covenant guns are all weird and in-between, but I still appreciate that they're there, and well thought out.

The armor abilities are totally balanced in Multiplayer, too. I can't believe that people don't understand you have to strategize with them as much as with the guns. I personally often use Sprint to start, then switch to hologram. It's way more likely to throw people off, in my experience. Hologram you have to plan to use, too. Armor lock does take skill to use, because of the shield-pop effect it has, and you have to plan what you're going to do after the .5 second disengage time (probably dodge some grenades or melees). That stand-up period is intentional, and it totally makes it fair game (remember you can choose it too) Jet pack is a jet pack, it can't be unfair. You increase your visibility for better and for worse. Active camo works if you're using it in conjunction with another player, because they'll appear as just another one of randomly moving dots. There's just a bunch of /subtlety/ that goes into this stuff.

Maybe the problem with Reach is that it's mechanics are more subtle than people would like to comprehend. Putting different AAs and loadouts is supposed to change the way you /think/ about the game. Sort of like how in ODST you couldn't just "charge into battle" as opposed to other Halos, but wayyyy more complicated than that. Example: Armor lock might let you get away with being more aggressive, Sprint gives you a hand with melee charges/escapes, blahblahblah other obvious things. I think they totally succeeded.

And really, canon and all of that? Who cares? The plot was scattered because they wanted to make every level completely different from the other, yet still be somewhat feasible. I think the tradeoff was totally worth it, you'd just have to /think/ about how intentional *every*thing that went into that game is. Even the difference between New Alexandria and Long Night of Solace is huge, and they're both flying missions in the middle of an FPS. Reach is a totally elegant experience, I think your taste just has to be a little refined. The only other "complicated" thing I've seen in multiplayer are those stupid "perks" in CoD, which just make the game unfair to new players. /rant

  • 08.24.2012 1:16 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: linkdude64
And really, canon and all of that? Who cares?

I cared, *sniff sniff.

Not anymore though.

  • 08.24.2012 1:21 AM PDT

X) sorry! Yeah, I loved the books too. But as far as complaining about it goes...there's just not really a point. First Strike was my fav....probably read it cover to cover 20 times. But yeeeeaaaaaaaah. Go Bungie!

  • 08.24.2012 1:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious

Not everyone.

And Halo 3 was basically the same thing. No real story till the Ark, even then, it only got interesting around the end of the Covenant.

Unlike Halo CE and 2, which grabbed my attention via its pure awesomeness, universe, and interesting story and a respectable character like Keyes and/or Johnson, Halo 3 was basically, HURR DURR HEAD TO THE PORTAL TO WAR SHE SAID HURR DURR for a long, long time.

  • 08.24.2012 2:16 AM PDT

I totally agree with you. I think Halo 3 was the least innovative of the series. Halo CE and 2 were totally like you said, in-your-face awesome. Maybe because it was a smaller studio back then? I guess we'll see what happens when Destiny is released; If it's going to be as fresh as Halo CE and 2

  • 08.24.2012 3:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious


Funny, because not once has Noble Team killed me.
I have to admit, I've only been killed one time by Noble Team.

It wasn't Kat, it wasn't Jun.

It was Carter. In a Wraith. On LNoS. I was outside of the map and far away from any enemy. Needless to say, he actually targeted me. Of course, there's a possibility that he was targeting a departing dropship on the other side of the map, an enemy on the other side, or a Seraph, but still, why get sidetracked when there's a whole bunch of Covies nearby closing in fast?!

And no, I didn't betray anyone.

[Edited on 08.24.2012 4:18 AM PDT]

  • 08.24.2012 4:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Quantam

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious

Not everyone.

And Halo 3 was basically the same thing. No real story till the Ark, even then, it only got interesting around the end of the Covenant.

Unlike Halo CE and 2, which grabbed my attention via its pure awesomeness, universe, and interesting story and a respectable character like Keyes and/or Johnson, Halo 3 was basically, HURR DURR HEAD TO THE PORTAL TO WAR SHE SAID HURR DURR for a long, long time.
H3 was finishing up where H2 left off. If H2 had been finished, there would surely have been defending Earth missions in H2 while H3 would have introduced new Forerunner locations, making it similar to CE.

Nonetheless, H3 doesn't pick up until The Storm.

  • 08.24.2012 4:21 AM PDT

It's missing *something* that the other Halo games had.

Still a great game on it's own right, and I'm glad they added some spice to the formula since it was starting to get stale.

  • 08.24.2012 9:05 AM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

This
Posted by: Gottalovec4
Campaign: All the characters were 1D, Reach was the biggest battle of the war and yet each level only had 10 enemies on screen at once and there wasn't a single vehicle section or even an endgame Warthog chase.

As well, the game did not fit at all with the books. I don't care. There is no way that in 1 month's time not a SINGLE UNSC ship would fly to the other side of Reach and see a Covenant fleet in orbit. And EVERY SINGLE SENSOR in system would notice the entirity of Reach's nuclear armament spent on the Viery territory.

The story is a joke, things that were perfect got retconned, and nothing new was noted. We don't know what Cortana got off the Forerunner artafact, we don't know why the PoA was on Reach. We don't know anything about Noble Team or why they are bonded together. They are the leader, the irritating tech gal, the big gun guy, the scary black man, and the sniper. I don't know a thing about them and I don't care. I laughed when Kat got shot, yet I was worried sick when Romeo get stabbed by the Brute in ODST. See the difference? I laughed when my "likable commander squadmate" died in reach, yet the person who is supposed to be disliked in ODST, I liked more.

Reach was bad story telling, period.

As for multiplayer: The game failed because they slowed down gameplay, plain and simple. They added and removed and changed toooo much in trying to cater to both MLG and casual audiences. Everyone either used Sprint or Armor Lock. Sprint was great, it made the gameplay go faster, but just having faster moving speed would have eliminated it's need. And it also created a whole new group of noobs who started pointless melee battles and sword rushes.

Armor Lock on the other hand ruined all semblance of skill based play. Got yourself in a bind? Use this consiquence free invulerability that makes enemies lose shields until your teamates can come and finish them off. The thing about Halo was there was no hard counter to anything in the game. Even with Rockets and overshield a spartan could still be killed by a good teamshot. A shotgun camper could be killed by grenades and a coordinated strike, and a sniper could be killed by someone sneaking up with a shotgun.

AL had no such weakness, a swordsman could have a sniper dead to rights when suddenly he ALs and then his teamates kill the guy with a shotgun. It was this sort of bad game design that was applied to many other parts of multiplayer. The DMR was suddenly 5 shots, making kills take a few extra seconds. Luck based bloom was added, instead of managable recoil that skilled players could control, a long distance DMR fight became a coin toss between someone spraying and someone taking their time.

Finally, the game is just buggy, so very very buggy and almost clinical, like no joy went into it. I've been blasted into the stratosphere when I melee someone in armor lock. I've respawned as a Spartan with Evade in Invasion, I've encountered the Spire Invasion Core glitch several times in a row. Friendly AI will happily drive your Warthog off a cliff for no reason. Brutes will melee plasma cores and commit ritual suicide. Hunters get stuck in doorways.

Watch this to get my point

And on my next point. They released a Vidoc talking about how great their new engine was, and how they could show hundreds of unique light sources and how they could make huge fantastic environments.

Then, the first mission was a rainy day, with a dark sky, going through dark rooms with grey dusty Spartans. the next mission was to save a grey building by running through brown mud. Then the next mission was night time crawling through grey cliffs and grey buildings. Leading up to an epic charge through brown dirt. Everything is grey, the only light source is the sun, there is no more than 10 enemies on the screen at once, and even Marty's soundtrack couldn't elevate the game. It was essentially the same 3 tracks just at different speeds.

Dont believe me? Compare Sierra 117 to Winter Contingency. I think Halo 3 looks much better.

Sierra 117
ODST's Mombassa Streets
WC

I just feel like Bungie pushed through the game in order to move on to Activision and their new IP. It was the Halo they had to make to get away from MS, instead of the game they wanted to make.

  • 08.24.2012 11:56 AM PDT

I run Skirmish!!!

^^^^This

Reach was the WORST halo game in terms of character development. Absolutely terrible. Never once did we connect to any of these characters like in previous halo games, especially ODST. We just started out in a falcon then later on we hear an uninterested guy telling us the covenant are on reach. Then we -blam!- around doing lame mission checkpoints and killing maybe at the most, 10 covenant at once. even though this covenant force was huge the battles were on a smaller scale than any other halo game. The sniper level was a sad representation of truth and reconciliation from halo 1, it wasn't even that great compared to the better halo ce level. I didn't even care when Kat died because i knew nothing about her other than she had a prosthetic arm and looked like a -blam!-. George was apparently going to be a big character in the game yet once again, we learned little about him and emile didn't really say anything through the entire campaign.

just overall, really unsatisfying and disappointing.

O except for marty kicking ass with the soundtrack as always

[Edited on 08.24.2012 2:50 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2012 2:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: Quantam

Posted by: da 70 70 hatred

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
there are no obvious flaws in the campaign
So much wrong

The campaign is completely random. It has no real storyline until The Package. Noble team has to do eveything. The AI are more of a threat to you than The Covenant. Everyone dies and the deaths are predictable and halirious

Not everyone.

And Halo 3 was basically the same thing. No real story till the Ark, even then, it only got interesting around the end of the Covenant.

Unlike Halo CE and 2, which grabbed my attention via its pure awesomeness, universe, and interesting story and a respectable character like Keyes and/or Johnson, Halo 3 was basically, HURR DURR HEAD TO THE PORTAL TO WAR SHE SAID HURR DURR for a long, long time.
Halo 3 is a dumbed down Halo 2

  • 08.24.2012 6:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: II gaped II
...and killing maybe at the most, 10 covenant at once. even though this covenant force was huge the battles were on a smaller scale than any other halo game.
This was my main disappointment.

Posted by: II gaped II
The sniper level was a sad representation of truth and reconciliation from halo 1, it wasn't even that great compared to the better halo ce level.
This alone is evidence that proves Reach campaign is retarded. An entire sniping mission, with no stealth and encounters that can easily be skipped. Not to mention many overrated encounters, like the ones in the dark zone. Those battles are only hard because of the bs Shade turrets and because you can rarely get the high ground.

Posted by: II gaped II
O except for marty kicking ass with the soundtrack as always
Agreed.

  • 08.24.2012 6:30 PM PDT

I DO have time to bleed...i just dont want to.


Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
The story might not be as good as Halo 3, but why does everyone think bad of it. Personally I love the multiplayer and there are no obvious flaws in the campaign (the ending could have been better). I just want to know why people think its bad.

people just hate change to be honest, and because halo:reach was so diffirent from the previous halos many people disliked it, but i actualy like it, its a good game at the end of the day.

  • 09.12.2012 10:24 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: GOLDENSKULL95

Posted by: Smurfkiller9000
The story might not be as good as Halo 3, but why does everyone think bad of it. Personally I love the multiplayer and there are no obvious flaws in the campaign (the ending could have been better). I just want to know why people think its bad.

people just hate change to be honest, and because halo:reach was so diffirent from the previous halos many people disliked it, but i actualy like it, its a good game at the end of the day.


I love ODST, it's by far the biggest thematic and atmospheric change in the series in terms of design, music, story and storytelling, but hate Reach's campaign because it is the ultimate bastardisation of what made the other Halo campaigns fun and replayable.

  • 09.12.2012 10:35 AM PDT

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  • 09.12.2012 10:54 AM PDT
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I think Reach gets alot of undeserved negative attention. I'm not saying it was perfect but it wasn't anything like as bad as soo many on this site make out.

  • 09.12.2012 11:22 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: Xd00999
In the original version the Covies outnumbered the UNSC roughly 2:1. High odds, but there is no way the entire battle could be over in that short amount of time. Yes, ground engagements continued for over a month, but those were resistance skirmishes. Before you could even finish most movies, the Covies destroyed over a hundred UNSC warships, destroyed and/or disabled every single MAC, eliminated most of HighCom, wiped out every major military base, and were beginning glassing. The battle was effectively lost. Reach was the military stronghold. Excluding Earth, no other colony had greater defenses or military presence. Reach arguably had more soldiers. Reach falling in 2 hours is ridiculous.

In order for the UNSC to have a fair fight against the Covenant, they would need 3 ships to every one Covenant ship. The UNSC at Reach had roughly 250-ish ships (number may be wrong) vs. the Covenant's 700-ish ships. And they STILL lasted for several hours despite being at a massive disadvantage.

Reach is a candy coated version of what actually happened, with numerous continuity errors.

If you think its retarded for Reach to fall in 2 hours, how much more retarded would the UNSC have to be to let a random ship waltz into its space without contest (IE start of Halo: Reach).

  • 09.13.2012 1:07 AM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

Posted by: Xd00999
In the original version the Covies outnumbered the UNSC roughly 2:1. High odds, but there is no way the entire battle could be over in that short amount of time. Yes, ground engagements continued for over a month, but those were resistance skirmishes. Before you could even finish most movies, the Covies destroyed over a hundred UNSC warships, destroyed and/or disabled every single MAC, eliminated most of HighCom, wiped out every major military base, and were beginning glassing. The battle was effectively lost. Reach was the military stronghold. Excluding Earth, no other colony had greater defenses or military presence. Reach arguably had more soldiers. Reach falling in 2 hours is ridiculous.

In order for the UNSC to have a fair fight against the Covenant, they would need 3 ships to every one Covenant ship. The UNSC at Reach had roughly 250-ish ships (number may be wrong) vs. the Covenant's 700-ish ships. And they STILL lasted for several hours despite being at a massive disadvantage.

Reach is a candy coated version of what actually happened, with numerous continuity errors.

If you think its retarded for Reach to fall in 2 hours, how much more retarded would the UNSC have to be to let a random ship waltz into its space without contest (IE start of Halo: Reach).


The amount of times we've been shown that the whole 3:1 thing is pretty bull-blam!- are rather numerous...that is hardly a valid representation. And besides the point, it doesn't matter how large the Fleet of Particular Justice was upon arrival as a full half of the fleet was wiped out by the SMACs, UNSC fleet, and a minefield before they even got to fire a shot off. Leaving the number of ships almost exactly even 15o vs 150...and considering the SMACs can take out a single Covenant ship with one shot (multiple if they're in line with each other) each SMAC counts for roughly three UNSC ships, as it takes about 3 normal MAC rounds to down a Covenant ship. So of course it's retarded that Reach fell in under an hour taking the book on its own...especially with the Covenant instantly knowing where all of the UNSC's most important bases and locations were even though they had just arrived and despite the dropships descending on the planet from the two poles miles from their intended targets...they almost instantly overrun what should be permanent military bases, not some random little backwoods outpost, with only hundred of dropships that are all splitting up to hit multiple different locations, and the fact that none of Reach's 11,050 strong airforce did anything to stop them or whatever anti-air units it would have in it's 58,430 land based units (and these are all the permanent forces kept on Reach, the actual number is probably more considering how all of the ships in the fleet regularly stop off there and Reach would then have all of their assets at their disposal as well). I mean really think about it, the UNSC has been at war with the Covenant for roughly 25 years now, the army wouldn't be just standing around, but they'd all be ready to jump to full combat readiness almost the instant after warning of the Covenant finding Reach being known. On it's own the account given in TFoR is uttlerly ridiculous on multiple levels.

Neither the game or the book are perfect on their own, they're meant to stand together compliment each other...all of those problems I mentioned above now actually make sense because of the game. Defenses were more quickly overrun because the planet was already under attack and that is how the Covenant knew where everything was when the Fleet of Particular Justice arrived.

And ONI had lured the Long Night of Solace to Reach in order to use the ship for Operation RED FLAG...it wasn't just sitting there, it was one ship that they could easily control, and RED FLAG would have actually succeeded if they had shared their knowledge of it being there (which they could have easily done without revealing they had been the ones who actually lured it there). The Pillar of Autumn was the back-up plan, or at least became that after the LNoS was destroyed, it was probably going to be the flagship leading the assault on the LNoS had Noble Team not blown it up.

  • 09.13.2012 12:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: wcd45
I think Reach gets alot of undeserved negative attention. I'm not saying it was perfect but it wasn't anything like as bad as soo many on this site make out.
No Halo game was perfect; people are just aggressive since it is the current Halo game that is out.

  • 09.13.2012 12:32 PM PDT

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