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Subject: What is the problem with reach?

Many gave their lives so that we could live on. I intend to honor them by remembering them. Remember Cyborg. Remember John. Remember Noble.

You know, I had some problems with it too.

At first I was so excited about it I knew all the spoilers before it even got out.
When I played it a few times I was disappointed with it and some things about it.
But bit by bit I learned to enjoy it again, in a different fashion, I suppose.
Now I's like Halo 3 to me, I always return to it with fond memories and I always find something new about it. It's one of the reasons I love Bungie games.

  • 09.14.2012 2:12 AM PDT

He's right on top of us! I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using...

Ockeghem
Missa Prolationum

The problem, my dear boy, is classes in multiplayer

  • 09.16.2012 11:46 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

Personally I love Reach. I love all of the Halo games.

Everyone can have an opinion, which I'm fine with. Not everyone has to love the same thing. I thoroughly enjoyed and still do enjoy it.

  • 09.16.2012 12:21 PM PDT

52,000 kills in Halo 2 and more legendary playthroughs in CE than you can imagine. I am truly a God.
.................................,-;;-=-,_____
,-------------------------.___/-----i````````'\--`\ .
|-------------xvxvxvxvxvxv--o-~~~~~~o--,\======
|_______|_o_./``/--/`;````~----------------~`
....................../_/`` BR-55

I think Reach had the overall best campaign.

  • 09.16.2012 9:05 PM PDT

What's wrong with Reach? Let's see, weak Campaign, terribly written, one dimensional characters, and the worst part is that you never get to bond with them. You could literally replace them with Marines and you wouldn't feel any difference because you never get to see their "Spartan-III awesomeness".

Also, this game contradicts most of the events from the novels. Yes, I know 343 Industries found a way for both stories to co-exist, but I still think these "solutions" make no sense. The novel was far more enjoyable, and if someone thinks that the game is better because "the fight lasts longer", then you've missed the point of what made the Halo story so great, just like Karen Traviss.

  • 09.16.2012 11:17 PM PDT

I'm bringin' Spartan back.

Honestly it's an eyesore. The blurriness of the game and the grainy effect is distracting. I still love playing it though.

  • 09.17.2012 12:31 AM PDT

<(-_-)> Teh mokey is not amused


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Campaign AI:

-sabotaged (I'm not saying they are stupid. I'm saying they were intentionally nerfed) friendly AI: slow turning speed, delay in getting in vehicles, minimum RoF output, charging into battle, wacky AI on Exodus (firing at civilians, don't attack Covies near end of the mission)

Granted, but then again when has the friendly AI in halo ever not been worse than the enemy AI?

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-unpleasant enemy AI:
*enemies have broken plasma pistols: insanely quick overcharging time, spamming overcharged bolts, possessing relatively tiny cooldown time, being able to fire standard shots almost immediately
*enemies have major flaws (jump on Hunter, hologram Elites, needle rifle everything else)
*can't assassinate dual wielding Elites or Brutes if they've noticed you

This has a very limited impact on gameplay, you're just nitpicking.

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Campaign:
-insufficient enemy numbers
How so? The numbers were relatively equal to or more than that of halo 3, which no-one complains about.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-overrated encounters

Example?
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lame objectives

No more lame than other games. The only objective of sierra 117 was get to evac, with "coincidences" constantly preventing the player from doing so. Also the storm had the player simply destroy 3 AA objectives, something much complained about on TOSP. The objectives can be as boring as you want if you try.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-vehicle sections sucked

I'll admit, they kinda sucked comapred to levels like The Ark and Assault on the control room.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-once boarded, can't do anything about boarder (was also in H3). In a Wraith, you only have a second to try to get the boarder off, but thanks to vehicle health, you run the risk of damaging your Wraith. When confronting sword Elites in a vehicle, you're screwed if you're boarded due to 1 hit kill melee.

Thats simple game mechanics, don't let enemies get close to you.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-vehicles are often irreplaceable so it's annoying having to abandon a functional vehicle
Twas the same in all the other games apart from CE.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lack of AI collections

I don't understand what this means.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lack of freeroaming AI

Not in previous games.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-excessive scripting (also in H3)

If you mean scripted events, it's not an RPG, the story is kinda scripted, like ALL other halo games.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-Noble Team and Pelicans ruin any hope of fun on lower difficulties

What fun?
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-game still punishes, only it's much worse (game kills you off, CoD style, for killing civilians even if it was an accident, making Noble Team able to kill you with 1 shot even though they are invincible (also in H3 but at least they could be disarmed))

Because you aren't supposed to kill civillians and betray your team-mates, you sadistic bastard.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-Thunderstorm skull makes every Grunt an Ultra and as you well know, they require 2-3 headshots. There was a time when I just wanted to fight Elite Ultras (in H2)...

That's kinda what the thunderstrom skull does. It's not like they're any harder to kills, just one extra bullet.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-still can't turn on/off skulls without restarting the mission
This was never in the previous games...
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-no carrying over weapons to next mission. Game frequently gives you a loadout
Carrying over weapons was only in halo 2, thougb it was pretty cool. Also you kinda have to have a loadout or you'd be weaponless, can't kill covenant then.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-redundant sandbox:
*useless weapons (AR, plasma repeater, magnum)
*situational weapons (concussion rifle, plasma launcher, plasma rifle, needler, plasma pistol overcharge, focus rifle, spartan laser)
*useful weapons (DMR, needle rifle, plasma pistol, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, target locator)

Every weapon has a purpose and different people prefer different weapons. The AR is a brilliant secondary on legendary if you use it's burst fire to take down shields.

Player:
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-extremely vulnerable player

No more so than other games.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-severe fall damage

What's the issue here? I expect to die if I fall 100ft.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-retarded jump height

You're a spartan III, not MC. Deal with it.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-slow movement & near useless strafe (insane projectile speed increase on Legendary nullifies it)
Useless strafe my ass. I've managed out kill plamsa rifle weilding ultras on legendary using purely strafing, no cover or shield recharging.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-necessity for Sprint

No there isn't.

Gameplay:
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-insane explosion blast radius

Granted, though negative impact on overall experience is minimal.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-cqc sucks

It hasn't changed at all from other games, except in that AI are actually better at it now with more moves.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lolphysics

Better than CE bro.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-vehicle health

Granted
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-plasma grenade super lethal

It always has been. If anything it's less lethal due to armour lock.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-awkward grenade throw
-awkward sniping
-awkward aiming

Thats your aim, not the games fault. I notice little difference from Halo 3, if anything it's easier.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-pop in/poor draw distance

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-Bloom

Granted, though I personally like it on most weapons.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Reach is mostly AI fail but it's mechanics were trash too.

So since reach is very similar to previous halo games, basically every halo game is a fail?

Come at me bro!

  • 09.17.2012 2:44 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: TheSpiderChief
This should go in the Halo: Reach forum.

And if you think there are no obvious flaws in the campaign then you are clearly mistaken both gameplay-wise and canon-wise.

  • 09.17.2012 3:35 AM PDT

You look around.You fire your weapon before you realize.
Its just me. I fall and you walk up. You cry why.
When i pop up. You look at me in wonder. I say,"ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL."
You bend to my will and go to a cliff, walk off, and fall.
The last thing you hear is me stating as fact,"All will fail the battle of life, you just went early"

Personally, I don't like the campaign becuase it goes against the book quite a few times. One such time is that Master Chief and the Pillar of Autumn never landed on Reach.

  • 09.17.2012 5:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Alright pal, before I respond, let me ask you just one question.

From most favorite to least favorite, what's your favorite Halo game?

Mine is: CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2 > Reach

_______

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Granted, but then again when has the friendly AI in halo ever not been worse than the enemy AI?
The trilogy allies were useful.

CE: marines with snipers stole kills, in large numbers the marines could be useful since they kept the enemy on their toes (Elites spend more time dodging than firing)
H2: mostly because marines are damage sponges. As for Covie allies, because Elites had shields and could use swords
H3: much better vehicle handling (could stop them if they tried to drive off with your vehicle), stayed in cover

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
This has a very limited impact on gameplay, you're just nitpicking.
Not for me.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
How so? The numbers were relatively equal to or more than that of halo 3, which no-one complains about.
Read my replies below.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
No more lame than other games. The only objective of sierra 117 was get to evac, with "coincidences" constantly preventing the player from doing so. Also the storm had the player simply destroy 3 AA objectives, something much complained about on TOSP. The objectives can be as boring as you want if you try.
By lame, I mean execution. I could care less if the objectives are do this or do that. As long as it's done well. AotCR had repetitive locations but the encounters were so different and refreshing which is why I could tolerate it.

Reach was just skirmishes while Halo 2 and Halo 3 were just room-to-room.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
I'll admit, they kinda sucked comapred to levels like The Ark and Assault on the control room.
Should have been optional. Vehicle segments have always failed IMO because they force you to use a vehicle and you can't do -blam!- without it.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Thats simple game mechanics, don't let enemies get close to you.
When you only have 1 vehicle to work with on a level (LNoS mission start only has a single Wraith) and you want to do something else with it besides killing infinitely spawning enemies, you end up placing yourself in scenarios where you have to get up close.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-vehicles are often irreplaceable so it's annoying having to abandon a functional vehicle
Twas the same in all the other games apart from CE.
In Halo 2 and Halo 3, you didn't have to leave the vehicle when it looked like it was going to blow up. As unrealistic as it was, it was very convenient for a lot of setups.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lack of AI collections

I don't understand what this means.
AI go on a mass exodus to some location, you come in, they all swarm you, even the Elites.

Also, when you bring friendly AI to difficult places, such as under a map.

And a bunch of other things like having clones of Arbiter and Johnson.

7erminalVeloci7y's Meta Stability 2.0 has shown that AI collections in Reach are possible but they are much more smaller in scale compared to the trilogy. And granted, Reach does have cloning (2 Emiles, 2 Juns, 2 Jorges, 2 Carters on various levels).

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lack of freeroaming AI

Not in previous games.
Even in Halo 2 and Halo 3, enemies are hard to persuade. The best you could do in Halo 2 is get a train of Ultras. The best you could do in Halo 3 is lure the hammer Chieftain to the end of Crow's Nest in addition to getting a train of kamikaze Grunts on The Covenant.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-excessive scripting (also in H3)

If you mean scripted events, it's not an RPG, the story is kinda scripted, like ALL other halo games.
Halo 3 Sierra 117: Phantoms at the end of the level blow up on their own over time, Pelican loaded with missiles is impossible to stop and has hax (can fire at enemies behind it)
Halo 3 Crow's Nest: impossible to save the Warthog
Halo 3 Floodgate: marines can get infected before the Flood falls on them or you saved them
Halo 3 The Storm: enemies at the AA gun get killed off once cutscene starts
Halo 3 The Ark: cannot touch light bridge or you die, marine driver of Gauss Hog dies even if you manage to save him
Halo 3 The Covenant: if you skip all the enemies at Journey's End, they get killed off

Granted, Reach at least lets you save the Troop Transport Hog on ONI.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-Noble Team and Pelicans ruin any hope of fun on lower difficulties

What fun?
TotS AA gun battles: Pelican comes in, ravages Grunts
LNoS mission start: cleared by Noble Team
LNoS beach battles: Pelican comes in, kills everything
The Package: they get held up by Jackal snipers earlier in the level but when confronted by a Covenant army, they just graze through it like it was nothing
PoA: Emile takes 2 Zealots out, only 4 Zealots left to fight

I've played Reach longer than you think I would.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-overrated encounters

Example?
4 Zealots at the end of PoA, 4 Ultras at the end of LNoS

I did not find them intimidating.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Because you aren't supposed to kill civillians and betray your team-mates, you sadistic bastard.
It was encouraged as an easter egg in CE: killing Keyes and doing a bunch of random stuff unlocks access to Megg.

Plus, when you pissed off your allies in either CE or Halo 2, the crosshair turned red and their performance was more better than when they were allies. Bungie wasn't opposed to betraying allied NPC from the start. It began with Halo 3.

Besides, what would you do if you had an army of marines but nothing for them to fight? You'd be tempted to turn on them.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
That's kinda what the thunderstrom skull does. It's not like they're any harder to kills, just one extra bullet.
Slow kill times. A lot of grenade spamming Grunts, headshots, and Grunt Birthday Party is one hell of a birthday bash (also in Halo 2), whereas Reach lacks such an experience (Thunderstorm makes Grunts more likely to throw grenades and it makes them more durable so they don't blow themselves up which is why I want to turn it on).

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-still can't turn on/off skulls without restarting the mission
This was never in the previous games...
Halo 2: turn on skulls any time without restarting level. Turn off skulls by resetting Xbox
Halo 3: have to restart
ODST: have to restart

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-no carrying over weapons to next mission. Game frequently gives you a loadout
Carrying over weapons was only in halo 2, thougb it was pretty cool.

Also you kinda have to have a loadout or you'd be weaponless, can't kill covenant then.
Also in Halo 3 (Tsavo Highway-The Storm, The Storm-Floodgate, The Covenant-Cortana, Cortana-Halo). Agreed.

That doesn't mean it should be giving me crap weapons. The Package mission start is comparable to Delta Halo and The Covenant. The difference: no unique weapon that you can give to your marines so they can kick ass. Delta Halo: Rocket launcher, The Covenant: Spartan Laser, The Package: standard loadout

How the hell am I supposed to enjoy an 'epic' mission without epic starting weapons?

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-redundant sandbox:
*useless weapons (AR, plasma repeater, magnum)
*situational weapons (concussion rifle, plasma launcher, plasma rifle, needler, plasma pistol overcharge, focus rifle, spartan laser)
*useful weapons (DMR, needle rifle, plasma pistol, rocket launcher, sniper rifle, target locator)

Every weapon has a purpose and different people prefer different weapons. The AR is a brilliant secondary on legendary if you use it's burst fire to take down shields.
Granted the AR in Reach can actually be useful but only if I use it from mid-long range. Up close, you just get tempted to hold the trigger down in addition to dealing with a strong autoaim.

[Edited on 09.17.2012 7:47 AM PDT]

  • 09.17.2012 6:30 AM PDT
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-continued

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Player:
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-extremely vulnerable player

No more so than other games.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-severe fall damage

What's the issue here? I expect to die if I fall 100ft.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-retarded jump height

You're a spartan III, not MC. Deal with it.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-slow movement & near useless strafe (insane projectile speed increase on Legendary nullifies it)
Useless strafe my ass. I've managed out kill plamsa rifle weilding ultras on legendary using purely strafing, no cover or shield recharging.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-necessity for Sprint

No there isn't.
Shield and health ratio is practically unchanged from Halo 3, but enemy damage is so much more greater.

Granted, Halo 2's ratio was the worst: health 30/shield 70

On LNoS, I used to jump off cliffs after creating stealth opportunities and if the Elite I'm targeting suddenly moves, I'm screwed. Why jump off cliffs? Because I love the adrenaline, which I found lacking in Reach. So I improvised.

The even smaller jump height was the most unforgivable change IMO. I wouldn't have minded CE's jump height since I could crouch jump up supply cases (it's a great way to assess jump height). It's hard to do in Reach IIRC.

Video? Also, from what range? Up close, medium, or long? If it's long, yeah of course it's easy. I'm talking about close-medium. On Heroic, Reach's strafe works in all ranges if you add crouch to it (try to mimic/reflect the Elite's evasive pattern and you can avoid shots without taking any shield damage). But on Legendary, as I said before, the projectile speed is nearly unavoidable (a la CE, Halo 2, Halo 3).

Sure there is. The levels are huge, without Sprint or a vehicle, it takes forever (exaggeration).

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Gameplay:
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-insane explosion blast radius

Granted, though negative impact on overall experience is minimal.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-cqc sucks

It hasn't changed at all from other games, except in that AI are actually better at it now with more moves.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-lolphysics

Better than CE bro.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-vehicle health

Granted
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-plasma grenade super lethal

It always has been. If anything it's less lethal due to armour lock.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-awkward grenade throw
-awkward sniping
-awkward aiming

Thats your aim, not the games fault. I notice little difference from Halo 3, if anything it's easier.
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-pop in/poor draw distance

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-Bloom

Granted, though I personally like it on most weapons.
Not for me.

Yes it has changed. You can't hit anything unless your crosshair is on it. The melee is even more slower. As for the AI, they have barely changed from Halo 3. Only the Chieftains and Hunters got noticeable changes (Chieftains have another melee animation, Hunters have earth shaking effect and can launch each other). Elites just got faster melee, that doesn't count.

So you like crashing into walls with the Hog and always having to back up? So you like having a slow Hog?

Right..

Not in CE. It was EMP; Grunts, Jackals, and marines could survive it despite having low health. You could use it to grenade jump without losing a bar of your health. See I didn't hate having health in Reach. I hate what the plasma grenade has become (Halo 3 made it what it is today).

FYI, I have excellent aim. Granted, it is slightly better than Halo 3 since there's little to none spread. I was a bit moody when I posted that.

I could live with 0-85% Bloom but 100% Bloom is overkill.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Reach is mostly AI fail but it's mechanics were trash too.

So since reach is very similar to previous halo games, basically every halo game is a fail?

Come at me bro!
Similar to Halo 2 and Halo 3, maybe.

But it botched it's attempt to be close to CE when it didn't fully restore the plasma pistol, the plasma rifle, or the needler (hell it didn't even try to restore the needler, Halo 3 did that). And when it continued Halo 2/3's damage sponge enemies. I don't mind the pistol being relegated to sidearm, but these 3 weapons deserve much more effort and the AI should have been smart like in CE, without handicaps.

  • 09.17.2012 7:43 AM PDT


Posted by: Juan Teran
What's wrong with Reach? Let's see, weak Campaign, terribly written, one dimensional characters, and the worst part is that you never get to bond with them. You could literally replace them with Marines and you wouldn't feel any difference because you never get to see their "Spartan-III awesomeness".

Also, this game contradicts most of the events from the novels. Yes, I know 343 Industries found a way for both stories to co-exist, but I still think these "solutions" make no sense. The novel was far more enjoyable, and if someone thinks that the game is better because "the fight lasts longer", then you've missed the point of what made the Halo story so great, just like Karen Traviss.


The exact same thing is true about the characters in any one Halo game on its own. The characterization isn't any better than any of the others before it. The only reason characters from the trilogy have more characterization and people are more attached to them is because they've been in more games and they've had books about them as well. One wouldn't care about them from playing just one Halo game than Noble Team in Reach. Halo 3 was my first game, and I never really had any attachment to Miranda, Hood, or many of the other characters until I played the other games and saw more of the lore.

You may have enjoyed the novel more, but on its own it is entirely, completely, and totally laughable, Eric Nylund did not do a good job with depicting the actual battle at all. I read it before I ever played Reach and I thought it completely stupid, it did not make Halo great at all, it did nothing more but make me laugh my ass off and made a terribly unrealistic addition to the Halo story. Halo: Reach on its own makes for a far more realistic story accounting the Battle of Reach, but it isn't perfect either, neither one is perfect on their own, but Reach infinitely better by itself in regards to the Battle of Reach than TFoR could ever hope to be, but it still has flaws. Both are meant to exist together, neither one supersedes the other, everything that was ludicrous about TFoR when its on its own makes sense when integrated with Reach.

  • 09.17.2012 9:42 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

You may have enjoyed the novel more, but on its own it is entirely, completely, and totally laughable, Eric Nylund did not do a good job with depicting the actual battle at all. I read it before I ever played Reach and I thought it completely stupid, it did not make Halo great at all, it did nothing more but make me laugh my ass off and made a terribly unrealistic addition to the Halo story.


I really hate to call you out here but you can't make statements like than and then wonder why they get on you. It just seems that since you like the game and understand it easier you think it is "better". Everything you said about the book can be said about the game; such as it being completly stupid for the CSO to sit there for a month or more when that alone seemed to be more than enough to overrun the planet. It didn't make halo "great" with both factions "being at their height" yet we see no UNSC fleet, No SMACs and just a CSO sitting in space like a toad. It was terribly "unrealistic" for maggie to support the falling of a planet,sword blocking (which is canon),and the covenant just BSing in space for over a month for no reason.


It's cool you like reach and all but you starting your halo love with halo 3 seems to be the reason for all of this. You were very late to the party and think the tie you spent was better than the first few hours.

  • 09.17.2012 10:42 AM PDT

My main gripe was with the Campaign, because that's where the majority of my love for the series lies. I'm sorry, but Reach's single player experience was not a culmination of 10 years of learning and perfecting ones craft. I did not feel Bungie pushed Halo to new heights, and ended their legacy with a bang. What 343 is doing with Halo 4 is what I imagined Reach to be, tbh. An evolution in narrative, character portrayal, scope, and so on.

Noble Team was bland for the most part (Jorge and Kat were the best of them, but still left a lot to be desired), their deaths were horribly executed, disappointing aesthetic, the majority of the music was pretty forgettable, and, just, the overall game was like a step back from previous ones. In terms of design, I can't say that it felt like Bungie's swansong to their beloved creation.

  • 09.17.2012 12:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: NAStheMagiking
I'm sorry, but Reach's single player experience was not a culmination of 10 years of learning and perfecting ones craft.
Yep. To be specific, there was much reverting.

Posted by: NAStheMagiking
What 343 is doing with Halo 4 is what I imagined Reach to be, tbh. An evolution in narrative, character portrayal, scope, and so on.
Agreed.

Posted by: NAStheMagiking
Noble Team was bland for the most part (Jorge and Kat were the best of them, but still left a lot to be desired), their deaths were horribly executed
Not to mention that there wasn't a single moment where the entire team was fighting together.

Also, we didn't get to hang out with the team leader. We spent time alone with every team member except the leader. Plus, for most of the mission, we had to do things alone. Oh the irony.

It should have been like this (I'm not going to change the plot too much as much as I'd have loved to participate in the large scale battles on TotS):

WC: Noble Team (all members at the start to the relay, on foot), Jorge (rally point bravo, as it is now, except much more longer)
ONI: Carter, Kat (we need to get to know our leadership!!)
Nightfall: alone (none of the Noble Team members would be pleasant on this level since there's ZERO stealth. Maybe Jorge could come in when we link up with the militia)
TotS: Emile (dies in Hog crash at the start, thank God!), Jorge (at the Spire, as it is now)
LNoS: Carter, Kat, Jorge (close call at the end, sustains injuries keeping him out of the action until near the end)
Exodus: Jun*
NA: Kat (maybe dies, I don't know)
The Package: Carter, Kat, Jun (dies at the last Phantom a la ODST cutscene where Romeo almost gets killed by Chieftain)
PoA: Carter, Kat, Jorge
Lone Wolf: just cutscene where the remaining Noble Team members get killed off in combat a la Deliver Hope (they didn't die in it but they were shown in combat). Or it's an ambiguous ending. Or as it is now except the remaining members are in it and they are NOT invincible and are more smarter

What we have here is the elimination of an abysmal character (who in their right mind appreciates Emile's presence on the last level? Firing his shotgun from long range, driving the Mongoose off the cliff when driving up the ramp, not shooting at incoming Phantoms that pose a greater threat, gloating over the death of 1 single Zealot he killed, depriving us of a challenge: 2 Zealots RIP), leaving room for the members whose faces we can remember, having seen them. Emile doesn't deserve a level.

*This level suits Jun since he's chatty (look at how many civilians there are!) and it's freaking long. Plus the sniper destroys Banshees

[Edited on 09.17.2012 1:46 PM PDT]

  • 09.17.2012 1:21 PM PDT

Bringing up the points about hardly ever getting to fight as a team, and your ideas of how things should have gone, made me remember another reason why I was severely disappointed. After reading The Fall of Reach (my first Halo novel), and gaining a new level of appreciation for the way Spartans worked together, I was quite let down that we didn't see much of that incredible relationship in the games.

This was to be a tragic story, a more human story, and one that would follows a band of Spartans as they fight to stop the inevitable. I was looking forward to an affecting journey, but there was nothing like that. In the novels, they were family, and it was endearing; but in Reach it was so flat. It didn't look like it was given much thought. That was one of my most disappointing aspects.

[Edited on 09.17.2012 3:46 PM PDT]

  • 09.17.2012 3:44 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: BaselessVirus
It completely rewrites all of, "The Fall of Reach"
Who cares? Bungie made Halo. They're creative decisions take precedent over some author who wrote a book about the universe. If they want to take something and run with it, they're more than entitled to.

  • 09.17.2012 3:48 PM PDT

<(-_-)> Teh mokey is not amused


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Reach is mostly AI fail but it's mechanics were trash too.

So since reach is very similar to previous halo games, basically every halo game is a fail?

Come at me bro!
Similar to Halo 2 and Halo 3, maybe.

But it botched it's attempt to be close to CE when it didn't fully restore the plasma pistol, the plasma rifle, or the needler (hell it didn't even try to restore the needler, Halo 3 did that). And when it continued Halo 2/3's damage sponge enemies. I don't mind the pistol being relegated to sidearm, but these 3 weapons deserve much more effort and the AI should have been smart like in CE, without handicaps.

So basically you want a re-make of CE.
They have one bro.
Reach wasn't meant to be CE 2, it was meant to be an accumulation of the best bits of all the previous games. If they'd modeled it solely on CE, you'd have people -blam!-ing that it wasn't like halo 2 or 3 enough.

They made what they thought was the perfect halo game. Granted, no game is perfect and reach does have it's flaws, but not really any more so than previous games. It's not their fault that they couldn't accommodate the wants/desires of millions of fans simultaneously.

Edit: I'll put it this way, a lot of the flaws in reach are down to ones perception of the game, rather than actual bugs/glitches and poor gameplay. I know people who say reach is a bad game simply because it's too hard for them on normal, doesn't make the game itself bad. Reach's gameplay is good, it just executes differently to the way some may prefer it.

Also what does everyone have against emile? He was one of my preferred characters. Much better than Jun, who had hardly any character development, even over the course of nightfall, making him seem really shallow.

[Edited on 09.17.2012 7:50 PM PDT]

  • 09.17.2012 7:41 PM PDT
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Needs more flexibility.

  • 09.17.2012 7:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: SubtleSpartan
So basically you want a re-make of CE.
They have one bro.
And it was just as fail.

I was severely disappointed with CEA, perhaps even more than Reach. Lots of old skool CE players were. Even LASO players were disappointed.

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Reach wasn't meant to be CE 2,

Yes it was. This can be seen in aesthetics (trooper armor color, Needler, Fuel Rod Gun) and gameplay (Hunters have fuel rod cannon, lack of Hunter bond brother relationship, troopers stumbling from shots, restoration of timed checkpoints and long-term checkpoint delaying which was rare in Halo 2/Halo 3).

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
it was meant to be an accumulation of the best bits of all the previous games.

If they'd modeled it solely on CE, you'd have people -blam!-ing that it wasn't like halo 2 or 3 enough.
Creative battles like this would have been the best bit from CE, but it was completely neglected. Halo 2 has one, Halo 3 has one. ODST has one (small-scale).

Reach has zero, unless you mod the AI positions. The closest thing to creative battling in Reach is moving scenery around to create stealth opportunities. I also did this at LNoS mission start, using the Wraith to move all 7 crates onto the main beach (and this was where I was constantly frustrated and began to hate Reach, because it didn't cooperate with me like the other games).

And that's what they did. You don't hear very many complaints coming from CE players. You hear complaints coming mostly from Halo 2/Halo 3 players.

Also,

Read: http://www. thebitbag. com/2010/02/13/halo-reach-preview/#ixzz26oV5tevc

Bungie wants this game to feel a lot like Combat Evolved. They want Reach to be filled with open environments filled with enemies and allow you to figure out how you want to deal with the situation. There will be corridor battles like what
we've seen in past Halos, but that will be balanced with the terrain of Reach. Reach will have a full weather system as well as Bungie saying they will have "40 AI and 20 vehicles" on screen at a time.


Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Reach's gameplay is good, it just executes differently to the way some may prefer it.
Sure it is... :-7

Posted by: SubtleSpartan
Also what does everyone have against emile? He was one of my preferred characters. Much better than Jun, who had hardly any character development, even over the course of nightfall, making him seem really shallow.
Emile never shows his face when he dies, never does anything useful except in rare moments where high ranking Elites get up close to him and never once lends a helping hand when he's in the MAC gun (for the sake of 'balancing', though I think it would have been better to make this part timed (like CE's hog run) and make enemies infinitely spawning so he could have at least taken down 2 Phantoms).

Furthermore, he's a copy of Ghost from CoD, who also does nothing (or so I've heard).

  • 09.18.2012 3:23 AM PDT

Played it again recently with the mindset that all of Noble team are psychological screw ups and are presented as such, hence their apparent idiocies and problems at times.

Enjoyed the game; story's decent, characters are alright and it's a tight little experience. It's a shame TFoR is contradicted a few times, but at least the datadrops somewhat mitigate that.

I like Reach's campaign.

  • 09.19.2012 12:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Wolverfrog
Played it again recently with the mindset that all of Noble team are psychological screw ups and are presented as such, hence their apparent idiocies and problems at times.

Enjoyed the game
Six, leave that lone wolf stuff behind. *Several minutes later* Six, do this. Six, do that.

Yeah I guess Carter does have some memory issues.

  • 09.19.2012 3:53 AM PDT

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