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This topic has moved here: Subject: Destiny Discussion: Keeping things in Perspective
  • Subject: Destiny Discussion: Keeping things in Perspective
Subject: Destiny Discussion: Keeping things in Perspective

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Posted by: Kr1egerdude
The 3rd person perspective is a great way to differentiate Destiny from most of the shooters on the market. Bungie has been emphasizing how they want to create something totally new since they left Halo, I really hope they don't create another FPS. The only problem about the 3rd person perspective is the gameplay that is currently dominating the genre. Cover based gunfights are getting old, if Bungie does decide to go with 3rd person they need to radically change they way they play.
An open-world MMO-shooter with both open-terrain and urban settings would be ideal for a 3rd person shooter. With optional, but never necessary cover available for those who want to play that way with a cover system that is accessible enough to allow people who want to play that way to play that way yet is not obtrusive enough that those who want to ignore the feature keep running into it would be ideal.

It would also be cool if Bungie could be one of the few companies or entity in general that realizes that most habitable planets will most likely have different biomes and are not all Tatooines or Endors where the entirety of the planet/planetesimal is just a desert or just a forest or just an arctic tundra.

People be unimaginative and ign'ant deez dayz.

[Edited on 08.26.2012 3:49 PM PDT]

  • 08.26.2012 3:47 PM PDT
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I'm gonna finish it. Just like Jigga did to the pyramid.

Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?

  • 08.26.2012 4:37 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?

  • 08.26.2012 4:46 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?

What is 2nd Person in gaming? Is it similar to Second-person narrative in literature?

  • 08.26.2012 5:11 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: CoRaMo
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?

What is 2nd Person in gaming? Is it similar to Second-person narrative in literature?
I would assume so. I always think of it as watching yourself through the eyes of a friendly AI teammate instead of a magical floating camera.

  • 08.26.2012 5:13 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member

I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: CoRaMo
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?

What is 2nd Person in gaming? Is it similar to Second-person narrative in literature?
I would assume so. I always think of it as watching yourself through the eyes of a friendly AI teammate instead of a magical floating camera.

I understand it now, thank you CrazzySnipe55. Also, I just found this Giant Bomb article that expands on the explanation.

  • 08.26.2012 5:18 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

I personally prefer it first person, but it would be nice to have options to switch to a third person, who knows, it might be fun.

  • 08.26.2012 5:20 PM PDT

Key

Just thought of something: if you made a game based around robbing banks and you always saw yourself through (different) security camera feeds (that, if they move, do so independent of your movement), would that be second person?

  • 08.26.2012 5:22 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Unanimate Objec

It being first or third person with freedom of movement would be tremendously awesome.

I'm thinking Assassin's Creed level of freedom of movement. Imagine being in the area the size of one of AC's multiplayer maps, but everyone has guns. I think that would be fun.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it looks like you've forgotten about the dragons?

Dragons would ruin map control worse than the jetpack. Everyone gets a hydra or wyvern instead.

Dragons are the enemies...? I'm not sure what game you're talking about but it's not Destiny.

Wait, are dragons I'm talking about bad guys according to you?

  • 08.26.2012 5:41 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Xd00999
Wait, are dragons I'm talking about bad guys according to you?
Of course. This isn't Eragon. Monsters are evil and must be killed, dammit.

Also, Dragons = Monsters.

[Edited on 08.26.2012 5:58 PM PDT]

  • 08.26.2012 5:50 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Xd00999
Wait, are dragons I'm talking about bad guys according to you?
Of course. This isn't Eragon. Monsters are evil and must be killed, dammit.

Fighting a dragon Shadow of the Colussus style with AC style free running would be unique to put it mildly. Need a Bat-Grappling-Gun.

  • 08.26.2012 5:59 PM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

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Bye.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Just thought of something: if you made a game based around robbing banks and you always saw yourself through (different) security camera feeds (that, if they move, do so independent of your movement), would that be second person?
Kinda. Traditionally, 2nd person is watching your character from the perspective of another. Example

  • 08.26.2012 5:59 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

I'm going to hold on to my hope until it's physically impossible. Not a FPS or TPS... A Space sim shooter.

Something like the Long night of Solace mission could be seen as their 'testing of the waters' so to speak and would make the "T" rating they're shooting for in the contract much more easy when shooting ships instead of other people.

  • 08.26.2012 10:21 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes
I'm going to hold on to my hope until it's physically impossible. Not a FPS or TPS... A Space sim shooter.

Something like the Long night of Solace mission could be seen as their 'testing of the waters' so to speak and would make the "T" rating they're shooting for in the contract much more easy when shooting ships instead of other people.
A flight simulator? Oh my god I would hate that.

  • 08.26.2012 10:24 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes
I'm going to hold on to my hope until it's physically impossible. Not a FPS or TPS... A Space sim shooter.

Something like the Long night of Solace mission could be seen as their 'testing of the waters' so to speak and would make the "T" rating they're shooting for in the contract much more easy when shooting ships instead of other people.
A flight simulator? Oh my god I would hate that.
lolz I think we've had that conversation before. I haven't had a game to scratch that action focused space combat itch since Battlefront 2.

  • 08.26.2012 10:26 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes
I'm going to hold on to my hope until it's physically impossible. Not a FPS or TPS... A Space sim shooter.

Something like the Long night of Solace mission could be seen as their 'testing of the waters' so to speak and would make the "T" rating they're shooting for in the contract much more easy when shooting ships instead of other people.
A flight simulator? Oh my god I would hate that.
lolz I think we've had that conversation before. I haven't had a game to scratch that action focused space combat itch since Battlefront 2.
Another "Long Night of Solace"-esque section I would welcome whole-heartedly as long as it wasn't the focus or even a focus of the game. But I'd like to see an open-world MMO-space-shooter much more (considering I don't know another one that exists).

  • 08.26.2012 10:28 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

From what I recall from the Halo 2 behind the scenes disc, Halo: CE was designed to be initially an RTS game, followed by it being portrayed as a third-person shooter, then by it finally becoming the FPS shooter we all knew and loved throughout the trilogy.

From this, I'm guessing that the style of game-play they had, had come post the idea thought of (duh!), or, more specifically a company might not always think "Right, I want to make an FPS, let's get on with an idea to fit into this sort of game-play", but rather, "Hey, I have an idea, now let's see what type of game-style this would fit best in". The later statement obviously gives a broader range of ideas which can be used, and the company doesn't feel pressured by unnecessary restrictions given to them.

Either way: Hold on to your potatoes.

[Edited on 08.27.2012 2:51 AM PDT]

  • 08.27.2012 2:47 AM PDT

Posted by: lime013
You brought of great points throughout the article, but I think Bungie does want to reinvent the first person shooter (as well as many other aspects of video games).

First of all, I don't think Bungie would want to stray too far away from what made them so successful, which was the first person shooter known as Halo (obviously). But they were also successful with other FPS games like Pathways into Darkness or the Marathon series. Also, Bungie didn't move on from Halo because they were tired of the first person shooter genre, they were tired of the Halo Universe;
A very fair point that I cannot deny.

They wanted to make something new because they had an idea and wanted to peruse it. But, Halo wasn't really your traditional first person shooter to begin with.

As any fan of the Halo series would know, when you get onto a vehicle or a turret (save the front seat of the Warthog in Combat Evolved or the Falcon gunner in Reach), the perspective of the game switches to third person. So Halo sort of bridged the gap between the two shooters.
Eh, while Bungie does take advantage of the third person perspective with vehicles, I personally wouldn't quite call it a bridging of the two shooters. I wrote this article with infantry combat in mind, I didn't particularly have much of a problem with the way that they had done vehicles beyond some of the more recent additions to the series (for example, I feel strongly that there was no need for Armor Lock to instantly destroy a splattering vehicle, that's just a waste). I always assumed that if they did vehicles in Destiny, they would do it in the third person perspective. But go on...

Anyways, in your post, you mention how Fallout/The Elder Scrolls let you play in both perspectives, but was mainly an first person shooter, and vice versa for Battlefront. This doesn't mean Bungie has to pick one or the other, this means that they can expand, or reinvent, what they did in Halo and make a shooter that combines these elements in major ways. Now in my opinion, they can approach this in two ways: toggle or set. Instead of elaborating on those two aspects, let's just dive in to the most likely possibility of how this could work.

Imagine this: Halo combined with Uncharted (or Assassin's Creed). Sounds pretty cool, huh? But what is even cooler is that this could work. Instead of limiting the third person aspect to vehicles, why not expand it to the environment? This means that, just like in Halo, when not interacting with anything, you have the basic first person shooter. But now let's incorporate cover into this. A first person cover mechanic sound great on paper, but would not work well in-game. That is why it would need to stay as a third person interaction, just like the Warthog or the Banshee. Then, after you exit this interaction, it goes right back into first person. But that's probably been done before. Now we have to expand on this.

I remember you saying in your original post that you find first person environments to be bland because you cannot interact with them in the way that you can in games like Uncharted and Assassin's Creed. But hat if we introduce this aspect of gameplay via the first to third person transmission that I've been talking about. Now environments can become more elaborate, interesting, interactive, creative, and cool without losing that famous first person gameplay. If this is incorporated into the game, now you can approach a building or a mountain and scale it in third person, then after you're done, smoothly transmission back into the comfortable first person mode.

Well, that's just my two cents on what I think there going to do, but once again, I loved how you broke down and analyzed those genres; It really helped develop my understanding of the two.
Hmmm.

I could imagine that a little bit. When I was writing the thread, I imagined that it might be a bit difficult to implement controls for both a shooter and a platformer using the same 15 buttons, so I thought about putting in a part that went along the lines of "What if you could simply holster your gun by holding X which sort of swapped you from combat mode to exploring mobillity mode?". With your idea, said "combat mode" would occur from the first person perspective (which many people who have posted believe is better for combat), and then said "exploring mobillity mode" would occur from the third person perspective.

I could imagine it working, but I could definitely see a number of problems. First off, constantly swapping from first to third person as you enter or exit cover could be a tad jarring. It might work for vehicles, as ideally you aren't jumping in and out of your vehicle repeatedly, but in a firefight, constantly having the camera bust through your skull to resume the first person perspective might be a little too busy.

Second (though I'm not sure if this pertains to your original idea as it's more of a problem with my interpretation of it), if there is a seperate mode for first person combat and a seperate mode for third person exploring, I'm concerned about situations where someone is low on health, so they holster their gun and parkour away in third person mode. For the other player to follow them (since I've split the controls for combat and mobillity), he'd need to also holster his gun, which buys enough time for the first person to have his shields recharge. I mean, people hated how you could just sprint away in Reach, I don't imagine this working unless you could keep in step with the person while also firing your gun at him.

That's just what I can think of off the top of my head, though I imagine there's other stuff involving environment design. I'll give it more thought, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, it's very interesting to think about.

Posted by: Verachi
As much as I love third person shooters, I really don't want Destiny to become one. I like FPS a lot more. I love games such as Gears of war and Assassins creed but I can't stand their multiplayer, I only like them for the campaign.
I know what you mean. While the third person perspective could be really awesome for exploration and such in the campaign, I would be hesitant to implement it if it meant that things on the multiplayer half of the game would suffer, as it is the multiplayer that tends to keep games alive and going.

Posted by: GPK Ethan
The problem with third person games though, is that it's insanely hard to immerse yourself into the story and make you feel like you are the character you're playing. Or is that just me? (i.e. lets say Reach was in third person; I would never be able to take myself seriously as Noble 6. I would never believe that I was him, which is exactly what Bungie was trying to do.)
I think it's different for all of us. Just from playing Dark Souls, I've felt very immersed, I'm not sure if it's the atmosphere of the game or if it's simply because I've looked over the back of my character for so long that I've begun to commiserate with his plights (OH GOD THE 40 FOOT TALL GOLEM IS GOING TO SMASH MEEEE!).

I definitely feel that giving the player the abillity to customize the look of his character aids the immersion. I never had a problem in Reach looking at my Spartan and thinking to myself "Yeah, that's me." Watching someone else play the campaign as their own Spartan on the other hand was very jarring.

  • 08.27.2012 8:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag: ALI217
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I'm gonna finish it. Just like Jigga did to the pyramid.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


And he had to write a -blam!- trillion pixel wall of text to say that???

  • 08.27.2012 3:50 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: ALI217

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


And he had to write a -blam!- trillion pixel wall of text to say that???
Because he included lengthy arguments for both 1st and 3rd person. He ignored 2nd person because he's a punk -blam!-.

  • 08.27.2012 3:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: ALI217
  • user homepage:

I'm gonna finish it. Just like Jigga did to the pyramid.


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


And he had to write a -blam!- trillion pixel wall of text to say that???
Because he included lengthy arguments for both 1st and 3rd person. He ignored 2nd person because he's a punk -blam!-.


Sounds interesting, is there a TL;DR version for those arguments?

  • 08.27.2012 3:54 PM PDT

He's right on top of us! I wonder if he is using the same wind we are using...

Ockeghem
Missa Prolationum


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


In reality, this thread could have bene a poll with no explanation.

  • 08.27.2012 3:55 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Ockeghem

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


In reality, this thread could have bene a poll with no explanation.
In reality all threads could be polls with no explanation but then they would be bad threads.

  • 08.27.2012 6:04 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: Ockeghem

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR: Will Bungie's next game be 1st Person, 2nd Person, or 3rd Person?


In reality, this thread could have bene a poll with no explanation.
In reality all threads could be polls with no explanation but then they would be bad threads.
This is reality, only your perspective changes.

  • 08.27.2012 6:09 PM PDT

Non facete nobis calcitrare vestrvm perinaevm.

Posted by: Achronos
You imply a level of control over Halo: Reach matchmaking that we no longer have. Or, in your vernacular, it isn't our shiznit anymore.


Active 9/1/11, Heroic 12/25/12

Posted by: ALI217
Oh my God,

do you have a TL;DR version?
TL;DR

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Verachi
As much as I love third person shooters, I really don't want Destiny to become one. I like FPS a lot more. I love games such as Gears of war and Assassins creed but I can't stand their multiplayer, I only like them for the campaign.
I know what you mean. While the third person perspective could be really awesome for exploration and such in the campaign, I would be hesitant to implement it if it meant that things on the multiplayer half of the game would suffer, as it is the multiplayer that tends to keep games alive and going.
You posted a very interesting idea in your OP about how multiplayer could incorporate some kind of "fog of war". That could work but the problem with 3rd person shooters is the flow of the maps. I think Assassin's Creed's multiplayer is better gameplay wise because of its vertical gameplay with lots of platforms to travel on. Gears of War on the other hand has lots of small hallways with 2 escape routes and places that are easy to camp with the shotgun or other close range weapons. If Bungie creates a 3rd person shooter then they would have to reinvent the way multiplayer works for that genre (which is highly plausible).

  • 08.27.2012 6:50 PM PDT