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  • Subject: Halo The Thursday War Preview on Amazon Potential Spoilers
Subject: Halo The Thursday War Preview on Amazon Potential Spoilers

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Got to about page 60 and then I couldn't stomach any more. The misanthropy is layered on so thick that if I didn't know any better I would assume that this had been written by some emo kid tucked away in their room. Suffice to say that I think the Sangheili have been completely destroyed as sympathetic, or at the very least least relatable, characters. Re-writing their cultural views doesn't help either, nor does the poorly thought out and shoehorned issues about Expansionism. (If Traviss actually defines what the hell that means in the context of the post-2552 universe then someone please tell me. I really want to know what she means with this meaningless phrase. As far as I am concerned Humanity is no better or worse than any Covenant race when it came to resource consumption and colonialism.)

Urgh, won't be buying. Whatever twit started this whole "Misanthropy and cynicism = cool and mature" bandwagon should be shot. It has to fit with the damn context of the fiction. That's why I can't stomach this crap.

[Edited on 09.02.2012 7:08 AM PDT]

  • 09.02.2012 6:47 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Got to about page 60 and then I couldn't stomach anymore. The misanthropy is layered on so thick that if I didn't know any better I would assume that this had been written by some emo kid tucked away in their room. Suffice to say that I think the Sangheili have been completely destroyed as sympathetic, or at the very least least relatable, characters. Re-writing their cultural views doesn't help either, nor does the poorly thought out and shoehorned issues about Expansionism. (If Traviss actually defines what the hell that means in the context of the post-2552 universe then someone please tell me. I really want to know what she means with this meaningless phrase. As far as I am concerned Humanity is no better or worse than any Covenant race when it came to resource consumption and colonialism.)

Urgh, won't be buying. Whatever twit started this whole "Misanthropy and cynicism = cool and mature" bandwagon should be shot. It has to fit with the damn context of the fiction. That's why I can't stomach this crap.
BUT IT HAS MORALS!!! No one gives a -blam!- about how much of the verse is destroyed as long as that sick devil Halsey feels bad.

  • 09.02.2012 7:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

That statement just doesn't add up seeing as the covenant seriously ruin planets for their resources and couldn't care less. Said races have also been space faring Eons longer than humanity thus it shouldn't be a surprise to them that humanity has "so many worlds" since expansion is natural.

I don't believe Karen actually did her research before writing because a lot of the stuff ends up being hypocritical if not contradictory. she should have been limited to a novelette instead since her short and quick work was fantastic.

  • 09.02.2012 7:06 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
That statement just doesn't add up seeing as the covenant seriously ruin planets for their resources and couldn't care less. Said races have also been space faring Eons longer than humanity thus it shouldn't be a surprise to them that humanity has "so many worlds" since expansion is natural.

I don't believe Karen actually did her research before writing because a lot of the stuff ends up being hypocritical if not contradictory. she should have been limited to a novelette instead since her short and quick work was fantastic.
Hey Grey, I only seem to find you on threads like this. Also didn't she say that she did very low to no reading abt the verse?

  • 09.02.2012 7:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Well Halo is my main interest and there aren't many halo topics.

  • 09.02.2012 7:23 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: grey101
That statement just doesn't add up seeing as the covenant seriously ruin planets for their resources and couldn't care less. Said races have also been space faring Eons longer than humanity thus it shouldn't be a surprise to them that humanity has "so many worlds" since expansion is natural.

I don't believe Karen actually did her research before writing because a lot of the stuff ends up being hypocritical if not contradictory. she should have been limited to a novelette instead since her short and quick work was fantastic.


It's why I don't agree with her cold, 'journalistic' approach where she doesn't get into a series she's writing for. Someone who isn't a fan of Halo, or indeed any series, is not going to have that perspective the fan has of knowing and understanding what questions need to be addressed, brought up and answered.

  • 09.02.2012 7:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: grey101
That statement just doesn't add up seeing as the covenant seriously ruin planets for their resources and couldn't care less. Said races have also been space faring Eons longer than humanity thus it shouldn't be a surprise to them that humanity has "so many worlds" since expansion is natural.

I don't believe Karen actually did her research before writing because a lot of the stuff ends up being hypocritical if not contradictory. she should have been limited to a novelette instead since her short and quick work was fantastic.


It's why I don't agree with her cold, 'journalistic' approach where she doesn't get into a series she's writing for. Someone who isn't a fan of Halo, or indeed any series, is not going to have that perspective the fan has of knowing and understanding what questions need to be addressed, brought up and answered.


Which has been the issue the entire time not her writing style which i don't mind because it doesn't read any different to me. It is just what she is doing doesn't fit whatsoever regardless of what people try to say about it.

For the sake of peace i will omit glasslands out of this. But Halsey don't deserve nor should she be treated like a freaking slave, nor should Maggie be appointing heirs or still running ONI after retirement, and ONI shouldn't be in control of humanity.

It is just going downhill from this; what were "elite opoinions/viewpoints are now standard among them,ONI has way too much power, the halsey deal is just out of control and nonsensical. It just doesn't matter anymore hopefully another author will come along (not eric) and mend all of this.

  • 09.02.2012 7:33 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
ONI shouldn't be in control of humanity.


I think they've been manipulating humanity for much longer than it was formally established as a governmental office.

  • 09.02.2012 2:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
ONI shouldn't be in control of humanity.


I think they've been manipulating humanity for much longer than it was formally established as a governmental office.


There is a difference between guiding and controlling though and they just crossed that line. Is the assembly even involved anymore? That could be an "explanation" if they aren't.

  • 09.02.2012 2:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Sniffy66
Yeah I guess. Still kinda disappointing.


Disappointing? I called it a long time ago.

Trust brutes with elite engineering and gardens, they WILL -blam!- it up and get at the Elites. Elite intelligence has massively degraded if they thought otherwise.

Posted by: Quantam

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
So, Telcam is a man er Sangheili of honor, refusing to be discreet when confronting Arby?

he's more of a fool than I thought if he's going to take on my Arby. :P

Duh.

The lynch mob mentality suggests they aren't thinking straight anymore.


The fact Elites are described doing what Brutes, Jackals, and Grutes did to human prisoners is sickening and retarded to the most. A friend told me that somewhere, Elites using claws or teeth to fight is considered dishonorable to the highest degree in combat.

edit: Another thing that annoyed me was the prologue. Traviss's research was clearly lacking since she thinks Parangosky gets ANY say beyond "I'd recomend that guy" in picking the next leader of ONI. The Admiral board does that job. And her research on Halsey seems to be reading the posts of the idiots who think Halsey experimented on children for -blam!-s and giggles with a clown grin on her face.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 1:39 AM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 1:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: Quantam

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
So, Telcam is a man er Sangheili of honor, refusing to be discreet when confronting Arby?

he's more of a fool than I thought if he's going to take on my Arby. :P

Duh.

The lynch mob mentality suggests they aren't thinking straight anymore.


The fact Elites are described doing what Brutes, Jackals, and Grutes did to human prisoners is sickening and retarded to the most. A friend told me that somewhere, Elites using claws or teeth to fight is considered dishonorable to the highest degree in combat.
Whoa! Which page?

And I have to be signed into Amazon right?

Edit:

Well now, that'd explain their new appearance in Halo 4.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 2:12 AM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 1:43 AM PDT
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(To discuss Halo 4.)

I disagree, Ghost, Elites always lived under the falsehood of so called honor, the warriors that asked for a 1v1 straight up battle were the same guys who used active camo.

Also, the post war mentality has changed them, IMO. Look at WW2. When -blam!- occupied areas were liberated, local residents took out their vengeance on German nationals. The Brutes are also a lot more pissed as of recently, they have lost everything, and this is multiplied by the Brute's hatred.

It is quite clearly showing a change in character.

  • 09.03.2012 2:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Quantam
I disagree, Ghost, Elites always lived under the falsehood of so called honor, the warriors that asked for a 1v1 straight up battle were the same guys who used active camo.

Also, the post war mentality has changed them, IMO. Look at WW2. When -blam!- occupied areas were liberated, local residents took out their vengeance on German nationals. The Brutes are also a lot more pissed as of recently, they have lost everything, and this is multiplied by the Brute's hatred.

It is quite clearly showing a change in character.
True, they did have a radical code.

Yeah I don't have a big issue with the changes. I just want my Goldie back!

  • 09.03.2012 3:12 AM PDT

What I don't understand is why some members of the community think that the Sangheili and humanity are suddenly going to become 'best buds'.

The war raged for twenty seven years. We, as a species, don't just patch things up and move on that quickly.

Of course, I'd have loved for the UNSC and his Royal Arbiterness and his chums to have planned for peace and moved on. But that's just not going to happen. Not overnight anyway.

And if you had the same opportunity as ONI and the UNSC has now -- to rid the galaxy of the split-lip species as a whole -- to safeguard the future of humanity against future aggression you'd probably do the same.

Remember, the characters in Halo have no idea that there's an ancient threat looming on the horizon. They just see what's in front of them and behind them. And that 'thing' is opportunity.

Ideally, humanity and the Sangheili should join forces, rebuild and prepare for the worst. But they all think the worst is over. And it's time to mop up what's left.

As for Karen Traviss' approach to Halo, I appreciate her more political, personal approach to post-war life. It's more realistic.

But I do agree the Brutes shouldn't have been portrayed as simple, almost domesticated apes. They hate the elites. That wouldn't have changed overnight.

Unless the brutes were planning this all along.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 4:04 AM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 4:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: MaxRealflugel
What I don't understand is why some members of the community think that the Sangheili and humanity are suddenly going to become 'best buds'.

The war raged for twenty seven years. We, as a species, don't just patch things up and move on that quickly.

Of course, I'd have loved for the UNSC and his Royal Arbiterness and his chums to have planned for peace and moved on. But that's just not going to happen. Not overnight anyway.

And if you had the same opportunity as ONI and the UNSC has now -- to rid the galaxy of the split-lip species as a whole -- to safeguard the future of humanity against future aggression you'd probably do the same.


As for Karen Traviss' approach to Halo, I appreciate her more political, personal approach to post-war life. It's more realistic.



Have you read the "preview"? We aren't saying we should be best buds but the relationship should be formed seeing as halo 3 made it seem like it was in formation. The elites, an "honorable race" should be on our asses trying to make us understand that they didn't know the religion was BS and that they were acting under false pretenses. Instead the elites are complaining saying that if we weren't "so far spread" then they would have wiped us out and wouldn't be in their current situation.

The Elites have changed, somehow humanity got a forerunner dive to reverse engineer and they now understand forerunner tech but don't understand the covenant's, ONI now controls humanity. It's too much.


In "The Thursday War" ONI Defies Lord Hood himself by Helping the rebelling on Sanghelios instead of helping the Arbiter- Which We were trying to build relationships with. Which Leaves the Arbiter Locked up and in a dire situation While jul (The one that wants to wipe us out) Now has Fleets and is committed to finding the didact so he can wipe out humanity once and for all.


You guys support that? ONI is a rouge faction that needs to be put down at this point maggie is far worse than Halsey since she just started another war which more people will be killed.

How the Hell is maggie selecting who runs ONI when the board should be doing that? Why is maggie still acting if she just made Osman her successor? Why Is halsey being tried like a slave? How is Halsey getting criticized for not caring about her spartans when her request for more funding so she could get them better equipment and start another program was denied yet they had money for the infinity?

Think of all the hundreds of children that would have lived to fight another day if ONI gave Ackerson the funds to support them instead of supporting suicide solders. We could have had 2 or 3 fleets for what the infinity costs! Think of how different the battle of Earth would have been if the UNSC had the ships to defend the macs. The covenant wouldn't have gotten through if the infinity wasn't made.


I seriouesly think you are shortsighted if you don't read these novels and see that Maggie is the N@zi. Maggie Is the one that should be locked up in a cell. Instead we have her running around supporting 3-6 years old getting slaughtered, Building unnecessary ships because she wants to, Attacking Sanghelios "For a test run", And doing whatever the hell else she wants. Yet Halsey is bad and Halsey is the Devil that needs to be disposed of.


Karen tried saying they killed the kids that didn't want to be in the spartan program Despite the fact we have Grey team having the option to op out,The fact most of the kids wanted to be in, The fact Halsey even asked soren herself if he wanted to join the program and didn't coax him into it like ackerson did.
We have canon supporting that didn't happen yet according to The novel it did and that is bad. Yet Nobody has any issues with government sanctioned 3-6 year olds being taken from there "homes", being "pumped full of chemicals" and being sent in to die by a man that doesn't even know a hundred of their names.

It is Obviously better writing to try and demonize a human character that did feel bad about her actions but understood they were necessary. A Character that knew each and every one of her spartans. A Mother that took the time to teach them games and have fun with them.

Apparently Being a Mother to children that couldn't have parents because they had to save humanity on two fronts is bad, it is wrong. Yet being a Man who doesn't give a damn about anything other than results and a woman how just likes flaunting her power is good and ok.

  • 09.03.2012 6:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: Quantam

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
So, Telcam is a man er Sangheili of honor, refusing to be discreet when confronting Arby?

he's more of a fool than I thought if he's going to take on my Arby. :P

Duh.

The lynch mob mentality suggests they aren't thinking straight anymore.


The fact Elites are described doing what Brutes, Jackals, and Grutes did to human prisoners is sickening and retarded to the most. A friend told me that somewhere, Elites using claws or teeth to fight is considered dishonorable to the highest degree in combat.
Whoa! Which page?

And I have to be signed into Amazon right?

Edit:

Well now, that'd explain their new appearance in Halo 4.


Nope, it's in the section available for those aren't signed in.

Exact quote The brute's snarls were drowned by Sangheili roars. Phillips couldn't see what was happening, just the ripples of movement. It was a lynch mob. But Sangheili didn't use ropes. They were carnivores, and they fell on the brutes like a pack of dogs.


To grey: Actually, I took the line to be dealing with the Agents, not the children.

As in, if they approached the agent and gave him the assignment to do the kidnapping of the kid, and he respectfully went "I do not want to do this mission Ma'am." ONI just murdered him (either then and there, or later, either way it was known about apparently, or in the files).

  • 09.03.2012 7:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Well it doesn't add up regardless.

  • 09.03.2012 7:21 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
Well it doesn't add up regardless.


And retarded in either way.

The guys I'd see being assigned to do the kidnappings would have been the uttermost trusted, skilled agents. The dudes who can freaking keep a secret (Unless ONI just killed all those agents... sadly wouldn't surprise me at this time). But nope, they refused to do that mission and thus had to die...

Makes one wonder, if those ODSTs had refused in Glasslands, would Parangosky just pulled a pistol out and killed them?

  • 09.03.2012 7:36 AM PDT

I read the preview. Looking forward to more.

I think the Elites have their own interpretation of 'honour', which differs in some regards to ours. For instance, they use active camo. I think they have a great deal of personal pride but feel far from obligatd in trying to make humans understand why they did what they did. Maybe they feel shame. If they do, I doubt we'll ever see an apology -- a sign of weakness perhaps?

I don't recall any mention of the Didact, or Jul's determination to find him. Which page? Last I read, he was wandering around the interior of the Dyson sphere after falling ill, wearing an explosive harness. His wife, however, was on a ship with members of Kilo-Five.

Halsey IS the scapegoat. The patsy. There's no denying that. And Parangosky is clearly one bad apple -- poison to the core. But she sees an opportunity to teach an old bully new tricks. If I was oblivious of the few sangheili that truly did value honour and respect humanity, then I'd want to destroy them as well. But this isn't about 'us', it's about the characters.

And ackerman used orphans. And the SIII program was never made public. He could do what he wanted.

  • 09.03.2012 7:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I don't get the camo reference other than it is fine when an elite uses it and cowardly when a human does.

You can search for "The Didact" "Symbol" "forerunners" "Cortana" "Halo" Human" "requiem" "Kelekos" and pretty much read the full book.


As long as we see that Hasel isn't the devil i am fine. That doesn't make Ackerson's actions correct or any better.

  • 09.03.2012 8:23 AM PDT
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No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

I now have a craving for some ginger snap cookies dipped in mocha.

Oh the things I take from books.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 8:47 AM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 8:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I love how Karen wrote "Halseys Haters Club" Effing Brilliant Karen. So she Admits herself that is all the novel is about, I am going to make a bungie Group about this.

  • 09.03.2012 8:55 AM PDT

H3ITWP

What you all have to remember is that all of the contents of the book has to go through 343i prior to it being published. This is not just KT writting whatever she wants. It has to be vetted and approved.

  • 09.03.2012 9:00 AM PDT

Warlocks Bones

And I agree! I want to read about people's lively hood's over the game. X.B.L. is the greatest invention since board games! Which is about as cool as sliced bread!

  • 09.03.2012 9:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Red Sector A1A
What you all have to remember is that all of the contents of the book has to go through 343i prior to it being published. This is not just KT writting whatever she wants. It has to be vetted and approved.


Which is something i am having a hard time believing because of the sheer about on contradictions in the novel.

  • 09.03.2012 9:08 AM PDT