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  • Subject: Halo The Thursday War Preview on Amazon Potential Spoilers
Subject: Halo The Thursday War Preview on Amazon Potential Spoilers
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

It just doesn't add up. When you feel that pissed off have the enjoyment of feeling that shockwave flowing down your arm you are sending somebody to the hospital. If not they are going to have far more issues than a broken nose, like a displaced eyeball for instance.

I don't see how lucy's enraged punch only broke hasleys nose yet Tom can calmly rip apart titanium doors with ease.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 12:38 PM PDT


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: Wolverfrog
This Jiralhanae isn't military.[/quote]
All Jiralhanae are "military", they are a barbaric and primal society.

[/quote]He might not work out; he could have little muscle or even be terminally ill for all we know.

Haha! Are you serious? Brutes don't work out! They are naturally strong and muscular, the same as gorillas. You don't see Silverbacks doing chin-ups to work on their guns.


If they did, they'd be a lot stronger. Muscle tearing/repairing/strengthening isn't a trait exclusive to humanity. Of course the Brutes in military work out, as would the Sangheili and humans. I'm not doubting a natural Jiralhanae is stronger than a natural Sangheili. I'm saying a Jiralhanae who doesn't work out would be weaker than two Sangheili who keep their bodies at peak fitness.

And about the Lucy thing, all I'll say is that the only explanation is that she didn't put all her weight behind the punch. Or that Halsey got lucky and managed to roll with the punch in just the right way.

This is about TTW, anyway. We're getting a bit off-track here.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 12:41 PM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 12:39 PM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: grey101
I am so confused. I thought lucy punched hasley and it was described that she was shaking with anger and that a shockwave rolled down her arm. which you normally get when you are trying to break the persons face.


Sorry, I meant Lucy; I always get those two mixed up. I don't know how many times you've broken a person's face, so I won't challenge your expertise there. But to be honest, you can punch anything and it'll send a tremor down your arm that you'll feel. With Lucy's heightened senses, she'd feel it even stronger.

I personally never was happy with the assertion that S3s are equal to S2s. I know Reach depicts them in that way, but we know how many issues that game has. I'm not doubting an S3 is stronger than a human, but I don't think they're as strong as an S2. Everything in Glasslands supported that.


They aren't equal in every way. A Spartan 2 with experiance and more time on his belt will be stronger/faster/more deadlier. However, the difference is not so great that it means a strong punch from an S3 isn't fatal. The S3's can wear MJOLNIR without issue.

As for the brute... A civilian brute who doesn't 'work out' much would get slaughtered in their culture. They come across very much as "If you can't even in the least defend yourself, you will get killed by our enemies, or maybe even us."

  • 09.03.2012 12:42 PM PDT

Sorry, but you're both missing the point entirely with Lucy.

The focus of her outburst wasn't with the punch, it was with her first words for seven years. It was a shock to the system.

  • 09.03.2012 12:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I honestly don't think the brutes work out by lifting weights rather than beating the crap out of each other. From them fighting is a way of life. I didn't want to say anything because i didn't want some argument to start out or whatever but i don't believe two elites "at their peak fitness" is a confirmed statement. nor do i believe that they would still amount to a brute. If these were two Zealots or councilmembers then i could full agree frog. I don't see two random elites being the best of the best.

  • 09.03.2012 12:44 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien


Posted by: Wolverfrog
He might not work out; he could have little muscle or even be terminally ill for all we know.

You can "what if" all day. Just because it isn't explicitly detailed doesn't mean you are free to fill that void with whatever possibilities you want to. There "could be" a lot of reasons for what happened, there are also a lot of reasons why what happened doesn't make sense. And those reasons are concrete as opposed to the hypotheticals you are bringing to the table.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 12:45 PM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 12:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the brute... A civilian brute who doesn't 'work out' much would get slaughtered in their culture. They come across very much as "If you can't even in the least defend yourself, you will get killed by our enemies, or maybe even us."


It's difficult because before this, we've only ever seen Jiralhanae who work in the military and so we've only ever seen military culture. Imagine if an external force came across humanity, and only ever encountered our armies. They might be surprised when they see the civilian population and see obesity and such. It's a whole different world, different pressures and expectations.

If that doesn't fly for you, then note the text does say the Jiralhanae is struggling. It doesn't say how well the Sangheili are suppressing him - it could be the Sangheili are losing their grip on the Jiralhanae, but before it can retaliate the lynch mob descends and any chance it stood flew out the window.

It's too brief a scene to warrant such discussion, clearly written to convey Sangheili anger at the Jiralhanae, even those that may not have been involved.

  • 09.03.2012 12:47 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: MaxRealflugel
Sorry, but you're both missing the point entirely with Lucy.

The focus of her outburst wasn't with the punch, it was with her first words for seven years. It was a shock to the system.

I didn't miss that. But it was ruined for me by the circumstances. If Traviss wanted to have Lucy freak out without damaging Halsey she could have simply changed the punch to a push or even a swing that was interrupted by one of the other Spartans. The scene wouldn't have been changed and the jarring effect of having the unrealistic punch wouldn't have been there.

  • 09.03.2012 12:47 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I don't see two random elites being the best of the best.


The text says they're troopers. I read that as them being military, and thus in shape. It's not worth starting an argument about - it's ambiguous, and a very short scene. Regardless of whether or not you think the Sangheili could have restrained the Jiralhanae is moot - they did, and the Jiralhanae died despite his strugglings. This text is canon, and so two Sangheili restraining one Jiralhanae is also canon. There are things I wish weren't canon that are, but I've accepted that my personal opinions don't matter - I might as well get mad at gravity when I fall over.

And to the guy above, well - a 'what if' is a more likely explanation than sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming 'No! That didn't happen!' The fact is that it does happen, and it's not a plothole if there's any possible explanation - and as it happens, there are a few.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 12:52 PM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 12:49 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: MaxRealflugel
What I don't understand is why some members of the community think that the Sangheili and humanity are suddenly going to become 'best buds'.

The war raged for twenty seven years. We, as a species, don't just patch things up and move on that quickly.

Of course, I'd have loved for the UNSC and his Royal Arbiterness and his chums to have planned for peace and moved on. But that's just not going to happen. Not overnight anyway.

No one says that. Well, maybe someone does, but no one in this thread has implied it. I am beginning to think there is is some amount of denial in people who like this type of fiction when there is almost consistent use of this strawman fallacy; like dodging the issue with a switch and bait. It's probably also a false dilemma. Criticizing the approach KT has taken in these novels isn't arguing for idealism. I really, really, really wish people would get this, above everything else, first.

Reading past this sentence is simply pointless if you don't.

The sole driving factor behind the Sangheili's hatred for Humanity isn't the fact that they had just fought a war, it's down to this idea of Humanity being this "over-colonizing, all-consuming, relentlessly expanding" species that is going to wipe out the Sangheili just so that they can take Sanghelios for themselves.

The worst excuse for another war I have ever read, doubly so because it tells me that the writers aren't writing this naturally, they are forcing a situation out of it that makes everything from the past 2 games pointless, and meaningless, but mostly just pointless. In the process, they are turning the Sangheili into some silly little Mary Suetopia. It was never brought up in any past lore; this over colonization thing is a forced issue, and it is replacing all the issues that could be focused on from the actual war. Same with the "Humans = liars" thing as well. Not only that, but they are riddled with plot holes (How do the Sangheili know all this about Humanity to know that everything they do is clandestine?) and retcons, all of which I could go into various details with. (Spec-Ops and Ossoonas represent a concept in warfare entirely different to what KT seems to think the Sangheili view it as; I.e. charging it head on) Altering the Sangheili to the typical warrior race trope of judging a person by their prowess was also a lame move, for reason that should be patently obvious to anyone who knows something about the Grunt Rebellion, and who has heard of CftU. (Or I could break out the ol' encyclopeadia that explicitly states that they judged people for their convictions, their fortitude and their tenacity)

These books don't deal with the fallout of the Human-Covenant war and about how Humanity and the Sangheili might go about interacting with each other in that time. They deal with the authors gripes about Humanity, and about how 343i can have the Elites as enemies again for Halo 4.

And if you had the same opportunity as ONI and the UNSC has now -- to rid the galaxy of the split-lip species as a whole -- to safeguard the future of humanity against future aggression you'd probably do the same.
Sure. The issue is though that it is based on guess work; if's, maybe's and but's. According to the Thursday War, no one knew anything about Sanghelios until Hood got there in Glasslands. One still wonders how ONI knew a civil war would weaken the Elites to the degree necessary for them to finish them off when they can't even know how large the Elite's military is post-Halo 3. A civil war may not have even occurred, with Arbiter just stepping down to the will of his people; all because ONI reinforced the Servants in the first place to put them in a position where they could launch such an assault. Anything to get the ol' conflict ball rolling again I guess.

Remember, the characters in Halo have no idea that there's an ancient threat looming on the horizon. They just see what's in front of them and behind them. And that 'thing' is opportunity.

Ideally, humanity and the Sangheili should join forces, rebuild and prepare for the worst. But they all think the worst is over. And it's time to mop up what's left.

That story was already done. It was called Halo 3.

  • 09.03.2012 1:09 PM PDT


Posted by: MaxRealflugel
What I don't understand is why some members of the community think that the Sangheili and humanity are suddenly going to become 'best buds'.

The war raged for twenty seven years. We, as a species, don't just patch things up and move on that quickly.

Of course, I'd have loved for the UNSC and his Royal Arbiterness and his chums to have planned for peace and moved on. But that's just not going to happen. Not overnight anyway.

And if you had the same opportunity as ONI and the UNSC has now -- to rid the galaxy of the split-lip species as a whole -- to safeguard the future of humanity against future aggression you'd probably do the same.

Remember, the characters in Halo have no idea that there's an ancient threat looming on the horizon. They just see what's in front of them and behind them. And that 'thing' is opportunity.

Ideally, humanity and the Sangheili should join forces, rebuild and prepare for the worst. But they all think the worst is over. And it's time to mop up what's left.

As for Karen Traviss' approach to Halo, I appreciate her more political, personal approach to post-war life. It's more realistic.

But I do agree the Brutes shouldn't have been portrayed as simple, almost domesticated apes. They hate the elites. That wouldn't have changed overnight.

Unless the brutes were planning this all along.


I've never seen anyone saying that Humans and Elites would become the bestest of best friends...however what 343i has approved for Traviss' trilogy is flying in the face of everything Bungie was doing. The Elites did not hate humanity or view them as vermin at all, not by the time of Halo 2/3 anyway. Bungie almost went out of their way after Halo 2 to show that the Elites had a huge amount of respect for Humanity and approval of them. Bungie even had a "growing amount of human sympathizers amongst the Sangheili youth" to quote the bio for N'tho 'Sraom the Elite third player plays as in Halo 3 over Xbox Live or system link. The majority of the Elites should be on the Arbiter's side in wanting to pursue and actual peace treaty and possible alliance with the UNSC and humanity, not looking to end hostilities so they can rearm and reorganize in order to battle humanity again. I have no problem with the existence of the Servants of Abiding Truth or the likes of Jul who do want to kill humans again (that sort of faction makes things a little more interesting), my issue is how Traviss portrayed every single Elite character but the Arbiter holding this point of view when it just isn't true at all.

Now, as for the UNSC, they have nothing at all to do with ONI's plan of genocide for the Elites, the UNSC/UEG (IE the actual proper and official government) wants peace with the Elites and isn't out for blood, that's ONI's deal. They're actively trying to subvert the goals of Hood and the government. The actual government of humanity is not trying to exterminate or start another war with the Elites, they're after an official peace treaty between UNSC and Sangheili. There is no reason, for UNSC or ONI, to be out for the Sangheili's blood and seeking to weaken them or drive them to extinction except for petty revenge. The Elites are not looking for more war with humans or to continue the Covenant genocide against them at all.

  • 09.03.2012 1:24 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: OrderedComa
The Elites did not hate humanity or view them as vermin at all, not by the time of Halo 2/3 anyway.

Well some did, but it is 343i's constant aggrandization and focus upon these masochistic elements that I find really irritating and at worst puts me off of their "Halo".

  • 09.03.2012 1:35 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: OrderedComa
The Elites did not hate humanity or view them as vermin at all, not by the time of Halo 2/3 anyway.

Well some did, but it is 343i's constant aggrandization and focus upon these masochistic elements that I find really irritating and at worst puts me off of their "Halo".


Right, which is why I said there's nothing inherently wrong with Elite characters like Jul or the Servants of Abiding Truth, but yeah, basically I was saying that it would seem to me that the majority don't bear any particular ill-will for humans in general I won't say that they all like humanity, but the majority sure don't hate humanity or the UNSC...but yeah, that's my issue with 343i, is that they seem to be doing a 180 on Elite characterization and undoing everything Bungie did to try and improve their characters >_>

  • 09.03.2012 2:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: MaxRealflugel
What I don't understand is why some members of the community think that the Sangheili and humanity are suddenly going to become 'best buds'.

The war raged for twenty seven years. We, as a species, don't just patch things up and move on that quickly.

Of course, I'd have loved for the UNSC and his Royal Arbiterness and his chums to have planned for peace and moved on. But that's just not going to happen. Not overnight anyway.

No one says that. Well, maybe someone does, but no one in this thread has implied it. I am beginning to think there is is some amount of denial in people who like this type of fiction when there is almost consistent use of this strawman fallacy; like dodging the issue with a switch and bait. It's probably also a false dilemma. Criticizing the approach KT has taken in these novels isn't arguing for idealism. I really, really, really wish people would get this, above everything else, first.

Reading past this sentence is simply pointless if you don't.

The sole driving factor behind the Sangheili's hatred for Humanity isn't the fact that they had just fought a war, it's down to this idea of Humanity being this "over-colonizing, all-consuming, relentlessly expanding" species that is going to wipe out the Sangheili just so that they can take Sanghelios for themselves.

The worst excuse for another war I have ever read, doubly so because it tells me that the writers aren't writing this naturally, they are forcing a situation out of it that makes everything from the past 2 games pointless, and meaningless, but mostly just pointless. In the process, they are turning the Sangheili into some silly little Mary Suetopia. It was never brought up in any past lore; this over colonization thing is a forced issue, and it is replacing all the issues that could be focused on from the actual war. Same with the "Humans = liars" thing as well. Not only that, but they are riddled with plot holes (How do the Sangheili know all this about Humanity to know that everything they do is clandestine?) and retcons, all of which I could go into various details with. (Spec-Ops and Ossoonas represent a concept in warfare entirely different to what KT seems to think the Sangheili view it as; I.e. charging it head on) Altering the Sangheili to the typical warrior race trope of judging a person by their prowess was also a lame move, for reason that should be patently obvious to anyone who knows something about the Grunt Rebellion, and who has heard of CftU. (Or I could break out the ol' encyclopeadia that explicitly states that they judged people for their convictions, their fortitude and their tenacity)

These books don't deal with the fallout of the Human-Covenant war and about how Humanity and the Sangheili might go about interacting with each other in that time. They deal with the authors gripes about Humanity, and about how 343i can have the Elites as enemies again for Halo 4.

And if you had the same opportunity as ONI and the UNSC has now -- to rid the galaxy of the split-lip species as a whole -- to safeguard the future of humanity against future aggression you'd probably do the same.
Sure. The issue is though that it is based on guess work; if's, maybe's and but's. According to the Thursday War, no one knew anything about Sanghelios until Hood got there in Glasslands. One still wonders how ONI knew a civil war would weaken the Elites to the degree necessary for them to finish them off when they can't even know how large the Elite's military is post-Halo 3. A civil war may not have even occurred, with Arbiter just stepping down to the will of his people; all because ONI reinforced the Servants in the first place to put them in a position where they could launch such an assault. Anything to get the ol' conflict ball rolling again I guess.

Remember, the characters in Halo have no idea that there's an ancient threat looming on the horizon. They just see what's in front of them and behind them. And that 'thing' is opportunity.

Ideally, humanity and the Sangheili should join forces, rebuild and prepare for the worst. But they all think the worst is over. And it's time to mop up what's left.

That story was already done. It was called Halo 3.


This a billion times.

  • 09.03.2012 2:33 PM PDT

I wonder what R'tas 'Vadum is up to. Have we had any mention of him since the end of Halo 3? I always thought he'd become the Sangheili leader after the trilogy, or at the very least their Supreme Commander.

All it seems to be is 'Arbiter this, Arbiter that.' I miss half-jaw.

  • 09.03.2012 3:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

He isn't brought up whatsoever :/ -_-

  • 09.03.2012 3:44 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

If they give some lame excuse for his absence, like being killed offscreen, I will be disappointed. If anyone would back up Arby, it would be R'tas. Plus, being one of the highest ranking elites left and having a fleet backing you up is sure to lend weight to your words.

  • 09.03.2012 3:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Xd00999
If they give some lame excuse for his absence, like being killed offscreen, I will be disappointed. If anyone would back up Arby, it would be R'tas.


Which is why he isn't around because he would not stand for such BS.

  • 09.03.2012 3:53 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I don't trust 343i with his character anyway, so I'm actually fine with not seeing him.

  • 09.03.2012 3:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
I don't trust 343i with his character anyway, so I'm actually fine with not seeing him.


I feel like they would have him turn on the arby :(

  • 09.03.2012 4:00 PM PDT

Maybe he's absent for a reason. I don't think we'll see Thel in H4, but I wouldn't be surprised if R'tas turns up with a fleet of his own and takes on the Storm.

It could explain why Thel seems to be lacking in supporters; they've gone with R'tas on a mission of some kind, since he wouldn't trust anyone else.

That's just me being hopeful. Hopefully he won't get Kal Reegar'd.

  • 09.03.2012 4:05 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

That would be a good explanation. R'tas took most of the men to chase rogue Covenants but Arby stayed behind to build support. Fits the plot well, explains lack of support, and explains his absence. Probably won't go with it, though.

  • 09.03.2012 4:11 PM PDT

Andrew Del Rio doesn't seem to trust or even like Parangosky.

I like him already.

  • 09.03.2012 6:33 PM PDT

My YouTube Channel
Bungiepedia Page

"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

...I'm late to the party.

Well, I like what I've read so far.

As for the Brute that's allegedly torn apart by an angry mob of Sangheili, I think it needs to be kept in mind that it was a laborer. Sure, all Brutes are hulking masses of mindless rage and aggression, but Elites aren't all that far off.

If I recall correctly, it was brought forward by two Sangheili soldier. While I personally think an average Brute would overpower an average Elite in a fight, the odds are probably in the Elites' favor with two on one.

...and then, you know, the Brute was a lowly laborer.

[Edited on 09.03.2012 8:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.03.2012 8:35 PM PDT


Posted by: Primo84
...I'm late to the party.

Well, I like what I've read so far.

As for the Brute that's allegedly torn apart by an angry mob of Sangheili, I think it needs to be kept in mind that it was a laborer. Sure, all Brutes are hulking masses of mindless rage and aggression, but Elites aren't all that far off.

If I recall correctly, it was brought forward by two Sangheili soldier. While I personally think an average Brute would overpower an average Elite in a fight, the odds are probably in the Elites' favor with two on one.

...and then, you know, the Brute was a lowly laborer.


Probably one of the few things I will agree with you on on the subject of the three Karen Traviss Halo novels :P I don't see any problem with the Brute being restrained by two Elites either, a typical Brute may be stronger than typical Elites in general, but this was two on one, and as you said they were described as soldiers, and this was a Brute laborer...not exactly the same sort of class as someone like Tartarus who was a full time warrior. And no description of whether it was hard for the two Elites restraining it or not, just that they were dragging a Brute forward/out...and then like immediately after that the Brute is set on by the mob.

So yeah, no reason to complain about this aspect...others though, like that whole introduction or whatever with Parangosky, or some of the stuff with the ODSTs and that one spy for Parangosky they were with (seriously? Why the -blam!- does he even know the intimate details of the sodding Spartan II Program??? O_o da hell?!?).

  • 09.03.2012 9:23 PM PDT