Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Weapon respawns for Halo3?
  • Subject: Weapon respawns for Halo3?
Subject: Weapon respawns for Halo3?

Death by figure skater.

I'm curious to know if the philosophy behind weapon respawns will hold the same for Halo3 as is does for Halo2. The philosophy being, some weapons will respawn while others will not respawn when held. I never could understand the reasoning behind only one sniper respawning on Ascension and the decision making process that gave birth to that idea, and other weapon respawn idiosyncracies.

Is the person/persons resposible for the Halo2 weapon respawn philosophy still employed at Bungie, and if so, are his philosophies still embraced with regard to weapon respawns for Halo3?

Perhaps I'm not smart enough to understand the weapon respawn philosophy for Halo2. Please shed some light on it so I may attempt to understand how Halo3's weapon spawn system may work.

By the way, I love Halo2 with all my heart...this is not bashing Halo2, I just am curious as to what their approach may be with weapon spawns for Halo3.

Thank you.

[Edited on 6/22/2006]

  • 06.22.2006 8:33 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I can tell you why. I still play Halo CE on XBC. I often run into people using third party devices to time weapon spawns such as the rocket launcher. Nothing is more frustrating when you're trying to play a fair game and someone takes advantage of the game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage. Just look at all the problems people have with Halo 2 and all of it's glitches.

I still think they could have respawning weapons for Halo 3....just make the respawn time random. A sniper could respawn at 2:14 and the next time at 1:38...and so on. That way people who aren't all that keen on playing a fair game can't time the weapons.

  • 06.22.2006 8:37 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

A Guide to Networking, Matchmaking, and Host in Halo (HBO mirror)

Bungie Friends and Family invitee, and sender of "random emails" about networking.

How is it unfair precisely? How is it taking advantage of the game? All you're doing is timing something. There's no exploit, and anyone can do it.


A similar thing occurs in Halo 2 at high levels of play, except ONLY THE TEAM THAT PICKS THE WEAPON UP CAN DO IT. So by your logic, it's even worse in Halo 2... as well as even more unfair, and taking advantage of the game even more so than in CE?

Personally, I think the CE system needs to be brought back. The power weapon system allows one team to retain control of the weapons, and hole up in a very good spot without having to struggle to reclaim the respawning weapon every minute or so. And when they need to get more ammo, they can relinquish the weapon in question at their leisure when convinient,.

Allowing one team to control the spawns is a very flawed system.

  • 06.22.2006 8:52 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: One One Seven
How is it unfair precisely? How is it taking advantage of the game? All you're doing is timing something. There's no exploit, and anyone can do it.


A similar thing occurs in Halo 2 at high levels of play, except ONLY THE TEAM THAT PICKS THE WEAPON UP CAN DO IT. So by your logic, it's even worse in Halo 2... as well as even more unfair, and taking advantage of the game even more so than in CE?

Personally, I think the CE system needs to be brought back. The power weapon system allows one team to retain control of the weapons, and hole up in a very good spot without having to struggle to reclaim the respawning weapon every minute or so. And when they need to get more ammo, they can relinquish the weapon in question at their leisure when convinient,.

Allowing one team to control the spawns is a very flawed system.


Let's be honest...if you are a person that uses a third party device to time weapon and power up spawns, there is nothing I can say or do to convice you that it is wrong. Just look at these forums....superjumpers defend superjumping as if it's a personal attack on them. The people that used the dummying glitch did the same thing. You either know something is wrong in your heart, or you don't. You can't use things such as this in tournament play, yet they try to come off as being "pros".

If people want to use things such as timers...so be it. They should tell the team they are getting ready to play that they will be using them. That way the other team knows they can use them also, or if they choose not to use a timer, they can go find another game with someone who won't use them. You want to use timers? Then use it against other teams using timers. Don't bring it into a normal game. It's like sneaking a calculator into a math test. You'll ace the test, but it doesn't say much about your abilities with math.

A team playing by normal rules simply can't compete with people that know exactly when the weapons and power ups are coming. I've played teams that would have people jumping onto the rocket a moment before it spawned. They would start shooting to get the power ups in Rat Race BEFORE the power up appeared. You want to use timers? Fine, just let the other team know you are using them so they can decide if they want to play a timed game or not.

[Edited on 6/22/2006]

  • 06.22.2006 9:16 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

hello!

  • 06.22.2006 9:25 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: HM Slayer
Posted by: One One Seven
How is it unfair precisely? How is it taking advantage of the game? All you're doing is timing something. There's no exploit, and anyone can do it.


A similar thing occurs in Halo 2 at high levels of play, except ONLY THE TEAM THAT PICKS THE WEAPON UP CAN DO IT. So by your logic, it's even worse in Halo 2... as well as even more unfair, and taking advantage of the game even more so than in CE?

Personally, I think the CE system needs to be brought back. The power weapon system allows one team to retain control of the weapons, and hole up in a very good spot without having to struggle to reclaim the respawning weapon every minute or so. And when they need to get more ammo, they can relinquish the weapon in question at their leisure when convinient,.

Allowing one team to control the spawns is a very flawed system.


Let's be honest...if you are a person that uses a third party device to time weapon and power up spawns, there is nothing I can say or do to convice you that it is wrong. Just look at these forums....superjumpers defend superjumping as if it's a personal attack on them. The people that used the dummying glitch did the same thing. You either know something is wrong in your heart, or you don't. You can't use things such as this in tournament play, yet they try to come off as being "pros".

If people want to use things such as timers...so be it. They should tell the team they are getting ready to play that they will be using them. That way the other team knows they can use them also, or if they choose not to use a timer, they can go find another game with someone who won't use them. You want to use timers? Then use it against other teams using timers. Don't bring it into a normal game. It's like sneaking a calculator into a math test. You'll ace the test, but it doesn't say much about your abilities with math.

A team playing by normal rules simply can't compete with people that know exactly when the weapons and power ups are coming. I've played teams that would have people jumping onto the rocket a moment before it spawned. They would start shooting to get the power ups in Rat Race BEFORE the power up appeared. You want to use timers? Fine, just let the other team know you are using them so they can decide if they want to play a timed game or not.


? Dummying Glitch?

  • 06.22.2006 9:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

By "third party device" do you mean a watch?


Thats like saying someone using third party devices like glasses gain an unfair visual advantage over people that don't, or people sitting in third party devices known as "chairs" gain a comfort advantage over people standing. Timing weapon respawns is nothing like superjumps or dummy glitch, its experience and resource managment at its best. Knowing when and where a powerful item can be? And doing it without altering the game in any way, shape or form, using only the information provided equally to all players? Seems like intelligent gameplay to me.


But hey, you know what, your right. If you don't want to time weapon respawns, nobodys forcing you. Keep in mind though, don't bother asking good players if they're using timers (they probably are).

  • 06.22.2006 9:56 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

In 2, only one team knows exactly when the power up is going to respawn. The team that get's it. And you don't need a watch with 2, the handy gameclock on your screen works quite well as a timer.

But really, I'd just like to know if they are staying with the same WEAPON not respawning when held philosophy...and the logic behind this philosophy, for Halo3. I never could understand this philosophy and the reasoning behind it. It would be nice if they shed some light on why they went this route. Then I'd have an idea if this philosophy will remain for Halo3.

[Edited on 6/22/2006]

  • 06.22.2006 10:10 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Sgt_Meyer
By "third party device" do you mean a watch?


Thats like saying someone using third party devices like glasses gain an unfair visual advantage over people that don't, or people sitting in third party devices known as "chairs" gain a comfort advantage over people standing. Timing weapon respawns is nothing like superjumps or dummy glitch, its experience and resource managment at its best. Knowing when and where a powerful item can be? And doing it without altering the game in any way, shape or form, using only the information provided equally to all players? Seems like intelligent gameplay to me.


But hey, you know what, your right. If you don't want to time weapon respawns, nobodys forcing you. Keep in mind though, don't bother asking good players if they're using timers (they probably are).


Many people that use timers use a program on a PDA.

And how in the world does using timers equate with being a good player? You can't use them during a tournament. If you sneak a calculator into math class, does that mean you are good at math? What it tells me is that that person needs a crutch because they don't have the skills to go without it. If a person is that good, they can win without timing. It's called skill. Can you really be proud of your win when you've used a timer to know when all the spawns are? Does it feel as if you've accomplished something?

  • 06.22.2006 10:18 AM PDT

Death by figure skater.

Posted by: HM Slayer
Posted by: Sgt_Meyer
By "third party device" do you mean a watch?


Thats like saying someone using third party devices like glasses gain an unfair visual advantage over people that don't, or people sitting in third party devices known as "chairs" gain a comfort advantage over people standing. Timing weapon respawns is nothing like superjumps or dummy glitch, its experience and resource managment at its best. Knowing when and where a powerful item can be? And doing it without altering the game in any way, shape or form, using only the information provided equally to all players? Seems like intelligent gameplay to me.


But hey, you know what, your right. If you don't want to time weapon respawns, nobodys forcing you. Keep in mind though, don't bother asking good players if they're using timers (they probably are).


Many people that use timers use a program on a PDA.

And how in the world does using timers equate with being a good player? You can't use them during a tournament. If you sneak a calculator into math class, does that mean you are good at math? What it tells me is that that person needs a crutch because they don't have the skills to go without it. If a person is that good, they can win without timing. It's called skill. Can you really be proud of your win when you've used a timer to know when all the spawns are? Does it feel as if you've accomplished something?


Actually, I'm pretty sure you can or could use them in a tournament. Pros were strapping talking timers to their controllers in the CE days.

Look, there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing the rules of the respawn system and timing them accordingly. The game has a set of respawns, know them and play well. I don't see the problem.

It's like not taking advantage of all the rules in golf. I'm an avid golfer. You can turn some disadvantages in golf to advantages by simply mastering the rules. I've seen many an uneducated golfer take bad drops because they don't perfectly know the rules of the game. Why wouldn't you time a respawn...it's part of the game...why not take advantage of knowing the rules? It's silly not to.

[Edited on 6/22/2006]

  • 06.22.2006 10:32 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

This is going to sound hostile, but I'm not trying to make it so...


Which tournaments specifically? I'm presuming you mean MLG tournaments, which are not H2's only competitive events, though they are the most popular. Its not as if there is an MLB, NFL, or NBA of Halo, I played a tournament at a kids house once where he said "no screen looking". I played another event at my college where enough players complained about the PP/BR combo that the organizer said "don't use the combo". That doesn't make screen looking and the combo illegal in every game of H2 ever. Tournament organizers are free to establish any rules they like, and in the case of MLG, much of the comepetitive community follows those rules, but they are not official Halo rules. Were I to enter an MLG event with such equipment, I would be cheating. But the XBLive Terms of Use, and the H2 instructional manual made no claims about the legality of timers.

The calculator in math class is a poor example, the calculator is capable of doing the calculations for you. Game timers don't control your character or play the game for you. They give you an advantage that you could potentially translate into a win. Math test takers are still free to use their fingers to count, or to use their erasers to correct mistakes.

Good players use any legal advantage they need in order to win. That is not to say that all good players use timers, but some feel timers are useful, and so they use them. I would assume really talented/experienced players don't need a timer, because they have memorized the weapon respawn times, and trained themselves to keep track of those times while playing. I don't use a timer because I'm just not at the level of gameplay that using one would help me signficantly. But I don't feel I've been cheated if someone exhibits better weaponspawn control than me.

Can I really be proud of my win when I've used a timer to know when all the spawns are? Sure, competition is all about the Win. As long as I don't violate any of the existing gameplay rules. Preventing me from using a device like a timer is like preventing someone from playing on their 1080p TV because they have better resolution and can see better.


I apologize, this post sounds really contrary. I'm not meaning to be a dick, but its difficult to be polite and express a dissenting opinion.

  • 06.22.2006 11:42 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Looking back at the point of the thread, I liked Halo CE's weapon respawn better. It made it difficult to get the sniper rifle if the other team was intent to hold it, but it prevented teams from simply controlling the spawns and continue getting more ammo. One team can hold the sniper or the rocket for as long as they like, but they will eventually run out of ammunition.

  • 06.22.2006 11:45 AM PDT